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Piell posted:
Yeah I'm ok with it though. It's funny to me how Shadowrun does a better job than most simulating how violent and dangerous combat is. Obviously as in real life, guns are loving brutal, and better than a sword. Sometimes you want just want to make a guy who can run up a wall and chop off a robot's head though. Even though it would be 10x easier to just blast him with an assault rifle. edit: And take finishing move of course, so you can just hit someone with 4 katana strikes in the surprise round. SerCypher fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 15:55
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SerCypher posted:take finishing move Finishing Move is the god of melee in shadowrun. Troll street sams who spend every last nuyen and BP they can on being a Finishing Move monster are terrifying. Add in Milspec armor with strength enhancement and other appropriate martial arts. Add diced security guard to go along with the explosive lover's chunky salsa. Fry lightly with vehicle mounted lasers from the rigger. Feed to that loving fat rear end hacker, hope the bastard has a heart attack.
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Apr 23, 2012 17:52
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Also figured out something that only a sword adept can do quickly and relatively silently, and that is cut a hole through a wall and or slice a security door in half. Well I guess unarmed adepts can do it too, but I imagine that to be a loud messy affair, where as the sword adept just cuts 4 times and a square section of the wall slowly slides out.
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Apr 23, 2012 19:20
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I told my group I'd make a Rigger but haven't played them since old SR which was insane, anyone have any tips/rules of thumb for them?
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Apr 23, 2012 19:35
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Glitterbomber posted:I told my group I'd make a Rigger but haven't played them since old SR which was insane, anyone have any tips/rules of thumb for them? Drones are your best friend. Seriously. Vehicles, yeah, they're nice. A drone floating around full of Databombs with a mounted weapon(or just with a grenade taped to it if it's too small to mount a weapon) is the way to go though. They're cheap, basically expendable, and extremely dangerous. You can easily make up for them being weak by having them work in groups. And the databombs are nice little gifts to anyone who tries to hack them. Bonus points for putting an IC into them that hacks the system of anyone accesses them, and looks for a key file in a certain directory. If the key file ain't where it's supposed to be, the IC hits the delete button on the enemy's harddrive. MohawkSatan fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 19:40
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SerCypher posted:Also figured out something that only a sword adept can do quickly and relatively silently, and that is cut a hole through a wall and or slice a security door in half. Do some reading on Barrier Ratings. Your weapon focus isn't a lightsaber.
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Apr 23, 2012 22:12
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Bigass Moth posted:Do some reading on Barrier Ratings. Your weapon focus isn't a lightsaber. Melee Weapons do their full damage against Barriers. There are different criteria for attacking through barriers and attacking the barriers themselves. So although you can't stab someone through a barrier with a sword very easily, you get to add all your hits up for damaging barriers. For example to cut a hole in a security door, (Armor 8, Structure 9) A strength 6 character holding a Katana 2-handed and with all the relevant martial arts (9 Damage -1 AP) Would get to roll about 20 Dice to add more hits. The barrier would get roll roll it's armor x2 (16 Dice) to resist. So if the attacker gets more or equal hits, she would cut a 1 meter square hole in the security door. Or Drywall, Chainlink Fence, Armored Glass. You probably couldn't cut through say a brick wall in a single attack, but you could still do it faster/quieter than any other way. Obviously that may or may not ruin a magical sword, I'm not sure if weapon foci are necessarily any tougher than mundane weapons. Really they are meant more for astrally projecting magicians to gently caress poo poo up, but I just like magical swords. Edit: Maybe I should just take a magic sledgehammer SerCypher fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 22:37
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Take a sledge hammer, stack strength, magic buffs, availablility 20 muscle augmentations, adept boosts, troll base, three weapon foci. You'll still do less damage to barriers than a stick of dynamite. Fun fact: The Demolitions skill is based off of Logic, a stat which is surprisingly easy to spike through augmentation. Top barrier destroying build is a demolitionist with cerebral boosters, PuSHeD, and whatever that third +logic whatchamacallit is. You can look all day for a reason to take melee, but there basically isn't one. It's a style choice--I'd recommend focusing on defensive reaction boosting options (move by wire, reachin enhancers, synthacardium, synch, reakt, etc etc etc) to get your active defenses as high as possible, and (to use modern parlance) tank for the party. Then it hardly matters what weapon you're using, and it might as well be a bitchin' katananana. When your opponents miss constantly, it doesn't matter that your own damage is sub-par, you've got a powerful advantage.
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Apr 23, 2012 23:49
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Or you could try playing this game for fun and not being an obsessive min-maxer, your call.
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Apr 24, 2012 00:17
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Glitterbomber posted:Or you could try playing this game for fun and not being an obsessive min-maxer, your call. 500 pounds of explosives all day every day.
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Apr 24, 2012 00:43
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I once killed a shogoth in COC with a massive amount of TNT because my DM didn't look at my character sheet's inventory well enough. Best end to a campaign.
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Apr 24, 2012 01:08
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Glitterbomber posted:Or you could try playing this game for fun and not being an obsessive min-maxer, your call. Nobody said what he's doing is WRONG, we're just pointing out the many ways that he will quickly realize how limited his character is. Being "badass anime dude with huge sword" is fine I guess, but against basically any mobs other than those who are similarly armed he will be destroyed quickly, even by a small group of street gangers with SMGs. I haven't played in forever, but I always tried to make characters who were USEFUL and would realistically be hired to do a job where others needed to depend on them. If i saw sword adept guy was watching my back I'd probably take a different job.
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Apr 24, 2012 03:22
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Counterpoint: Sword Adept guy with a weapon focus would be good against spirits, elementals, and other magically-based adversaries with "Immune To Normal Weapons". No matter if you drop a dumping thousands of APDS rounds, hundreds of grenades and then 500lbs. bomb on them, those enemies will still be unaffected.
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Apr 24, 2012 03:27
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Bigass Moth posted:Nobody said what he's doing is WRONG, we're just pointing out the many ways that he will quickly realize how limited his character is. Being "badass anime dude with huge sword" is fine I guess, but against basically any mobs other than those who are similarly armed he will be destroyed quickly, even by a small group of street gangers with SMGs. I don't get the double logic people use some times. Lot's of character would get killed by a small group of street gangers with smgs. Using that as your logic means that no one should be anything but a min-maxed combat machine. Oh you made a hacker? Worthless. Face? Worthless. There are plenty of roles a high powered stealthy melee character could fill. And either way, I challenge you to show how a group of street gangers with smgs could kill a character with a camo, suit, high infiltration, and who can kill one of them silently with a single hit. Unless they are fighting in a open field in broad daylight its unlikely the gangers will ever even get a glimpse.
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Apr 24, 2012 03:33
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SerCypher posted:I don't get the double logic people use some times. Lot's of character would get killed by a small group of street gangers with smgs. Using that as your logic means that no one should be anything but a min-maxed combat machine. Oh you made a hacker? Worthless. Face? Worthless. There are plenty of roles a high powered stealthy melee character could fill. While you are initiating melee with one of those gangers (who will be using melee firearms rules and can just shoot you anyway), his buddies will be popping caps in your from various angles with very low modifiers since they have a positive group modifier. Also, how often are you in a wide open field in broad daylight on a run? The reason I recommend Killing Hands over a weapon focus is that nobody can take it away from you (I guess if they cut off your arms, but even then the rules are vague and that is an extremely unlikely outcome). A weapon focus can get lost/stolen/broken/unbonded/etc and you can't just carry a 3 foot long sword into a nightclub while you are meeting your Johnson to get a job.
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Apr 24, 2012 03:47
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Bigass Moth posted:While you are initiating melee with one of those gangers (who will be using melee firearms rules and can just shoot you anyway), his buddies will be popping caps in your from various angles with very low modifiers since they have a positive group modifier. Also, how often are you in a wide open field in broad daylight on a run? How will they even realize I killed their buddy? They probably can't even beat the -4 of the stealth suit, not to mention my infiltration roll. All they will hear is a gurgle of pain, and then see their buddy in two pieces on the floor. Fake edit: I am not trying to argue that a character that uses weapons is the best way to go, but to say that it is somehow incapable of being a contributing member of the team is silly.
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Apr 24, 2012 03:50
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I guess you'll see after you start playing. Hope it works for you, but I've seen this character a million times and the person playing it always gets really bored when they DON'T get to do their ninja steal stuff.
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Apr 24, 2012 03:57
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Bigass Moth posted:The reason I recommend Killing Hands over a weapon focus is that nobody can take it away from you (I guess if they cut off your arms, but even then the rules are vague and that is an extremely unlikely outcome). A weapon focus can get lost/stolen/broken/unbonded/etc and you can't just carry a 3 foot long sword into a nightclub while you are meeting your Johnson to get a job. While you have a point and this is why I buy Killing Hands whenever I have the chance (although, even with martial arts bonuses, melee still bites), I'd rather fight a fire elemental with a 3-foot-long weapon focus than my bare hands. I hope I don't have to explain myself further.
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Apr 24, 2012 04:01
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Bigass Moth posted:I guess you'll see after you start playing. Hope it works for you, but I've seen this character a million times and the person playing it always gets really bored when they DON'T get to do their ninja steal stuff. I have played and GMed quite a few shadowrun games, which is why I don't feel like min maxing. I have played melee weapon characters before, but they've been the troll type with ballistic shields in one hand. Honestly if I was talking about a face, would you say, "the person playing get's really bored when they don't get to do their talking stuff". I understand that you think that my character is not optimized, but you acting like I want to be a special snowflake and play a character that uses super squirts or something. Yeah the rules are semi stacked against melee characters, especially those with weapons. However the fluff and the artwork are full of them. Every other page including the cover, of street magic has dudes with glowing swords. Is it that wrong, to want to try an make one work in a game? edit: and unless you are planning to murder mr johnson, you don't need to carry a sword into the nightclub. real edit: Haha actually almost every source book's cover has a person with a sword on it. SerCypher fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Apr 24, 2012 |
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Apr 24, 2012 04:09
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Swords are cool, thats why, especially Katanas, everyone knows you get +2 to all your dice pools just for carrying a Katana around! Its the law!
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Apr 24, 2012 09:40
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.. since the PBP groups died stillborn due to lack of interest, I've been convinced to run an IRC (or that new Google Plus Tabletop Forge App) SR game.. much easier to run a game whre there's immediate feedback then a PbP game
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Apr 24, 2012 09:48
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Glitterbomber posted:Or you could try playing this game for fun and not being an obsessive min-maxer, your call. Tias, back me up, the character concepts I've been pushing forward for actual play are an orc face with no tailored pheromones, and a 2053 style street samurai with obsolete 'ware. A street samurai using a sword, in fact. Without being an adept or a troll. Or particularly strong or having weapon foci. I'm not saying never use swords! I'm saying if you do, recognize that it's a weak option and make that part of the concept. If you don't know how effective an option is, you'll design a gimped character. Go in with your eyes open and you'll have a clearer idea of what to expect... and you can decide if what you want is really having a sword, or if it's 420 breachin' walls (in which case you can make the swap to being a bulldozer rigger) Conversely, let's all pretend the rules of the game we're playing don't impact how much fun we have! And when your poo poo character does nothing you want him to, and you grow disillusioned with the game, just tell yourself it's because you didn't have a good personality and make the same mistake next time. SerCypher posted:I don't get the double logic people use some times. Lot's of character would get killed by a small group of street gangers with smgs. Using that as your logic means that no one should be anything but a min-maxed combat machine. Oh you made a hacker? Worthless. Face? Worthless. There are plenty of roles a high powered stealthy melee character could fill. If you can't judge a sword fighter on how he performs in a fight, how can you judge him? Faces and hackers have uses out of a fight--lots and lots of uses. A sword doesn't. And if a swordsman doesn't have an edge, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. Why not make your swordsman also a face or a hacker? Both are fairly useful for not very many points. Also now I've got the image of a fat, cheatoes covered 4chan user who happens to be a deadly physad with his genuine hanzo sword, bought for fourty newyen at the stuffer shack. Also all runners should be stealthy and if you don't have an infiltration pool of at least eight you're really going to have trouble functioning no matter what your concept is, unless you specifically plan for it with some bizzare gimmick like being a famous simsense star. And even then, stealth is a good idea. So having your big gimmick as "sneaky killer" lags a bit--especially when every other combat character is almost certainly sneaky, and you have to spend extra points to be dangerous with that sword, and had you gone for a silenced suppressed plastic SMG you'd do that damage for less BP. There are some interesting options for subtle sneaky swords, but none can be hand-made telisima, which means they can't be weapon foci, which means no cutting spirits. None of this is to say that a sword is a bad choice. But it's sub-optimal, and if you refuse to realize why and compensate, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Tias I'm gonna play that anonymous, please include plenty of opportunities to take pictures of the antagonists, attach captions, and turn them into memes, tia.
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Apr 24, 2012 10:05
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I'm not sure where you want me to back you up. This is not a high-powered campaign, though we can take it that direction if you guys want to. But, SerCypher, I will agree that a peak blade ninja adept could prove to be a disappointing concept, for the fact that the fewer "thunders" (areas of specialization) a character has, the more often he will have to leave the spotlight to others, leaving you with a harder time actively playing your character and his/her skill set. Historically (and in Shadowrun), Samurai did a lot of things. Apart from being a master swordsman, you could have your guy be a stately leader (buff Leadership or get bioware/adept powers that influence others), technical knock and merchant (negotiation, mechanic or armorer skills, Jury-Rigger/College Educated qualities), or even a shinto mage! The possibilities, as they say, are endless.
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Apr 24, 2012 13:50
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Mystic Mongol posted:There are some interesting options for subtle sneaky swords, but none can be hand-made telisima, which means they can't be weapon foci, which means no cutting spirits. I want to be a master of disguise physad who has a variety of low-power weapon foci. Things like a ball-peen hammer, six inch flathead screwdriver, or even a belt/sarong.
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Apr 24, 2012 13:58
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Clearly we should made a compromise of using a GUNBLADE! The ultimate fusion of a gun and a blade!  edit: Real life example, pistol sword, Bayonet. Nyaa fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Apr 24, 2012 |
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Apr 24, 2012 14:26
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Personally, I've always been a fan of the monowire whip. Easy to conceal, good damage and extra reach, with the opperunity to stop people running away. (as long as you don't mind your target losing a foot.) you could even get it fitted into a cyber finger, for that extra surprised look on the face of your captor. Of course, there was the time that I critically glitched and took my own head off. Rest in peace Zorro Jones, you will be missed.
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Apr 24, 2012 14:41
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A world with critical glitches is not safe for monowhip users. As far as I'm concerned, each and every one of them is living on borrowed time. Life fast, die young, and leave a good looking torso.
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Apr 24, 2012 16:24
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Mystic Mongol posted:Being helpful I get it man, trust me. That's why I've been bullshitting in the thread about it, to try and figure out ways to make it work. It just seemed some people's advice is "don't do it". Which is ok, but not really that helpful. My character is already going to be the son of a high ranking yakuza member (Made Man, Privileged Family Name), so maybe I'll put more into the leadership and intimidation portion of that. Don't worry though, I'm not trying to make some sort of one-trick pony.
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Apr 24, 2012 17:43
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SirFozzie posted:.. since the PBP groups died stillborn due to lack of interest, I've been convinced to run an IRC (or that new Google Plus Tabletop Forge App) SR game.. much easier to run a game whre there's immediate feedback then a PbP game Mate, you kinda disappeared on us in the recruitment thread. I'm still up for the game though, with the same character. SerCypher, so long as you're not a one trick pony, you'll be fine. For instance my Troll for Tias's game right now is primarily an investigative dude/face. However, I grabbed Restricted Gear. Since the character WAS a cop, he's got Restricted Gear(his only positive quality) for SWAT armor, a relic of the old days. He's also got a nicely customized Ruger Thunderbolt. So, to go along with a decent number and variety of contacts, and rolling around 7 dice(as a troll) to talk to people, high intuition to notice those little clues, 8 dice to judge intentions, all that kind of stuff, he's got 15 Ballistic Armor and 13 Impact Armor when he's in full on combat mode. And I'm rolling 9 or 10 dice to shoot a bitch. Master of any one thing? Nope. But good enough at the variety of things he does to remain useful.
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Apr 24, 2012 18:26
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Mystic Mongol posted:Also now I've got the image of a fat, cheatoes covered 4chan user who happens to be a deadly physad with his genuine hanzo sword, bought for fourty newyen at the stuffer shack. This is my go-to idea for a Shadowrun character now. Thanks.
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Apr 24, 2012 22:19
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Mystic Mongol posted:There are some interesting options for subtle sneaky swords, but none can be hand-made telisima, which means they can't be weapon foci, which means no cutting spirits. Sort of late, but I just reread your post, and what do you mean by this?
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Apr 25, 2012 04:44
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SerCypher posted:Sort of late, but I just reread your post, and what do you mean by this? Stuff like retractable flexible blades, foldout fractical blades or vibroweapons. Essentially, high-tech cutting tools. Of course, I would love to have an Indian urumi belt sword. It wouldn't be too hard to rig one up in Shadowrun, just use the sword damages but make it use the Exotic Weapon skill and give it the monofilament whip's crit fail. It would be like a safer version of the monowhip, precisely because it doesn't do as much damage as one.
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Apr 25, 2012 05:14
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Yup. There are also interesting swords that use memory shape metal to fold up into inocuous objects... like belts (boring) or hats or glasses or shoes or something. Also telescoping swords that flatten into a disc, and can either be deployed into a sword or pressed against an object to covertly stab it. I've been kicking around some alternatives to being a physad. You can get yourself a telescoping blade-optimized agility 9 cyberarm, slap on a reflex cluster (blades) and a katananana with a customized grip so you roll your skill + 12 dice to hit for just under 30,000 nuyen. Downsides: No cutting spirits (who cares) and you have a giant scary looking arm with three joints designed only for killing, which I suspect the police might take issue with. So you have to keep it wrapped in cloth and belts, and when it comes time to do battle have retractable cyberspurs shred the cloth and reveal your enormous metal arm. This makes you an anime, but that's OK, animes are cool. Sorry I was cranky. I can only say that I am a cranky guy.
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Apr 25, 2012 06:32
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WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU FOR 9999 DAMAGEYoung Freud posted:Counterpoint: Sword Adept guy with a weapon focus would be good against spirits, elementals, and other magically-based adversaries with "Immune To Normal Weapons". No matter if you drop a dumping thousands of APDS rounds, hundreds of grenades and then 500lbs. bomb on them, those enemies will still be unaffected. More importantly, the sniper rifle is a ranged attack. Spirits do not walk on the ground, they move freely in all three three dimensions. The only time "I CAN STAB IT!" would help you would be if you were fighting a materialized spirit in a confined space, it was attacking you in melee, or it was attacking someone else in melee which no spirit has to do if it doesn't want to. A spirit can just float hundreds of feet up in the air and spam Fear, Elemental Attack, or Psychokinesis on people with impunity. pw pw pw posted:A world with critical glitches is not safe for monowhip users. Young Freud posted:While you have a point and this is why I buy Killing Hands whenever I have the chance (although, even with martial arts bonuses, melee still bites), I'd rather fight a fire elemental with a 3-foot-long weapon focus than my bare hands. I hope I don't have to explain myself further. Mystic Mongol posted:There are some interesting options for subtle sneaky swords, but none can be hand-made telisima, which means they can't be weapon foci, which means no cutting spirits. Mystic Mongol posted:Top barrier destroying build is a demolitionist with cerebral boosters, PuSHeD, and whatever that third +logic whatchamacallit is. A typical concrete wall has an Armor Rating of 16 and 13 structure so it rolls 32 dice and would roll an average of 10.6 hits or buy 8, or on average a final DV of 15 for rolling. So it would takes one initiative pass and 10 bullets for a moderately min/maxed gunbunny adept to blast a one-square-meter hole in a concrete wall with his assault rifle. Since almost all of the DV comes from the bullets themselves it can done almost as effectively with any ol' machine pistol with full-auto; he would lose 3 DV from the -9 recoil but it would still work pretty well. If our gunbunny used an Ingram SuperMach with a heavy barrel/personalized grip for a total of 6 RC, he would lose 6 dice and 2 hits to recoil but gain +4 Barrier Busting DV from more bullets. This approach does not involve any tortured rule interpretations, the rules are just that drat stupid. For comparison, a relatively twinky adept demolitionist (6 base logic, 6 skill, +2 specialization, +3 from Improved Ability) and a kilo of rating 15 Plastic Explosive would also roll about 6 hits or a final rating of about 21, *2 for explosive = 42. Versus the same concrete wall, the demolitionist would blow a two-meter wide hole but it costs him 1500 nuyen and the time to setup explosives vs an initiative pass and 10 bullets. Mystic Mongol posted:A much more real threat is a rail drone... [...] What are you gonna do against it with your melee weapon? Jack poo poo, that's what. --- The real issue here isn't that it's a melee-centric character, it's falling into the trap of spending too much of your characters resources on combat. Many, many people make combat monsters in SR and find themselves very disappointed because combat can and often is a very small part of Shadowrun. In my current campaign, the gunbunny adept's Hardware skill has probably contributed more to the success of the group than the combat skills he spent most of his resources on. Edit: My campaign's gunbunny adept also has a monowhip in the finger-tip. He has not been impressed; he pops it whenever someone comes into melee with him so he can roll reaction + melee weapon instead of reaction + dodge skill he doesn't have, the idea being he can ALSO use the melee skill to murder instead of JUST defense. He would have just taken clubs or unarmed instead and not bothered. The only benefit is the 2 reach; he's better off just accepting the penalties for shooting in melee/adept centering them away/ than melee'ing. I also allowed him to buy an electrical whip that is like a stun baton but a whip so he can theoretically use some other whip when he doesn't want to messily chop people up. Gobbeldygook fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Apr 25, 2012 |
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Apr 25, 2012 07:36
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Gobbeldygook posted:"Hand-made telesma" has nothing to do with anything. If you want a monowhip as a weapon foci, you can have a monowhip or monosword as a weapon foci and it will work just fine. All that doesn't work is stuff that requires energy or nanotech like chainsaws or vibroblades. Aww, how long has that been true? I thought you had to hand-make things to be able to enchant them. quote:That's debatable. Let's take a moderately min/maxed gunbunny adept with an ares alpha. 2 base RC, heavy barrel, shockpad, personalized grip, 3 gas vents or 8 recoil comp without excessive shenanigans. He has 6 skill, 6 agility, +3 improved skill, +2 specialization, +2 smartlink = 19 dice or an average of 6 hits with no outside modifiers. If he does a full burst, the base DV of his attack is 20 for the purpose of damaging the barrier (2 per bullet * 10) with +6 from hits, so an average DV of 26 vs the barrier. Bullets do only 2 DV to walls. This is because an assault rifle is a bad way to knock meter-wide holes in a concrete wall. With the average of 7 hits, that's nine DV. Then the wall rolls twice it's armor. A hardwood wall stops bullets. Meanwhile, successes with demolition increase the flat damage inflicted by an explosive, not the effective damage. Which is then multiplied. A logic-stacked demolitionist can do thirty or fourty damage to walls. quote:That's completely untrue. The canonical rail drone in Arsenal has a body of 4 and a whopping 6 hardened armor, so you need 7 DV to hurt it. A typical, mundane troll with 8 strength and a sword could hack through that, much less an adept melee specialist. Even a Steel Lynx only has 9 hardened armor. The canonical rail drone is also on the ceiling. Does your troll have a ladder? Maybe if you stack enough dice, you'll be able to stand on top of them and reach it!
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Apr 25, 2012 08:07
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Mystic Mongol posted:Bullets do only 2 DV to walls. This is because an assault rifle is a bad way to knock meter-wide holes in a concrete wall. With the average of 7 hits, that's nine DV. Then the wall rolls twice it's armor. A hardwood wall stops bullets. quote:The canonical rail drone is also on the ceiling. Does your troll have a ladder?
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Apr 25, 2012 08:51
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Troll Parkor? That would be something to see.
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Apr 25, 2012 08:54
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Grey Hunter posted:Troll Parkor? That would be something to see. I am so tempted right now.
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Apr 25, 2012 09:12
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Gobbeldygook posted:No, they are defined as "DV of 2 per bullet". In the example they say, "He switches his clip out for regular ammo, and makes an attack test, scoring 6 hits. One bullet only has a base DV of 2 against barriers, so he’s inflicting 8 DV (2 + 6)." I invite you to come up with some explanation of what "per bullet" could mean in this context besides that the DV is 2 DV per bullet in attack. Do you seriously think a gun is more effective against a concrete wall than a person? A narrow full burst from a DV 9 rifle doesn't do 90 boxes of damage, but you think damage from a automatic weapon is multiplicative because of an example of play... that involves one bullet? I'll do you one up and throw a roll of pennies at a wall. 1 DV per projectile, blammo 50 DV I have torn that bunker in half. Oh, wait, that's retarded. And if you don't pretend to misread the rules you see that as written they let you fire an assault rifle at someone through a formica wall, they get a slight bonus to armor but miraculously the ten bullet holes do not punch a meter wide hole in the toilet stall they're crouching in. Even with all those successes, the DV from a single bullet doesn't exceed the concrete's armor value, and the attack automatically fails. If you're not using full auto rules (and making up new rules I guess because they sure don't exist elsewhere) then you've got ten bullets, none of which penetrate the barrier's armor and each of which automatically fails. Gobbeldygook posted:A troll is an average of 2.5 meters or 8 feet tall. His arms are probably about three or so feet long. A sword should be somewhere between two and three feet long. The drone extrudes from the ceiling somewhere between six inches and a foot. So the ceiling would need to be about fourteen feet high for a troll to not be able to stab a passing rail drone with his sword while standing firmly on the ground. Unfortunately, a standing jump is defined as a simple action so he could not jump-smash it, but a running jump is a free action and thus kosher for whatever reason. I guess you could include Wall-Running as an option here too. I did say warehouse in the original example. You just cut that part out because you are ignoring the problem with melee weapons I was describing, the absurd number of situations in which you will not be able to walk up to an enemy and stab them.
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Apr 25, 2012 09:26
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Gobbeldygook posted:A troll is an average of 2.5 meters or 8 feet tall. His arms are probably about three or so feet long. A sword should be somewhere between two and three feet long. The drone extrudes from the ceiling somewhere between six inches and a foot. So the ceiling would need to be about fourteen feet high for a troll to not be able to stab a passing rail drone with his sword while standing firmly on the ground. Unfortunately, a standing jump is defined as a simple action so he could not jump-smash it, but a running jump is a free action and thus kosher for whatever reason. I guess you could include Wall-Running as an option here too. Shh... don't say that too loud, the corps will start adapting. "Now, how high should we make the ceiling?" "Wellsir, a ceiling would need to be about 14 feet high for a troll to not be able to stab a passing rail drone." "Let's make it 15 feet. Brilliant work, Johnson" Also there's the issue that a warehouse probably doesn't have drones directly overhead, or even in one round's worth of movement. In my experience in my most recent game we did have some problems getting the melee focussed troll adept fister to shine. For a couple of fights I was able to set up to get him right into the action (maybe Mystic Mongol remembers the run on the executive apartments: cramped confines meant the melee guy was really effective), other times (the paratrooper siege at the university) it made no sense for the enemies to 'pop up' five feet away and the melee troll spent ages and ages running towards them. It was just dull and I regret following the movement rules that closely. Movement rate is stretched across the whole round, so if you spend two rounds running to get to the enemy (how many metres does that cover?) that's probably 6 passes for a wired street sam who would otherwise be shooting. Only one combat lasted longer than two rounds in the entire game. So melee can work okay sometimes, but if you're playing a melee guy definitely have a ranged backup (or see if the GM will fudge the movement rules, which I actually think might be a reasonable move).
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Apr 25, 2012 09:44
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