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Powershift posted:I sat in a new BMW 6 series at the auto show here, you just touch the door to the catch and a little eletric motor goes "BRRRRRRRRRT" and finishes shutting the door for you. Like luxury car trunks and stuff.
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Apr 26, 2012 03:37
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1337JiveTurkey posted:For my money, the biggest factor has been the continued use of cheaper but heavier materials combined with dimension creep as yesterday's midsize becomes today's compact. Cars like the iQ and Smart are far closer to the Geo Metro in terms of curb weight because they're so small and use ultra-high strength steel to protect the passenger compartment. A lot of the poo poo you posted here is wrong. Materials used in vehicles are neither cheaper nor heavier. If anything, materials are lighter and more expensive, vehicles just require more of them to perform to current standards. If you were to use the construction techniques used in, for example, a Volkswagen Tiguan, and only had to build a vehicle that would perform similarly to a 1995 Honda Civic's level, that car would be light as hell. Also, HSS, VHSS and UHSS aren't actually very much heavier than mild steel.
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Apr 26, 2012 05:02
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Fo3 posted:They probably don't expect any g6e buyers to opt for the ecoboost. XR6 non-turbo is the best selling Falcon though. Nobody buys the XT because it's for taxis and fleets. If you go to the dealer and buy a single car then a XR6 non-turbo is the same price or cheaper than an XT. Fo3 posted:Then of course the I6 will die, the falcon will die and they will only sell FWD family cars and no one will care, because the RWD falcon, or for that matter a large 4dr family car RWD sedan, is an orphan and it's days are numbered. And then ford will die in Australia because everything else from ford is imported and who gives a crap, may as well buy the mazda version of whatever they sell. Yeah, pretty much spot on here.
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Apr 26, 2012 05:12
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Left Ventricle posted:Corollary to that is, does the door still close manually if the auto pull fails in some way? I hope it does. My brother's '90 Deville has one of those for the trunk, and when it failed in the down position, the trunk wouldn't close at all. Had to hold it shut with a bungee. Then I got a motor from the junkyard, put it on, and it failed in the up position very shortly. At least it closes, but it has a gap that makes it look like it isn't. My late 90s Nissan station wagon had one of those retarded auto closers on the tailgate - it'd get stuck in the closed mode at the most inopportune times, typically right before you needed to load a refrigerator or similarly bulky item. Much more trouble than it was worth. ~Coxy posted:XR6 non-turbo is the best selling Falcon though. Nobody buys the XT because it's for taxis and fleets. If you go to the dealer and buy a single car then a XR6 non-turbo is the same price or cheaper than an XT. Are fleets still buying the Falcon in Australia? Over in NZ they've been almost entirely replaced with the Focus and Mondeo (or Mazda 3 and 6) or possibly diesel Hyundais and Volkswagens.
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Apr 26, 2012 05:25
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If you were to use the construction techniques used in, for example, a Volkswagen Tiguan, and only had to build a vehicle that would perform similarly to a 1995 Honda Civic's level, that car would be light as hell. To be fair though, Honda's of that era were some of the most unsafe vehicles on the road (and it gets much worse as you go older), excluding some outliers. A1 Chassis VWs are 20 years older than said Civic and still managed to outperform in safety tests. That said, a Mk1 Scirocco only weighs ~2100 lbs, with fluids and occupants, so I would love to see how ridiculously light you could get it, building one using modern materials.
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Apr 26, 2012 06:28
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The King of Swag posted:To be fair though, Honda's of that era were some of the most unsafe vehicles on the road (and it gets much worse as you go older), excluding some outliers. A1 Chassis VWs are 20 years older than said Civic and still managed to outperform in safety tests. That said, a Mk1 Scirocco only weighs ~2100 lbs, with fluids and occupants, so I would love to see how ridiculously light you could get it, building one using modern materials. Depends on what model you're talking about - the EK was if anything an above average performer for the age and size group. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDYyAd0yZyo
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Apr 26, 2012 06:36
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dissss posted:Depends on what model you're talking about - the EK was if anything an above average performer for the age and size group. True, but they tested a sixth generation Civic while a 95 would be a fifth generation. The late nineties is when Honda really started to get their act together in terms of crash safety, so I would expect the sixth generation civic to perform better.
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Apr 26, 2012 06:43
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dissss posted:Are fleets still buying the Falcon in Australia? Over in NZ they've been almost entirely replaced with the Focus and Mondeo (or Mazda 3 and 6) or possibly diesel Hyundais and Volkswagens. Yeah, but Hyundai seems to be making in-roads into the fleet market. Ford and Holden still offer massive fleet discounts, my dad is due a new car on lease soon and is considering a Passat, but is still considering staying with Holden and getting an SS-V because the fleet discount means he can get a fully-loaded one whereas with the Passat he'd have to decide which engine and interior options he wants.
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Apr 26, 2012 06:44
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The King of Swag posted:True, but they tested a sixth generation Civic while a 95 would be a fifth generation. The late nineties is when Honda really started to get their act together in terms of crash safety, so I would expect the sixth generation civic to perform better. 95 was a changeover year here, most of the production was EKs Anyway an according to NHTSA the EG and mark 3 Jetta are both 3 star cars - not good but for from the most unsafe vehicles on the road at the time and definitely miles ahead of a mark 1 Jetta.
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Apr 26, 2012 06:53
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The King of Swag posted:To be fair though, Honda's of that era were some of the most unsafe vehicles on the road (and it gets much worse as you go older), excluding some outliers. A1 Chassis VWs are 20 years older than said Civic and still managed to outperform in safety tests. That said, a Mk1 Scirocco only weighs ~2100 lbs, with fluids and occupants, so I would love to see how ridiculously light you could get it, building one using modern materials. I bet you could make it hilariously light, considering you can find extremely light modern engines making more power than the Scirocco's four cyl, and that cuts down on your materials use throughout.
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Apr 26, 2012 12:17
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For all of the whining about how cars like the Toyota Camry are no fun to drive compared to other cars in the same segment, I would like to see a comparison test between midsize models with equal wheel and tire setups and equal rear sway bars. These upgrades are easy as pie and I bet the differences between the cars' handling would practically disappear.
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Apr 26, 2012 13:57
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:A lot of the poo poo you posted here is wrong. Materials used in vehicles are neither cheaper nor heavier. If anything, materials are lighter and more expensive, vehicles just require more of them to perform to current standards. If you were to use the construction techniques used in, for example, a Volkswagen Tiguan, and only had to build a vehicle that would perform similarly to a 1995 Honda Civic's level, that car would be light as hell. Yea, cars will generally weigh a certain amount for total overall length. Manufacturers have been able to put in way more stuff and manage to keep around the same weight because of material improvements. One of the bigger factors in cars getting heavier is they are getting bigger in dimensions, a new 5 is about as big as an older 7 and they weigh pretty much the same. My S2000 is about the same size as a del sol but only weighs 300lbs more and has a windshield that can support the weight of the car, unlike a del sol. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Apr 26, 2012 |
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Apr 26, 2012 14:23
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dissss posted:Are fleets still buying the Falcon in Australia? Over in NZ they've been almost entirely replaced with the Focus and Mondeo (or Mazda 3 and 6) or possibly diesel Hyundais and Volkswagens. That is just depressing 
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Apr 26, 2012 14:44
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PBCrunch posted:For all of the whining about how cars like the Toyota Camry are no fun to drive compared to other cars in the same segment, I would like to see a comparison test between midsize models with equal wheel and tire setups and equal rear sway bars. These upgrades are easy as pie and I bet the differences between the cars' handling would practically disappear. I dunno. The 07 Camry I had had no steering feel and really did understeer horrendously. If the Mazda 6 is rated as fun to drive, I would think those things get even better if tires and sway bars were free to set up.
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Apr 26, 2012 15:59
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PBCrunch posted:For all of the whining about how cars like the Toyota Camry are no fun to drive compared to other cars in the same segment, I would like to see a comparison test between midsize models with equal wheel and tire setups and equal rear sway bars. These upgrades are easy as pie and I bet the differences between the cars' handling would practically disappear. But that doesn't fix the vague disconnected-feeling power steering which is just a part of the very obvious design criteria to generally separate the driver from anything that could be considered a connection with the environment outside of the car. They are what they are. And they obviously did a drat good job of catering to what is quite a large target market. Why fight against what the thing was obviously well designed to be?
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Apr 26, 2012 16:03
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Yeah a car being "fun to drive" and actual handling performance or track times are sort of different things, although there's overlap.
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Apr 26, 2012 17:05
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Powershift posted:I sat in a new BMW 6 series at the auto show here, you just touch the door to the catch and a little eletric motor goes "BRRRRRRRRRT" and finishes shutting the door for you. Like luxury car trunks and stuff. A lot of Mercs have had that feature for years. Definitly cool, but I agree, what happens when it breaks? I have always heard that to own a Euro Import is to have a good extended warranty if you want it past 30K. GM and such are starting to taste like that now too. We have a Tahoe LTZ with all the bells and wistles which was great for a time, then it came down it a nasty case of WTF!?! after we let the dealership change the oil. No idea what they touched or if it is even related, but now the stabilitrack light will come on randomly (and cause leaving the line to be an almost neck breaking experience), wipers will randomly come on and spray the windows, check engine light will come on and throw some random code, etc. Has been with GM for the past month and even with replaced Modules/Comps, they can't even figure it out. It is under an extended warranty and I believe that keeps them from having to buy it back or anything. Still sucks that they have to keep it on file and are talking to head techs, but still have no fix yet. Electronic gizmo's are awesome when they work, but when they don't.. drat. EdEddnEddy fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Apr 26, 2012 |
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Apr 26, 2012 18:03
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I think that's just GM having lovely control software. My dad's Traverse is also plagued with random control issues. All windows will randomly roll down when the car is at highway speed. The headlights occasionally blink off and then back on again. Finally, it has occasionally flat out failed to start unless the battery is disconnected/reconnected. They've never been able to find anything wrong with it.
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Apr 26, 2012 18:38
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dissss posted:The only way to go is forward from their current models: Ok, so this is all I see.
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Apr 26, 2012 18:44
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In other news... uh, holy poo poo http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/26/2013-ford-shelby-gt500-certified-at-662-hp-and-630-pound-feet/ quote:When Ford announced that the 2013 Shelby GT500 would be punishing the pavement with 650 horses, the world stood up and took notice. Remember, though, these were just estimated figures, as the car had not yet been SAE certified. If reports from the Team Shelby message board prove accurate, the 2013 GT500 has finally gotten its official figures.
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Apr 26, 2012 22:13
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Hog Obituary posted:In other news... uh, holy poo poo Nice. Gotta love that is all covered under a factory warranty, 200MPH for under $55K (MSRP)
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Apr 26, 2012 22:34
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From AB regarding the new GT500:quote:*UPDATE: We've received an official press release from Ford quoting power figures of 662 horsepower and 631 pound-feet of torque, making the 2013 Ford Shelby GT500's engine the most powerful production V8 in the world. Ford is also keen to point out that the 2013 GT500 is one mpg more fuel efficient, both city and highway, than the 2012 model and five mpg better than the Camaro ZL1. These are truly magical times we are living in.
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Apr 26, 2012 22:43
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dissss posted:Are fleets still buying the Falcon in Australia? Over in NZ they've been almost entirely replaced with the Focus and Mondeo (or Mazda 3 and 6) or possibly diesel Hyundais and Volkswagens. They sold about a million for CHOGM! 
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Apr 27, 2012 04:42
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SouthLAnd posted:From AB regarding the new GT500: I think Ford employs some sort of wizard that grants them excellent fuel economy. The numbers I get from my Mustang, real-world, driving without much care for fuel economy, are still better than competitor's lab numbers. Even against lighter, less powerful cars. These are indeed magical times.
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Apr 27, 2012 04:53
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I love it, but it does feel more and more like a dinosaur. The ZL1 has got the latest generation magnetic shocks and some wider tires. I bet it'd feel more confident and controllable to the stereotype old guy who wants the top dog muscle car.GM engineering posted:When asked point-blank if he thought the ZL1 would be quicker around the 'Ring, Oppenheiser replied, "No question." e: awesome, you can throw your tiny voice into a Ford social media app about the issue: http://social.ford.com/your-ideas/technologies/performance/gt500-rear-tire-width/ ...if you sign up
kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Apr 27, 2012 |
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Apr 27, 2012 05:14
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sanchez posted:That is just depressing Honestly if I had to choose a company that I'd need to spend a lot of time in it'd be a diesel Mondeo over a Falcon - its just a better appliance with much better economy.
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Apr 27, 2012 07:01
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dissss posted:Honestly if I had to choose a company that I'd need to spend a lot of time in it'd be a diesel Mondeo over a Falcon - its just a better appliance with much better economy. I know, but a couple of generations of my family grew up being dragged around by Falcons, it's just sad to see that come to an end. The I6 layout is the best layout also.
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Apr 27, 2012 14:01
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So I just got back from the Beijing Auto Show. Ford Ecosport. The exterior wasn't that interesting so I got a pic of the bottom, showing a twist beast rear suspension similar to a Fiesta.  3 cyl turbo engine.   JAC motors. I forget what this thing was called, felt like an old Hyundai, had a 4AT I think.   JAC sports car.   Small JAC SUV  JAC "Green Jet" diesel engine.   Small JAC hatch   JAC developed 6 speed DSG. I tried to stick to the Chinese domestic maruqes but it was all pretty boring lovely cars with cheap interiors.       New Hyundai Azera. the interior was quite nice.  The back of the Veloster turbo. You gain quite a bit of head room by opening the hatch.  Pinifarina concept. Most of the exterior styling work for the Chinese domestic marques are done by Pinifarina and other Italian design studios.  "Lotus". This is actually legit - the British carmaker Lotus is owned by Malaysian carmaker Proton, and they sell Protons under the Lotus brand, with this funny looking badge. As you can see below.....     Various Lotus cars.  Engine.   Luxgen, which I think is some Taiwanese joint venture company.   Dead axle? rear suspension.  ILX     Peugeot 308 and 508.  508 wagon diesel hybrid  308 CC. Interior was all right.  "Xenon"  Citroen concept.     Citroen C4. Love the hub on the steering wheel.   A cut away PSA engine that appears to be leaking oil all over the display case.   Some kind of mild belt alternator type hybrid turbo engine. On to Dongfeng. DF is the JV partner for PSA so they were together.  Dongfeng A60. I think this is an old Nissan or some poo poo. They had some other cars but I fell asleep looking at them except for...      I think these are based off the HMMMV that DF got from ther joint venture with AM General, with a joint venture Cummins diesel. They...probably could have done without knocking off the (GM) Hummer H2 wheels. They were tapped off in a corner so I couldn't get inside for interior shots. Off to Britain!  SAIC pretty much had a whole half of a wing to themselves, with MG and Roewe taking up a shitload of space.   MG cars  Inside  MG Icon concept  They had a presentation where a guy in a bowtie was comparing many design cues of the new MG Icon concept to design cues from 1970s MGs, the golden age of British cars.     Roewe 950. This was originally going to be based off a W124 E-class, with a MB straight 6 engine, that SAIC got from their stake in Ssangyong, who had been making them as the Ssangyong Chairman. Now it's just a rebadged buick Lacrosse. Ssangyong had a display their too, with a Chairman, but for some reason it was really crowded there (I thought the loving company was already bankruopt?) and I got bored. More to come! Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Apr 27, 2012 |
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Apr 27, 2012 14:11
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Throatwarbler posted:
Looks like an old Hyundai Grandeur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Grandeur#Fourth_generation_.282006-2011.29
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Apr 27, 2012 14:31
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The thing that gets me, even though the target market may not care, is that cars like the Vette, and Camaro could get some good MPG if they just put their V4 Mode in those cars. While on a Truck/SUV, the drat things are to heavy to pull themselves in V4 mode, while a Vette could easily cruise at 80+ with it. Outside of it looking bad to have in a Vette, what else would be keeping them from doing this? (or is it impossible to have reliably in a HO engine?) Also that MG concept looks like crap in those pics. The Body isn't bad but the tire/wheel/ridehight looks horrid.
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Apr 27, 2012 17:20
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What is it with people's obsession with giant oversized wheels and ride height?
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Apr 27, 2012 17:36
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Cream_Filling posted:What is it with people's obsession with giant oversized wheels and ride height? Oversized? The wheel is fine, but make it fit properly. That car looks like an MG 4X4 and it needs a taller tire.
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Apr 27, 2012 17:43
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EdEddnEddy posted:Oversized? The wheel is fine, but make it fit properly. That car looks like an MG 4X4 and it needs a taller tire. Looks pretty normal to me. It's a crossover. Also, filling the wheel wells isn't exactly a good thing.
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Apr 27, 2012 17:55
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Cream_Filling posted:Looks pretty normal to me. It's a crossover. Well being that it is trying to be a SUV in a way, then it makes sense, but still has to thin of tires to make the ride quality/ground clearance make sense. I thought most all MG's were supposed to be more roadcar/roadsters? That thing is trying to hard to be something wonky IMO. Maybe it is just the pic.
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Apr 27, 2012 18:00
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EdEddnEddy posted:While on a Truck/SUV, the drat things are to heavy to pull themselves in V4 mode, Since when? My buddy's 2010-ish Suburban gets a good old 12 or so in town and something crazily higher like 26 on the highway because of whatever Chevy calls their system of shutting down some cylinders during cruising.
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Apr 27, 2012 18:01
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EdEddnEddy posted:Well being that it is trying to be a SUV in a way, then it makes sense, but still has to thin of tires to make the ride quality/ground clearance make sense. Not since BMW sold them to the Chinese, who don't give a gently caress. I'm also just sick of the billions of comments on other forums where people bitch about wheel gap on production or even concept cars. It's a stupid aesthetic and a dumb thing to obsess about.
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Apr 27, 2012 18:06
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Motronic posted:Since when? My buddy's 2010-ish Suburban gets a good old 12 or so in town and something crazily higher like 26 on the highway because of whatever Chevy calls their system of shutting down some cylinders during cruising. Can he really back up that 26 number? Our Tahoe LTZ gets like an average of 13 at best. Sure it can throw a number like 26 up for whatever time it is in V4 mode, but it is never long enough to actually help.
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Apr 27, 2012 18:12
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EdEddnEddy posted:Can he really back up that 26 number? Our Tahoe LTZ gets like an average of 13 at best. Sure it can throw a number like 26 up for whatever time it is in V4 mode, but it is never long enough to actually help. I was with him/following him. Coming east on the PA turnpike with the cruise control on, not through the mountains (the eastern half). This was on the way back with the truck from a dealer in Ohio where he just bought it. We couldn't believe the instant MPG so we filled up, drove a hundred miles and filled up again to double check. I'm not saying 26 is typical, but it's an indication of what is possible and the fact that you CAN shut cylinders down on trucks and SUVs, which was why I responded to the post.
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Apr 27, 2012 18:35
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Motronic posted:whatever Chevy calls their system of shutting down some cylinders during cruising. EdEddnEddy posted:Outside of it looking bad to have in a Vette, what else would be keeping them from doing this? (or is it impossible to have reliably in a HO engine?) It might be a man-tran thing. All the current SRT-8's with the 6.4L have MDS except the man-tran challenger. Same with the 5.7 man-tran in the challenger. There were some people complaining about potential lag if they put it in the 6.1/6.4 but I never noticed it while driving the older 5.7 charger/300's.
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Apr 27, 2012 19:05
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The auto V8 Camaro does have MDS, as did the auto V8 G8 when they made it. It doesn't really help that much, but they sell enough auto Camaros for it to be a factor for CAFE. Corvette not so much.
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Apr 28, 2012 00:21
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