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 Finally found a pic of an old-school Norwegian harp. FelicityGS posted:Here's a question: where's a good source of chords and how they work? I can find tons of stuff for Twa Corbies, but none of it's written with a bottom line, which seems a shame. The only other version I can find for harp is the Three Ravens, which is hardly so morbidly humourous. So I take it your issue is that you have sheet music which has a melody line, and then the guitar chord written above it, and want to figure out how to translate that into harping? If so, the basic answer would be this .pdf of Building Chords on the Scale (from the site Music Theory for the Celtic Harp). Pretty simple little booklet just showing the notation of a wide variety of chords on bass and treble clef, and it has some simple technique suggestions at the bottom, like breaking the chords into arpeggios, plucking the lowest note on the downbeat and the higher notes on the upbeat, or playing an "open chord" with just the root and fifth of the chord. That gets you the most basic and literal answer to your question. To flesh it out I ran across this website that appears a promising intro: Music Theory for Songwriters. Also downloadable as an e-book, so I might put it on my phone and do a mini-review later. So far as Twa Corbies, just wanted to recommend the song to others here, and a little backstory. The original song was Three Ravens, this horribly sappy broadside ballad about Ye Olde Knight who's wounded in battle and lays dying, and how the titular ravens are unable to eat his body because it's guarded by his valiant hound and hawk, then this doe (presumably a metaphor for his girlfriend) comes and bears his body away to bury. My impression is the Scots version came later, and was an outright parody, where the "twa corbies" (two crows) scoping the corpse notice that his hawk and hound have buggered off to go look for critters to hunt, and his girlfriend is home getting plowed by some other knight, so they can just go dig right in. It's fun to hear/sing as well since it's in Scots English: As I was walking all alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane intae the tither did say, O, "Whaur sall we gang and dine the day, O, whaur sall we gang and dine the day?" Here's a good explanation and sing by Hamish Imlach. I normally dislike overly-cheesy attempts to incorporate sitar into Western music, but this Scot was born in Calcutta, so he gets a pass. And here's the older, cheesier version, Three Ravens by Peter, Paul, and Mary. PP&M isn't quite my sound, but their impact on the folk scene is undeniable. Though it was a bit unsettling to read of Peter's unseemly legal history; do not read if you dislike being disillusioned. Lesser-known, but there's a version of Twa Corbies that crossed the Atlantic, and is known in the US as "Three Black Crows" (not to be confused with the unrelated Blackamore's Night song) which involves three crows planning to eat a dead horse. Here's a cover of Burl Ive's version, though I've heard it done live by Peggy Seeger to the tune of "Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye" (better known to Americans as "The Ants Go Marching One by One"). I like it more done to the latter, darker melody. If you don't know Burl Ives' folk work, you probably know him as the narrator/snowman from the Rankin-Bass claymation Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, where he sings "Silver and Gold" and "Holly Jolly Christmas". Also played Big Daddy in the 1958 version of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. While we're disillusioning folks, he was rejected by many others in the folk scene after testifying at the House Un-American Activities witch-hunt back in the '50s. But the man does look awfully dapper holding a Northumbrian smallpipe:  Lavender Philtrum posted:Been playing a bit of the tinwhistle lately, I live in a house with two other people and don't want to annoy anyone though, so I don't often get a chance to practice for more than a bit at a time. My goal is to learn at least one song by heart on that thing at the very least before the end of summer and maybe post it up on here when I do. I'm currently trying to learn 'Tripping up the Stairs', but if someone has a recommendation for something easier feel free to let me know. Coupla things: first make a tinwhistle silencer. You can fold up a little bit of notecard and slide it into the air window of the fipple; if you do it the right size/placement you'll get really airy/whispery notes that are still clearly a specific pitch. You can do the same thing with masking tape if you place it right, and though I don't know the specifics there are ways you can permanently modify a cheap whistle to be quiet but melodic by messing with the blade of the fipple. Next issue: if you like Tripping Upstairs and you're learning it fine, keep it up. If you want something easier I'd recommend a reel, polka, or slide over a jig for ease. A few suggested popular and easy-ish tunes would be: Road to Lisdoonvarna (yes, technically a jig but easier than most and often played slow), Cooley's Reel, and O'Keefe's slide. Note with all these that playing it slow and literal is way, way, easier than playing it fast and ornamented. If you're willing to learn music, not much reason not to tackle it, and that'll help you with ocarina too since there's precious little written in ocarina tab. quote:Thanks for the update about Zulu, Xhosa, and Boer concertina! I tried finding stuff myself when you first mentioned it but I suck at youtube searches apparently. Boer concertina there's a ton of it, but Zulu and Xhosa concertina are indeed hard to find. Interestingly enough, actual music experts have noted that Boer music resembles Cajun music, so it's not just me apparently. For black African concertina music, hard to find but here's a cool archival clip of "Will Gumede and his Concertina Band. Also concertina.org has a good Scurfield article on The Black Concertina Tradition of South Africa If you like archival/exotic free-reed stuff, see if your library can interlibrary-loan you a copy of the 1995 CD box-set Planet Squeezebox. It has a whole section of traditional African accordion/concertina, and a great accompanying booklet explaining all the tracks. While you're getting things interlibrary'ed, consider reading The Anglo-German Concertina: A Social History. Dan Worral is also a member at Concertina Forum if you ever want to hit him up. He also runs www.angloconcertina.org and has a bunch of his research articles up there.  As an aside, very early in the development of free reed instruments, which exploded onto the scene in the 1800s, the makers of English and Duet concertinas sought to market themselves as aristocratic instruments, in comparison to the Anglo (or "Anglo-German" until World War I) boxes. I can't lay hands on it now, but one of the sites has some good quotes from marketing materials flat-out dissing the Anglo as a instrument for hicks down at the corner pub, and noting that the English concertina will instead let you play some classy music. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Apr 8, 2012 |
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Apr 8, 2012 18:08
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Thanks! Those all look prettying interesting, and I'm gonna take a dig through them since I've not got much going on this Easter and the one planned thing has fallen through.
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Apr 8, 2012 18:27
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Dammit, just realised I owe zachol a response:  quote:I've been looking to learn some sort of electronic instrument that I can practice with headphones on (I live in an apartment, can't make any noise). The obvious choice is a keyboard/synth, and I should get around to learning the piano anyway, but I'm more comfortable and familiar with wind instruments - I used to play the sax and bassoon, and if I had a convenient place where I could practice without feeling self-conscious I'd still be on that. Will aim to dig into that this week, and also pinging an expert goon from earlier in the thread. In the short-term, I'd suggest you read this up-to-the-minute FAQ Wind Controller FAQ (EDIT: Holy crap that thing is comprehensive), and then let us know if that gives you a few starting ideas. Note also that we have a write-up on some wind controllers back on page 9 (and I've pinged the goon who posted those to swing by the thread). Dig also this clip of the Yahama WX5 controller. quote:Alternatively, I've been meaning to learn the violin, and I've noticed some people on youtube with nifty looking electric ones. Would one of those be at all a reasonable thing to learn on, or would that just be an exercise in frustration and developing bad habits? As has been said earlier in the thread, if you want to learn violin/fiddle, you really have to take it seriously up-front. It's not an easy "dick around with it for a few weeks" instrument, and arguably it's one of the easier instruments to develop bad habits on if you don't get at least some amount of formal real live person instruction (classical or folk). If you're seriously entranced by fiddle and want to put some effort into it, sure, but I wouldn't do it as a vague interest for something to play with. So far as those cool electric fiddles: there are certainly some neat designs out there, but do note that a rock-bottom priced eBay electric violin will suck just as a junk acoustic one will, so the electrics aren't a workaround for an affordable instrument.  Not to dissuade anyone from violin; it's a great instrument and has a ton of versatility. You just want to make sure you approach it with more dedication that something like dulcimer. I'd recommend a carboard dulcimer to anyone with a spare $50 and a couple free hours a month, but violin has an awfully steep learning curve and you will spend a few weeks or more sounding like rear end until you develop even the basics of technique.
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Apr 8, 2012 20:13
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zachol posted:I've been looking to learn some sort of electronic instrument that I can practice with headphones on (I live in an apartment, can't make any noise). The obvious choice is a keyboard/synth, and I should get around to learning the piano anyway, but I'm more comfortable and familiar with wind instruments - I used to play the sax and bassoon *snip* Zachol I don't know if I am able to help but I'm happy to share my experiences - I played clarinet/bass clarinet for years, and when I got more into synths I really missed the satisfaction of wind style instruments. There's a connection to the music I feel when breathing into an instrument that I just don't feel when playing keyboards. So, I looked into wind controllers and ended up getting a vintage Casio DH-100 second hand to start with. It's pretty much a toy but has the advantage of having its own tone generator with volume control and headphone jack. It does send midi out as well for notes, patch changes and breath speed which I think sends as velocity and aftertouch so if you wish you can turn the volume down, hook up the synth, and play. It has transpose keys if you want to play along with someone else. It will run from batteries or a power pack, I don't recall if it is standard or if the polarity is reversed but I didn't have any trouble finding a suitable one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYSlPRC0M2Q This video is a very good demo of what sounds you can get. I think he demos the portamento in the 'clarinet' voice demo too and that's a lot of fun to play around with. Problems: it does feel like a toy. The keys are a little bouncy and this jitter can show up as glitched notes in your playing. You can get a feel for it and adjust your playing style to avoid it but it does not feel quite as natural to play as a real woodwind instrument. It's also easy to accidentally hit the tone change or transpose keys since they are under your right hand about where the trill keys (at least, clarinet trill keys) are. Again you can learn to be careful to avoid this but it is a little annoying. As you may have noticed in the video, the casio tone generator auto-tremolos (vibrato? I always get those confused) after a set time and if this doesn't suit your style of playing, there is a very simple hack/mod you can do to turn it off. I have installed this mod on mine which I found here: http://home.earthlink.net/~kerrybradley/id1.html Another problem these have is the dreaded 'squeal'. I hadn't played mine for a while and when I picked it up again it was squealing all the time instead of sounding notes. The fix is as simple as replacing a dead capacitor. I suppose that's easy for me to say, I have an electronics background and handy access to a soldering iron. You might be able to get a squealing DH-100 for very cheap and fix it up if you can locate instructions for the fix. These things do tend to get snapped up by circuit benders though and I haven't seen any on ebay for a while, so maybe 'rarity' will drive the price up. I found playing the DH-100 frustrating at first, as a clarinet player, since on a clarinet, the fingering for a G in the lower octave is the fingering for a D in the upper and I had to relearn accordingly. Sax is different, isn't it? Maybe it would be fine for you. Also there's only one key per little finger so there are no alternate fingerings like a real instrument and you can find yourself trying to hit a key that just isn't there, or get tangled for certain note sequences if you can't untrain your muscle memory. Lastly, I don't really remember if the tube that you blow into is fully removable for proper cleaning or if it is attached to the wind sensor. A lot of these wind controllers have removable mouthpieces but as you know, the whole bore of the instrument can get wet and go nasty if not cleaned, not just the mouthpiece. After all my complaints I have to say this was the cheapest wind controller I could find, I enjoyed tinkering with it a great deal, and because I can just pick it up and play, it gets the most use. You may get lucky and find one of these cheap, I saw one go for $90 on ebay a while ago, or depending where you live you might be able to find one locally. After struggling with the 'toy' aspects of the DH100 I decided to get a second hand yamaha controller. I felt like I'd proved that a wind controller was useful to me and it was worth spending a bit more money. I went with a WX11 since I'd read that the crooked neck made it a lot more comfortable (I did find this to be true, it is a more natural position for me to play in but your mileage may vary). I found the keys, while plastic and somewhat flexible, do feel nicer to play and are much less clacky than the DH-100. There is also the addition of a bite pressure sensor for even more midi expression. However, the wind flow sensor on my unit isn't as responsive as what I was used to on the DH100. It is adjustable but couldn't get it to feel as nice, which may just be the state of things or it might just be my unit OR I might have been adjusting it wrong. WX type controllers have a separate power pack from the controller which you clip to your belt. If you don't want to run it via batteries, there is a power adapter accessory. You do have to mess around with cables and configurations and then you need to own a synth and know how to set the synth up with monitors (or headphones) and assign the bite sensor to get sound from the wind controller. In my experience I've got a lot more out of my cheap toy Casio DH-100 than my more expensive Yamaha WX11 but if I ever get my synths set up properly this will probably change. I've had a bit of a read about the Akai EWI series recently and looks like they've come out with a USB model which wasn't available back when I was buying wind controllers. I remember ruling out the other EWI controller outright because it cost a lot more than I wanted to spend, but now they have this newer affordable USB model which seems to be aimed at hobbyists not just professional musicians. The EWI USB looks like it addresses all of the pick up and play problems that I had with the Yamaha controller. It comes with some software with 75 decent voices, so doesn't sound cheesy like the Casio, and it looks like you play it through Mac or PC. This might be exactly what you are looking for if you don't mind being tethered to a computer. I'm not sure if the midi implementation is very in-depth though, it doesn't look like it can send program (synth voice) changes, for example. I have seen latency problems with USB midi before so if you ever want to hook up a hardware synth later, this could be a problem. As a counter to this, there are a ton of softsynths out there which you should be able to control with this controller and a lot of people do learn to play keyboard/synth this way if that's something you want to do later. I think you'd need another usb midi device with midi outs and some kind of software to patch the two to get the midi from the EWI USB into a hardware synth via your computer. Even the cheap toy Casio can plug directly to a hardware synth so missing this would be the biggest disadvantage of this controller. I wish I hadn't looked into what was new in the world of midi controllers because I am very tempted to get my hands on one of these EWI USB controllers to see how it compares. I suspect Akai have made it more affordable by leaving out midi implementations that the EWI USB's big brother, the EWI4000s would have onboard. The USB one can't turn on portamento locally on the instrument for example, but you can do it in the software. It is around half the price and it definitely isn't lacking in features overall. So if you just want to pick up and play, the Casio DH100 (or DH200, DH1000) or the Akai EWI USB(+computer) depending on your budget and your willingness to tend to vintage electronics. Or the EWI4000s if you don't mind paying more, since it does have a built in sound module. Although, something I've only just realised, the EWIs don't actually have keys - they're touch sensitive in some electrical sense, you have to have your thumbs on 'ground plates' on the rear of the instrument. So you can't rest your fingers on keys/pads like you might be accustomed to doing. All of a sudden these don't seem quite as awesome to me. It looks like you need a Yamaha WX series or the EWI 4000s if you want more midi options. You should be able to get a second hand WX for a lot cheaper than a EWI4000s and it would come down to personal choice whether you want to sacrifice the more realistic keys on the WX for the flexibility that the 4000s would give you. I've had some confusing information on whether the WX series are discontinued or not. WX5s do seem to be available still but they are marked as discontinued on the Yamaha Australia website. They seem to be a comparable price to the EWI 4000s and if I was buying new and had money to burn I really don't know which I'd pick of the two. Hey TapTheForwardAssist, you've got me down as learning the Diddley Bow but I was learning tin whistles. On that front, I've learned a few songs and made a PVC/broomstick 'lowish' whistle (as low as my tiny hands could stretch to play, can't remember if it's a G or A) but I have had to tone it down a bit due to a lack of enthusiasm for my playing from everyone around me. If only tin whistles had headphone jacks!
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Apr 9, 2012 11:04
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Wind Controller FAQ and other stuff Neat. Thanks! quote:As has been said earlier in the thread, if you want to learn violin/fiddle, you really have to take it seriously up-front. It's not an easy "dick around with it for a few weeks" instrument, and arguably it's one of the easier instruments to develop bad habits on if you don't get at least some amount of formal real live person instruction (classical or folk). If you're seriously entranced by fiddle and want to put some effort into it, sure, but I wouldn't do it as a vague interest for something to play with. Sorry, I should've been clearer, I wasn't thinking of the violin as a "tool around with" sort of deal. I'm fine with putting in the effort at the start to learn the violin, and I'm aware that it'll be difficult. Live training isn't possible (I live in Japan woo), but I'd be sure to be careful about bad habits at the start. It's more a question of whether starting with an electric violin would be particularly challenging over a regular acoustic one. I'm alright with sounding absolutely horrible as long as I'm the only one suffering - the main reason I haven't tried to learn more instruments is I always feel incredibly self-conscious, even in a practice room, so I'm looking for something that I can work on in private. Stoca Zola posted:stuff Super interesting, thanks! I was definitely looking at the EWI USB, but your suggestions on the Yamaha WX vs EWI 4000s are definitely helpful. Bummer about the wind pressure on the WX11, it sounds excellent otherwise.
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Apr 9, 2012 14:32
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zachol posted:Super interesting, thanks! I was definitely looking at the EWI USB, but your suggestions on the Yamaha WX vs EWI 4000s are definitely helpful. I wouldn't say that the wind pressure is BAD on the WX11 - for all I know the midi sends are similar between the two. It's just that you can puff the slightest puff of air and get the Casio to respond, but the WX11 seems to have a threshold that you have to hit first. To be honest if I hadn't played the Casio first it's highly likely I would have been perfectly happy with the WX11. Edit to add: One very important thing that I forgot was that Yamaha WX series (at least the earlier ones, not sure about WX5) have proprietary connectors, and the midi connection goes to the battery pack BT7. But BT7s aren't available so there is a third party that makes equivalents, which is where I got mine from. http://www.windworksdesign.com/music_wwbat.html I also found https://www.ewiusb.com to be a wealth of information from an experienced user. Edit again: I just got my WX11 and have been playing for a couple of hours with soft synths to see how easy it is to set up. I'm using VSTHost (freeware) and I've tried a heap of different soft synths trying to get something that feels okay to play. VSTHost does let you map parameters to different controls on the soft synths but the results I was having were less than satisfactory. Then I found the MiniDizi softsynth and it was a whole different and better experience. It's available for free here, and it feels so much nicer to play than what I was getting out of the more synthy softsynths. Also I worked out that my wind pressure issue with the WX11 is to do with the maximum flow being more restricted than what I am used to playing. I really can't just belt out large volumes of air (but there is no need to, to hit the maximum value). Possibly more my own inexperience than any fault of the controller. Stoca Zola fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Apr 10, 2012 |
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Apr 9, 2012 17:15
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zachol posted:Sorry, I should've been clearer, I wasn't thinking of the violin as a "tool around with" sort of deal. I'm fine with putting in the effort at the start to learn the violin, and I'm aware that it'll be difficult. Live training isn't possible (I live in Japan woo), but I'd be sure to be careful about bad habits at the start. You're in Japan? Stand by for jealous goons complaining that you're not taking shamisen lessons. So far as electric violin, and again though I played some fiddle and viola in the past I'm not expert here, my overall impression is that they're "different" to play from acoustic. They have advantages in terms of ease of adding effects (distortion, flanger, etc.), and due to the ease of construction and lack of resonating body issues, 5-string and higher e-violins aren't anywhere near as uncommon as such acoustics. There are even e-violins with frets, apparently since it's hard to get the nuances of hitting just the right note in a hard-thrashing rock environment. The objection to learning electric first would be that you don't develop a feel for the nuances and subtleties of an acoustic. Which may or may not bother you. My understanding is it'd be easier for an acoustic player to go electric than vice-versa, but if you really like electric as an instrument unto itself that may not matter to you. So far as playing in apartments, there's a device called a "violin mute"; the one I had as a kid was hard rubber and clipped onto the bridge. It makes the violin notably quieter, and there are even heavier metal ones that greatly deaden the sound, to the point people specifically mention "paper thin apartment walls" as the only reason to use such a heavy mute.  Interestingly enough, Yamaha got into electrics via making "silent violins" for Japanese players with just your problem.  That's the Yahama SV ("silent violin"). There had been other electric fiddles before, like the Barcus Berry, but Yahama took the design an edgier direction, and the electric portion was at first just an afterthought for playing with earphones and such. As demand grew, Yamaha ended up moving into electrics in a pretty serious way. I would imagine the market of used electric violins would be even better in Japan than in the US. If you're in a decent sized city, you might want to check whatever kind of shops carry used musical instruments in Japan, or the Craigslist equivalent if your Japanese is good enough. Japan is pretty big into violin, so finding one shouldn't be too hard, and for instruction I'd recommend you get at least some basic hands-on teaching at first. If cash is an issue, maybe see if you can get some university music student cheaper, maybe offer some English tutoring in exchange?  Seven-string fretted violin by Viper Those are just my non-expert overview suggestions, and now you have some googling to do, and/or scoping out the archives at Violinist.com. They've covered both apartment-playing (mutes, silents, electrics) and e-violins at length, so lots of good material there. When you figure out what you're getting, either wind controller (also maybe widespread used in Japan?) or fiddle, let us know what you ended up with. Cool pics? If work lets up I plan to next cover something a simple way to make a common instrument exotic: alternate guitar tunings. Before I kick that off, if anyone here specialises in DADGAD or Taropatch tuning, feel free to kick off a post on it.
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Apr 12, 2012 05:20
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Silent/muted violin sounds like an excellent idea. I didn't realize that was a thing. My Japanese is atrocious but I'll try to figure something out. I am in a pretty big city (Sapporo), I'll see what sorts of stores there are. I was assuming I'd buy something over the internet, but getting something used would probably end up being easier. Thanks for your help!
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Apr 12, 2012 06:50
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zachol posted:Silent/muted violin sounds like an excellent idea. I didn't realize that was a thing. No worries, just do put some thought into getting someone to guide you through getting the basic form down, even if it's just a music student who needs English tutoring. I'll be curious to hear if you do indeed find a bountiful market of used electric violins in Sapporo. Two quick drone-related pieces of info: First, for anyone interested in Scottish smallpipe, or Scottish music in general, check out http://smallpiper.blogspot.com/ , which has posts of tunes, sheet music, etc. Secondly, if anyone is afflicted with a dominant left hand, and is interested in string instruments, there's a Wishnevsky octave mandolin, left handed on eBay with a $150 buy-it-now price. We've mentioned Wishnevsky earlier in the thread, and as I understand it the basic consensus is he builds really interesting stuff. A bit clunk but serviceable, and at really reasonable prices. I've almost won bids on a couple of his octave mandolins and a mandocello (like $250-350 selling prices), but for a leftie this appears to be a good deal. Just search his name on eBay. 
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Apr 13, 2012 04:05
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I'd like to learn to play a guqin. Do you know of any resources to learn to play it or even find and buy one? I haven't been able to find anything, I'm in Seattle, WA, but if you know of any that would be sweet.
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Apr 15, 2012 18:50
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I swear this is the last time I upload music until I learn something worthwhile. I'm just so excited I can play recognizable Greensleeves and I have to share with someone! This is easily one of my favourite songs, and has been for years, and I'm very excited that I am able to do more complex bottom lines. There's totally a few places I'm still working on as far as making smoother, avoiding finger buzz, and otherwise polishing, but still, I am super excited! Take that 2.5 months of practice.   Edit: That said, for anyone else interested in harp of any sort, I cannot emphasize how important good finger placement is for playing harp. Everything gets much easier if you just place your fingers right. Beginner books with placement laid out for you are indispensable while learning, as it helps you develop good technique. Place place place place, and everything gets so much easier. Play slow and crappy and ignore note values at first if you need to, but just get your hands use to placing and the most common placements. It will make everything sound better, smoother, and make it easier for you to learn since you don't have to constantly stare at the harp to find the next note. Good placing will make it so you can trust your hands to find the strings. My playing blew until I finally buckled down one weekend and just redid every song I knew to that point and followed the placing. It was astonishing how big a difference it makes, and my hands are much better and more familiar with where they should go to walk through the notes. I know that sounds cheesy, but it's true. felgs fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Apr 17, 2012 |
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Apr 17, 2012 03:24
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Reason posted:I'd like to learn to play a guqin. Do you know of any resources to learn to play it or even find and buy one? I haven't been able to find anything, I'm in Seattle, WA, but if you know of any that would be sweet. I had a full-size writeup back on page 14: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3415486&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=14#post401568926 But I can cover whatever remaining questions you have here. In the post I list a few US qin dealers, the main of whom tends to have what are supposed to be really solid starter guqin for about $700. You can find eBay cheapies for like $250 and up, but I don't yet have enough data on how to pick a good one of those, though I have read at least one guy say the $300-500 ones are okayish, but something you outgrow and want a better one. Seattle? That's pretty fortunate, since UW has a actual guqin instructor: Wu Ziying. Taking lessons from him might not be feasible, but I'd imagine if you're polite (and do your research in advance so it's not all "let me google that for you") questions, that you might be able to get some good advice from him on buying, and whatever other guqn teachers there are in the Seattle area. Be bold, call the prof up, take him out for a beer/tea/coffee and pick his brain. There's also a guy I link in Pg 14 who's a math professor in Portland and plays qin, so he might have some ideas too. The man has made some gorgeous qin out of American woods like maple and cedar, and has a sparse but cool blog: http://littleoldqinmaker.blogspot.com/  I also link to a few English guqin forums on the Pg 14 post, so a few more places to find data. There's also a surprisingly extensive writeup in the description section of this YouTube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh8tCtY0Wgk I'm a sucker for Western stylings on qin, so really enjoy this guy's track. And he provides a lot of detail, in a small space, about what books he's used, how he's taught himself, etc. Definitely worth reading, and maybe messaging the guy once you've done your basic homework. Couple questions for you: do you already play any instruments? Are you looking to learn traditional Chinese repertoire, or are you more interested in using the guqin for Western music? It's really an amazing instrument, so glad to hear it's something you're considering. I'd thought it was too much to hope for that someone would take up guqin in this thread, so if you do make the leap it'll be awesome to hear how it works for you. If you're short on cash and wanting to try out the concept, in all seriousness the diddly-bow (also described earlier in the thread) would give some basic impressions. It's not the same thing at all, though you might be able to rig up something more qin-like than usual by using one of the lower-pitch guitar strings (the metal-wrapped nylon ones) and making the action low enough to sort of press it down to the board. Just one potential cheapie way to make an improvised guqin just to give you something to play with.  EDIT: huh, I tried looking for homemade guqin on YouTube (since there are a lot of cool improvised instruments there), and found one clip of a guy apparently starting the first phase of one, but no follow-up video of the finished instrument. Should message him and ask how it worked out. Along the lines of improvised zithers, again I emphasise that a guzheng and guqin are very, very different in build and play, despite looking similar. But speaking to anyone interested in guzheng but short on cash (like out Pg 14 poster who's been quiet since then), take a look at some of the Tuvan, Mongolian, etc. zithers to see how simple a "board zither" or "box zither" can be rigged up:  If you want to jury-rig a zither, take a poke around http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Zithers , get some good ideas, and just rig something up for kicks. If resonance isn't huge to you, just use a 2x4 or whatever, and if you want you can glue it onto a carboard box (just like cardboard dulcimers do) to get resonance. We haven't had a whole lot of goons making instruments in this thread so far (aside from a few badasses hand-making PVC flutes), but if primitive nomadic societies can figure it out, you and Home Depot and your dad's electric drill can probably make do. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Apr 17, 2012 |
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Apr 17, 2012 13:09
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As long as we're showcasing zithers I want to but in and talk up Santoors a little. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLkRSdbDRck The santoor is a 100 stringed zither based off of a version of the veena thats been around since the vedas. There are three strings per "note" and they're played with two small little metal hammers and occasionally strummed and plucked with the hand. You bounce the hammers off the strings, and there is a neat little trick where if you use a light hand it'll lightly bounce off the strings and create a wonderful sustain effect which can be used to create a strobing sort of meend.  Even though this instrument has been around a long time, its only in the last generation or two been well adapted to hindustani classical music, so its an instrument ripe for pioneers. It has a very enchanting sound. The above video showcases some of the slower style, but if you watch the later parts of that performance you'll see it has some impressive capabilities for fast play and rhythmic styles. Yiggy fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Apr 17, 2012 |
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Apr 17, 2012 15:05
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FelicityGS posted:I swear this is the last time I upload music until I learn something worthwhile. I'm just so excited I can play recognizable Greensleeves and I have to share with someone! This is easily one of my favourite songs, and has been for years, and I'm very excited that I am able to do more complex bottom lines. For 10+ weeks, you're sounding spiffy. The tune is clear, rhythm is a bit rough but better than the last track, and the low hand matches up pretty well. Definitely some achievement. Have you cracked open your new books yet, or are they still a bit advanced? When you do get up to your Nordic harp books, that'll be something to show off too. I ran across some Nordic harp stuff that I reckoned you might like: http://www.nordic-harp-meeting.se/ They have a gallery full of harp-porn. Everything from huge floor-harps, to lithe little medieval lap harps, to a pretty solid variety of six-string lyres and five-string kantele. Also a bunch of (a bit roughly filmed) clips on YouTube from their meetings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z-PcBhhfbg&feature=relmfu It appears they meet every year, alternating amongst Nordic countries; this year is Jyväskylä, Central Finland, in October 2012. So something to add to your bucket-list. I will admit, up until this thread I'd never seen harps with old-school wooden friction pegs: 
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Apr 18, 2012 04:20
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Meaning the Stylophones we covered earlier? Those can be fun, though I would suggest checking out a few more upscale options; $20 is about as much as I'd pay for a Stylophone, as you start running into nicer stuff not much above that. The Korg Monotron is a bit more expensive ($40ish), but can be found used for a bit less. The Gakken SX-150 analog synth can be had in kit form (no soldering required) for about $25, is easily hacked, and appears to have a goodly online following. Bleep Labs (yay Austin) offers their Nebulophone in kit for for $55, and it sounds pretty rad, though a bit less musical and a bit more freaky-noise. Here's a demonstration from Synth-Project. They, of course, went the extra mile and made a totally sweet-rear end custom controller for it 
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Apr 20, 2012 20:14
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Dammit, the rabbit hole just keeps going.  I've been looking for an excuse to head to that neck of the woods. I don't know if it would happen this year, but it's something to keep in mind at least. I've been able to play around with one of the books, but the Nordic one is still a bit advanced for me. Some of it feels very slow--I am practicing every day, but I usually don't begin a new song until a week after I've got the last one to a point I'm mostly satisfied with. Then about three days to each hand so I have them mostly memorized and know how my hands are moving, then finally putting it together. It's usually about one to two weeks all together. I don't want to try and learn multiple songs at the same time, just to avoid confusion. Yeah, I can read music, but I feel more comfortable having it memorized, so that if I want to screw around with it I can. (Not that I'm really adding any flourishes to these things) Also, that harp is freaking bad rear end. Now I want one like that too. I've been looking around for more local harp makers (stretching the definition of that word a bit, haha, just the few states around me), and have found one that I'm totally set on. It's gonna be quite a few months of saving up here and there--the whole deal is going to run me about $1800 (unless they have one gently used and I can get lucky), but for a 38 string that both looks and sounds the way I want, that is a freaking bargain after having dug through all the different harps out there. That'll give me time to get good and really learn though. Nothing like being limited to get super familiar with all the tricks you can do! Dammit, I am not rich enough for this, haha. Maybe I should learn woodworking!
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Apr 20, 2012 23:29
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FelicityGS posted:Dammit, the rabbit hole just keeps going. If that's a little too far, do note too that the Historical Harps Society has a conference at Hunter College in New York State in June 2012. Looks to have some cool events. quote:Also, that harp is freaking bad rear end. Now I want one like that too. Do you happen to know what the name for that kind of harp would be? The style looks rather distinctive. quote:I've been looking around for more local harp makers (stretching the definition of that word a bit, haha, just the few states around me), and have found one that I'm totally set on. It's gonna be quite a few months of saving up here and there--the whole deal is going to run me about $1800 (unless they have one gently used and I can get lucky), but for a 38 string that both looks and sounds the way I want, that is a freaking bargain after having dug through all the different harps out there. So what is this make/model of harp you've now set your sights on? quote:Dammit, I am not rich enough for this, haha. Maybe I should learn woodworking! Some individual instruments can be pricey, and if you get big into recording gear or whatnot there can be a temptation to pick up lots of peripherals. Overall though playing music isn't too expensive a hobby in the big picture. Even with an $1800 awesome harp, it's not like you're buying a new one every five years or anything. And maintenance is largely limited to getting new strings occasionally, so follow-on expenses are pretty negligible. Compare to firearms where you can easily spend $50-100 of ammo in a day of shooting (or at least $10 if just .22 calibre), or to snowboarding where you have to buy all the gear, drive up into the mountains, buy a lift ticket, etc. ever single time you want to go do your hobby. Music is cool too because you can do it just hanging around the house, or you can go meet up with other folks and jam, so you can play any end of the sociability and effort spectrum. It's a good hobby. And just for the sake of getting a pic in the post, here's a terribly expensive but interesting development: carbon fibre harps.  36 strings, 51" tall... and weights 10 pounds and costs 6 grand.
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Apr 22, 2012 07:23
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Do you happen to know what the name for that kind of harp would be? The style looks rather distinctive. No, but I can certainly look into it and find out. quote:
One from Blevins Harps, out of Colorado. Specifically the Blevinsong 38, though I could see picking up a Serafym 36 for it's brighter sound. It's around the same save point for either. They usually have gently used ones for around $1800 for both; I suspect that if they don't at that point I won't mind waiting until I have cost for a new made one. The hobby thing is totally true, I try not to keep track of how much I end up spending on yarn/needles/fleece thanks to my fiber hobby. Probably at least the cost of a harp in a year, just spent in tiny chunks throughout. I'm at a point now where I'm realizing that I probably can't knit/spin/dye it all this year and should probably lay off for a while. Now when I want new yarn I drop the money into savings for the harp instead and figure out something to do from stash.  quote:And just for the sake of getting a pic in the post, here's a terribly expensive but interesting development: carbon fibre harps. I've seen those. They kind of make me weep on the inside. The day I pay that much for a harp is one I can't see. I like wood instruments, the two grand area is already pretty expensive to me, and so on. But it is really freaking cool. edit: still digging, but I did find this pretty cool Peru harp that is carried on the shoulder while walking:  Edit2: And holy crap this is pretty. It's an early Chinese harp, called a Fong Shou Konghou. Some strings are just tied to the neck, some use traditional tuning pins.  And edit the 3rd!: I don't think it is, but about the only harp I've found with similar tuning pins is a krogharpe. It's a double sound box harp, and is experiencing a little bit of revival in the area. You play it sitting on your lap like this:  instead of with the sound box leaned against your shoulder. The spacing on the strings is necessarily wide because of the wooden tuning pins. There isn't an oodle of information on it, but one lady in Germany is pretty interested in recreating it and playing it, and she's got an english translation of how she recreated it here. I'll probably keep looking for the other dude's harp, but I'm betting that it's a historical reproduction of what an early harp might be, and I don't doubt if I want one I'll need to have it custom made. Even so, preeeetty cool. felgs fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Apr 22, 2012 |
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Apr 22, 2012 18:14
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While we're on harps, maybe a good time to cover their cousins: Lyre  Most of the major Western plucked lyres have been dead and gone for many a year, and are largely reconstructed from old paintings, bits found in graves, and the like. It's a bit odd, because plenty of the bowed lyres (covered earlier in this thread) held out to the modern era just fine, and are still made and played as a folk tradition. So the lyres will be discussing here are mainly historical reconstructions. While there are some modern non-historical lyres (often kind of zither variants), and some kids' lyres used in music education, I'm going to focus here on Greek, "Hebrew", and Northern European lyres. As a minor technical point: lyres and harps differ in that in harps the strings run perpendicular to the soundboard, while on lyres they run parallel and thus need a bridge to transmit vibrations. Though not necessarily part of the definition, the vast majority of lyres have way fewer strings than harps. The main online enthusiast seems to be Michael Levy, of Ancientlyre.com. A bit busy of a site, but he has some neat clips, good (and very recently updated) info on lyre dealers, historical analysis etc. Kinnor  There are a variety of instruments mentioned in the Bible, but in a large number of cases we have no idea specifically what the terms used refer to. There are some vague images of a lyre on some old Israelite coins, and at some point folks decided to match those up with the term "kinnor", and in the modern era it has some revival in Israel (as the "national instrument"), and... well, among a particular sub-group of really religious Americans. It makes some of the kinnor sites a bit odd, so if you like kinnor you probably want to just skim through the bits about Rebuilding the Third Temple and the like. The more religious folks tend to make really expensive kinnor anyway (like $1000+), and honestly some of them look awfully cheesy. For more affordable options, Mid-East Manufacturing makes a mini-kinnor (16" long) for about $60, and a full size one (27") that retails for $200ish. I wouldn't necessarily recommend the mini unless you really want a tiny, high-pitched instrument, but at that price maybe it's worth risking just to mess with. ME Mfg has a bit of a mixed reputation, and I've heard that their harps are often overpriced, but a kinnor is pretty hard to mess up, in terms of geometry, so I wouldn't totally avoid their kinnor. However, if you have a bit more budget, Marini Harps makes their "Davidic harp" for an astonishingly reasonable $350 (these are folks making multi-thousand dollar full-size harps). It gets rave reviews from a couple of the very few people seriously playing such instruments, so if you're deeply interested in a Hebrew-type reconstruction I'd take a hard squint.  So far as learning resources, I'm not familiar with any books specifically on learning kinnor, so this would be one where learning some very basic music reading and then just buying books of Jewish traditional music is probably your best bet. - Modern American "praise music" on a Marini "Davidic harp" - Modern Jewish music on a steel-strung kinnor. The early Biblical harps were almost assuredly gut or hair-strung since the Iron Age had yet to occur, but for whatever reason several of the religious builders like to make them with wire strings. I really prefer nylon. - Levy playing the nevel, basically a kinnor with a skin resonating head like a banjo Greek (and Roman) lyres  Lyres were pretty big in the Greek and Roman worlds, and fortunately appeared in their art so much that we have some pretty clear ideas of how they looked, and in some of the writings of the era there were even cool details about playing technique. Per legend, the lyre was invented by Hermes, who made it out of random animal bits (tortoise shell, horns, etc) that he found in the woods, and gut he got out of a cow he stole from Apollo's herd. Apollo was going to beat him up for the cow-theft, but was so impressed by the lyre he adopted it for himself. In the modern day these are just played by reconstructionists and the like, some of whom do some amazing work. Paul Butler of Rutgers made this gorgeous recreation, using a gourd in place of the tortoise shell in deference to his vegan wife, and if you like reading about instrument building his page showing the process is lovely: http://crab.rutgers.edu/~pbutler/greeklyre.html  For sellers, there aren't a ton of folks making these. As noted by Levy, there is a Greek dude making repros, http://www.myspace.com/nikolaosbrass . Also the British company Busy Mole offers several kinds of wooden Roman and Greek lyres, patterned after some later instruments. Busy Mole has a middling rep for quality, being a "budget line", but are apparently made in the UK, and since they offer lyres in the £125-£180 range, that's not a terrible deal. And again, lyres are kind of hard to mess up, far easier than harps. - Butler playing his gourd-turtle lyre, both some older tunes and modern compositions. - Short but lovely clip of a Greek epitath on wooden-tortoise (chelys) lyre - Tutorial on Greek lyre by Levy. This man is just all over the Net promoting the lyre and his recordings, but someone's got to do it. He has a ton of clips; some better than others, but you can't beat him on sheer scale, and his tunes are pretty good. Northern European lyres  For English-speakers, the most famous of these would be the Anglo-Saxon lyre, reproductions of which are based on one they pulled out of Sutton Hoo burial site. There are others from Germany and similar as well though, all pretty similar simple 6-string lyres. A similar lyre dating to the 6th century was also dug up at Trossingen, near the Black Forest in Germany, so with that and other clues this is assumed to have been the guitar of its day. Presumably something young proto-Germanic peoples took up in an attempt to get laid.  Hecklers shouting "play Beowulf!" Most of the makes of this instrument look pretty much the same; mainly made in the UK, some in the US, and not terrible in price. In the UK, Busy Mole makes a modernised one for £180, Corwen Broch at £350. Michael J. King makes gorgeous and historically accurate ones, but quite pricey. I bought mine in the US from Albert Winters (http://www.silvershellmusic.com) for a very reasonable $250, and overall pleased with it. I went with modern metal tuners vice wooden pegs, since ease of play was my priority over looks. - Benjamin Bagby is pretty much the rock-star of the Anglo-Saxon lyre. Here he performs a battle scene from Beowulf - Broch playing his Trossingen, note that he does a great job demonstrating the strumming style of playing. - Lyre tutorial by Michael King
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Apr 23, 2012 14:09
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Goddamn, this thread is awesome. I'm completely music illiterate (I play guitar very, very badly) but I'm really tempted to pick up a didgeridoo now. I listen to a lot of slower drone stuff and I just fell in love with some of the low tones this thing can produce. Can anyone recommend a cheap (~$60 US or under) really low frequency didgeridoo? From the videos I watched, I'm mostly interested in some of the darker sounding B Key ones, but I'm amenable to other suggestions. Honestly, I'm not terribly concerned with quality or authenticity. I don't plan on getting really proficient with it; I just want a huge gently caress-off Australian pipe to drone on for a couple hours a week for my own personal enjoyment.
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Apr 25, 2012 17:25
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drat you for having a banner ad. You reminded me I've had a Waltons TIn Whistle key of D sitting in a box for years, and I dug it out. I've been tooling around with it and even got something that sounded vaguely like Mary Had A Little Lamb to come out of it. Now I've gone through this entire thread, and plan on trying God I missed making music.
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Apr 27, 2012 03:10
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quote:Goddamn, this thread is awesome. I'm completely music illiterate (I play guitar very, very badly) but I'm really tempted to pick up a didgeridoo now. I listen to a lot of slower drone stuff and I just fell in love with some of the low tones this thing can produce. Can anyone recommend a cheap (~$60 US or under) really low frequency didgeridoo? From the videos I watched, I'm mostly interested in some of the darker sounding B Key ones, but I'm amenable to other suggestions. Honestly, I'm not terribly concerned with quality or authenticity. I don't plan on getting really proficient with it; I just want a huge gently caress-off Australian pipe to drone on for a couple hours a week for my own personal enjoyment. Okay, a few ways to go here. At the price you're looking at your options are: - Homemade didgs of various sorts: 99c-$10 - Store-bought synthetic didjs: $29+ (especially note Meinl) - Store-bought bamboo didjs: $35+ (note Toca, others) For the absolute cheapest/lowest-effort option:  This is what's called a "golf tube". If you go to your local K-Mart/Wal-Mart equivalent, or wherever is big enough to sell cheap golf clubs, they should have a bunch of these holding the cheap golf clubs in a cardboard stand. They sell them to folks who want their clubs not to ding each other in a a cheap case, for somewhere between a few dozen cents and a couple bucks. Way back when the internet was young in the mid-'90s, when I was in Seattle at the Folklife Festival and they were trying to set some didj world record, they told folks days in advance to go buy these for cheap so they could join in the attempt at "world's biggest didj-in" or whatever it was. So I bought one from Fred Meyer in Seattle for 99c or so and joined in. They're a bit more high-pitched than your average didj, but the basic skills apply, and the rolled top makes about an ideal mouthpiece. Here's an odd but pleasant guy playing one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ath3RVhhXJo Coming up from this, there are a zillion tutorials online for making your own didj from PVC (not ABS, PVC is easier to shape). At the easiest level, you just take the straight tube ($10 new from the store, or less/free scavenged) and make a mouthpiece of either rubbery bits or a coupla bucks of beeswax. I'd do just that first, but if you want to get fancier you can use a hair-dryer to heat the pipe and wine-bottle to flare it, and add curves, a bell, paint it, etc. Tons of stuff online, so just google "make PVC didgeridoo" or similar, lots of neat pieces. If DIY is not your thing, in the <$50 category it's mainly pre-made PVC or bamboo didjs. Again, I'd google the brand name of whatever model you're considering, and don't buy it if you can't find a number of people saying good things about it. I wouldn't bother trying to find a eucalyptus didg under $50, you'll get Indian-made junk. Either go decent-playing cheap, or save up for nice, don't try to have it both ways. A PVC didg can actually sound fine; not identical to eucalyptus, but not "worse" just "different." Regardless, get a working "tube with mouthpiece" and learning the technique off of any of hundreds of YouTube tutorials will become more important than the initial buy. I would vaguely opine: if you aren't a huge DIY fan or absolutely desperate for cash, $30ish for a store-bought didg from a reputable maker isn't a bad deal at all, to avoid the risk of you just not quite making your DIY one right and getting frustrated.  Luminous Cow posted:drat you for having a banner ad. You reminded me I've had a Waltons TIn Whistle key of D sitting in a box for years, and I dug it out. I've been tooling around with it and even got something that sounded vaguely like Mary Had A Little Lamb to come out of it. Now I've gone through this entire thread, and plan on trying Not at all to dissuade you from buying cool gear, but putting at least a few weeks into the Walton is a great way to get some basic skills going. Pick an easy, slow YouTube tutorial for an Irish song and work your way up from there. Tin whistle is one of definitely the cheapest, and among the easier wind instruments except for the immediate learning curve of not under/over-blowing. There are wind instruments somewhat less pressure-sensitive than tinwhistle (like the NAF), but that's about the only hard thing about tinwhistle. Just don't get intimidated by the folks who play really fast. If you can get the basics of tinwhistle down and enjoy it, Irish flute (or the smaller band flute or fife) are the exact same fingerings but with the added subtlety and nuance of the side-blown embrochure. So if you really dig tinwhistle and want to transition that's a great option.  For "the bigger pipes", are you referring to the overtone flute, or which? Cardboard dulcimer is just so cheap and easy, among the cheapest and easiest of the string instruments, it's hard to go wrong there. If you're looking at bagpipes, again, dammit people, consider the Swedish bagpipes. So inexpensive, so minimalist yet versatile, so much less loud and piercing than Highland pipes.
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Apr 27, 2012 13:00
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Not at all to dissuade you from buying cool gear, but putting at least a few weeks into the Walton is a great way to get some basic skills going. Pick an easy, slow YouTube tutorial for an Irish song and work your way up from there. Tin whistle is one of definitely the cheapest, and among the easier wind instruments except for the immediate learning curve of not under/over-blowing. There are wind instruments somewhat less pressure-sensitive than tinwhistle (like the NAF), but that's about the only hard thing about tinwhistle. Just don't get intimidated by the folks who play really fast. Well of course I'm going to put a few weeks into it. Hell, I have to; I'm broke until July. I want to get somewhat good at this and transition to something else, I just don't know what yet. Irish flute was definitely something I was looking at. I never played a wind instrument before, so this is all new ground. I always did percussion in the church band years ago, which I'm thankful for since it really developed my sense of timing. quote:For "the bigger pipes", are you referring to the overtone flute, or which? After some searching, I found the one I was talking about was the low whistle. I just love that sound it makes. This is all months off, though. I want to get at least decent on the tin whistle before I do anything else, because for such a cheap rear end instrument it makes great noises. Also, bag pipes are a long way off for me, since I have to live with other people who aren't as appreciative of the terrible squeaks and squawks of new instruments as I am, but I want either the Swedish pipes or uillean pipes.
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Apr 27, 2012 15:17
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Well, I need to read through all of this thread, but it is making me feel awfully guilty about the ocarinas I have in a suitcase. Its a pair of D and G polycarbs from Mountain Ocarina, and damnit I really have no excuse to not learn music again. I used to play the violin, horribly. Surely I can play a stupid prehistoric wind instrument.
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Apr 28, 2012 03:14
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LeJackal posted:Well, I need to read through all of this thread, but it is making me feel awfully guilty about the ocarinas I have in a suitcase. Its a pair of D and G polycarbs from Mountain Ocarina, and damnit I really have no excuse to not learn music again. I used to play the violin, horribly. Surely I can play a stupid prehistoric wind instrument. Ocarina is a really solid instrument, and one nice thing is it's a little less pressure-sensitive than tinwhistle. Given that you already have a couple good ones, and the internet is full of tutorials, no reason not to haul them out and take a stab. What style of music are you looking to do with these?  When I first saw this I thought "drat, those steampunk kids just don't let up." But turns out it's just an extra-fancy Italian ocarnia; the long bit is a tuning slide that can add/subtract slight amounts of volume from the chamber, and the key are for extra notes. Wompa Stompa posted:Goddamn, this thread is awesome. I'm completely music illiterate (I play guitar very, very badly)... I listen to a lot of slower drone stuff If you like droning and you're having trouble sounding good on guitar, you need to try out DADGAD. DADGAD (those are the notes a guitar is tuned to) isn't as versatile as Standard tuning, but provided you don't mind having a bias to some keys over others, it can sound great for stuff like Celtic, Appalachian, etc. If you're curious, try just wandering around YouTube a bit to get a feel for the sound of it over Standard tuning. It's quite easy to re-tune to, doesn't require new strings or anything fancy, just dropping your two Es down to D and your B down to A. Here's one small example of the tuning for an Appalachian tune, and apparently the makers sell a "two-chord songbook" for DADGAD on Etsy. Luminous Cow posted:Well of course I'm going to put a few weeks into it. Hell, I have to; I'm broke until July. I want to get somewhat good at this and transition to something else, You really can't go wrong plugging away at tinwhistle. Are you interested mostly in playing Irish, or some other genres too? I've been digging around YouTube to find the few clips I can of tinwhistle being used for blues, and it can actually sound great. Mainly it reminds me of the "African American fife and drum blues" style covered earlier in the thread. Makes sense, since the fife is essentially the same thing as the tinwhistle except for the mouthpiece. Actually, in the clip I linked, that girl Sardé (who just put her first F&DB album out which I'll probably buy) is using a side-fipple mouthpiece, which makes her fife about exactly a tinwhistle just with a different angle. Those following the thread more to find cool clips than to pick an instrument: Fife and Drum Blues is probably one of the coolest unusual styles that's come up in the thread, so really worth digging into. Especially so for y'all foreigners whose impressions of American culture are based on exported corporate content, it's good to be able to showcase legit American traditions. I'm extremely glad to see that this style of music (just barely) survived into the current generation.  Getting back to tinwhistle versatility, a few fun clips: - A few kind of jazzy scale licks - Dude posted this amazing "tinwhistle soul" clip 3 years ago and never posted anything else - More just dicking around blues improv; technique is a bit spotty but riff isn't bad Luminous Cow posted:I just don't know what yet. Irish flute was definitely something I was looking at. ...  Funny you mention the two: in the same way that fife and tinwhistle are pretty much the same thing with different blowing methods, so are the Irish flute and the low whistle. The main issue, if you ever end up choosing between the two, is whether you're willing to spend a few months learning a newer/trickier blowing technique in order to get the increased breath versatility of a sideblown. The fingerings all cross over exactly, so you don't need to sweat re-learning that, just your otherwise perfect songs will sound breathy and thin until you get the sideblown down right. Low whistle has a (partially unfair) rep for being an instrument for tinwhistle players who can't be bothered to learn sideblown, but the instrument does have its own character as well. We cover both these back earlier in the thread, and you can buy a good low whistle for maybe $75 used online (which I did), and a good Irish flute (again, do not buy a no-name Pakistani wall-hanger) used for maybe $200ish. Mainly just get an account on Chiff and Fipple and The Session so you can view their For Sale boards, and those are the places to get good used ones. I wouldn't hurry in the slightest, especially if cash is tight, but if you keep working on tinwhistle and just start chucking your pocket change into a jar at the end of the day, eventually you'll have no trouble getting whatever of these appeals to you. Down the road, both uillean and sackpipa are great pipes, and in both cases if you've kept up tinwhistle and/or flute, all the fingering skills and repertoire will cross over almost instantly, and bagpipe air technique will be the only thing you'll have to learn at all.  Of course, there are also these sort of uillean-ised sackpipa, where they end in the multi low drones and bellows. I play a bellows sackpipa and getting some low drones for it is the eventual plan.
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Apr 29, 2012 16:50
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The thread has been a fun read. I haven't done anything music-wise since high school, and now I'm feeling the urge. I played trumpet for several years (not particularly well, but that was mostly because I hated practicing), and I've dabbled in drums, piano, and guitar, nothing serious. I also sing a bit. I'm probably going to have to re-learn how to read music though. (Another thing I was never particularly good at. I could point at a note and sing how it was supposed to sound, but I couldn't tell you the name of the note. I used to memorize how the song sounded if I sang it, and then make my instrument play that. Probably the most rear end-backwards method you've ever heard of.) Anyway, I have pair of daughters (4 months and 2 years old) that I've been toying with the idea getting an ocarina to play for them. My two year-old loves music (she got a small child's piano for her birthday that she loves to play with) and my four month old loves listening to music and really likes it when I sing to her. How well does the Ocarina do lullaby's? Is it particularly loud, or would I be able to keep the volume down while playing it? We live in an apartment complex. I've got some amazon points, so I'll probably be picking one up from there. Any recommendations on what I should be looking for on that end?
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Apr 29, 2012 19:51
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RickVoid posted:Anyway, I have pair of daughters (4 months and 2 years old) that I've been toying with the idea getting an ocarina to play for them. My two year-old loves music (she got a small child's piano for her birthday that she loves to play with) and my four month old loves listening to music and really likes it when I sing to her. How well does the Ocarina do lullaby's? Is it particularly loud, or would I be able to keep the volume down while playing it? We live in an apartment complex. Glad you're enjoying; I'm just glad to get goons playing music. So far as your question, I'm not ocarina-detailed enough to know which are quieter than others. Ocarinas in general aren't the loudest wind, but they certainly vary overall. Mountain Ocarina specifically advises not to buy their product if you're looking for an extra-quiet ocarina, for example. The website theocarinanetwork.com appears to have had a good scattering of threads on the topic "quiet ocarina", but I can't get into them at the moment. Not sure if it's a temporary glitch, or if you need to use cache or Wayback to get into their threads. In whatever case, of the various winds ocarina and Native American flute are among the (relatively) quieter, but even within those you'd want to check around to see which are quieter than average. HOWEVER, given your interest in singing, and the importance of quiet, and your ear-centric learning style, I suggest there is a potentially better instrument for you, and one I can't believe we haven't properly covered up to this point, so here goes: Thumb piano  Variously known by dozens of African-languages terms, with mbira being probably the most common in American English, and kalimba being a new term for Westernised mbiras playing Western scales. In technical terms, they're a lamellophone, that is, an instrument of vibrating tongues, rather than sound produced by strings, air columns, etc. Best of my knowledge, it's a purely Sub-Saharran instrument originally, made of wooden or metal tongues, generally attached to a resonator, that vibrate when plucked. As a kid I saw them a decent amount at folk music festivals and the like, even really whitebread Bluegrass ones and whatnot, presumably since they're easy to build and play. Thumb piano has many things going for it: the layout is very intuitive, they're pretty inexpensive, relatively not-annoying sounding and quiet, and they have a certain purity of tone (technically Inharmonicity) that gives them an ethereal sound. The traditional versions can be a bit rough, and are in very idiosyncratic home-developed scales (of which PhD theses have been written), but the mid-20th century an ethnomusicologist named Hugh Tracey started marketing them to the Anglo world, including huge contracts through toy shops, through a Xona neologism kalimba ("little music").  Note that a kalimba generally has a back-and-forth scale: the lowest note is in the middle, and then the next note is on the left, then a note on the right, then on the left, etc. So as you go up the scale the sides split the work; this is akin to the West African kora harp, and by probably sheer coincidence the English concertina. It's a very easy instrument to find melodies on, whether you read music or no. If you're looking to back up voice (for example for lullabies), I'd apply my "general vague musical instrument minimalist accompaniment" advice and do the following. Google up the chord names (usually given as guitar chords, but chords is chords) for whatever song you want to play. Now, ignore all/most nuance of major/minor etc. and instead for whatever chord just pluck the tongue with the name of the chord, and the one of the fifth above it. So if it calls for a D or Dm chord, just pluck D and A. It's a minimal starting point, but an easy way to get to backing up singing with thumb piano.  So far as buying: there are tons of these things on the market, so my very general suggestions would be to buy things where you can find some good Google-mention of the instrument and/or maker, and unless price is your drivingest factor, eschew the Pakistani/Indonesian mass-produced ones. In fairness, if price is a factor, it's not like it's going to spontaneously combust in your hands, so I would say this is one of the cases I wouldn't necessarily lambast buying a Mid-East Instruments (Pakistan) model. Upgrading is nice, but ME at least has some vague cred, and it's something to start with. The site KalimbaMagic.com is pretty serious into the instrument, has forums, tablature, and the like, so worth a shot. They carry not-the-cheapest models; not necessarily gold-plated or anything, but they do stick to more custom or reputable stuff. RickVoid mentioned Amazon points, so I took a squint there, and my general analysis is to buy any of the Mid-East instruments if you're absolutely sticking to the under-$40 category. Note not all the ME pieces say so in the title listing, so you might have to go into the write-up to see who made it. ME makes both solid-board and hollow-body versions, but note that the hollow isn't massively loud or anything, so they're all relatively quiet. This $12 ME model is one of the cheapest that looks decent-ish. Going up from there I'd avoid Toca products since apparently they're dicks, and there are a few ME products in the $20-40 category, solid and hollow, on Amazon. Now the real meat starts around around $45 with Meinl products (the Amazon search engine doesn't file all the models in the "Thumb Piano" category, so search "Meinl kalimba" from the very start of the search). They have the Mini for $44 and the Medium for $49, the 7-tongue thick-tine model for the clumsy/young for $46, as well as the "Wah-Wah" model for $58. Unlike the "Zither Heaven" and Schoenut cheapie models that are almost certainly contracted out, the Meinl models are made in Sweden, and Meinl in general makes good poo poo. If you're not buying the nice custom stuff from Kalimba Magic, Meinl is a totally respectable middle-ground, and ME a fair cheapie. Minor protip: if you want to make any mbira louder (or honestly most vibratory instruments) set it on top of a large vibrating body. Africans commonly put mbira on a drum, so placing/strapping a thumb piano firmly on a drum, cardboard box, upside-down trashcan, etc. will amplify the sound. Some of the old-time dulcimer players would play by resting their dulcimer on a chest of open drawers, so it's an old idea. Note with the "Wah-Wah" model, and various YT clips, if you interfere with the sound coming from any of the soundholes you can get cool pulsing sounds, almost like using a wah or flanger on electric instruments. Note: unless you're trying to do really authentic African stuff, I would avoid the more colourful/"ethnic" mbira. The gourd-based ones, cool animal shapes, hand-beaten tines, etc. They're cool, but for a whiteboy novice, the consistency of a commercial product is going to be easier to start with.  Clips! - A thumb piano-based orchestra in Uganda - Carol of the Bells played by the KalimbaMagic guy. - KalimbaMagic, yet again, and note how he sticks his fingers into the soundhole to get that pulsing effect by mucking with the sound. - An, of course, electric kalimba
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Apr 30, 2012 13:25
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For a while I was coming back to this thread to look at the awesome pictures of instruments I'd never seen before, and hoping for more awesome clips of interesting music. This time I'm here because I think that someone needs to mention the harmonica/blues harp/mouth organ again. Earlier on, the thread encouraged me to play some tin whistle and I picked up a mixed box of whistles, a pan pipe (zampona style) and a couple of harmonicas second hand. I had a lot of fun playing with the whistles and pipes and really dismissed the harmonicas for ages - eventually I got around to having a play with them (after finding out how to clean them). It looked to me like the older one had been well loved, sat on, at some point caught on fire, and allowed to rust, and a cheap one had been bought as a replacement. The cheap one was easier to clean being just metal and plastic so once it was dry I had a bit of a play. It was a lot more fun than I remember my childhood harmonica being, and I think that's due to the different construction between a tremolo and a blues style harmonica. Getting a tune out was easier and it just felt good to play. There are a load of tutorials, tabs, videos, forums and so on online and it didn't take long before I had the epiphany of the difference between 'folk' style harmonica and 'blues' style. One way, and the way I'd always played, you have a C harmonica, you blow all your songs in C major, and that's that. With the blues style you mostly inhale instead of blowing and on a C harmonica that means you're playing in G. Straight away it feels so different playing in that style, you're hitting all the cool notes, feels awesome. Curiosity got the better of me and I gave the old crusty harmonica a quick wipe and blow to see which holes sounded. I only got three notes out of it but straight away I fell in love with the superior tone. I could not believe that I'd stuck that filthy lovely thing in my mouth, but it sounded so good I had to do it again. That's when I made the mistake of sucking to see if the draw reeds would sound, the drat thing had definitely been in a fire and I'll probably get lung cancer from the ash and fumes and residue I sucked down. I've named that harmonica 'Old Smokey' and started a restoration project. Once I took it to pieces and cleaned it all properly the smoky taste is almost gone. The worst damage to the wood was limited to the very end on one side. It was easy to get the corrosion off gently with a toothbrush and there are loads of tutorials on how to adjust the little reeds so that they're correctly positioned to play. I've almost finished fixing up Old Smokey, the last thing to do is to replace the little nails holding it together with tiny bolts so that the parts are all held snugly together again and no air can leak out.  I really get it why the previous owner did not throw it away even after it caught fire. It's a great little thing. If I wanted, I could get a new one for $30 but Old Smokey has a lot of character that I think is worth preserving. I'm really surprised harmonicas didn't come up more in this thread. Maybe they're too familiar? Or too much like a toy? Or maybe people have been burned by bad experiences with cheap harmonicas that are a chore to play? For anyone out there who doesn't feel musical, can't get the hang of putting their fingers in the right place, etc, I really recommend picking up a mouth organ - I am talking about 10-hole diatonic style harmonicas here, not tremolo or chromatic. You just suck and blow and move it from side to side in your mouth, you could probably play one even wearing boxing gloves. I would say they're about as easy or easier than a tin whistle to pick up and play, you get to harmonise with yourself, they're very portable too. If you're not a mellow meditational NA flute kind of person or not interested in traditional Irish music either then this could be the right instrument for you. I did notice as I played that while I could blow three notes and get good sounding chords, the scale notes sounded a bit odd and from what I can tell that is because harmonicas are mostly tuned to 'just intonation'. The Golden Melody mentioned below is instead tuned to 'equal temperament' - I don't know if it really matters that much though when you're starting out or if it's even that noticeable. Some cheap harmonicas that have good reputations and I've seen mentioned again and again: Hohner Special 20 Hohner Marine Band (Old Smokey is one of these) Hohner Golden Melody Lee Oskar More expensive ones: Suzuki Bluesmaster - laser tuned, phosphor bronze reeds Seydel Blues Session - stainless steel reeds [edit NO! Session Steel has the steel reeds. This one is still good though.] These are supposed to be more hard wearing and the reeds last longer. Regular brass reeds can 'blow out' and need replacing on cheaper mouth organs. Ian Chadwick has put together a bunch of reviews of different harmonicas - just one guy's opinion but he covers a lot of ground. Lastly some clips: A harmonica for beginners video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rL7lcA1V2Ns Not a beginner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=LL2ub3yVD4oYN2w4b4K_KwoQ&v=cJkwFWIov3g Stoca Zola fucked around with this message at 18:20 on May 1, 2012 |
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Apr 30, 2012 19:56
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Well now I just have to post this harmonica clip. I included the same tune in my post on the nyckelharpa, but obviously played on a harpa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXPs_BqRyjQ
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Apr 30, 2012 23:22
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Placeholder posted:Well now I just have to post this harmonica clip. I included the same tune in my post on the nyckelharpa, but obviously played on a harpa. Fantastic, now even more reason for me to buy more harmonicas (so I can play two at once). (That's not supposed to be sarcastic, I really do think that vid is fantastic) Stoca Zola fucked around with this message at 10:33 on May 1, 2012 |
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May 1, 2012 05:06
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Speaking of harmonica, this is my favorite harmonica clip: Buddy Greene playing Carnegie Hall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJB1j5PFsQg
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May 1, 2012 10:45
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I followed a friend to the music store over the weekend while he was buying a bass. I ended up leaving with a harmonica, tin whistle, and a jaw harp. I dont even know why, instruments just keep showing up in my hands. Edit: The week before I bought a cheap ukelele. I also saw a banjo the size of a ukelele and I think I'm going to have to go back and pick it up. Nuggan fucked around with this message at 18:45 on May 1, 2012 |
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May 1, 2012 18:43
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TapTheForwardAssist, this is the thread of love. Thank you so much. I'm looking for advice. I played piano and violin as an adolescent. Man, my violin tone was horrible, but I did have an adequate ear. I can read music. In my 20s, I nearly bought a clavichord, but was dissuaded by the high tunetime-to-playtime ratio. (This was before the era of the electronic tuner; yes, I am old.) Now I'm thinking about a hammer dulcimer, another instrument I've always loved. Do h.d.s go out of tune as quickly as the clavichord/harpsichord/virginals family? Do electronic tuners make this less of an issue? If you were talking to somebody who loves plucked strings rather than bowed strings, what would you recommend? My musical preferences run to Baroque, early music, and non-electrical folk, and I'm looking for something to mess around with in private. Edit: Oh, God, I just caught up on this thread and I can afford a harp. A Sharpsicle in particular. Can I ask the same tuning question? Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 23:41 on May 1, 2012 |
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May 1, 2012 23:31
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I can weigh on this! The first week you'll be tuning it nearly every practice because nylon is very stretchy. The second week you could probably manage every two sessions. By week three and half, you'll tune it once a week, if that. Now I find I usually tune once every two weeks, and it's really just fine tuning. Tuning a harp is incredible easy--just making sure you get a tuning key and electric tuner and you are set. I got a super cheap Korg. I am still working on training my ear to hear notes, and I can tune in about 5 minutes flat with an electric tuner, if that. The only catch is that (especially on the upper notes) you've got to remember a light touch--the tiniest tweak of the pin can get a note in tune. Lower notes usually end up needing slightly more to them, but not much. I'd really recommend you do it, because it's so much fun and the tuning is really the least scary thing about harp to me. It just takes so little time, especially after the strings have stretched out.
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May 1, 2012 23:55
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Hooray, and thank you! What kind of harp do you have? Edit: And after six years of violin I am well familiar with the eety-tiny breathe-on-the-pin-and-back-off maneuvers necessary to get the E string in tune. Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 00:13 on May 2, 2012 |
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May 2, 2012 00:10
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Mine is a generic 22 lever string harp I got off someone in my area since they were moving It goes c to c and has levers on all the strings. Not necessary really for starting, but if you can do all levers then do so, since it will give you more to work with for longer without having to always retune for different keys. If you want any resources, I can give you some of my favourite when I get back home.
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May 2, 2012 01:12
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Absolutely, completely non-ironic. I have always wanted to play harp. Always. Since I was a 7thgrader who played both violin and piano and they picked SOMEBODY ELSE to learn harp. And now, thanks to this thread, I have realized I can afford a harp. And I am happy.
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May 2, 2012 04:05
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Absolutely, completely non-ironic. I have always wanted to play harp. Always. Since I was a 7thgrader who played both violin and piano and they picked SOMEBODY ELSE to learn harp. And now, thanks to this thread, I have realized I can afford a harp. This pretty much sums me up. I played clarinet and bass clarinet for years, because we had no strings (band, not orchestra) and I wanted to play harp forever and ever. Then I realized I had the money for it. It was/is a pretty great feeling. Some of these are ones that TapTheForwardAssistant mentioned, and some are ones I found. Warning: A few have music when you go their main page, so if viewing at work might want to mute. My Harp's Delight has some solid stuff on different tunings, stretches you can do, other resources, and so on. A few come off kind of hokey, but I generally like her stuff. Reinging Harps is a newsletter for the Pacific Northwest Folkharp community, it has a fair share of music to play around with. Pleasantries and Diversions is what I use for some of my basic warm up exercises and general technique that isn't covered in my base lesson book. Harp Column's forum is what I end up using when I have a sort of question. Most times people have asked it before and so it lets me see some responses from other harpists instead of going into the wild google lands that think 'harp' means 'harmonica' (though thanks this thread I know why that happens now!) For shops I like to browse for books, I've got two major ones: Melody's Traditional Music and Harp Shoppe is my favourite place, just because it feels like it has a slightly larger selection of lap harp books than my other favourite--or it's organized better or some such. I've had good experiences with what I've got from them too. Sylvia Woods Harp Center is my other go to to find harp books. It's fairly well organized too, and I find it more useful for finding a wider variety of different cultures' music--specific categories for Scandinavian and South American for instance. There may not be a lot but I do like that I can find them so quickly. The books I've been using for now are Sylvia Wood's Teach Yourself to Play the Folkharp, with DVD which you can get for dirt cheap. I don't use the DVD super often unless I'm really stumped by a rhythm, though it is nice to have since the closest harp teacher is 2 hours away. I think it has a good progression, and while it doesn't go into detail about placing, it does build muscle memory really well for good technique. All the placements she's got I've seen as ones mentioned in etudes and stuff. You could buy this from a harp shop or get it dirt cheap off Amazon. The main book I use in warm up, even if I don't do the whole thing, is Conditioning Exercises by Carlos Salzedo. I saw this one mentioned several times on Harp Column and elsewhere, and it seems pretty solid to me. I haven't really felt like I have much time to delve into my other two that I got and mentioned earlier in the thread--The Nordic Harp Book (which is slightly above my current skills) and Easy Celtic Harp Solos, which is in my range but I just haven't gotten time to play. I picked both to give me a wider idea of what harp music is out there, since I'm not really attached to any one style over another right now. One thing I've seen mentioned and which I think has helped my playing is to pick out a few measures--usually about 4 or 5 for me--that are difficult to play in a song I'm learning and just use that to improve technique. I usually struggle with placements that my hands haven't done a lot so it does help me get used to where the strings are, which I think is the point. Also have fun. Sometimes I get tired or frustrated by the piece I'm learning and just dick around playing with chords, trying to get some sort of dependability for harmonics, stepping my fingers on the strings, and generally just goofing off until I'm relaxed again and can continue on. Sometimes that little bit of goofing off is what I needed to get my hands a little less stiff and a little more warmed up.Edit: Oh and since once you get one you might go off the deep end like me, here's a solid resource of harp sellers/makers with their locations: http://dorveille.com/links-resources/harp-makers-sellers/ felgs fucked around with this message at 04:59 on May 2, 2012 |
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May 2, 2012 04:56
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Arsenic posted:And now, thanks to this thread, I have realized I can afford a harp. Meaning the Harpsicle, or the Cardboard Harp Kit? @Arsenic Lupin: Don't let me dissuade you from the harp, but my only hesitation with the lap harp is whether chromaticty for baroque/etc music is an issue to you. Plus hammered dulcimer is arguably the clavichordiest non-keyboard option. I'd mainly suggest tracking down YouTube clips of both in the specific styles that interest you. I also think we have one or two HD players that have posted in this thread who can be pinged. And Felicity as resident harpist. @Nugan: was it a banjo-ukulele, or a mini 5-string banjo? If the latter, was it a Gold Tone Plucky? I used to own one, and they're cute as hell, but if you're just starting banjo a full-size would be easier. On the opposite end, if it was a banjo-uke, sure, those are played exactly like a regular uke but just sound distinct. @Stoca Zola: I have never seen a mouth-harp resto post; that is drat awesome. Sorry for the short posts; am traveling and posting on my phone. So for a few days replies may be rarer or shorter, but I'll be caught back up later in the week.
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May 2, 2012 05:13
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@Tap: Meaning the Sharpsicle or possibly the Flatsicle, both of which can be expanded to a full set of sharping levers should I get seriously into chromatic stuff. To begin with, I'd be very happy if I could play "La Follia" and "Monsieur's Almain" and such like, as well as a dollop of O'Carolan. (I admire viols, but am never ever going to put myself in a situation where I have to worry about bowed tone again.)
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May 2, 2012 15:24
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