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RazorBunny posted:I guess I remembered wrong, I thought there was dry dog food in there somewhere. I may very well have included dog food in some of my posts about what I feed over the years, because I occasionally do include it. That diet outline is overly limited and specific because people freak out if I don't give them something very specific to follow. In reality, it can all be reduced to "feed a variety of grains as a base. Offer a variety of fruits and vegetables daily. Include animal protein a few times a week." Dog food can definitely be included, but I would specifically use something high carb, low protein- pretty much the opposite of what you have on hand for Husker and the cats.  High protein often leads to kidney issues in male rats and will make them greasier. Females are more able to handle high protein kibbles, but don't really need it unless they're pregnant or nursing and it would probably make them fat. If you do decide to include kibble in a mix, I'd get some very high carb/low cal senior formula. Actually, most vegetarian kibbles, while being inappropriate for the species they're meant for, work very well for rats. Natural Balance makes a vegetarian kibble that would probably be a decent addition to a grain mix. Edit: oh man I just realized what you're probably thinking of right before I hit post. There was a discussion somewhere in this thread or the last one where I got mad about lab blocks again, and we discussed using dog biscuits as a replacement for blocks. Something like Wellness Wellbars (I think that's what they're called?) or those Blue Buffalo biscuits would work very well as a base- while not a complete diet like lab blocks, the ingredients are higher quality, they're grain based (like blocks), they're just as convenient, and if you offer variety they could easily be a preferable alternative to lab blocks.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:42
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I did feed the Blue Buffalo bars to van Buren for the last few months of his life, but I was actually thinking of kibble. I don't think I'll bother with dog food if the stuff I keep on hand now isn't going to work. Most likely they would get their animal protein from whatever I'm serving the people in the house. We eat a pretty balanced array of meat, poultry, and fish ourselves, and lots of veggies, so they would probably eat fairly well just from trimmings and leftovers. We don't eat a lot of carbs ourselves, but I always have a pretty wide variety in the pantry for when I do want to serve a carb-heavy food, so I don't think I would need to change my shopping list too much - just might have to buy grains more often than I do now. Might toss in a dog kibble or two as a treat here and there, or a smidge of the cats' stinky wet food. We also tend to have a lot of cooked bones around the house, and since I can't give them to Husker, and I can only make so much soup stock, I'm sure a few will find their way into the rat cage. VB used to go apeshit when I brought home a couple of pork rib bones from a barbecue place. Don't worry about me in terms of specifics, once I've got my head around the basics of what they need, I shouldn't have any issues. I'm as much of a geek about people nutrition as you are about animal nutrition, so it's not a big deal to apply that to them. I think I was operating under the assumption that they needed a higher protein content than they do, so I'm adjusting my thinking accordingly. It's all an intellectual exercise at the moment, but I'm one of those people who likes to chew things over in my head for a long time before I actually do it.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:51
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RazorBunny posted:
Yup, this is basically how I feed my rats, especially now that I don't have a large number of them. The majority of their diet is trimmings and table scraps, and I really just keep a few grain and fruit/veg staples on hand in case I don't have much to give them that day for whatever reason. Every once in a while I'll sperg out and do a mix and carefully plan a diet for them and buy a bunch of stuff, but it never lasts and I always end up going back to just doing the kitchen scraps/leftovers thing and it works just as well.
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Apr 20, 2012 16:53
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Rats you are SO DUMB  . They took out a good third of their walls of the upstairs snak shak and now only Folly (the best rat) is willing to sleep there now. What did you expect was going to happen when you ate your home? (Picture does not show the existing door) Now that I have some free time again I'm going to pick up a bunch of new cage stuff for them from the chinchilla.ca guy. Woo! Invalid Octopus fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 01:37
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Wow, so I found a Petsmart that actually doesn't suck all the way! Here is the story of Conrad, the SIXTH rat in my life. I was watching some of the hamsters running back and forth tweaker style (one of my favorite things to do in pet stores) and I looked down and saw Conrad, older dumbo male, all alone. So I was asking one of the associates about him and immediately he said, "OMG ARE YOU INTERESTED BECAUSE HE IS AWESOME!" Taking his word with a grain of salt he took me in the back and brought out Conrad, plopped him right down in my lap, and he was the sweetest rat I've ever seen! I was shocked, so I asked him why he was so well socialized. Turns out everyone in the store loves him and plays with him all the time because he's been by himself for a little while. The sales guy then proceeded to GRILL me on how I take care of my rats. What do you feed? How much play time do they get and when. You do have all boys right? Right? ARE YOU SURE? It was amazing, I could tell he really like this fat bastard(we'll get back to that). Even more amazing, he told me that Conrad had just been fully treated for a respiratory infection... BY MY FREAKING RAT VET! He showed me the paperwork and everything! At this point my boyfriend was like oh crap, her eyes are sparkling, poo poo, get the drat rat. So I grabbed a quarantine cage and off we went! So, now my question is, Conrad is obese. Like really, really big. He wasn't getting much exercise at the pet store so I'm hoping some of my more elaborate tricks will help with that. But is there anything else I should do to help the big guy out? How much weight should a healthy rat lose in say, a month? Also, how long is it kosher to wait to introduce him to his new cagemates? How long should he be quarantined?        I included some of the not great ones just to showcase his fatness. When you pick him up, he is like 50% flub. Surprise, surprise he hates body shots, but he's a ham for the camera.
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Apr 23, 2012 04:07
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Olive Bar posted:
Look at that face  Not all chain pet stores are terrible; there is a Petco here that also uses my rat vet, and they are very good. I got a big interview when I adopted Stewart because they wanted to make sure he was going to a good home.
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Apr 23, 2012 04:34
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Yep, he had me sign a care agreement and everything! And then kissed Conrad goodbye! Edit pending, I'm going to weigh him and try to measure him.
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Apr 23, 2012 04:42
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Dunno a number as to how much weight loss in a month is healthy because I have never weighed a non pregnant rat like ever, but if he were mine I'd make his diet mainly free choice fruit and veg and then offer only verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry limited portions of whatever grain based staple you use a day. Like if you feed lab blocks, we're talking 1 or 2 lab blocks, or if you feed a grain mix, 1 or 2 tablespoons. Boiled egg white a couple times a week for protein, applesauce, low calorie baby food for soft treats, miniscule pieces of dried fruit or vegetable with no added sugar for dry treats. That's usually my gameplan for fat rats and it's served me well, YMMV. As far as quarantine goes, I'll be honest- the quarantine most rat ladies hamfist (hey, I used to do it too) is completely pointless. If you are housing rats in the same airspace (which you are, if they're in the same....house) they are not "quarantined" even if they're on opposite ends of it. Most things that can be transmitted with rats can be carried in mucous membranes or are airborne, meaning that even if rats ARE housed in separate buildings/airspaces, if you walk in one of those places and then walk to the other, surprise, you just carried everything that was present in Location A to Location B and the rats there have been exposed to it. Basically, "quarantine" in the manner that the average pet owner is capable of is largely pointless, just watch him for a couple of days and make sure he doesn't develop anything horrendous and then start intros
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Apr 23, 2012 04:50
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How do you guys go about giving your rats free, safe, explore time? Hailey, the more active of the two has made it really obvious she'd love nothing more than to explore every inch of my room and there is no way that safe for her. Too many places to hide and escape and too many things to chew. Most of the other rooms the cat could get into and I am worried that could go badly. There is the bathroom, would that be safe? They can't escape since the door only has 2mm between it and the floor. But we do clean it with hard chemicals and you can kinda smell it when you go in. One has a respiratory problem I'm treating her for. EDIT: Is it possible that rats can play sick? Bailey gets these sniffles, but they tend to disappear when I start handling her but gets them back when I leave them alone for awhile. Or could it be an allergy? Lord Windy fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 10:21
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Lord Windy posted:How do you guys go about giving your rats free, safe, explore time? Your rats are too young, and you haven't had them long enough, to free range them. Free ranging is for adult/almost adult rats who are VERY bonded to people- a young female rat that you've had for 2ish weeks is going to be as flighty as a hamster and you're gonna end up losing it in the house. For now, yeah, stick to letting them run around the bathroom/a sofa/ a bed for the next few months until they're reliably coming to you for treats when you call. Then, you'll be able to free range them in your room without having to worry about losing them, but you would still have to cover up any wires you don't want chewed. quote:EDIT: No, rats can't play sick. There could be a number of reasons why her symptoms manifest less openly when she's handled. If you're talking about just very mild sneezyness thats just coming from her nose and doesn't sound "deeper," it's probably just environmental, yeah. If it sounds like there is any mucous involved and/or she's wheezing, she is probably sick.
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Apr 23, 2012 11:41
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Thanks for the advice Super! I'll work on exercising him a bunch too. I put his food bowl up higher so he has to climb for it, and he'll be getting a ton of run around time.
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Apr 23, 2012 16:40
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I went in to check on them before going to bed for the night and they all crowded up on top of their little play area ledge to be pet and started bruxing and it was so cute how did I ever live without these guys
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Apr 24, 2012 04:11
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Ugh now that I've decided I want to have rats again it is ten times harder to be patient and wait to get them...
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Apr 25, 2012 00:08
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So I'm pretty sure Conrad has spent his whole life without rat companions. ANY time I walk into the room he is stuck to the front of the cage looking at me like an innocent man in prison. He LOVES being held. He even has a game he likes to play. He'll run away and come back real fast and tag my hand. Then he runs in circles while I "chase him" he'll even dodge and turn around and tag me every 10 seconds or so. He loves tummy rubs, which I've never experienced before. But at least I can get him running around all the time which will totally help with his weight. He is a drop dead sweetie, which is shocking because he's been living in pet stores his whole life. Edit: Okay, so there might be a problem. I had him on my shoulder when I walked past one of my other cages and he FREAKED THE gently caress OUT. If he is within reaching distance of other rats he goes evil. Not, oh lets play evil, but like, I'm gonna rip your face off death shriek evil. Is it possible that he won't be able to be housed with other rats? Can he still thrive with just a ton of human contact? Honestly, after his reaction I don't even want to try to introduce him to the rest of my rats. 
Olive Bar fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Apr 26, 2012 |
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Apr 25, 2012 21:06
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Olive Bar posted:Edit: Okay, so there might be a problem. I had him on my shoulder when I walked past one of my other cages and he FREAKED THE gently caress OUT. If he is within reaching distance of other rats he goes evil. Not, oh lets play evil, but like, I'm gonna rip your face off death shriek evil. Is it possible that he won't be able to be housed with other rats? Can he still thrive with just a ton of human contact? Honestly, after his reaction I don't even want to try to introduce him to the rest of my rats. Put his cage near the other guys so they constantly see eachother, but not so close that they can bite each other. Put a hammock or sock or something cloth in each of their cages and switch the cloths with eachother after a few days. After a couple more days, switch the rats if you can into each others cages. After another day, have them meet, supervised in neutral territory like the bathtub. Rinse and repeat if necessary. If they get along well after meeting, it can also help to clean and rearrange everything in what you want to be your main cage. So it's like a whole new area for everyone. Although this doesn't always work and he may need to be housed separately and given lots of human attention. Others may have a better way of socializing them with other rats. nunsexmonkrock fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Apr 26, 2012 |
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Apr 26, 2012 05:59
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Olive I Would just give him lots of time. He may mellow out after some time in the same room as your other boys(caged separately), once he realises they won't eat him. He sounds sweet anyway  And yes, if he is happiest alone, he will do just fine separately. He will still benefit from even being in the same general area as other rats. He sounds pretty happy to me, poor guy just probably had some bad experiences or never got much time with rat friends. Big Bug Hug fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Apr 26, 2012 |
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Apr 26, 2012 09:34
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Olive Bar posted:Also be very careful about breaking up a rat fight if it happens. Never do an introduction within a cage as it will be hard to separate them. Blood will be shed, rat blood and your blood.
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Apr 26, 2012 12:07
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I have had several male rats, even ones who were raised with other rats, who inexplicably hated other rats while absolutely adoring humans. It happens, and he'll be fine if he wants to be housed alone as long as he gets enough attention.
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Apr 26, 2012 12:21
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Thanks for the advice guys. And no worries, I did the initial introduction in my bathtub. I was quicker than I thought I had the ability to be. But if time doesn't work for him then he will be just fine. I work from home so he can tag along with me all day, which he already loves to do.
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Apr 26, 2012 18:04
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Olive Bar posted:Thanks for the advice guys. And no worries, I did the initial introduction in my bathtub. I was quicker than I thought I had the ability to be. But if time doesn't work for him then he will be just fine. I work from home so he can tag along with me all day, which he already loves to do. He looks so lovely from the photos I've seen of him, I can't wait till Hailey and Bailey are like that. Speaking of them  So I roast some delicious vegetables as a treat. A little salt, olive oil, garlic and pepper. Housemates and I agree that they some of the best vegetables they've tasted for a long time. So what do the rats think of my hard work? They sniff every type of vegetable and the only one they go for is the sweet potato and I'm not sure they even went to eat it. They just pounced on eachother and wrestled for it. But when they see me about to eat a peppermint - they start climbing the cage and give me the most desperate look I've ever seen. Over the bloody mint.   edit: And I can see that one of them peed on me in the photo
Lord Windy fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Apr 27, 2012 |
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Apr 27, 2012 13:20
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I don't know if rats can taste sweet, but they certainly seem to have a sweet tooth.
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Apr 27, 2012 14:35
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I've asked about ratty smell before in here, but got a quick question to ask. I got a male mouse fairly recently and, although I'm not bothered by his smell, my mother really is (yet the cage of four girls right next to him doesn't bother her unless it's Cleaning Day). I clean their cages 2x a week and give them drops of vanilla extract in their water to keep smell down, but even so she can't go too near to Wheatley's cage without feeling sick. She's very sensitive to animal smells. So my question is, do rats on average smell more than a male mouse would? I've been banned from having male mice again unless they're in my room  I'm planning on getting two rats (I'd prefer males buuut) in an Aurora 450 cage, which I'll be getting very soon. I'll likely clean twice a week still and spot clean daily to keep smell down, but if the rats are likely to smell a lot worse/more strongly than my mouse, they may end up stuck in my room, which'd suck.
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Apr 27, 2012 14:36
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The rats I own, both older females, seem to stink a little more than smaller rats and mice that I've owned in the past. I'm pretty sure it's just the cage/litter/bedding though, holding the rats up to my nose and sniffing doesn't seem to have any sort of smell. Can't say for male rats though, as I've not owned one. So far just regular litter and bedding changes seems to help more than any dry shampoo or bath would. Of course, that room also smells really heavily of timothy hay for my guinea pigs so it's hard to tell sometimes.  Here's some ~animated~ rat goodness of my REW, Jasper. Unfortunately black and white had better quality than color. (Linked for huge file apparently) http://i49.tinypic.com/2ihway9.gif
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Apr 27, 2012 14:52
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I think the rat urine smell is less offensive than the mouse urine smell, but I know my father for example thought van Buren was really stinky when he visited me (cage had been cleaned that day, and VB was his usual boy-musk self). This sounds a little weird, but maybe you could take her to a pet store and ask them to pull out the rat tank and let her take a sniff to see if it bothers her? My personal experience is that rats' bodies are a little stronger-smelling, but their urine bothers me less. Male mouse urine is pretty gross.
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Apr 27, 2012 15:06
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RazorBunny posted:This sounds a little weird, but maybe you could take her to a pet store and ask them to pull out the rat tank and let her take a sniff to see if it bothers her? Yeah, it's not Wheatley's fur smell that bothers her but his urine is very strong and "mousey". It's kind of crazy that he smells more than four females! Excellent idea on taking her to a pet store though. There's one in the next town. I could try and see if my local rat-owning friend wouldn't mind bringing one of his girls out to meet her at some point, too
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Apr 27, 2012 15:41
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Gonna try looking for a buddy for Brumby again this weekend. He's been alone for almost 2 months now. 
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Apr 27, 2012 21:39
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Superconsndar posted:Gonna try looking for a buddy for Brumby again this weekend. He's been alone for almost 2 months now. His choice to be alone or you just haven't found him a friend?
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Apr 28, 2012 00:42
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Posted earlier, his brother died, took in a very sick rat to "replace" him, very sick rat died a couple of weeks ago, have not been looking too hard because busy with work. Gonna see what there is this weekend though.
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Apr 28, 2012 01:25
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I picked up a bunch of rat stuff yesterday! This igloo is awesome. It's pretty big (have three of them curled up in it right more, and could easily fit a couple more) and has a solid base. I make fleece liners for the cage and when they have a sleeping den that doesn't have a base, they pull up the liner through it and destroy it, and it's a pain in the rear end. I also picked up the Critter Pod that has been posted a few times. It seems awfully small and only one of the rats has really taken to it so far, but it's well built and has a nice design. I think two girls could fit in there comfortably, or maybe two small males.
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Apr 28, 2012 17:47
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Invalid Octopus and others, could you post pictures of your ratty setups? I enjoy seeing cage setups, and it'll give me more ideas for when I get rats... eventually. Also my rat-owning local friend has agreed to bring his girls around sometime for my mum to see/handle/smell 
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Apr 28, 2012 18:27
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Sure! Mine's looking a bit more barren than it usually does, since I just took out a bunch of their bigger pieces and the replacements are a bit smaller. With some hammock making this weekend it should look a bit better!   But apparently this is something I routinely take pictures of, so I'll add some previous configurations that I moved away from for one reason or another.      Protip: do not get any timothy hay furniture for them unless you want to wake up to this:  The Rat Forum has a couple cage pic threads, one specifically for Critter and Ferret Nation cages (like mine), and one for all the other types. The Fancy Rats Forum has a Critter Nation thread as well, which is in a whole subforum devoted to showing off rat set-ups.
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Apr 28, 2012 19:39
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I am pretty pissed at my roommate right now because she burned so much incense in the apartment that I'm worried it might've affected my rats. It got into the ventilation and it's really heavy and making me gag. Will my rats be okay? I'm circulating air with a fan and my windows are wide open. I have guinea pigs as well, but my rats are older females and closer to the vents. Is there anything else I can do to make sure they're safe? I've already said flat out "no more incense" though, because I'm very sensitive to smells and own rodents, and I don't think my roommate is capable of finding a responsible way to burn it without it getting into the ventilation system again. Eugh.
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Apr 29, 2012 04:23
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^^That sucks, Bear Rape. I would keep an eye out for any weird lung sounds, and take them to the vet if any sound bad. If you have a vet you really trust (I know not everyone does) it might be worth giving them a call. Folly climbed into the new hammock as I was hanging it  (Tutorial here.)
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Apr 29, 2012 04:30
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I meant to say the other day that your setup is really impressive, Invalid Octopus. But then that thing happened so I forgot to mention it. Thankfully the rats are fine, but sleeping arrangements in the house had to be changed because of how strong the smell was upstairs.  Windows were left open, fans were left on, and all rodents are a-ok. Next month I'll be buying a Martin cage to upgrade my girls to. I'm thinking of going ahead and getting the biggest cage they have for rats, lining with fleece and then adopting some more older females.
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Apr 29, 2012 14:47
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Bear Rape posted:
I can't remember the name of the model, but years ago I had the biggest martin's available- it was the one that was double the size of the RUUD, I think. It was IMPOSSIBLE to clean because it was so deep my arms could barely reach the back. It also could barely fit through doorways and scraped the poo poo out of door frames when I forced it through to take it outside to scrub. I sold it after about 6 months of wanting to die every time I had to deal with it. Would not reccomend.  Had a couple RUUDs though, and they were great. Wish I still had them. Edit: You guys, I am taking a stab at making my own lab blocks today. Will post trip report. 
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Apr 29, 2012 16:13
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Today my husband and I debated whether it was funny or stupid to get four rats and name them after Ninja Turtles but not have a Splinter. Guys, I think he's on board 
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Apr 29, 2012 16:46
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Superconsndar posted:I can't remember the name of the model, but years ago I had the biggest martin's available- it was the one that was double the size of the RUUD, I think. It was IMPOSSIBLE to clean because it was so deep my arms could barely reach the back. It also could barely fit through doorways and scraped the poo poo out of door frames when I forced it through to take it outside to scrub. I sold it after about 6 months of wanting to die every time I had to deal with it. Would not reccomend. Yeah, thinking of RUUD, I don't think I could handle something bigger in my room currently (like I'd want to, since if cleaning it was a bitch for you it's going to be that much harder 30ish weeks pregnant). How many rats (adult female) would you say would be the maximum for a RUUD? The Rat Cage Calculator says about 9 I think? But I'd like to hear any personal experience with that. I'm only planning on having about 6, but I want to dick around with what all I can possibly fit in there for enrichment. Good luck with the lab block creation! RazorBunny: All five of my first rats were named after Metal Gear Solid characters and my boyfriend thought that was the Best Thing Ever. Now I have pretty plain names in comparison, but themed names are seriously awesome.
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Apr 29, 2012 17:24
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Super, I thought the RUUD was the biggest Martin's they had?  I have the RUUD. 8 rats fit in it just fine. Just make sure you put lots of hammocks and hidey-holes in it. Although, like super said, it was a pain in the rear end to clean UNLESS you had a power washer. If you have one of those, take it outside, blast it clean, let it dry, put it back in. It's like a rat cage dishwasher!
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Apr 29, 2012 17:32
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Bear Rape posted:Now I have pretty plain names in comparison, but themed names are seriously awesome. Our cats Leela and Nibbler agree with you My kid wanted me to get three and name them Athos, Porthos, and Aramis. He's leaving for the Marines later this month, though, so he doesn't get a vote. I've been paying a lot of Mass Effect lately, so it's tempting to do ME themed names.
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Apr 29, 2012 17:42
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daggerdragon posted:Super, I thought the RUUD was the biggest Martin's they had?  My bad, it's been a while since I've looked at rat stuff. The one I had was the ferret penthouse (F-470.) I forgot it was marketed for ferrets and not rats.Edit: Bear Rape, I think the most I ever put in a RUUD was 10 or 11 smallish girls. I don't think I ever comfortably fit more than 7 males in one.
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Apr 29, 2012 17:47
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