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Pfirti86 posted:Also, what's a shisha party? That sounds fun. It's pot, no one was smoking shisha with that hookah
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Apr 27, 2012 13:25
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Pfirti86 posted:Yeah, I was confused by that too. I thought maybe it meant he was a 2:1 in one subject and a first in the other. Most Americans don't know poo poo about the British academic honors system. I had no idea he was suspended. Aren't honors awarded based on how well you do on a series of final exams? Like, couldn't he be academic poo poo the whole time, then study really hard, then pass with a decent enough degree (a 2:1 isn't terrible right?)? The exact makeup of the grade varies amongst Universities, however it is normally based on final exams from honours courses (the courses included in the named title of the degree, which could be from the final and/or penultimate year) plus the dissertation grade. Here is a list of the grades, with some further explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification The key idea is that the grade reflects the overall performance in the named subjects of the degree. Getting a 1st in one course is nice, but it isn't something which you would put in a press release. Bo Guagua might be a fairly typical overprivileged kid, but this kind of scrutiny is the only opportunity the Chinese public have to vet their future leaders, so don't blame them for behaving like a pack of eager hounds.
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Apr 27, 2012 13:31
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Chen Guangcheng seems to have escaped house arrest in Beijing and rumor is that he's hiding in the US embassy. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/28/world/asia/chen-guangcheng-blind-lawyer-escapes-house-arrest-china.html
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Apr 27, 2012 19:23
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Xandu posted:Chen Guangcheng seems to have escaped house arrest in Beijing and rumor is that he's hiding in the US embassy. Was about to post on this. Good for him. If even half of the stuff he alleges is true it's pretty despicable. I hope the US embassy has the moral courage to continue to protect him. His family is in my thoughts right now, especially his wife and daughter.
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Apr 27, 2012 20:54
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Pfirti86 posted:Guagua Bo put out a statement through the Harvard Crimson (http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/4/24/bo-guagua-statement-to-the-crimson/): I have never driven a Ferrari! (it's a Porsche, you ignorant peasants). My studies are funded by scholarships! (By companies based in the city where my dad was mayor, as if this wasn't a well-known form of graft in China). I maybe have some tiny bit of sympathy for him, but at best he's Carmella Soprano, willfully overlooking where his good life comes from. Fiendish_Ghoul fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Apr 27, 2012 |
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Apr 27, 2012 21:09
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I can't see the US getting involved here for our blind friend. Sweden or Norway would seem more likely as foreign embassy safehavens.
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Apr 27, 2012 21:10
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TheBuilder posted:I can't see the US getting involved here for our blind friend. Sweden or Norway would seem more likely as foreign embassy safehavens. I wonder if the government of Norway would be eager to do something that would actually legitimately piss China off (not that it isn't the right thing to do) after China's little tantrum after Liu Xiaobo got the Nobel Peace Prize. They still aren't over that.
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Apr 27, 2012 21:14
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Fiendish_Ghoul posted:I wonder if the government of Norway would be eager to do something that would actually legitimately piss China off (not that it isn't the right thing to do) after China's little tantrum after Liu Xiaobo got the Nobel Peace Prize. They still aren't over that. Man, I hope I'm in the running for a Confucius Peace Prize this year. Are they still giving that out? TheBuilder posted:I can't see the US getting involved here for our blind friend. Sweden or Norway would seem more likely as foreign embassy safehavens. He's reportedly not seeking asylum, but just wants a position to negotiate with the Chinese government for humane treatment of him and his family. Of course, fat chance of that. This is just another embarrassment for the government already dealing with the Bo incident, and there's no way they'd let him live a 'normal' life like he's demanding. Foyes36 fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Apr 27, 2012 |
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Apr 27, 2012 21:21
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TheBuilder posted:I can't see the US getting involved here for our blind friend. Sweden or Norway would seem more likely as foreign embassy safehavens. Uh why not? This would be a great PR coup for the US. Hujia: Chen Guangcheng is at the American embassy in China."
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Apr 27, 2012 22:06
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Well, I am glad to be wrong. Its a good move, but I am sorry for the feelings of so many Chinese people that we have hurt. 
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Apr 27, 2012 22:21
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Looking forward to seeing if they think they can keep this quiet or go on the offensive to try to paint him as a running dog of western imperialists. Unfortunately, it could very well be the latter, as he has apparently received some kind of foreign funding: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/07/AR2006070701510_2.html?sid=ST2010090903263 The fact that 99% of Chinese people will probably never have heard of him until the People's Daily and Global Times come out blustering about the US harboring a CONVICTED CRIMINAL who received funding from HOSTILE FOREIGN FORCES will probably let the propaganda apparatus smear him fairly effectively with a lot of people.
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Apr 27, 2012 22:38
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:It's pot, no one was smoking shisha with that hookah
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Apr 27, 2012 22:48
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Fiendish_Ghoul posted:I have never driven a Ferrari! (it's a Porsche, you ignorant peasants). My studies are funded by scholarships! (By companies based in the city where my dad was mayor, as if this wasn't a well-known form of graft in China). I maybe have some tiny bit of sympathy for him, but at best he's Carmella Soprano, willfully overlooking where his good life comes from. Is it common for public figures to openly brag about their scholarly achievements? I can't imagine any US politician bragging about getting straight A's, even if you ignore anti-intellectualism; it's sort of a social taboo to talk about how elite you are, largely because it's common knowledge that those sorts of accomplishments are mostly limited to people born into privilege (not to mention the fact that being humble is considered a virtue).
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Apr 27, 2012 23:53
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Pfirti86 posted:
Is it even possible for him to be given asylum at this point? I mean how would they get him out of the country, in a gigantic diplomatic pouch?
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Apr 28, 2012 01:54
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Vladimir Putin posted:Is it even possible for him to be given asylum at this point? I mean how would they get him out of the country, in a gigantic diplomatic pouch? It'd be tricky for sure. I'm no wonk, but I imagine that if forced they could negotiate some sort of deal where he'd be allowed to leave with his family if he agreed to never try and come back. Maybe?
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Apr 28, 2012 02:26
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Ytlaya posted:Is it common for public figures to openly brag about their scholarly achievements? I can't imagine any US politician bragging about getting straight A's, even if you ignore anti-intellectualism; it's sort of a social taboo to talk about how elite you are, largely because it's common knowledge that those sorts of accomplishments are mostly limited to people born into privilege (not to mention the fact that being humble is considered a virtue).
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Apr 28, 2012 03:00
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Fiendish_Ghoul posted:Looking forward to seeing if they think they can keep this quiet or go on the offensive to try to paint him as a running dog of western imperialists. Unfortunately, it could very well be the latter, as he has apparently received some kind of foreign funding: At least the Chinese Netizens know about him. It's disgusting that they are treating his family like that. Disgusting. I hope his family are treated well.
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Apr 28, 2012 03:25
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Ytlaya posted:Is it common for public figures to openly brag about their scholarly achievements? I can't imagine any US politician bragging about getting straight A's, even if you ignore anti-intellectualism; it's sort of a social taboo to talk about how elite you are, largely because it's common knowledge that those sorts of accomplishments are mostly limited to people born into privilege (not to mention the fact that being humble is considered a virtue). Chinese like to brag about their academic achievements, especially the parents but not in terms of bragging about it to the media. Then again there was a lot of pressure on the Bo's by the media to disclose how his son was able to go to all those expensive schools and drive all those expensive cars. Chinese also like to flash their bling too.
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Apr 28, 2012 04:39
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Ronald Spiers posted:Chinese like to brag about their academic achievements, especially the parents but not in terms of bragging about it to the media. Then again there was a lot of pressure on the Bo's by the media to disclose how his son was able to go to all those expensive schools and drive all those expensive cars. Chinese also like to flash their bling too.
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Apr 28, 2012 05:14
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Modus Operandi posted:This kid is getting poo poo on for the sins of his father (and mother) though. He's doing better than most over privileged Chinese princelings who don't even bother most of the time. You really can't just fluke your way into a Harvard master's program either. Are you sure most 2nd generation Chinese princelings are doing worse than Guagua? Xi Jinping's daughter is also in Harvard and has kept a low-profile. Let us not forget how Guagua was able to get such a life... from the ill-gotten gains of his parents!
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Apr 28, 2012 05:30
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Ronald Spiers posted:Are you sure most 2nd generation Chinese princelings are doing worse than Guagua? Xi Jinping's daughter is also in Harvard and has kept a low-profile. So? You could say that about the vast majority of upper class white kids in ivy leagues in the U.S. He doesn't deserve what he's getting unless he's personally been a twat about it or complicit in some of the crimes. Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Apr 28, 2012 |
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Apr 28, 2012 06:30
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Modus Operandi posted:So? You could say that about the vast majority of upper class white kids in ivy leagues in the U.S. He doesn't deserve what he's getting unless he's personally been a twat about it or complicit in some of the crimes. His parents are enemies to the state, this label should be handed from parents to children unless the child clearly demarcates between him and his parents with public denouncement of the state-enemy parents.
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Apr 28, 2012 06:58
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Ronald Spiers posted:His parents are enemies to the state, this label should be handed from parents to children unless the child clearly demarcates between him and his parents with public denouncement of the state-enemy parents.
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Apr 28, 2012 07:07
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Modus Operandi posted:Why should it be handed down to the children unless they are also criminally complicit? That's silly. Are you a big fan of collective responsibility? I support the questioning of authority within this context of highly limited speech and political feudalism, even if it is limited to someone who is on the periphery of the main event. On his own account, Bo Guagua is certainly an example of a growing social problem within China; of a "Communist Aristocracy" which is becoming increasingly abusive of its position. The lack of decorum (and I choose this word specifically) which Bo Guagua demonstrated is very insulting to Chinese people. He breaks the unspoken contract which the Communist Party has made with its people. For a corollary: http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/stories/nepotism-wang-ran-government-deputy-bureau-chief.html
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Apr 28, 2012 09:57
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GuestBob posted:I support the questioning of authority within this context of highly limited speech and political feudalism, even if it is limited to someone who is on the periphery of the main event. With that being said Bo Guagua is a college kid studying abroad. Is he being groomed for such a vaunted position in the PRC as the girl you mentioned above? Possibly but until it happens and he's put into some government chair that he's vastly unqualified for there's no reason to crucify him over simply being born from a well to do family. The thing is he's not doing anything abnormally corrupt or living any kind of decadent life style different from what your average U.S. college kid.
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Apr 28, 2012 10:09
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Modus Operandi posted:Nepotism is unfortunate but this isn't a China problem but a global issue. Just look at the sort of multi-generational control various anglo blue blood families have historically had (and still have) in the world of global banking. He is the third generation of a family which has held major political power since the beginning of Communist China - he is not average in any way. His peers are not the average bunch of Ivy league trust fund twats, they are people like Prince William and the sons of tinpot African dictators. It is [ill gotten] public money which put Bo Xilai's son where he is so why don't the public have a right to comment? GuestBob fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Apr 28, 2012 |
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Apr 28, 2012 10:35
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Hit quote instead of edit - laggy connection.
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Apr 28, 2012 10:38
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Let us not forget the extent of the ill gotten money... money so ill gotten to kill for. Guagua needs to go back to China and give back the money his parents stole from the people.
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Apr 28, 2012 10:50
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I guess I just don't believe in hunting down the children or the children's children of despotic bureaucrats and making them pay with punitive measures or blood like it's ancient Rome. Collective responsibility is nonsense. Good luck with that because so many people in the world have benefited greatly from their ancestor's misdeeds.
Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Apr 28, 2012 |
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Apr 28, 2012 11:14
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GuestBob posted:He is the third generation of a family which has held major political power since the beginning of Communist China - he is not average in any way. His peers are not the average bunch of Ivy league trust fund twats, they are people like Prince William and the sons of tinpot African dictators. The public have a right to comment, but it is a bit unfair to tar and feather Bo Guagua when he has essentially known no other lifestyle and wasn't responsible for receiving the money in the first place, however much he probably should have figured out from living in these Western college towns that his lifestyle was pretty excessive. What was he going to do? Say "gently caress YOU, dad!" to a top Party official? Bo Xilai is the person who wrongfully funneled that money to his son and the person who deserves to get crucified by public opinion about that issue, among the many others.
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Apr 28, 2012 12:51
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Pfirti86 posted:He's reportedly not seeking asylum, but just wants a position to negotiate with the Chinese government for humane treatment of him and his family. Of course, fat chance of that. This is just another embarrassment for the government already dealing with the Bo incident, and there's no way they'd let him live a 'normal' life like he's demanding. I wouldn't be so sure. The Chinese government doesn't want a martyr at a sensitive time like this, and so far the guy has done everything right in terms of blaming the local authority and appealing to Wen Jiabao to take control. And thus far official statements have been very quiet. I imagine there's some careful discussions right now as to how to handle this. A Wukan style deal may well come. I don't read the Bo incident as an embarrassment. Rather it has been a managed set of events that have enabled Beijing to remove a potential threat while retaining - even gaining public and international backing.
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Apr 28, 2012 18:01
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:edit: this is seriously one of those things that you can't rely on wikipedia for any real information at all. Fighting with the 轮子 is futile as there is literally an entire swarm of them out there determined to force their bullshit. Basically every single thing they reference is a FLG website. You can fight, sure, but they have a few admins in their pocket and you'll just get yourself banned... then they'll dig into all your other articles and screw with them. It would be funny if it wasn't so loving creepy.
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Apr 28, 2012 22:57
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Jazerus posted:...Say "gently caress YOU, dad!"... I expect him to do what a good young Communist princeling should do, wear his red neckerchief, study hard and provide the public with the appearance of merit which justifies his charmed existence. That's the price one pays for inheriting power in a one party state. This isn't some kind of witch hunt or populist persecution. This is a debatable extension of legitimate public interest.
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Apr 29, 2012 08:24
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Modus Operandi posted:I guess I just don't believe in hunting down the children or the children's children of despotic bureaucrats and making them pay with punitive measures or blood like it's ancient Rome. Collective responsibility is nonsense. Good luck with that because so many people in the world have benefited greatly from their ancestor's misdeeds. I haven't seen a shred of evidence Bo Guoguo is a good student. I don't see the point of derailing the thread. Fangz posted:I wouldn't be so sure. The Chinese government doesn't want a martyr at a sensitive time like this, and so far the guy has done everything right in terms of blaming the local authority and appealing to Wen Jiabao to take control. And thus far official statements have been very quiet. I imagine there's some careful discussions right now as to how to handle this. A Wukan style deal may well come. quote:I don't read the Bo incident as an embarrassment. Rather it has been a managed set of events that have enabled Beijing to remove a potential threat while retaining - even gaining public and international backing. I agree. It was set in motion some time last year (remember Bo Guoguo was dating Chen Yun's granddaughter and they splitted last year. The original plan was to use Wang Lijun to get Bo. A lot of Wang's men in Liaoling were investigated. They were going to nail Wang very soon. The goal was to make Wang talk as Bo's hitman and bring Bo down. The surprise was that 1) Bo was so stupid he refused to protect Wang, someone who kenw too much (and tried to "send" Wang to a mental hospital) 2) Bo and Wang start go at each other before the 18th Communist Congress. 3) Wang talked into American Embassy, which was a genius move. In retrospect, it was the only way to make sure him and his family's safety. 4) And the last surprise was that Bo family actually killed someone and Wang obtained the evidence. (Reportedly it was a piece of the body of that 007 dude.) So the parts about embassy and Heywood really gave the anti-Bo fractions more bullet to shoot but it also force the power straggle to come to the surface. Originally they probably wanted to use some "economic issues" to make Bo "retire" early. But now Bo could go the jail. His wife is definitely going to jail. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Apr 29, 2012 |
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Apr 29, 2012 17:42
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My parents are watching an old documentary on Guoguo. He's telling a weepy tale about how he could never get enough to eat while at Harrow.
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Apr 29, 2012 17:49
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whatever7 posted:
The dude has been imprisoned for years and been under illegal house arrest for a year and a half, his case has almost certainly been raised with people from Beijing multiple times and he's been in the news frequently over the last few years. Beijing has had plenty of opportunities to do something about CGC and they chose not to do anything, this isn't some thing where local offices hosed it up and Beijing was caught by surprise- I mean Christian Bale getting manhandled last year made international news for shits sake, and they did exactly nothing afterwards. Sure, the local guys are the active antagonists here, but they're playing by rules written and signed off on in Beijing, because this is the way Beijing wants the game to be played.
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Apr 29, 2012 21:14
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Like with Wukan, there's what the situation actually was. Then there is what the CCP prefers the situation to look like. And finally, there's what the situation might become. These are three different things. Beijing might well have known and allowed CGC's situation for a variety of reasons, but allowing Beijing to reframe the narrative as 'oh we didn't know' is this guy's best chance.
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Apr 30, 2012 06:50
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Fangz posted:My parents are watching an old documentary on Guoguo. He's telling a weepy tale about how he could never get enough to eat while at Harrow. Not surprising considering how difficult it is to launder money to the UK. Also the Guardian has a nice article about Chinese feudalism. Ronald Spiers fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Apr 30, 2012 |
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Apr 30, 2012 08:12
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By any chance, can anyone recommend any good books / blogs / documentaries / whatever that go into detail about living and working conditions for employees at Foxconn, treatment of labour disputes by the company and the expansion of export processing zones in mainland China? I ask because This American Life ended up having to retract their story on it, and I want to make sure that any source I use is definitely credible! Any suggestions gratefully received.
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May 1, 2012 20:52
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Do you want Foxconn specifically or factory workers in general? "Factory Girls" by Leslie Chang provides a really interesting, personalized (she literally sits down with them for noodles and such) perspective on 1990s Guangdong factory life. e: I just saw you mentioned reliable sources, so this book might be too far from your topic, but it is still really interesting!
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May 1, 2012 22:39
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