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Captain Capitalism posted:Is there a general cube primer? I had stopped playing when a lot of these cards were in standard, so I don't really know where to go. Either way, I'm doing the swiss queues. It's just like drafting anything else, only all of the cards are insanely powerful and there's potential for a few degenerate interactions that they would never print together in a set normally.
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May 1, 2012 15:30
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One big difference I think there is between cube and "normal" limited comes from the high power level of the cards. Most of the time when you draft the normal formats, the quality of your cards should start going down pretty steep after the 20th or so. It's not uncommon to have to play some purely filler creatures for example that are unexciting as hell, but do their job in the deck. In cube, you generally have way more than ~23 potential playable spells, but you still can't really play more because you need mana too. So what this means to some degree is that you might want to prioritize utility lands, manlands, on-colour duals and fetches higher than you initially might think. You play those cards basically over basic lands, they do not compete with the ~23 good spells your deck will most likely still have in the end.
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May 1, 2012 15:45
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I'm definitely with you guys that the pick in that pack is Grim Monolith or Mind Twist. Twist is probably the best black card in Cube but Grim doesn't commmit you to a color which is preferable on P1p1 in Cube. Would you guys be interested in me throwing up a Crack-a-Pack from my Cube every once in a while for discussion? I definitely think this thread could use more QBerting now that MTGO Cube is a thing (plus my Cube is a balanced, unpowered version of MTGO's so it's not too too disimilar).
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May 1, 2012 17:16
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weekly font posted:Would you guys be interested in me throwing up a Crack-a-Pack from my Cube every once in a while for discussion? I definitely think this thread could use more QBerting now that MTGO Cube is a thing (plus my Cube is a balanced, unpowered version of MTGO's so it's not too too disimilar). Sure. I will also post some scenarios from my powered cube. It's lot of fun and you get to hear other opinions as well.
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May 1, 2012 18:02
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Da Monk posted:Sure. I will also post some scenarios from my powered cube. It's lot of fun and you get to hear other opinions as well. I hear that Black Lotus is a pretty good card, confirm/deny?
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May 1, 2012 18:14
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I hear that Black Lotus is a pretty good card, confirm/deny? It's OK  With that said Library of Alexandria is possibly my favorite.
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May 1, 2012 18:22
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Da Monk posted:Sure. I will also post some scenarios from my powered cube. It's lot of fun and you get to hear other opinions as well. Nice! I'm interested in playing with power but it scares me. The most powerful I go is Sol Ring, Library, Mind Twist.
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May 1, 2012 18:30
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weekly font posted:Nice! I'm interested in playing with power but it scares me. The most powerful I go is Sol Ring, Library, Mind Twist. Most pros I've heard say that Sol Ring is the best card in Magic in a cube. Better than Black Lotus, better than Moxen, better than Ancestral Recall. LSV says he doesn't think it belongs in cubes because it is the correct first pick in every conceivable situation for every conceivable deck, and playing it on turn 1 essentially means the game is over. What I'm saying is, don't put Sol Ring in your cubes, or if you do, there's no point in not also adding power.
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May 1, 2012 18:53
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Ashenai posted:Most pros I've heard say that Sol Ring is the best card in Magic in a cube. Better than Black Lotus, better than Moxen, better than Ancestral Recall. LSV says he doesn't think it belongs in cubes because it is the correct first pick in every conceivable situation for every conceivable deck, and playing it on turn 1 essentially means the game is over. It makes sense, really. Lotus is 4-2-3 (or 1-5-3 or what have you), and a Mox is 2-3-4, but a turn 1 Sol Ring jumps you straight to 3 mana turn two, which is really incredibly powerful. So it's basically 0-4-5
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May 1, 2012 19:23
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Look on my lovely draft, ye goons, and despair! http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=38j7x http://imgur.com/1TsDE Let this be a lesson to all about trying too hard to force a color combination based on a P1P1 card. Yeah Huntmaster is a beast, but the rest of my deck suffered, and I didn't even notice stuff like four Loyal Cathars and some other good white coming through in the first pack. I could have had a great base in white after pack 1, at best going WR or WG with a splash for Huntmaster, at worst not playing the Huntmaster at all, but either way ending up with something better than what I got. Oh well, lesson learned.
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May 1, 2012 20:21
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Yeah the Sol Ring could easily be one of the first things that comes out but I believe to date no one has gotten it on turn 1 to swing the game in any massive ways, so for now it simply works with the cube.
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May 1, 2012 20:23
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The Lord of Hats posted:It makes sense, really. Lotus is 4-2-3 (or 1-5-3 or what have you), and a Mox is 2-3-4, but a turn 1 Sol Ring jumps you straight to 3 mana turn two, which is really incredibly powerful. So it's basically 0-4-5
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May 1, 2012 20:29
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We play a weekly sealed league here (6 packs you first week, one each week after) instead of frequent events. We did a short league this time (4 weeks with three required matches a week instead of 8 weeks and 2 matches) of mostly M12. It's honestly my favorite way to do limited. I ended up in a tie for second with this R/B: 2 Bloodrage Vampire 2 vampire outcasts 2 tormented soul 2 gravedigger 1 child of the night 1 goblin fireslinger 1 goblin arsonist 2 cemetery reaper 1 chandra's phoenix 1 sorin's thirst 2 chandra's outrage 1 lava axe 2 dark favor 1 act of treason 1 lava axe 1 army of the damned 1 liliana of the veil plus basic land. The tormented souls and goblins with my bloodthirsters usually wrecked house, especially with the outcasts coming down as 4/4 lifelink. Drop dark favor on tormented soul or a lifelink for more fun. Drew army of the damned on the last week and never got to play it though. Twin cemetery reapers could churn out a pretty decent army given enough time, too. First place ran W/G, and even though I beat him, he won more matches than anyone else. The other person tied for second was running R/B as well, though I usually edged him out when we played. I fell behind in early ranking due to someone pulling a first week Gideon Jura though.
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May 1, 2012 20:51
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Cube drafting is basically playing your favourite deck. That's why LSV plays the aggro red deck because he likes punishing durdling in a format with a lot of durdling. PV likes to play the durdly control deck. Conley wants to destroy lands. Wescoe's going to play 2/2's for 2s. Don't pick swords or Jitte if you don't like creature decks; you're still going to end up with a powerful deck. Plus it's pretty cheap anyway so just have fun!
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May 1, 2012 20:57
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I also think Library and Mind Twist are terrible cube cards. Cooperfauss actually discussed this in his article, but basically the thing with those cards is that they are almost unbeatable if they are in your opener and almost worthless after about turn 5. I think the same could probably be said for things like Ancestral Visions and Lotus Bloom from the MODO cube. Definitely post more cube sample packs, it's a fun exercise.
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May 1, 2012 21:14
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All I know is that if I ever see Mimic Vat pop up in a draft, no matter what I might have been drafting, I snap it up and go to town on all the value cards. Loxodon Hierarch is great. Solemn Simulacrum is great. Angel of Despair is sick. Kokusho is just brutal. Yosei is just ridiculous. I once won a game by Vatting an opponent's Avalanche Riders; he got pretty pissed off at that.
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May 1, 2012 21:33
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I really wish Progenitus was in the cube so that Dream Halls and NO would be legit build-arounds.
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May 1, 2012 21:46
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What is the purpose of picking cards like Obliterate? I guess the goal is to have a creature or something that is indestructible, but is there something I'm missing?
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May 1, 2012 22:08
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Captain Capitalism posted:What is the purpose of picking cards like Obliterate? I guess the goal is to have a creature or something that is indestructible, but is there something I'm missing? Well, that's one option. Or you could play enchantments and/or planeswalkers (Obliterate leaves them alone.) Or Undying creatures (I'm not sure there are any in this cube.) Or Greater Gargadon. Or, you can generate 14 mana, play Obliterate, and then play a 6-drop they (probably) won't be able to deal with. It does require a bit of creativity to use: you'll never want to just put it in a deck without having a plan to abuse it. There's a lot of fun stuff you can do with it, though.
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May 1, 2012 22:25
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Captain Capitalism posted:What is the purpose of picking cards like Obliterate? I guess the goal is to have a creature or something that is indestructible, but is there something I'm missing? Or an Enchantment or Planeswalker that will stick around and so something big. I don't think Obliterate is usually picked very highly because Wildfire (and the billion other Wildfire effects in this Cube) is a lot easier to abuse, but I might be wrong.
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May 1, 2012 22:25
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Ashenai posted:Well, that's one option. Or you could play enchantments and/or planeswalkers (Obliterate leaves them alone.) Or Undying creatures (I'm not sure there are any in this cube.) Or Greater Gargadon. Or, you can generate 14 mana, play Obliterate, and then play a 6-drop they (probably) won't be able to deal with. Having lived the dream of Obliterate + Greater Gargadon and other random enchantments and planeswalkers and poo poo, I can say it is pretty fun. Need to build your deck pretty focused to abuse it, and that doesn't generally leave you behind if you don't draw it. (I mean, most enchantments and planeswalkers are pretty good, so).
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May 1, 2012 22:31
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quote:What is the purpose of picking cards like Obliterate? I guess the goal is to have a creature or something that is indestructible, but is there something I'm missing? In general, you can also abuse affects like this just by knowing it's coming; you save up a few lands in hand and maybe a cheap creature or two, you destroy the world, and then you recover much faster than they do and win. This works well if you don't draw a combo, and the game has stalled - but that's a fairly low percentage scenario. I'd need a pretty strong combo to play Obliterate.
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May 2, 2012 00:13
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Ashenai posted:Well, that's one option. Or you could play enchantments and/or planeswalkers (Obliterate leaves them alone.) Or Undying creatures (I'm not sure there are any in this cube.) Or Greater Gargadon. Or, you can generate 14 mana, play Obliterate, and then play a 6-drop they (probably) won't be able to deal with. Just the fact that this happens during one's own turn makes room for so many crazy things. Upheaval can easily turn a game around as well.
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May 2, 2012 00:37
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weekly font posted:Yeah the Sol Ring could easily be one of the first things that comes out but I believe to date no one has gotten it on turn 1 to swing the game in any massive ways, so for now it simply works with the cube. This is what happens when I say things like this. Today my friend got it on turn one with Mono-Red into Thran Dynamo and *ffffarrrrt*
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May 2, 2012 03:26
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Daunte Vicknabb posted:I also think Library and Mind Twist are terrible cube cards. Cooperfauss actually discussed this in his article, but basically the thing with those cards is that they are almost unbeatable if they are in your opener and almost worthless after about turn 5. I think the same could probably be said for things like Ancestral Visions and Lotus Bloom from the MODO cube. Library is the mythic rare of Cubes. Also, Recurring Nightmare (once saw someone go Palinchron + Wurmcoil Engine = infinite lifelink tokens). Moxes, planeswalkers, equipment (Jitte, Swords) are rare. (i.e. the either go in almost any deck or have a huge recurring impact on the game). A few other things are sweet, like Mana Drain, Survival of the Fittest, Balance, etc. Everything else is uncommon/common (i.e. not windmill slam first picks). Sol Ring, however, is on the level of Zendikar's Hidden Treasure. I don't plan to ever run it in my Cube.
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May 2, 2012 03:38
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Speaking of cubes, I'm thinking of making one based around the mechanics of Kicker, Flashback, Level Up, and Soulbond (Morbid for Black). I'll throw in non-broken nostalgia staples (i.e. Counterspell, Lightning Bolt, StP and not Sol Ring, Ancestral, etc) and a dash of proliferate to round things out. Any thought on these specific mechanics and how they'll play with each other?
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May 2, 2012 03:51
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Just opened a Sorin P1P1, then got P3P1 Dearly Departed, P3P2 Geist Honoured Monk, P3P3 Reaper from the Abyss. Oh, and I have 3 Victim of Nights. This should be interesting.
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May 2, 2012 03:53
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whydirt posted:Speaking of cubes, I'm thinking of making one based around the mechanics of Kicker, Flashback, Level Up, and Soulbond (Morbid for Black). I'll throw in non-broken nostalgia staples (i.e. Counterspell, Lightning Bolt, StP and not Sol Ring, Ancestral, etc) and a dash of proliferate to round things out. You may only run this cube if it has this in it. I would probably also add Entwine cards.
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May 2, 2012 04:00
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whydirt posted:Speaking of cubes, I'm thinking of making one based around the mechanics of Kicker, Flashback, Level Up, and Soulbond (Morbid for Black). I'll throw in non-broken nostalgia staples (i.e. Counterspell, Lightning Bolt, StP and not Sol Ring, Ancestral, etc) and a dash of proliferate to round things out. If you don't use Blast From The Past in this you're a bad, bad person. edit: oh holy poo poo
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May 2, 2012 04:09
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whydirt posted:Any thought on these specific mechanics and how they'll play with each other? I'd be careful with Level Up in that mix. There are a few creatures with the ability that are good in most places (Kargan Dragonlord, Student of Warfare, Lighthouse Chronologist if your cube is kind of silly), but most are pretty mediocre and significantly under that power level. Which is fine, but all but the very best levelers look a lot worse in a format that has StP, Bolt, presumably Path, etc. Good, cheap, instant-speed removal really makes those dudes terrible because they're vulnerable mana-sinks that can easily leave you behind a turn. I like the idea of Proliferate a lot though. If you can get some sweet counter-based things in there that would be a fun mechanic. Same deal to a lesser extent with Soulbond. I would speculate that AVR is very light on removal just because Soulbond guys are so open to 2-for-1 blowouts. A low-removal cube with lots of creature-based interactions and levelers sounds fun to me, though, if that's your thing!
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May 2, 2012 04:14
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A serious discussion on whether or not to replace Sol Ring with Chaos Orb is happening now. And not that pussy "colorless vindicate" poo poo either.
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May 2, 2012 04:28
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Thanks to all of you for your advice!Niton posted:You may only run this cube if it has this in it. I would probably also add Entwine cards. I thought about Entwine, but A) I feel like I've got enough mechanics stuffed into the cube and want to keep things somewhat manageable for newer players and B) my current card list is already leaning toward being more spell-heavy and creature-light than I'd like it to be. TheGame posted:I'd be careful with Level Up in that mix. There are a few creatures with the ability that are good in most places (Kargan Dragonlord, Student of Warfare, Lighthouse Chronologist if your cube is kind of silly), but most are pretty mediocre and significantly under that power level. Which is fine, but all but the very best levelers look a lot worse in a format that has StP, Bolt, presumably Path, etc. Good, cheap, instant-speed removal really makes those dudes terrible because they're vulnerable mana-sinks that can easily leave you behind a turn. I like the idea of Proliferate a lot though. If you can get some sweet counter-based things in there that would be a fun mechanic. I'll keep this in mind as a start to actually acquire all the cards and put it together. I feel like I'm doing okay at keeping removal sparse enough that the card list feels closer to regular limited and not constructed, but I guess the real test will come when I get a chance to playtest it for real. I'm sticking in Serrated Arrows to get some Homelands cred and it's pretty bonkers with any source of Proliferate. edit: How do Clone effects work with leveling dudes anyway? whydirt fucked around with this message at 05:42 on May 2, 2012 |
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May 2, 2012 05:23
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weekly font posted:A serious discussion on whether or not to replace Sol Ring with Chaos Orb is happening now. And not that pussy "colorless vindicate" poo poo either. Chaos Orb sucks because it forces everyone to space out their cards stupidly or risk a ridiculous blowout.
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May 2, 2012 05:59
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weekly font posted:A serious discussion on whether or not to replace Sol Ring with Chaos Orb is happening now. And not that pussy "colorless vindicate" poo poo either. My friend has an over sized Chaos Orb for his cube to go along with the Alpha/Beta (I forget which one) he just ordered. When you activate the regular one, you get to toss the big one.
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May 2, 2012 14:55
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whydirt posted:edit: How do Clone effects work with leveling dudes anyway? you get a copy of the card as printed. you don't get any of the counters, including level counters.
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May 2, 2012 15:06
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Can you then level up the clone independently afterward?
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May 2, 2012 15:44
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Yeah, the clone will start as a version of that creature with 0 counters (level 0). Its Level Up cost will be the same as the copied creature's, and it will have all abilities and P/T of the copied creature at each appropriate level. It's basically treated as playing a new copy of that creature.
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May 2, 2012 16:36
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Wezlar posted:Chaos Orb sucks because it forces everyone to space out their cards stupidly or risk a ridiculous blowout.
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May 2, 2012 16:42
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Zero_Grade posted:This is only part of the reason why Chaos Orb owns forever. Is there any rule preventing you from playing your cards under a net or perhaps a fine mesh of some kind, like the ones they use for trapeze artists but card-sized? Or putting a very powerful electric fan above the table.
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May 2, 2012 16:59
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Maintenance is done and MTGO cube drafts are now back online. Time for some fun. Just started a swiss cube draft right now. Have Elesh Norn, Garruk Relentless, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Baneslayer, and Thrun as my first five picks. I always like green/white, especially if I can get mirari's wake and behemoth sledge. Edit: Deck ended up a little awkward, but maybe it will get me somewhere. http://i.imgur.com/SZUt8.jpg Oh god, the first guy got the mirari's wake, and a bunch of ramp himself. Turn four primeval titan, attacking with sword of feast and famine equipped. That ended the game quickly. Second game I got blown out by sword again, given that my only blockers at the time were green. Then I got plow undered right before I was going to cast Akroma. Ha, I cast a genesis wave in match 2, then completely clicked past the 'select what you want to cast' prompt, not casting anything. Whoops. The name of the guy I played was familiar. kjbreedlove. He spent most of the match complaining, while I stayed silent. I still won, despite a bunch of fuckups on my part. Rancor on Thrun makes a nice little creature. Ended up winning match 3 against mono-red aggro. Garruk was a real help in the midgame, and a rancored baneslayer cleaned up. 2-1 isn't too terrible for my first cube draft of this week. Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 19:14 on May 2, 2012 |
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May 2, 2012 17:06
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