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Cityinthesea posted:Persona 5's gonna be poo poo anyway, where is my Nocturne sequel Atlus The Nocturne sequel is called Strange Journey.
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Apr 25, 2012 06:23
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To tell the truth, I actually prefer Devil Survivor style gameplay over the regular games at this point. Dungeon crawling has its charms, but Devil Survivor is somewhat more tactical, which I like. Now if only they would make SMT Ogre Battle.
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Apr 25, 2012 06:24
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vanov posted:All of the "lol anime" talk is kind of trite. There are actual animes of the anime games. The dork oroborus comes full circle as a matter of marketing. Why yes water is wet. poo poo, now I have to find a way to use the phrase "dork oroborus" in a conversation at some point.
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Apr 25, 2012 06:30
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Pureauthor posted:The Nocturne sequel is called Strange Journey. A proper sequel, specifically to the True Demon ending. All I want is to go gently caress up the Great Will 
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Apr 25, 2012 06:44
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Thuryl posted:I don't mind the idea of there being some mechanical bonuses for hanging around characters. I think Devil Survivor 2 handled it a little better than Persona 4, though, since the events that could rank you up actually varied based on what was going on with the rest of the plot. This distinction doesn't work because being able to choose whether or not you socialized (social link) is what communicated Persona 3 and 4's respective themes to the player. You don't have to involve yourself with others, but it enriches you or some such. I can't guess what Devil Survivor 2's whole gimmick is regarding them, but I don't think I need to to state that these two different approaches don't invalidate one or the other.
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Apr 25, 2012 07:16
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Well the "social links" in DS2 is a bit more direct in that they decide whether that character lives or dies.
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Apr 25, 2012 08:16
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Tae posted:Well the "social links" in DS2 is a bit more direct in that they decide whether that character lives or dies. I don't think a school setting needs to bank on "is this person going to live or die" to be direct to the game's meaning. They are two different settings and two entirely different games. Social Links in Persona show how you can enrich your life with relationships. Social... whatever in Devil Survivor illustrate whether someone survives, I guess? Seriously, it sounds great in straight line of logic until you realize there's zero correlation to be made on any kind of point. "These games both have social links so it stands to reason one is better than the other." That's not the case here. It's not going to be the case and it doesn't need to fall in line with that thinking.
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Apr 25, 2012 08:21
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Tae posted:Well the "social links" in DS2 is a bit more direct in that they decide whether that character lives or dies. No, it affects whether or not they'll be convinced to join you if you choose a path that isn't their own. Unless I'm unaware of something it doesn't affect whether or not they live. edit: Tallgeese posted:To tell the truth, I actually prefer Devil Survivor style gameplay over the regular games at this point. I feel the same way -- been a strategy RPG enthusiast since Final Fantasy Tactics. Hopefully DS1 and 2 were successful enough that Atlus will keep making games for the genre. Heavy neutrino fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Apr 25, 2012 |
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Apr 25, 2012 08:36
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Rinkles posted:Atlus now have, what, roughly a 4:1 ratio of recycled games to newly self developed ones? At least Soul Hackers never came out in English before? It's a new game to us, just like Innocent Sin. Tallgeese posted:Now if only they would make SMT Ogre Battle. Don't you goddamn taunt me, you monster.
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Apr 25, 2012 09:14
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Heavy neutrino posted:No, it affects whether or not they'll be convinced to join you if you choose a path that isn't their own. Unless I'm unaware of something it doesn't affect whether or not they live. There's some characters that die if you don't talk to them before an event happens, and those are Fate point conversations too.
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Apr 25, 2012 09:27
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Corrosion posted:This distinction doesn't work because being able to choose whether or not you socialized (social link) is what communicated Persona 3 and 4's respective themes to the player. You don't have to involve yourself with others, but it enriches you or some such. I can't guess what Devil Survivor 2's whole gimmick is regarding them, but I don't think I need to to state that these two different approaches don't invalidate one or the other. I was more talking about how in Persona 3 and 4 the social link events are exactly the same whether you do them in April, November or whenever, which could make your interactions in some links feel kind of weird if you did them at the wrong time: even if something hugely consequential to that character is happening in the main plot, they just plain won't mention it in the social link, because P3/4 social links just don't work that way. DS2's FATE events tend to vary more based on when you do them and what's happened in the game up to that point: as a result, there are more events where you can actually talk to characters about the plot instead of kibitzing about their backstories. I'd call that a fairly unambiguous improvement. Tae posted:There's some characters that die if you don't talk to them before an event happens, and those are Fate point conversations too. There's also at least one case where a character's survival is tied directly to their FATE rank: if you don't have them at FATE 3 or higher at a critical moment, they'll die after channeling Lugh even if you do everything else necessary to save them. That'd require you to pretty much ignore them throughout the rest of the game, though. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Apr 25, 2012 |
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Apr 25, 2012 09:38
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Thuryl posted:I was more talking about how in Persona 3 and 4 the social link events are exactly the same whether you do them in April, November or whenever, which could make your interactions in some links feel kind of weird if you did them much earlier or later than the game expected you to. DS2's FATE events tend to vary more based on when you do them and what's happened in the game up to that point: as a result, there are more events where you can actually talk to characters about the plot instead of kibitzing about their backstories. That's touching on a good idea, but not in the way you're implying. You're still defending Devil Survivor "FATE System" while asking for characters to exist outside your player character's sphere of influence. I think it's just as damning to have someone live or die just based on whether you, the player, interact with them. I don't think it adds anything to Persona 3's message to have characters exist without you being able to get "their story", so while it'd be cool to have a life simulation where their lives go on or events change based on when you interact with them, I think the idea is communicated via the limited school year you have. It doesn't need to be 100% realistic in this manner, because going through Persona 3 and then dying without having interacted with anyone is actually really depressing, and reinforces that players should actually, you know, socialize. That's the relevance of social links in Persona to the game's plot. They enhance the theme of the game. You don't die because there's some big enemy trying to destroy the world, you die for others. It completes that whole messiah symbolism, but really it's more that it tells the player "hey, people matter and it helps if you give a poo poo." I think it'd be great for characters to exist outside of the sphere of influence in possible future titles, but for the school setting of Persona... I think they did fine. They'd have to make an entirely different game, which would be great in this case, but I don't think it'd add anything to this particular formula. Hopefully they do just make a different game that can remain as interesting. I don't think Fate points or "relevant to plot" are really putting a spotlight on any significant shortcomings of Persona's approach. It's a great potential suggestion/idea that you have, but I still have to criticize the vantage point you're coming from with it. Persona 3 and 4 don't need to spell out that you're missing out on something if you don't have enough time for a social link or do it later, even though it'd be cool to illustrate or write in those moments where you're late or not going to make it... I think games with pre-rendered death scenes are either novelties in and of themselves, or expecting you to fail. Why would you want to fail? Because the constraints of Persona's development and style, it just gets a pass in that regard rather than suffering for not giving characters their own lives literally. And the characters you interact with do matter to the game's plot, because they help give it meaning. I don't think they have to directly fight in the battle to save the world or whatever. If we're going to let characters exist outside of a sphere, I don't think criticizing Persona while praising a game that makes a slight against that idea in a different way is constructive. Persona does well enough, and future games... poo poo, I'd hope they are different. In Devil Survivor, why should anyone live or die based on an interaction with the player? How is THAT realistic or even interesting? Corrosion fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Apr 25, 2012 |
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Apr 25, 2012 09:53
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quote:If we're going to let characters exist outside of a sphere, I don't think criticizing Persona while praising a game that makes a slight against that idea in a different way is constructive. Persona does well enough, and future games... poo poo, I'd hope they are different. In Devil Survivor, why should anyone live or die based on an interaction with the player? How is THAT realistic or even interesting? There's only one case in DS2 where that happens, and in that one case the character's survival or death is directly tied to their mental state, so it's pretty well justified. In every other case you save the character's life and they get closer to you as a result, rather than the other way around. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Apr 25, 2012 |
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Apr 25, 2012 09:57
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Thuryl posted:There's only one case in DS2 where that happens, and in that one case the character's survival or death is directly tied to their mental state, so it's pretty well justified. In every other case you save the character's life and they get closer to you as a result, rather than the other way around. If you're saving their life, then it's still you directly influencing the outcome of their development. Which means it's your influence that matters, not the character or anything about that character. Persona does this in a way, but there's a two way where they happen to contribute to its theme in a way that isn't just melodrama. "They live or die!" in this case.
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Apr 25, 2012 10:00
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Corrosion posted:If you're saving their life, then it's still you directly influencing the outcome of their development. Which means it's your influence that matters, not the character or anything about that character. I'm not saying social links have to work exactly like the FATE system and I'm definitely not saying that other characters' lives have to depend on how you interact with them, I'm just saying I'd like social link events to be a bit more responsive to the context of what else is going on in the game, and that was a thing that the FATE system did well. P3/4 links sometimes felt really disconnected from each other and from the rest of the game, like seeing a bunch of separate books laid out on a table and picking one to read a chapter from.
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Apr 25, 2012 10:02
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Thuryl posted:I'm not saying social links have to work exactly like the FATE system and I'm definitely not saying that other characters' lives have to depend on how you interact with them, I'm just saying I'd like social link events to be a bit more responsive to the context of what else is going on in the game, and that was a thing that the FATE system did well. You haven't really justified how it works better, simply because Persona 3 or 4 doesn't feature failure flags or time sensitive interaction. Because there are plenty of reasons to justify this lack of content. Persona's story I'd argue is far more complex than "save the world." I think these kind of expectations you're applying when human interaction isn't distilled in absolutes are kind of unreasonable, to be honest. Your idea for how to make interaction better is ignoring the type of stories that Persona and Devil Survivor are telling. In Persona, the Social Links are a significant part of the plot as well as a game element, and making some time sensitive/obvious statement really isn't necessary to communicate that "Hey, you should probably try to fit this in", and punishing the player or marking some specific/time sensitive event is probably unreasonably difficult when trying to convey the type of story Persona is telling. If you don't see why characters do matter to the plot of Persona 3 or 4, I have to say it's not because of when you choose to do social links. So the FATE System to me might work well for Devil Survivor, but I'm not convinced it's going to add or highlight what was missing in Persona's story. Corrosion fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Apr 25, 2012 |
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Apr 25, 2012 10:10
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I agree that the concept of social links was important to the plot, but the actual execution of the social links could have used some work. Like, say, if I'm playing the female protagonist route in P3P, why can I take Akihiko out for beef bowls a week after Shinjiro gets shot and he doesn't even mention it, just acts exactly the same as he would have if I'd chosen to advance his Social Link the week before instead? Devil Survivor 2 isn't perfect about this either and has its own issues with weird and abrupt shifts of emotional tone, but it does at least make more of an effort to take that sort of thing into account. At this point, though, I get the feeling that we mostly agree with each other and are just emphasising different things in our arguments.
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Apr 25, 2012 10:18
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Thuryl posted:At this point, though, I get the feeling that we mostly agree with each other and are just emphasising different things in our arguments. Let me close then, in typical longwinded fashion: Yeah, the Akihiko example you make is good. I'm still more apt to give the story more leeway, since Social Links are still optional for most players and contribute in a different way. I don't really care to see every social link apply to the plot directly, they're their own thing and I think it's important to let those characters be themselves in their own lives. I think it's important to recognize that normal people don't know Tartarus exists. For Akihiko though, yeah, he probably should have a reaction to what you said. In this case, I still think giving the player some room for imagination or however they want to piece these Social Links in isn't too big of a blow to how Persona 3/4 handles social links, since they are ultimately optional. I still think it'd be great to see this kind of approach-- in a different game or series. I don't think Devil Survivor or Persona 3/4 and how they approach these things are better or worse than the other, just different. That's my key point of contention. "FATE system wouldn't add anything other than novelty/aesthetic to Persona 3/4's story." I don't feel like I missed anything in the story, especially because I played a game where I couldn't have dated or gone out with Akihiko in the first place. The direct argument aside, my thoughts on it are that I'd still rather Atlus convey one idea really well. To prevent any strawmen, I don't intend for this to directly address the conversation we just had, my thoughts are just this: Frankly I don't find Social Links or things like Social Links to be all that great. Especially given the allusions you can make to Visual Novels. It's good that Persona has an interesting story/message, because if it didn't I'd still be likely to say "no thanks" to Social Links in general.
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Apr 25, 2012 10:32
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Grozz Nuy posted:At least Soul Hackers never came out in English before? It's a new game to us, just like Innocent Sin. No poo poo. I'm currently playing SJ for the 3rd time and Tactics Ogre (PSP) for the 2nd.
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Apr 25, 2012 12:16
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So Devil Survivor 2 FINALLY came in the mail (after 32 days.  )I know this has been asked before, but what are the things i should be aware of before i begin? To avoid shooting myself in the foot statwise, and such?
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Apr 25, 2012 14:05
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Technique posted:So Devil Survivor 2 FINALLY came in the mail (after 32 days. Unlike Devil Survivor 1, Strength and Magic builds both work fine. Magic is a bit more versatile and better at hitting weaknesses but Strength is better for raw damage. If you're going for strength, get some agility as well because Multi-Strike rules. Apart from that, the big thing to know is that the game isn't playing around when it sends you a death video: you have to take action or the character in the video will die, and sometimes you're on a very tight time limit. Actively seek out events that weren't around before you got the video and follow up on them.
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Apr 25, 2012 14:21
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Technique posted:So Devil Survivor 2 FINALLY came in the mail (after 32 days. The one thing that tripped me up was the second preventable death. When one of the characters tasks you with finding some RAM, drop whatever it is you're doing and go find it. Don't view any character cutscenes unless you're sure the RAM scene isn't available yet -- I forget whether or not it's immediately available. You don't have to build the MC for magic. There's a lot more worthwhile physical abilities (and they hit for amazing numbers), and they toned down the amount of physical reflection you'll meet during the game. The day 3 boss is nasty so get your team in top shape.
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Apr 25, 2012 14:24
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Corrosion posted:Frankly I don't find Social Links or things like Social Links to be all that great. Especially given the allusions you can make to Visual Novels. I'd honestly like to know in what universe "you hang out with characters in order to increase their friendship for stat bonuses" isn't like, the status quo for RPGs in general as opposed to some wacky anime thing. There's probably going to be something akin to that in P5, but it isn't particularly a unique marketing feature anymore. Bioware, Obsidian and Bethesda all do it in their games as well. Social Links are nothing but a somewhat silly version of gaining faction experience for bonuses. Setting-wise, you're hanging out with high school students/townspeople because that is where you are. It, or something akin to it, has a place in RPGs because it allows people who play them for the "roleplaying" part to receive some sort of benefit in return for their time investment instead of it being divorced from the rest of the game. It certainly could be improved. I'd rather play an Alpha Protocol where I can tell guys to gently caress off and get a different bonus than one where my only option is "pander to the creepy anime robot if I want Metatron," but still. People freaking out about it being "anime" or "visual novel" or whatever seem to be missing that it's something certain types of RPGs have been moving towards for a while, because direct character interaction is a pretty important part of those RPGs.
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Apr 25, 2012 15:26
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ImpAtom posted:I'd honestly like to know in what universe "you hang out with characters in order to increase their friendship for stat bonuses" isn't like, the status quo for RPGs in general as opposed to some wacky anime thing. There's probably going to be something akin to that in P5, but it isn't particularly a unique marketing feature anymore. Bioware, Obsidian and Bethesda all do it in their games as well. Where do I remotely imply that I'm not just as curious for this? Especially given how open I am to the idea of context sensitive interaction. Because I feel that relationships in video games aren't communicated well via decisions like social links or... I don't really see them as Faction Points, sorry but I digress... either due to resources or just the nature of the message being sent (Persona games in this case), I don't see it as a natural progression to look at Alpha Protocol doing thinhgs correctly, and then directly applying that to Persona. I don't gravitate toward Atlus' Franchises for certain themes of design, I'm actually tired of Press Turn... but I do gravitate toward their ideas and their unique style/spin. That being the case, just because one game's character interaction is similar to social links doesn't mean it's the same loving thing. They don't communicate or even touch upon the same themes, they aren't communicating the same world or experience. I don't view mechanics as detached from the game because that's just asinine. Which is why "pandering to Robot Girl" doesn't have to be better or worse than "actual, deep grasp of human relationships/theme/consequences" like in Alpha Protocol. They're doing different things. I don't see the value in viewing that from a straight line of progression when each game's handling and gains from character interaction to plot are entirely different from each other. They're pulling from the same idea, but my whole point about when someone says they want to "improve" what happened in Persona 3 and 4 regarding social links is that, you're not really improving anything. It would take a fundamental change in how the game is structured, a much larger budget, a complete access to resources that, frankly, I'm pretty sure Team R&D1's relatively lower budget isn't allotted for. Of course there's room to improve character interaction, but I feel making that point at the expense of a game that does a pretty good job of having an underlying message/theme is silly. Some of those Social Links in Persona 3 Portable, for instance, are clearly tacked on or not nearly as well thought out, you could probably improve those but it'd be grasping at straws to say that that is a huge blow to the entire experience. I think "do better" in this case means "do it differently." Social Links have had their run, my whole argument against it to begin with is that I didn't see what FATE points would add other than maybe some slight novelty. I'd rather the poo poo just be different, not social links, not the same ideas. I feel that "direct character interaction" in one world is going to be different on a game to game basis. I use the term visual novel because, unlike people who were throwing around the term "anime", that's very much in line with where Persona 3 and 4 are drawing this decision making content. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see an Atlus game in the style of Fallout with Shin Megami Tensei, or a game similar to Persona or even a future Persona title that deals with character interaction in a different way... my point is that SOCIAL LINKS cannot be improved by these concepts by their very nature. You're not improving poo poo, you're changing the game. It's not a straight line of development, it's just similar concepts of interaction. I think a game that's dealing with expressing simple consequences with a backdrop of "Carl Jung" concepts of Shadow --> Anima/Animus --> Self has to be just a bit simpler than experiencing a world with living, breathing people. It's not that the ideas in Persona 3 and 4 would be improved by implementing these better character handling concepts, it's that it would be different. It wouldn't and shouldn't even be the same, and if that's the case, I don't see the point in trying to retroactively apply it by saying "This game did it better", like that implies Persona 3 and 4 ultimately failed to make a decent point or fulfilling experience. I want a different game too, with different mechanics and characterization. I think that's a whole other discussion, but there's more merit to it than dumb rear end anime jokes, I'll give it that. Corrosion fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Apr 25, 2012 |
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Apr 25, 2012 16:54
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Persona 2: Eternal Punishment PSP trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzc1UHK-kXM&hd=1 And here's the first look at Soul Hackers 3DS
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Apr 25, 2012 18:50
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Policenaut posted:Persona 2: Eternal Punishment PSP trailer. God drat it i am getting so psyched for EP. Especially since Baofu is pretty much the best character in SMT.  Also no no no NO i'm not ready to get a 3DS. Don't do this to me, Atlus. Why must you remake the one SMT game i want to play the most for the one handheld i'll never want. 
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Apr 25, 2012 20:33
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Yeah the fate system was a lot better because it didn't relegate characters into their own little bubble of plot that doesn't interact with the main story
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Apr 25, 2012 20:50
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Corrosion posted:If you're saving their life, then it's still you directly influencing the outcome of their development. Which means it's your influence that matters, not the character or anything about that character. The concept of S Links in the newer Persona games absolutely contribute to their themes; your character is special for their ability to change personas, which essentially means you're "changing your face" to be able to protect yourself and others. Each of the S Links, because they advance when you pick the answers the other person wants or needs to hear (not what's morally or logically right), represents a different facet of the protag's personality. It isn't about hiding or eradicating the true self, though; it's about recognizing that there is no such thing as a Platonic self. All of those facets, good and ill, are a part of who you are and successfully coming to grips with and integrating them into your conception of identity are how you become a fully-realized adult. A large part of the action of P4 was everyone in the party doing this. The execution isn't great because of that weird disconnected from plot events stuff, but the concept is rather elegant and the games are very well designed. They also allow a much-needed type of freedom and prevent the game from being totally on-rails by giving you a progression you have almost total control over. And I'd absolutely be okay with something new in Persona 5, a change of focus or a new set of themes that approach that persona psych stuff differently or whatever, but you can be ready for something new without writing a bunch of angry nerd hyperbole about something old.
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Apr 25, 2012 21:49
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RentACop posted:Yeah the fate system was a lot better because it didn't relegate characters into their own little bubble of plot that doesn't interact with the main story With you completely and in regards to the post above I anticipate P5 using something similar. The fate system allowed interaction within the plot that also demonstrated different facets of your personality. I came to P3P after SJ and Devil Survivor so the S-Link thing took some getting used to and Tartarus sucked. Atlus seems to be good at modifying things that work. I'm not too concerned with crazy rear end plots, I want good mechanics.
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Apr 25, 2012 23:15
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They're not going to drastically change the formula for whenever Persona 5 comes out. It's too popular. It'll be refined and improved like it was from 3 to 4 though.
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Apr 25, 2012 23:21
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Technique posted:So Devil Survivor 2 FINALLY came in the mail (after 32 days. SAVE JUNGO. 
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Apr 25, 2012 23:23
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Zombies' Downfall posted:The concept of S Links in the newer Persona games absolutely contribute to their themes; your character is special for their ability to change personas, which essentially means you're "changing your face" to be able to protect yourself and others. Each of the S Links, because they advance when you pick the answers the other person wants or needs to hear (not what's morally or logically right), represents a different facet of the protag's personality. It isn't about hiding or eradicating the true self, though; it's about recognizing that there is no such thing as a Platonic self. All of those facets, good and ill, are a part of who you are and successfully coming to grips with and integrating them into your conception of identity are how you become a fully-realized adult. A large part of the action of P4 was everyone in the party doing this. The term is "Plastic Personality." That people don't merely exhibit one baseline personality, more that their "self" changes to suit their needs or the requirements of their environment, the people around them, and the perceived expectations around them. The game presents this as mask, though some walk away with the idea that you're "faking it." Not quite. It's not necessarily a facet of the person doing the changing, it's the combination/contribution of how they interpret the world and how the people around them matter enough to them to make them want to "wear that mask." quote:but you can be ready for something new without writing a bunch of angry nerd hyperbole about something old. The nature of the quote is making it so I can't tell if you're playing off what I was saying entirely or just accusing me of something I don't think I did.
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Apr 26, 2012 00:06
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Persona 4 was a lot more like telling people what they needed to hear rather then what they wanted to hear though. Fits with the "find the truth" theme of the game.
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Apr 26, 2012 00:11
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Dr Pepper posted:They're not going to drastically change the formula for whenever Persona 5 comes out. It's too popular. The fate system was not drastically different except that it moved with the plot. It definitely felt more natural than the dating sim element of P3.
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Apr 26, 2012 00:44
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Corrosion posted:The nature of the quote is making it so I can't tell if you're playing off what I was saying entirely or just accusing me of something I don't think I did. I wasn't specifically talking about you but referring to the number of people who seem to be griping about S Links and "anime" and Persona in general Dr Pepper posted:Persona 4 was a lot more like telling people what they needed to hear rather then what they wanted to hear though. I don't disagree with that, I just meant that S Links contrast with the social systems in a lot of RPGs by being based on a combination of "what they want you to say" and "what they need to hear" type stuff. A lot of other RPGs reward you for playing a character in a way that creates a universally consistent personality; in Mass Effect for example, you're usually trying to max out the Paragon or Renegade bar by tending to one type of behavior no matter who you're talking to. It's a fundamentally different way to look at creating a character or personality for your character in a roleplaying game, including tabletop ones. Prescriptive VS descriptive character construction, or something like that. RPG THEORY, EDIT: I haven't actually played Devil Survivor and this conversation is making me want to Baku fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Apr 26, 2012 |
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Apr 26, 2012 01:30
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Zombies' Downfall posted:EDIT: I haven't actually played Devil Survivor and this conversation is making me want to It's not bad at all, as long as you go in with low expectations you will be pleasantly surprised. Give it a try.
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Apr 26, 2012 01:41
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Zombies' Downfall posted:EDIT: I haven't actually played Devil Survivor and this conversation is making me want to My very biased opinion is that you're missing out. They use recycled assets and are obviously low budget but make up for it with with a gameplay system that's just better than the old turn-based RPG framework.
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Apr 26, 2012 01:43
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Thanks, I thought the post was great. Unfortunately, I was neurotic when I hit the end, as I had a "wait what" about it out of internet insecurity. ----------- Persona uses a bunch of terminology from basic Psychodynamic Psychology. It's not as complex as that may or may not imply, at least in practice, but when you look at the game's themes, there a bunch of incredible characterization done based around the themes established with these ideas. Kanji is a dead ringer for Carl Jung's Shadow/Anima/Self example, for instance. If you punch "Personality Psychology" into Wikipedia, you'll find quite a bit of terms that emerge in Persona 3 and 4. When Persona 4's main theme is "Searching for my True Self", understand that it relates to Karen Horney's concepts of "Real Self" vs "Ideal Self." Where you are literally, and then what you're capable of becoming. You're not "faking", it's showing that interpersonal interaction has a huge amount of depth. The issues that Persona tackles, while sometimes hokey or awkward, are still incredibly well done on a broad basis. There's a lot of 1:1 ideas/parallels to psychological theories, but it's not in some cheap way. Especially with how Arcanas are handled, which have some correlation to Carl Jung's Collective Unconsciousness, and more specifically, Archetypes and how a lot of the people you interact with are stereotypes that embody traits that carry across cultures. That's why the Japanese setting doesn't necessarily inhibit understanding the situations that occur in Persona 3 or 4 so strongly. Save for when something awkward happens and people snapback to "anime" or something. That's laziness, though. It's such a great game to use content in this way. Now if anyone can provide examples of what kind of message and themes that Devil Survivor 2 has in this same, err gently caress, similar way (excuse me), I'm interested in seeing what folks walked away with. Because with Devil Survivor 1, I just remember walking away with "Oh look biblical symbolism, this is stupid." Maybe it's changed in 2, I don't know. For all the criticism that Persona 3/4 gets for social links, I just don't have reason to believe that there's any of this type of stuff used to greater effect in Devil Survivor. Being related to a game's plot doesn't necessarily mean that a character has to directly be related to your actions. That's the appeal to me, but Zombies' pretty much nailed it in their post earlier.
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Apr 26, 2012 01:44
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Devil Survivor 1 is probably one of my favorite SMT games honestly. after Nocturne and maybe Persona 4. DS2 aint as good but it's still fun to play. Plus DS2 does have Jungo... Except for those loving bonus bosses 
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Apr 26, 2012 01:44
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After clearing the first day, i can safely say that i love DS2 so far. The atmosphere is nice and bleak, the characters seem pretty cool so far (Daichi in particular; I expected a generic Zany Anime Best Friend, but he's badass as gently caress??) and the gameplay is solid. Music owns too, even. I just want to know if there is a way to know if certain events will expire if you choose other events. Should i be prioritizing battles or non-battle events? It's kind of annoying to see two events you want to do and then be locked out of one of them without warning, so i wonder if there is any logic to this or anything.
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Apr 26, 2012 01:45
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