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Inverse Icarus posted:Get beat up Oh man now that I think about it? This could be a really amazing opportunity to just let your party cut loose and beat the hell out of one another. As long as they're in a semi-controlled environment, it offers the opportunity to do something you wouldn't ordinarily do as a party. Doesn't Razmir have casters on staff too? This could actually end as a straight up interparty throwdown without consequences. Once somebody does any real nonlethal damage the other cultists could easily pull him aside and be like "um excuse me wtf are you doing, I know you're way excited to exalt Razmir through battle but that was just uncalled for man." OK I change my mind, your idea owns as-is.
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Apr 22, 2012 01:45
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I started my first Pathfinder Society campaign today. I can say without doubt that I'm probably the worst person to play Tabletop. I'm playing a rogue. First thing I did? Pickpocket a team member. After that, things went downhill. Overused knowledge dungeoneering for every little thing, not paying attention to movement, etc. The GM flat-out told me if I hosed up again, he'd throw me out of the campaign. I feel dumb. Incidentally, is there a free download for the Pathfinder Society guide?
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Apr 22, 2012 07:45
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Benny the Snake posted:Incidentally, is there a free download for the Pathfinder Society guide? http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/v5748btpy84k4
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Apr 22, 2012 08:31
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Benny the Snake posted:I started my first Pathfinder Society campaign today. I can say without doubt that I'm probably the worst person to play Tabletop. The solution is obvious. Stop being an rear end in a top hat and stop abusing skill checks.
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Apr 22, 2012 12:27
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Benny the Snake posted:I started my first Pathfinder Society campaign today. I can say without doubt that I'm probably the worst person to play Tabletop. Rule 0: The GM makes all the rules. Don't like any ruling? See this rule! Rule 0.5: Don't be a dick to your fellow party members. No pickpocketing, no backstabbing, and no cockblocking the bard (unless it's really funny).
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Apr 22, 2012 12:45
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CAPSLOCKGIRL posted:The solution is obvious. Stop being an rear end in a top hat and stop abusing skill checks. 
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Apr 22, 2012 12:45
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Benny the Snake posted:I started my first Pathfinder Society campaign today. I can say without doubt that I'm probably the worst person to play Tabletop. Everyone does this their first time. Give the loot back, say it was a joke, and be at least a grudging team player. You can totally be a sleazy jerk thief, but don't steal from the party. Its really, really hard to keep "your character stole from me" out of character knowledge, and the 30 silver from your party's paladin isn't going to help when nobody trusts anything you do. You're also way lucky, the last time I saw someone pull that stunt was in 3.0, when a new player stole from the party's psionic leap-based psychic warrior. They caught him, grappled, leapt into the mesosphere, and dropped him. 
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Apr 22, 2012 18:00
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EscortMission posted:You can totally be a sleazy jerk thief, but don't steal from the party. There's a phrase, honor amongst thieves. It means that even thieves have a code, and that code is generally no stealing from/fighting each other until the job is done. Everyone recognizes the need for people working together to trust each other and not be at each others throats, and when something turns up missing they're always going to think of the guy who can pick pockets first. It's not a hard concept to understand, and no one "doing what they're character would do" would steal from someone they're working with.
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Apr 22, 2012 19:28
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TheAnomaly posted:There's a phrase, honor amongst thieves. It means that even thieves have a code, and that code is generally no stealing from/fighting each other until the job is done. Everyone recognizes the need for people working together to trust each other and not be at each others throats, and when something turns up missing they're always going to think of the guy who can pick pockets first. It's not a hard concept to understand, and no one "doing what they're character would do" would steal from someone they're working with. Not unless you want to play that guy who never gets to be a high-level thief because he's such an rear end in a top hat that his party murders him in the early stages of his career.
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Apr 22, 2012 19:44
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You are free to steal from your party members just like they're free to beat you to death, or turn you in to a city guard for stealing. In practice it's slightly annoying but possibly fun/funny the first time, and then really annoying every subsequent time. For a group of new people you might be able to get away with it for a while, but seasoned players will just get pissed off, like the people in this thread have. If you're more... particular about what you steal, it could be more fun to play out. If you're literally rolling all day every day and stealing 30 sp from the Paladin, no one is having any fun. If the party finds some artifact worth some serious money and it goes missing, it's at least slightly interesting. Especially if you tell the DM that you're doing this secretly, and the party doesn't "notice" until someone says they look for the item, and the DM informs them that it's missing. But in general, follow Wil Wheaton's advice: 
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Apr 22, 2012 19:57
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TheAnomaly posted:"doing what they're character would do" "That's what my character would do" is a poo poo-rear end excuse anyway. You know, it's really too bad you were forced to play an rear end in a top hat.
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Apr 22, 2012 20:54
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I don't straight up steal when I play a rogue, I won't be going through pockets or backpacks. However, if I get a chance to embezzle a bit I will take it. DM: You find a chest with 500 gold in it. Rogue: I bring it back to the party. "Hey guys, I found 400 gold!" Half the time the group doesn't even notice, and the other half they don't really care. I never take too much and they're still happy to be getting gold. And I get to feel like a little bit of a scoundrel. Fender fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Apr 22, 2012 |
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Apr 22, 2012 21:28
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I'm hosting a session in 2 hours and I have a question that will undoubtedly come up: Does a Paladin need a Holy Symbol to cast Lay on Hands? What about Channeling? Channel Energy on Clerics explicitly says it requires them to present the Holy Symbol. Since Paladins channel "as a cleric" I'm going to assume that yes, they need a holy symbol to do that. Lay on Hands doesn't mention anything about a Holy Symbol. I suppose he can do that without one?
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Apr 22, 2012 21:39
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Inverse Icarus posted:I'm hosting a session in 2 hours and I have a question that will undoubtedly come up:
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Apr 22, 2012 21:43
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Nanja Monja posted:Just assume the paladin has a holy symbol on their armor or shield and let that count as presenting it. Part of the adventure has the players stripped of all gear.
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Apr 22, 2012 21:47
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Nanja Monja posted:Just assume the paladin has a holy symbol on their armor or shield and let that count as presenting it. The "undoubtedly come up" he's referring to is probably locking his players in prison without any of their items.
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Apr 22, 2012 21:48
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Thanks guys. Yeah, I'll follow the rule of Wheaton and be a lot less dickish towards my fellow players. Besides, I can only exploit the whole "newbie" thing for so long. Anyway, I've got a couple of questions: 1) I'm a little lost on how to use Knowledge: Dungeoneering. It says it's used for spelunking, underground hazards, abberations, oozes, and stones. But in what contexts is it really useful for? It was the skill I was spamming in the campgaign. 2) Pathfinder Society apparently won't give me enough leeway to make my extra income thru B&E, since most of our sessions are set in friendly territories. What profession/craft/performance would you guys recommend for a rouge? Or is there a way for my character to make with a little B&E on the side?
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Apr 22, 2012 21:52
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Benny the Snake posted:1) I'm a little lost on how to use Knowledge: Dungeoneering. It says it's used for spelunking, underground hazards, abberations, oozes, and stones. But in what contexts is it really useful for? It was the skill I was spamming in the campgaign. Ideally, you can talk to your DM and tell him "Just assume that whenever my character is looking around, he's making a Knowledge (Dungeoneering) check." Then, let him handle it and let you know if you notice anything. Knowledge checks should be done secretly by the DM anyway. If you don't trust him to do that for you, or think he might have forgotten, you can simply say "Do I know anything based on my knowledge skill?" If he forgot he can roll it now, and if you didn't (or if there's nothing to know) he can just say "No." Knowledge Dungeoneering has a few uses, but the biggest ones are identifying a hazard found in a dungeon (like knowing what Brown Mold is before you walk into it), knowing what abilities creatures in a dungeon might have (such as identifying a Dark Stalker properly, and knowing it can cast Darkness) guessing how far underground you are at a given time, etc. Some basics for all the knowledge skills can be found here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/knowledge If you talk it out with your DM you should be able to set it up so that you automatically make knowledge checks when appropriate, and won't slow down the game.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:05
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I've considered making a perform[legerdemain] bard before. Seems like it would be nice for a rogue as well for running cup and ball scams.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:07
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Benny the Snake posted:2) Pathfinder Society apparently won't give me enough leeway to make my extra income thru B&E, since most of our sessions are set in friendly territories. What profession/craft/performance would you guys recommend for a rouge? Or is there a way for my character to make with a little B&E on the side? Rules as written, all craft skills make the same amount of money: You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. If you're thinking about making items to actually sell, you're out of luck. It costs half an item's price to make it, and anything you sell to a merchant only sells for half price. Effectively, a PC cannot make money by making potions, scrolls, or other magic items. If they could, everyone would take a 1-month break all the time and just churn out gold. Unless you work something out with your DM, like where you can sell potions for 75% instead of 50% of base price, there's not a lot of options for making supplemental income (which is why so many people become adventurers in the first place). Overarching message to you: Your DM is the rules you play by. Talk with them, work with them, and see what you can do.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:09
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Inverse Icarus posted:If you're thinking about making items to actually sell, you're out of luck. It costs half an item's price to make it, and anything you sell to a merchant only sells for half price.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:14
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Reicere posted:Actually, mundane crafting is for price/3. Only magical items are crafted at half. Did not know this. I guess you could make some money just pounding out breastplates all day.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:15
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Inverse Icarus posted:Did not know this. The real cheaty cheaty cheat cheat trick for crafting is to refine raw material... into better raw materials. With iron ore into iron into steel you cut out the middle man and can get a decent return at the final stage.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:19
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Reicere posted:I've considered making a perform[legerdemain] bard before. Seems like it would be nice for a rogue as well for running cup and ball scams.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:23
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Inverse Icarus posted:Channel Energy on Clerics explicitly says it requires them to present the Holy Symbol. Since Paladins channel "as a cleric" I'm going to assume that yes, they need a holy symbol to do that. I agree with both these assessments. Note that the game isn't super specific about what counts as a holy symbol, though, so you might just let him draw it on his hand with charcoal or something similar. Where does he get charcoal? In my experience, where there are PCs, there's fire.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:25
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We had the cleric in our party during a prison-break once carve the holy symbol of Pharsma into his forehead for the duration. The GM gave him a point of damage and let him choose to keep it unhealed in the event of magical healing overruns, and he got to not be totally unable to channel or cast spells with a Focus, and actually play his character in a cool and fun way, with a terrifying glowing bleeding holy symbol on his face. It was awesome.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:46
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Hey is there a store locator I can use? My local store only holds Pathfinder games every third week of the month.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:23
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Benny the Snake posted:Hey is there a store locator I can use? My local store only holds Pathfinder games every third week of the month.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:54
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grah posted:We had the cleric in our party during a prison-break once carve the holy symbol of Pharsma into his forehead for the duration. The GM gave him a point of damage and let him choose to keep it unhealed in the event of magical healing overruns, and he got to not be totally unable to channel or cast spells with a Focus, and actually play his character in a cool and fun way, with a terrifying glowing bleeding holy symbol on his face. It was awesome. My cleric dealt with it for two days and on the third day pricked his hand and drew a holy symbol on the back of his other hand in his own blood. Gonna let him keep it until he sweats/sleeps.
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Apr 23, 2012 05:09
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So I scrapped my inquisitor build because I become more intrigued by a halfling cavalier. Which leads to its own set of problems, namely how important is it to have a 16 or 18 in your primary attack stat? In 4e not having an 18 in your primary attack stat was Real Dumb. Haflings start at -2 to strength so getting them up to 16 on a 15 point buy means sacrificing near everything else.
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Apr 23, 2012 05:19
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Are there any clever ways, through use of feats or traits or whatnot, to reduce the level of a spell? Specifically, I'd like to be able to prepare Glitterdust using a 1st-level spell slot.
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Apr 23, 2012 05:22
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Porkness posted:Are there any clever ways, through use of feats or traits or whatnot, to reduce the level of a spell? Specifically, I'd like to be able to prepare Glitterdust using a 1st-level spell slot.
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Apr 23, 2012 05:29
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adaz posted:So I scrapped my inquisitor build because I become more intrigued by a halfling cavalier. Which leads to its own set of problems, namely how important is it to have a 16 or 18 in your primary attack stat? In 4e not having an 18 in your primary attack stat was Real Dumb. Haflings start at -2 to strength so getting them up to 16 on a 15 point buy means sacrificing near everything else. It depends on how you build. You can still get a serviceable melee warrior even starting with 14 strength, but anyone who relies on two-handed weapons or critical hits should try to get their strength as high as possible. I've never played them, but I'd guess a cavalier is going to rely on using a lance to double their mounted charge damage, so the halfling strength loss is pretty unfortunate. That said, a +2 strength belt is only 4k, and a +2 strength ioun stone is only 8k, so if you commit some money to it, it shouldn't be too hard to get a +4 strength bonus by level 6 or so. That's... not great, but then again, most characters are going to suck somehow at very early levels. Also, since I'm ignorant about cavaliers, it's possible that there is a build which does not revolve around mounted charging.
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Apr 23, 2012 05:41
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Porkness posted:Are there any clever ways, through use of feats or traits or whatnot, to reduce the level of a spell? Specifically, I'd like to be able to prepare Glitterdust using a 1st-level spell slot. Grab a few scrolls
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Apr 23, 2012 05:42
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MoonwalkInvincible posted:It depends on how you build. You can still get a serviceable melee warrior even starting with 14 strength, but anyone who relies on two-handed weapons or critical hits should try to get their strength as high as possible. There are builds that don't revolve around mounted charging but, well, why not just play a fighter or barbarian you know. I would play a half orc or something more appropriate but trying to get a large creature through a dungeon is kind of ridiculous most of the time. I suppose I shall live with 16 STR to start out with and work on getting some items to help me out.
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Apr 23, 2012 05:54
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Porkness posted:Are there any clever ways, through use of feats or traits or whatnot, to reduce the level of a spell? Specifically, I'd like to be able to prepare Glitterdust using a 1st-level spell slot. Theoretically the trait "Magical Lineage" along with Merciful Spell or (sometimes) Tenebrous Spell does basically this. Magical Lineage lets you choose one spell and reduce its adjusted level by one when you metamagic it. Merciful Spell, and Tenebrous Spell for [Darkness] Spells, both have a level adjustment of +0. So a Magical Lineage'd spell, as written, would be adjusted with a -1. Neither of these feats can apply to Glitterdust, however. (Well, Tenebrous can but it would be a +1 and not a +0 then). It's a lot of investment for little point, but as written you can have that Non-Lethal Magic Missile Cantrip if you really really want. Or, maybe more usefully, Tenebrous Darkness as a level 1 spell. Of course don't be shocked if a GM laughs at you for trying this and just says "No" Edit: As for non-optimal Strength cavaliers. Consider grabbing a few (or more than a few!) Paladin levels and taking Order of the Star, to add a decent bit of support, shore up your saves, and, along with a Silver Smite Bracelet add nicely to your ability to kill the heck out of your challenge-smite-charge target. Alternately, consider Order of the Sword, which at 8th level adds your Mount's strength to your own for determining damage against your Challenge target. This is a perennial finalist in "theoretical single attack maximum damage output" contests. This works doubly nice with a few levels of Barbarian and the Ferocious Mount rage power. And triply nice if you're a Half-Orc who can give out Amplified Rage to his allies. Since that will mean that you and your mount amplify each other's rage, gaining an additional +4 to strength each on top of the typical rage. So a Cavalier 8 Barbarian 2 with a con mod of 0 (do not have a Con mod of 0) can, for 3 rounds a day, have a nice +8 to both his own and his mount's strength. Which means a +8 to mounted charge damage rolls, which is actually a +16 because you are using a lance right? Which is a +24 because of course you have Spirited Charge. The Extra Rage feat (+6 rounds of rage per day) is helpful for this sort of build if you don't want too many Barbarian levels. grah fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 06:04
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Yeah I was planning on order of the sword + lance + spirited charge +drive by charge +power attack + mounted combat + velocripator combo. I hadn't thought about taking levels in Barbarian but that's an interesting idea. Currently still trying to wrap my head around how companions work, it looks like - unlike 4e - they get their own set of actions and don't just use yours?
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Apr 23, 2012 15:39
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adaz posted:Currently still trying to wrap my head around how companions work, it looks like - unlike 4e - they get their own set of actions and don't just use yours? Just so. Pooled actions in 4e was a reaction to problems that can arise in 3e when a character breaks the action economy over his knee (e.g. a druid with a dozen summons). While riding it, your interactions will be governed by the rules for mounted combat (you should typically be able to direct it as a free action how to spend its own actions); dismounted, you are technically supposed to use the rules under the Handle Animal skill as modified by the Link companion special ability, although I have never met anyone who does this instead of just handwaving it.
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Apr 23, 2012 15:59
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Most of those Mounted Combat rules become irrelevant when you are riding your own (automatically War-Trained) mount and your Ride skill makes you autopass a DC 5 check, i.e. 1 rank while Ride is a class skill. It is important to note that if your mount moves more than 5 feet while you are riding it, you only get a single attack. This works just fine for charging, especially if your mount has Pounce, but it's worth noting that you can't full attack when your mount takes more than a 5-foot step, which may be important for you. There is a feat that fixes this but it can't be taken until level 14 at the earliest. Edit: I believe if you're planning to go all the way to level 20, the Barbarian levels ultimately lower your damage output, as they cut you off from the Cavalier capstone that doubles your charge damage yet again (up to x4 for those of us counting. x6 on a crit) by most readings of that capstone. However right up to level 19, that strength bonus from raging, especially if you're quadrupling it via Tactician + Amplified Rage + Order of the Sword, should come out ahead. grah fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 16:33
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EscortMission posted:This could actually end as a straight up interparty throwdown without consequences. There is absolutely no such thing. PC vs PC combat will always have social consequences and you should think very hard indeed before forcing it.
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Apr 23, 2012 17:50
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