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Also as far as anyone knows they're both dead.
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Apr 22, 2012 23:27
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Azure_Horizon posted:That last sentence seems to contradict your first; a rather large chunk of the Western canon of literature is fiction, and it's all intellectually stimulating. Most of their intellectually stimulating bits are gussied up treatises on the nature of Man (e.g. Candide). The majority of the rest are important less for what they have to say and more for how they have shaped our culture (The Odyssey, Le Morte d'Arthur, etc.). That's not to say that there aren't some elements of fiction that get at things impossible to say otherwise, but it's a very small percentage.
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Apr 22, 2012 23:51
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whowhatwhere posted:Most of their intellectually stimulating bits are gussied up treatises on the nature of Man (e.g. Candide). The majority of the rest are important less for what they have to say and more for how they have shaped our culture (The Odyssey, Le Morte d'Arthur, etc.). Haha yes the fiction that had things to say wasn't *~REALLY~* fiction guys. fart
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Apr 22, 2012 23:56
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Candide is basically fictional characters spouting talking points at each other. There's not so much a story in those works as a series of situations for these one-note characters to reiterate the point the author is trying to make.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:01
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whowhatwhere posted:Most of their intellectually stimulating bits are gussied up treatises on the nature of Man (e.g. Candide). The majority of the rest are important less for what they have to say and more for how they have shaped our culture (The Odyssey, Le Morte d'Arthur, etc.). You're seriously going to take the stance that art is meaningless to humanity? Really?
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Apr 23, 2012 00:40
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Candide sounds like a dreary, tedious piece of poo poo when you put it that way.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:41
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I think we can all at least agree that ASOIAF will pretty much define the next thousand years of human history. I only wish I could be alive to see those glistening cities of the future.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:45
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If science fiction has taught me anything, it is that future cities will truly glisten wetly.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:47
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That's from all the oil in the precipitation, where the sky is the colour of a television set playing static and all the signs are inexplicably in Japanese.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:48
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You mean Chinese. Everything being part Japanese is so 80's.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:50
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whowhatwhere posted:Most of their intellectually stimulating bits are gussied up treatises on the nature of Man (e.g. Candide). The majority of the rest are important less for what they have to say and more for how they have shaped our culture (The Odyssey, Le Morte d'Arthur, etc.). But now you're throwing out your earlier statement: "Literature" says something new about the human condition (which gussied up treatises on the nature of Man would be). I'll take even one example of canonical Western literature that did: Heart of Darkness. Some of its ideas are old, but it's presented in a fashion that both reinforces their importance and provides discussion for future generations. You're skewing fiction very very heavily if you say that only a small percentage of it says "things impossible to say otherwise." This is borderline wrong, really. In fact, the point of fiction is to do just that. Azure_Horizon fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 00:57
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I said that it "ostensibly" says new things, not that it does. Literature is worthwhile, but my dislike of the literature trolls (almost all works of genre fiction is trash and the ones we deign to read have transcended their genre) has curdled me into a nonfiction troll (almost all fiction is trash, and the ones I deign to read have transcended beyond mere story). IRQ posted:You're seriously going to take the stance that art is meaningless to humanity? 
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Apr 23, 2012 01:04
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I mean the use of fiction as far as 'issues' are concerned isn't its ability to 'say' things - rhetoric is a superior form for that - but its ability to explore an issue from multiple sides without necessarily coming down on one particular side in a heavy-handed and didactic manner.
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Apr 23, 2012 01:22
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^^^^ I wouldn't call that the real value of fiction, as one can explore a topic without coming down on any one side in other forms as well. The true strength is its ability to explore these issues without boring the audience to pieces. from the spoiler TVIV thread: Strom Cuzewon posted:My non-book reading friend isnt impressed with renly. I told him to "wait til episode ~7, Renly does some awesome stuff later in the book" Someone get this goon a Wild Cards tag.
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Apr 23, 2012 01:34
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I have to stop looking at GRRM's not-a-blog every few weeks, because every entry is him blatantly not loving writing a damned thing and spending all of his time going to conventions. In his latest posts, he basically says that as soon as he's back from Europe he's going to spend his time watching the loving NFL draft and editing more collections. I'm surprised the Tebow trade didn't finish off his heart once and for all.
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Apr 23, 2012 01:44
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We're off the rails. Joffrey has gone full Patrick Bateman.
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Apr 23, 2012 02:19
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They seem to have somehow out-Gurmed Gurm with Joffrey this season.
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Apr 23, 2012 02:24
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Sent from my iPad posted:They seem to have somehow out-Gurmed Gurm with Joffrey this season. Unbelievable.  Raping a whore to death with an antlered scepter. Well done, HBO. GRRM can't out-GRRM you. 
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Apr 23, 2012 02:27
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Oh dear. HBO inspired the GRRM to write the only way they know how: professional jealousy. Did she actually die? I'm not watching the episode so I don't know if he insisted it got in...antlers first or not.
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Apr 23, 2012 02:43
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They copped out on Renly death. gently caress this show.
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Apr 23, 2012 02:54
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Seriously, everyone's gonna expect Renly to die now. They have a whole week to puzzle it out.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:01
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whowhatwhere posted:Oh dear. HBO inspired the GRRM to write the only way they know how: professional jealousy. I'm not sure if Ros was to beat the other girl with it or insert it. Her pose implied the latter, and I swear I saw the antlers go first.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:04
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whowhatwhere posted:Seriously, everyone's gonna expect Renly to die now. They have a whole week to puzzle it out. They'll figure it out. And I won't get tears. loving gently caress you, HBO. gently caress. gently caress. Goddamn it. gently caress.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:04
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They're getting tears all right. ....our tears 
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Apr 23, 2012 03:06
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From the tviv thread, of course.quote:And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am gay.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:06
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Tony Danza Claus posted:They'll figure it out. And I won't get tears. This, Christ.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:08
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whowhatwhere posted:Seriously, everyone's gonna expect Renly to die now. They have a whole week to puzzle it out. I was gonna say it's a chance for them to get some raunchy buttsex on screen before Renly get iced, but at most they will just squeeze in a pathetically tame bj. Absolute fuckers.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:09
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God drat everything Those stupid illiterate shits have a loving week to realize Stannis promised to kill Renly, and suddenly there's a demon baby sent by Stannis. It won't be a surprise at all. It's all gone tits up. I hate everything. They were supposed to be WILD CARDS'd and I got WILD CARDS'd. I have nothing left to live for. gently caress the world. gently caress you HBO. I'm out.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:15
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HBO are going to gently caress up the red wedding I just know it.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:22
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S3E9: Robb goes to his uncle's wedding at the Frey's house. S3E10: Robb and Catelyn exchange gifts with Walder and everyone says goodbye. God drat, I wish Showtime got the rights to the show. HBO loving eats giant barrels of lovely dicks and is worse than hitler. gently caress HBO forever.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:25
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Azure_Horizon posted:You're skewing fiction very very heavily if you say that only a small percentage of it says "things impossible to say otherwise." This is borderline wrong, really. In fact, the point of fiction is to do just that. Hell, I had my life changed by Stephen Sondheim, and I am in no way making that up. Fiction (onstage or off) talks about the writer's ideas about what people can be like, or are like, or should be like. And it's dressed up in shiny sparkly words, or in matte monochrome words, and I like words and their manipulations. If the answer to trolls is to become a troll yourself, then before you know it, it's trolls all the way down.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:26
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This reminds me how badly they hosed up Dany's bloodriders. They take Jhogo and rename him Rakharo, then build him up in a few scenes before killing him offscreen. When in the books none of the bloodriders die. The only one to get any screentime, and he dies noncanon like a bitch.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:30
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I can't believe they didn't kill Renly in the same episode as the shadowbaby. They could have just not had that Joffrey whore scene and used those 3 or 4 minutes to show Renly's death. I mean, it wasn't solely there for gratuitous purposes, it added some more Tyrion/Joffrey antagonism and established he's really a loving psycho - but we know all that poo poo already. We've seen it. Kill the loving king!
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Apr 23, 2012 03:30
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Tony Danza Claus posted:I hate everything. They were supposed to be WILD CARDS'd and I got WILD CARDS'd.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:35
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Arsenic Lupin posted:If the answer to trolls is to become a troll yourself, then before you know it, it's trolls all the way down. Welcome to The Bad Thread! Have you read Deuces Wild editedby George R. R. Martin?
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Apr 23, 2012 03:35
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I haven't watched the episode yet, can someone explain what happened? I gather they didn't kill Renly, but how did it go down?
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Apr 23, 2012 03:36
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It ends with the birth of the shadow baby.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:37
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They have no idea how to do cliffhangers. Also, who's the skinny short guy playing The Mountain? Because he's very much not the original guy and is tiny and skinny and crappy. This is the worst show. Who loving made this crap? Just kill Robb and pull the plug. Cancel this poo poo now.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:38
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The Mutato posted:I haven't watched the episode yet, can someone explain what happened? I gather they didn't kill Renly, but how did it go down? They have turned Littlefinger into a complete and utter retard, they made Davos boat Mellisandre beneath Storm's End without having killed Renly and without explaining that they were in Storm's End in the first place, other than the last 5 minutes and every scene with Tyrion the episode was really bad.
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Apr 23, 2012 03:41
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What are they doing with Jeyne? Are they actually doing that thing where she's a Lannister? Is she going to follow Robb around for the rest of the season now?
Hallgerd fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 03:48
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