|
Starmaker posted:I always figured that was Terezi's power, and Equius can be explained by being the hero of Void. But then why weren't Gamzee, Eridan, or Feferi ever controlled... maybe it just never came up? I don't think it's Vriska controlling her, since Tavros' symbol is in there as well- since she's not an animal that doesn't make sense. I'd say the implication is that she was trying to unlock the psychic mind control powers that other Trolls have. Vriska might have been an aberration as a high-blooded psychic, but that doesn't mean her power itself is unknown. Keep in mind that Hussie has heavily implied that purple-bloods (Gamzee's caste) have subconscious fear manipulation powers as well. And hasn't it been said that Vriska can't control strong-willed people? She can only control Sollux half the time, and I don't think she could control Aradia, even before she died. I'd say the Condensce is probably pretty strong-willed. Glory of Arioch posted:Interesting dig on John here -- noting that he's seriously immune to witnessing hosed up poo poo. Maybe that's a function of the Maid of Life powers -- he's so "made of life" that nothing can dim his spirit? (Note that ancestors seem like they have the "theme" of the players they serve as ancestors to, not their alternate selves as players, e.g.: Aranea being a pirate (thief) rather than a healer (sylph,) B2 Rose being notoriously elusive to the press (void), etc.) I don't think B2 Rose's press-immunity is Void-based, seems more like it's grimdark based, especially since it's rumoured she used dark magicks to get more money than there is in circulation from her book sales and she has vision omni-fold (Seer for sure, of Light probably). Even B2 Dave is described as being in a knightly order or some poo poo. Mazerunner fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Apr 24, 2012 |
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 06:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 03:11 |
|
|
Guys it's pretty obvious the Condesce is trying to learn mind control and animal communion there. Until Hussie suddenly shows us this is how Vriska and Tavros are loving poo poo up at least I guess. DontMockMySmock posted:I just had a thought. Obviously there's no reckoning on B2 Earth, because B2 Skaia got blown up. But what if Jade gets B1 Skaia into place and then B2's reckoning starts bombarding it, and B1 Skaia doesn't have any defense portals left? Or maybe it does but the meteors go to B1 Earth? Probably pointless speculation, but whatever. Some meteors still pass through to B2 Earth that weren't part of the B1 reckoning. The frog ruins at Jake's island for one thing, and if you allow for a reckoning in B2's session in the first place you can have a very nice explanation for the Condesce ending up in both Earths (passing through a defence portal in B2's session where she is present into both universes).
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 06:21
|
|
|
DontMockMySmock posted:It's mentioned, in the context of the Vast Glub, that the higher the blood caste, the more immune to psychic attack. Oh also as an addendum to this post it's almost certain that The Condesce is immune to Vriska's abilities, and this is correct: YF-23 posted:Guys it's pretty obvious the Condesce is trying to learn mind control and animal communion there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 06:23
|
|
|
I guess it's just the proximity of the two updates that got me thinking that. You are probably right then, about it just being her practicing it. I forgot about the strong-willed bit, and that the higher bloods are actually resistant being a canon thing (I always thought it was a fan theory). So okay yeah, it's probably just the Condesce doing that, then. Still, there's no way this wasn't intended as an (at least temporary) mindfuck. VVVVV Okay fine, but cut me some slack, I saw the picture before reading the log, obviously, so that was in my head. I parsed that "urban legends about her practicing her psychic abilities" as, like, the two of them trying to use their powers through her, or something. Come on! It's not like I was the only one thinking it  (wait what, Lil' Cal and Sassacre in love?) Starmaker fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Apr 24, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 06:25
|
|
|
It wouldn't have been quite so obvious if the log on the same page hadn't explicitly said she was trying to get other psychic powers. (Also she wouldn't be smiling. I mean come on) Interestingly, this update raises a parallel between Lord English and Colonel Sassacre, of all characters. I always knew his significance to the story had not yet been exhausted. But what could it mean? A connection to the picture Hussie drew, long in the past, of him and Lil Cal in love? Edit: I misremembered the Colonel's involvement in Jane and Jake's lives. Here it is from Nannasprite, and here we see it actually happening. Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Apr 24, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 06:29
|
|
|
So does this mean we can all stop speculating that Jake is gonna turn evil and become lord english? I mean I know we all love thinking that the characters are going to spontaneously turn all hitleresque in this thread but god drat.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 06:57
|
|
|
Tollymain posted:So... the entire reason that Jake has English's name and has so much English-derived stuff and all that stuff that we've been madly making theories about is... because Jade decided to gently caress with the Condesce's head? Some how I doubt it's this simple...
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 06:58
|
|
|
golgothasTerror posted:God jane is so lucky every day in her household must be like weekend at bernies! What a riot it must be im so jealous. I'm starting to believe that Homestuck is all just a publicity stunt by 20th Century Fox to hype Weekend at Bernie's 3.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 06:59
|
|
|
Pessimism posted:So does this mean we can all stop speculating that Jake is gonna turn evil and become lord english? I mean I know we all love thinking that the characters are going to spontaneously turn all hitleresque in this thread but god drat. A complete lack of evidence towards someone being Lord English and even evidence that says otherwise never stopped us from theorizing ridiculous bullshit before.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 07:03
|
|
|
SexyBrianPuppet posted:A complete lack of evidence towards someone being Lord English and even evidence that says otherwise never stopped us from theorizing ridiculous bullshit before. My favorite thing has been going through the old threads and seeing people jokingly suggest that LE was going to turn out to be Big Cal.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 07:12
|
|
|
Pessimism posted:So does this mean we can all stop speculating that Jake is gonna turn evil and become lord english? I mean I know we all love thinking that the characters are going to spontaneously turn all hitleresque in this thread but god drat. You and Hussie are trying to lure us into a false sense of security  Anyway, reason to hope that Jake won't become LE: Neither Snowman, the Handmaid, or the Condesce are blue, wear blue, or are made to adopt blue into their appearance. Edit: Snowman's blue universe blood. Thanks Bongo Bill. Dr Christmas fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Apr 24, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 07:15
|
|
|
The thought occurs that glob'glyb mkII freaking out and murdering the queens plans is probably tavriska's doing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 07:16
|
|
|
Dr Christmas posted:You and Hussie are trying to lure us into a false sense of security Snowman had blue blood as a consequence of being the universe.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 07:26
|
|
|
Pessimism posted:So does this mean we can all stop speculating that Jake is gonna turn evil and become lord english? I mean I know we all love thinking that the characters are going to spontaneously turn all hitleresque in this thread but god drat. But you know how much hussie likes his circular origin stories where things go back and create themselves. now that we know that jake was named after lord english, it's practically certain that lord english will be named after jake in the future.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 07:35
|
|
|
Tollymain posted:Man Jade is/was a badass. Actually, I feel bad for B2 John. Sure, everyone but Jane had to grow up without a parental figure, but John had to grow up with the loving Batterwich for a parent. After she killed her husband, his dog, and drove his sister off. Probably mistreated him for most of his life. And after all that, he still stayed a nice person.  Pessimism posted:So does this mean we can all stop speculating that Jake is gonna turn evil and become lord english? I mean I know we all love thinking that the characters are going to spontaneously turn all hitleresque in this thread but god drat. Nah, it just added more fuel to the fire. Now it's going to be a closed time loop. I don't think Jake himself will become Lord English, but he will play a part in the creation of him. Guaranteed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 07:40
|
|
|
This update does yield further insight into the origins of SkaiaNet. In both B1 and B2, the child that ran away from the Condesce ended up founding SkaiaNet, a company dealing in high technology apparently derived from Prospit and Derse. B1 Jake's trips into the Medium certainly grant him opportunity to get that sort of thing underway, but would B2 Jade have had a similar opportunity? How much did they learn about Sburb from the Condesce? Who else knew? (B1 Roxy, for one.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 07:50
|
|
|
Rooreelooo posted:But you know how much hussie likes his circular origin stories where things go back and create themselves. now that we know that jake was named after lord english, it's practically certain that lord english will be named after jake in the future. This. Anyone who saw this update and thought "Oh, okay, so cause/effect in this scenario was Lord English -> Jake getting named English, this is perfectly simple and will go nowhere else" may want to retain some caution, considering Homestuck in general and Lord English in particular's predilection for circular causation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 07:56
|
|
|
I remember when Snowman rolled around in the Midnight Crew intermission and the narrative said killing her would destroy the universe, I just took it as a joke about her beauty or something. I guess what I'm saying is that almost every joke in this comic seems to function both as a joke and as an actual plot device until 'proven'/deliberately stated otherwise. Of course when you take it too far you get straw-graspy poo poo like the troll blood coffee debacle, but honestly--who's to say that was any weirder a theory than the Roxy-and-Dirk in-the-future one (which actually turned out to be true)?
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 09:28
|
|
|
Why isn't she trying for Sollux/Psiionic powers? I she's all about the mind control/domination thing, but If you're collecting psychic powers you might as well go whole hog. I'll put forward the alternate theory that she's influencing Vriska and Tavros (with her super mind-control tiara or whatever), not trying to gank their powers. She wants them to gently caress poo poo up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 09:45
|
|
|
heythisguyhere posted:Why isn't she trying for Sollux/Psiionic powers? I she's all about the mind control/domination thing, but If you're collecting psychic powers you might as well go whole hog. Both Sollux and the Psiionic died using their powers. Probably doesn't want to take the risk. heythisguyhere posted:I'll put forward the alternate theory that she's influencing Vriska and Tavros (with her super mind-control tiara or whatever), not trying to gank their powers. Disagree. Check out [s] Make Her Pay for a clear example of different psychic powers being used against each other. The Scorpio symbol is for Vriska doing something, not something being done to Vriska. Similarly, the Taurus symbol is for Tavros doing something, not someone doing something to Tavros. So if those symbols are coming out of her, those are symbolic of her using those powers, not controlling those people.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 10:27
|
|
|
Blood Nightmaster posted:Of course when you take it too far you get straw-graspy poo poo like the troll blood coffee debacle, but honestly--who's to say that was any weirder a theory than the Roxy-and-Dirk in-the-future one (which actually turned out to be true)? People familiar with the panchromatic glory of lovely coffee. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 10:34
|
|
|
Can someone avatar-ise the young B1 Jake that's on page 6757, or here for the lazy? He just looks so dang cute! :3
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 11:37
|
|
|
Blood Nightmaster posted:I remember when Snowman rolled around in the Midnight Crew intermission and the narrative said killing her would destroy the universe, I just took it as a joke about her beauty or something. I guess what I'm saying is that almost every joke in this comic seems to function both as a joke and as an actual plot device until 'proven'/deliberately stated otherwise. Of course when you take it too far you get straw-graspy poo poo like the troll blood coffee debacle, but honestly--who's to say that was any weirder a theory than the Roxy-and-Dirk in-the-future one (which actually turned out to be true)? That wasn't a weird theory, Hussie was dropping hints like mad on that one. We didn't predict it just by randomly pulling it out of thin air.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 11:42
|
|
|
That is the saddest little Jake I've ever seen, watching a family member burn on a funeral pyre. It probably reminds him of a similar scene in one of his favorite movies, The Phantom Menace.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 11:52
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:This update does yield further insight into the origins of SkaiaNet. In both B1 and B2, the child that ran away from the Condesce ended up founding SkaiaNet, a company dealing in high technology apparently derived from Prospit and Derse. B1 Jake's trips into the Medium certainly grant him opportunity to get that sort of thing underway, but would B2 Jade have had a similar opportunity? How much did they learn about Sburb from the Condesce? Who else knew? (B1 Roxy, for one.) Now I almost wonder if Jade takes after B1 Grandpa's example even further.. There could be a slightly younger Grandma Jade running around on a ship doing things in the medium before going back in time to raise Jake and get stabbed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 12:31
|
|
|
Oh hey, the carapace people have gotten me thinking. We've had some chat about the frog temple since it's a necessary part of any game session, whether null or void. That implies at least some elements from the medium are sent back to the real world in a void session - will exiles be sent back? Exile stations? Also the fact that there was no reckoning coming kind of makes me sad that humanity died out. When humanity died to meteors in B1 it was because of a dumb game mechanic with no visible author, making it hard to blame anyone. The genocide of humanity in B2 was not going to happen via predestined meteor shower, however, so the Condesce's actions don't even have the usual "oh, well, you see the alpha timeline required it" excuse. Humanity's murder has a face to which it can be applied like a crime. Conversely, since the Reckoning doesn't have to happen and there's no Black or White king, it'd be nice if Prospit and Derse could survive this time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 13:02
|
|
|
Wrist Watch posted:Oh snap, I was interpreting it as the Condesce was using their powers. "But doctor... I am Pagliacci."
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 13:07
|
|
|
Midnight Raider posted:Now I almost wonder if Jade takes after B1 Grandpa's example even further.. There could be a slightly younger Grandma Jade running around on a ship doing things in the medium before going back in time to raise Jake and get stabbed. I could see this going that way, or one other way: Have 2011 adult Dave and Rose show up, since they're still alive in that timeframe. Have this be how they learn of the Batterwitch's future plans and start their resistance movement.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 13:55
|
|
|
graybook posted:"But doctor... I am Pagliacci." It fits so well with John. Even now, seeing him on the battleship playing the Ghostbusters MMO with Jade, it's clear that he'd rather distract himself and deflect true discussion of his feelings and thoughts with humor, absurdity, or straight-up denial.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 14:59
|
|
|
Bobulus posted:Nah, it just added more fuel to the fire. Now it's going to be a closed time loop. I don't think Jake himself will become Lord English, but he will play a part in the creation of him. Guaranteed. Well sure, creating him, that's plausible. I'm just sick of the "X is turning evil!!!!1"theories that crop up at the drop of a hat. Weird causation shenanigans and time loops are par for the course, but Hussie has never had his characters start acting wildly out of character just for the sake of a surprising twist. Even grimdark Rose wasn't evil, she was just really pissed off and also gray.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 15:04
|
|
|
Like a certain good friend of ours. Those main-characters-are-actually-evil! theories always bugged me too, usually because they had so little and such circumstantial evidence. I don't want Jake being LE, it just seems plausible. It could also totally not happen! In fact I'd rather it didn't, but I can't discount it just because these types of theories bug me. Chances are, he'll probably just have some role to play in LE's creation. (Hilariously enough, the best evidence against Jake being LE is the lack of blue ladies). Although, the LoCaH flash said he would be dead upon entering, and he has no dream self what's going to happen  I think the only reason I liked the LE theory is because it meant Jake would live, even as a horrible monster.And on a completely different note, the Grandma/Nanna Grandpa/Poppop parallels continue. Both Grandpa and Poppop got launched into space by a god animal, both Nanna and Grandma were cremated. I wonder if this means we'll have a Grandmasprite, because that would be awesome (and Jake deserves it, look how sad he is that panel).
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 15:55
|
|
|
MyFaceBeHi posted:Can someone avatar-ise the young B1 Jake that's on page 6757, or here for the lazy? He just looks so dang cute! :3  
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 15:57
|
|
|
Starmaker posted:Although, the LoCaH flash said he would be dead upon entering, and he has no dream self what's going to happen I don't really understand how people jumped to that conclusion about Jake. I thought it was really, really obvious that "dead on arrival" referred to his dream self (since all these plaques and lights really mostly talked about the kids' dreamselves). Jake's dreamself will be dead on his arrival.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 16:03
|
|
|
Starmaker posted:Although, the LoCaH flash said he would be dead upon entering, and he has no dream self what's going to happen If his non dream self is actually dead on arrival, the more likely course of events is that Jane will revive him by doing the lifey thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 16:04
|
|
|
This is Homestuck, and it is chock full of reacharounds and loops. While this update gives us hope that Jake was named/dressed according to LE rather than LE inheriting his appearance and name from Jake, it is still entirely possible given the knowledge we have or lack thereof that: - Jade took the name of English and shaped her technology based on the demon Lord English... - ... who is called English and has a skull shaped head thanks to being created somehow via Jake... - ... who has last name English and a skull shaped computer thanks to grandma Jade... - ... who took the name of English and shaped her technology based on the demon Lord English... And so on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 16:14
|
|
|
I like the idea that in B2 earth, all of the world's major technological advances and stuff were invented by one of two people - your choice was either garish multicoloured flashing technology covered in green skulls, or bright red technology made by a baking company covered in spoons and guy fieri. B2 earth must have been a very strange place, even before all the slavery poo poo started going down
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 16:55
|
|
|
YF-23 posted:I don't really understand how people jumped to that conclusion about Jake. I thought it was really, really obvious that "dead on arrival" referred to his dream self (since all these plaques and lights really mostly talked about the kids' dreamselves). Jake's dreamself will be dead on his arrival. Ehh, I have to play the flash again, but I remember something stuck out that really bothered me. Yes, the lanterns indicated if the dreamselves were living or dead, but something on the plaque seemed really ominous. Like, he would be dead again. Besides, his dream self being dead on arrival doesn't make any sense, the dream selves don't arrive, they were always there. And stating that Jake's dream self would be dead upon Jake entering is a really redundant and useless thing to tell us! We've known it for a long time! But yes, Jane probably just does the lifey thing. Although I don't think that can bring someone back from the dead, it just heals injuries, even mortal ones (WV never died, for instance). E: the other reason I think he'll be dead on arrival is that it fits into the theme of him as a Hero of Hope. By making things look exceedingly grim and doomed, he'll be able to overcome in an unexpected way. We're supposed to hope everything works out. That ominous plaque just giving us bland and dated info really diminishes that. Oh, everything is okay for the Hero of Hope? Well ok don't worry then, he's fine. He won't have to do the hopey thing after all. Starmaker fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Apr 24, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 17:03
|
|
|
Here's the text in question:quote:One by one the Nobles will arrive, and just as surely, one by one their lights will be snuffed out. In the beginning, the light of our Hope was lost. We must make do without it, and so must they. Then a mighty gust came and took the light of our Light as well, and our people knew despair like never before. But the light soon renewed its flicker quite spontaneously, and has been shining strong since. All in the land rejoiced. There's nothing particularly extra ominous said about the light of Hope, though another piece of text, as previously brought up, says that "the aspect of Hope itself is dead on arrival." I don't currently see any reason more specific than general anxiety - which is not always unjustified, of course - to assume this refers to anything other than Jake's dead dreamself. (Along with hints that Dirk and Roxy will be losing theirs.) Remember also that consorts and carapaces don't necessarily all quite get the dreamself/realself thing. WV was really confused by John appearing on that screen so long after the last time he saw him on the battlefield, and the B2 Prospitians mourned Jake's dreamself as though he were dead entirely.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 17:29
|
|
|
There was stuff in those carvings about how the consorts' mythology changed in response to the Scratch. Perhaps their prophecies got muddled by the existence of a second aspect of hope, who actually was dead before arriving in this session. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 18:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 03:11 |
|
|
quote:One by one the Nobles will arrive, and just as surely, one by one their lights will be snuffed out. In the beginning, the light of our Hope was lost. We must make do without it, and so must they. Then a mighty gust came and took the light of our Life as well, and our people knew despair like never before. But the light soon renewed its flicker quite spontaneously, and has been shining strong since. All in the land rejoiced. This bit in particular is what makes me think it refers exclusively to the dreamselves, as we have already seen this happen, where Jane's dreamself was killed and then Jesus'd itself and now lives again. As to this bringing us redundant information because we already know Jake's dream self is dead, I dont think that was the point of that passage, the stuff of Jake and Jane was establishing the past in relation to these consorts, the point of this message is to outright tell us that Dirk and Roxy's dreamselves are going to die.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2012 19:12
|
|
