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Crazy Ferret posted:Merc stuff Awesome, I'm loving all the feedback, goons! I think I'm going to go with this list, thank you. Headed down to the shop to place this order, then I'm going to paint everything yellow with a splash of black.
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May 1, 2012 16:23
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Chance II posted:I'm looking at what I want to expand my collection. I feel like moving on from Khador and I like a lot of the infantry in Cygnar but I'm not sure I want to get in that faction. I'm really looking at mercenaries because It gives me a choice of a number of irregulars from other factions. You're pretty much rolling a similar progression to me. I started with Winterguard Death Star, played with Juggie/Man-o-War, then moved to Ashlynn to feel like I had some difference. Basically Ashlynn is all about the feat turn. She is pretty great in melee and can hold her own with nothing else on the table, but few will be foolish enough to let Ashlynn get at their caster. Anastasia helps with that. I prefer also having Madelyn Corbeau to help move around as well. Rutger never really impresses me. You're staying in the tier list, so it's hard to have much else there. When I really got going in her tier I defended with a line of Precursors, their UA will let ATGM shoot past them. That's if you have to stay in that tier. If you want out of it, look at Forge Guard. Also Quicken doesn't really have a place in that army to shine, but the Forge Guard are just scary when they have it. For 25 you're okay... you'll have a little trouble if someone brings a big jack, but the Vanguards are surprisingly good at stuff and might handle that. If you decide on going any bigger, you want a Mule marshalled to the ATGM. And if you have a question of "Will this work with Ashlynn?" answer it with "Does it have a critical effect?" Ashcans will have more to add. I also run a bunch of different Ashlynn lists depending on how I feel that day, so if you're willing to break her tier I have more advice. She's really solid for a Merc, I've never really lost without me feeling like it was because I made a mistake... or it was against Legion. Note that her Riposte attacks are optional. Raiche fucked around with this message at 16:28 on May 1, 2012 |
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May 1, 2012 16:25
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Thanks for the feedback! I was looking at using Precursors at 35 pts so it is good to know that they work well with the gun mages. I might drop Rutger but I'm not sure what I want to use those points on. I like the Tier list but what other lists work well with her? I like here and Magnus' teir lists because of the extra access to Cygnar infantry units.
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May 1, 2012 16:38
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Chance II posted:Thanks for the feedback! I was looking at using Precursors at 35 pts so it is good to know that they work well with the gun mages. I might drop Rutger but I'm not sure what I want to use those points on. I like the Tier list but what other lists work well with her? I like here and Magnus' teir lists because of the extra access to Cygnar infantry units. Madelyn for Rutger's spot! She works fine within the Highborne contract. That lets you take either a unit of ATGM or Long Gunners, I'd say stick with the ATGM + UA + Mule. The Precursors are pretty cool but I'm not sure they justify not having other good stuff, like Nyss or Alexia. All you really lose staying out of her tier is a higher allowance of ATGM and the Precursors. I rarely play 25, so this isn't very good, but I might try: Faction: Highborn Covenant Casters: 1/1 Points: 25/25 Ashlynn d'Elyse (*6pts) * Vanguard (5pts) * Vanguard (5pts) Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts) * Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts) * * Mule (8pts) Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts) At 35 I could work in some solos like Anastasia, Ayana+Holt and maybe units like Alexia or Nyss.
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May 1, 2012 16:45
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Chance II posted:I'm looking at what I want to expand my collection. I feel like moving on from Khador and I like a lot of the infantry in Cygnar but I'm not sure I want to get in that faction. I'm really looking at mercenaries because It gives me a choice of a number of irregulars from other factions. I play Ashlynn pretty much all the time, although I generally do not use her theme list. I think that the short answer for you is that 25pts is a really low level to try and hit her theme in a useful way. First off, I don't think I would bother with Rutger unless you happen to own him already. I understand it's tempting to take him with Taryn for their little team, but at 25pts Gorman or Rhupert is a much better choice. The second thing is that are kind of lacking a good punch. The amount of gunfire you are bringing will tear up infantry and light stuff, but you are going to have trouble with anything high ARM. Even with Brutal Damage (which Ashlynn will let you get reliably for at least one turn) you're only PS10+3D6. If your opponent has a handful of heavy jacks of beasts, it will be a real headache. That's why I suggest ditching Rutget for Gorman - Black Oil and Rust Bomb will help you wrangle stuff you can't damage fast enough. Like I said, at 25pts it's just really difficult to stick to her theme, especially if you want T4. You would probably be better served trying to fit in a Mule (marshalled) or a Nomad (with Ashlynn) so that you have some sort of beater in there. You could also try and put in the Prescursors, although its a big investment for the whole thing. Edit: If you are willing to break theme, Raiche's list above is pretty solid. The Forge Guard will give you plenty of punch and work well with Ashlynn in general, and the Mule is great with the ATGMs. You could drop a Vanguard for Gorman + another solo, but Vanguards are great jacks so taking two is not a bad choice. Ashcans fucked around with this message at 16:53 on May 1, 2012 |
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May 1, 2012 16:47
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Ashcans posted:First off, I don't think I would bother with Rutger unless you happen to own him already. I understand it's tempting to take him with Taryn for their little team, but at 25pts Gorman or Rhupert is a much better choice. I neglected to note that Precursors = awesome with Rhupert giving them tough. That was bad of me. Ashcans also makes a solid argument for Gorman and I think I will take that advice in the future. I LOVE the modular nature of 2pt solos. Bye Taryn, hello Gorman. Ashlynn is a +6, and the Vanguard is a 5pt jack, that is why you always see two Vanguards with her. It is not necessary at all if you like a more expensive warjack or are willing to chuck that +1. I really recommend two Vanguards though. Ashlynn runs solo-heavy and Vanguards LOVE to eat ranged attacks targetting solos. They also are morale shattering when used to block charge lanes. I have had opponents yell "Why won't that drat light jack DIE?!"
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May 1, 2012 17:00
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Hmm, well I'll definately swap out Rutger for Gorman. I think Ill play around with the numbers and see what fits. I'll probably drop her tier and I'm thinking about putting in a unit of Precursors rather than Alexia since they seem pretty cool fluff wise for Ashlyn.
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May 1, 2012 17:08
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Edit: ^^^ Alexia is great, but she is more of a support choice than a main line unit. The Risen aren't good enough to do more than get in the way and serve as fuel for her. So I definitely recommend picking up a more sturdy unit to be your base. Precursors can do that fine (bear in mind that if you are using Precursors you will not be able to use Alexia at all), and so can Forge Guard or even Steelheads. Vanguards are really just amazing. Even though they max at PS13, their offense is pretty solid with Reach and Assault. But they really shine defensively. DEF13/ARM19 is stupid good, and Set Defense just makes it insulting. I had a Cygnar player decide he could take an Iron Clad past one, and had its Free Strike cripple his arm. Whoops! Advice for using Ashlynn: timing her feat is really important. You want to maximize the amount of stuff (yours and theirs) that it catches to get the best effect. For a lot of my early games I held onto it way too long, trying to use it to help me finish off the other player. Don't do that! Use it early in, ideally when the engagement is just starting, and you can get a really good turn in with all your stuff. That shifts the balance of the game in your favor, and will help put you in a position to close later on. Ashcans fucked around with this message at 18:02 on May 1, 2012 |
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May 1, 2012 17:15
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Ashcans posted:Vanguards are really just amazing. Even though they max at PS13, their offense is pretty solid with Reach and Assault. But they really shine defensively. DEF13/ARM19 is stupid good, and Set Defense just makes it insulting. I had a Cygnar player decide he could take an Iron Clad past one, and had its Free Strike cripple his arm. Whoops! When you play Ashlynn you're gambling, moreso than any other caster. So resign yourself to that fact and play towards it. If positioning your Gun Mages in the center of the board so they can try to crit brutal key models is a possibility, do it. Chances are no one will hit them. The same goes for solos and even Ashlynn. You would be amazed at how easy it is to position Anastasia for a devastating post-feat round when Roulette is going. Don't take stupid risks, but take risks other casters wouldn't. I've even been known to let Ashlynn get charged on feat round, ripostes are amazing that turn (that may be -too- risky, but it's fun!)
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May 1, 2012 17:50
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I will definitely throw Ashlynn out there on the feat turn to get as much stuff into Roulette as possible. DEF17 under Roulette is really hard to hit, especially with the benefit of Riposte and Quick Draw. If I'm worried I put Quicken on her and Keep Rocinante nearby, making her DEF19 against ranged, magic, and melee. Generally speaking it's really feasible to use Roulette defensively, to ensure that if the enemy charges in his turn his attacks will fall flat and leave you to counterattack. Of course, the following turn you need to be ready to pull Ashlynn out of harm's way so that she doesn't stay dorking around the front line after the protection of Roulette is gone.
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May 1, 2012 18:14
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Mikael Kreoss posted:I suffer a little on the inside whenever I see the OP of the Warmachine thread next to a filthy ork avatar. Guess I better post more then 
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May 1, 2012 18:19
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I've run ashlynn for fun with a nomad on her, ATGM + dude with a mule on them, max forgeguard and some solos. It worked well and I really dig the forgeguard with her, with Quicken they can get +2 speed, so they will actually get somewhere and charge stuff. They're also pretty survivable with quicken on them as well as their own defensive line, making them 12/18 against shooting. The only problem I had with them is Ashlynn's feat not working defensively on the guard, def 10 in melee is easy to hit even with roulette up. But in that case, hopefully you charged and wrecked some stuff first.
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May 1, 2012 18:32
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Willeh posted:I've run ashlynn for fun with a nomad on her, ATGM + dude with a mule on them, max forgeguard and some solos. It worked well and I really dig the forgeguard with her, with Quicken they can get +2 speed, so they will actually get somewhere and charge stuff. They're also pretty survivable with quicken on them as well as their own defensive line, making them 12/18 against shooting. That's why you cover your Forge Guard with Risen! Or stick Vanguards in front of them. Give up the charge, and instead laugh evilly as their hammers critical on feat turn. Pretty much.. Forge Guard are going to die. Best that Alexia be nearby so that they serve twice! Sadly that requires the sort of brick that can never take more than a single control point at a time.
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May 1, 2012 18:43
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I was thinking of a jack heavy menoth list and I came up with this: Faction: Protectorate of Menoth 35 point army Warcaster: High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza +6 WJ points Jacks Reckoner 8-6=2 pts Castigator 8 pts Devout 5 pts Vigilant 4 pts Units Choir full 3 pts The Covenant 2 pts Hierophant 2 pts Vassal x 2 (4 pts) Vassal Mechanik x 2 (2 pts) Wrack 1 pts Gorman De Wulfe 2 pts My plan would be to keep the heavies up front with the Reckoner softening up targets for the Castigator to burn and throw. The vassals will follow them and be casting either enliven or anciliary shot. The Devout and Vigilant will guard Amon from being shot up while advancing while the hierophant provdies spell discounts. The mechaniks would be split, one for the heavy group, one for the light. The Covenant would sit in the middle providing no knockdowns to all. Gorman would stealth behind the heavies as well and drop clouds before hucking blind and rust at enemies. Advice?
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May 1, 2012 19:44
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Chance II posted:Hmm, well I'll definately swap out Rutger for Gorman. I think Ill play around with the numbers and see what fits. I'll probably drop her tier and I'm thinking about putting in a unit of Precursors rather than Alexia since they seem pretty cool fluff wise for Ashlyn. I bought my Precursors for my Constance Blaize list, but I've been using them with Ashlynn too. They impressed the hell out of me! With Rupert they're extremely hardy and blessed weapons and ranked attacks are super ace, the big downside being that you can't quicken them. Oh and minifeat turn wrecks fools forever. I usually have quicken on the gun mages or Ashlynn then, with admonition on my Mule (gently caress you I'll shoot all day).
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May 1, 2012 20:31
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S.J. posted:Guess I better post more then 
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May 1, 2012 20:37
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gobbledygoat posted:I bought my Precursors for my Constance Blaize list, but I've been using them with Ashlynn too. They impressed the hell out of me! With Rupert they're extremely hardy and blessed weapons and ranked attacks are super ace, the big downside being that you can't quicken them. Oh and minifeat turn wrecks fools forever. I usually have quicken on the gun mages or Ashlynn then, with admonition on my Mule (gently caress you I'll shoot all day). The more I look at them, the more I like them. I was thinking of dropping a Vanguard and pairing the Precursors with a Gallant. The big thing is a lot of guys in out gaming group like to through a lot of spells around and the Precursors seem like a good thematic defense against that.
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May 1, 2012 20:45
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Bell of Lost Souls has a minor spoiler up for Threemo. Apparently his weapon lets him call down a lightning strike anywhere in his ctrl that then arcs d3 lightning jumps. Pretty nice ranged attack.
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May 1, 2012 21:12
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So I was about to buy some 40k stuff when my friend, who knows how unhappy I am with 40k's rules, said "Why don't we try Warmachine." So here I am. Is the Cryx starter any good? What are some good avenues of expansion from there, and why? I've already bought it(and halfway painted it), so hopefully I came out okay.
counterspin fucked around with this message at 21:35 on May 1, 2012 |
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May 1, 2012 21:31
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counterspin posted:So I was about to buy some 40k stuff when my friend, who knows how unhappy I am with 40k's rules, said "Why don't we try Warmachine." So here I am. Is the Cryx starter any good? What are some good avenues of expansion from there, and why? I've already bought it(and halfway painted it), so hopefully I came out okay. Cryx's starter box is awesome, Deneghra1 is one of the best casters in the game, the Slayer is a solid jack, and you get 3 arcnodes for all your spell slinging goodness. What do you want to get into with the game? Infantry? More warjacks? If it's infantry, you really can't go wrong w/ bane thralls, their unit attachment, and Bane Lord Tartarus.
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May 1, 2012 21:43
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I think I'd like to do jacks because it will let me get a decent size army with a comparatively low painting time investment, but I'm not sure yet. Are there any particularly awesome models in the Cryx warmachine stable that I could buy because they're awesome looking? That's my only real requirement at this stage. What is Cryx's place in the Warmachine universe? What are they supposed to be good at, when you compare them to other armies?
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May 1, 2012 22:03
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counterspin posted:What is Cryx's place in the Warmachine universe? What are they supposed to be good at, when you compare them to other armies? The OP would be my recommendation for a good place to start. The summaries are pretty good. The Originator of this Fine Thread posted:Cryx! Playstyle of Deneghra: 1. Find Opponents Most Powerful Unit/Solo/Jack/Beast 2. Ready your jewel encrusted goblet 3. Cast Crippling Grasp 4. Gather sweet sweet tears dexefiend fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 1, 2012 |
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May 1, 2012 22:13
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I should have checked the OP, silly of me. Thanks for the reply. I even had the right idea about what to do with Denegra, which is encouraging. Now all I have to do is put together the metal warpwolf my buddy bought, since he's never done any real modelling before. *twitch* I put one together for a 40k project, and somehow I'm in this horrible place again, alone, with nothing but my pin vice and some green stuff. This thing is a crime against nature.
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May 1, 2012 22:22
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counterspin posted:I should have checked the OP, silly of me. Thanks for the reply. I even had the right idea about what to do with Denegra, which is encouraging. Give him a hand drill and some bandaids, make him earn his right to play.
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May 1, 2012 22:28
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^^^^^^^^True that. I've lost so many fingertips to superglue and exactoknives that I probably need to be re-fingerprinted. Models kill better when they're made with real blood. 
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May 2, 2012 01:44
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counterspin posted:I think I'd like to do jacks because it will let me get a decent size army with a comparatively low painting time investment, but I'm not sure yet. Are there any particularly awesome models in the Cryx warmachine stable that I could buy because they're awesome looking? That's my only real requirement at this stage. Terminus, terminus is amazing. However he hates warjacks and loves infantry. You'll use his warjack points and buy one cheap one, but never any more. However the full Terminus brick army with shitloads of zombies and other infantry looks amazing.
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May 2, 2012 02:12
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counterspin posted:I think I'd like to do jacks because it will let me get a decent size army with a comparatively low painting time investment, but I'm not sure yet. Are there any particularly awesome models in the Cryx warmachine stable that I could buy because they're awesome looking? That's my only real requirement at this stage. If you want a low model count jack army to get into the game, start with E Skarre. You'll be able to throw in some infantry, probably Banes or Statyxis Raiders, and the rest can be the best Jacks in Cryx (namely Deathjack, but also Seethers, Nightmare and whatever else Cryx uses to stomp people, plus some Bone Jacks for arcing) and their support staff like Warwitch Sirens and the Withershadow Combine. There's less investment required and the models you'll use to build it can be used with other casters. To top it off, E Skarre is one of the best warcasters in the game. She has a good spell list full of cool movement tricks and her feat is bonkers. Chicken Slayer fucked around with this message at 02:31 on May 2, 2012 |
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May 2, 2012 02:29
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I'm gonna disagree on Skaare2. I'm in the same boat, (relatively new to the game, learning Cryx) and Asphyxious1 is a much more straight forward caster, and is way easier to learn with. Don't get me wrong, Skaare2 is cool as hell, but not something I'd recommend to someone learning the game.
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May 2, 2012 02:49
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Aspyxious1 is a bad motherfucker and super fun to play. Hes definitely my "next caster" recommendation from the cryx battle box. Or you can be like me and never bother with Deneghra1
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May 2, 2012 04:48
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S.J. posted:Guess I better post more then I agree, you should post more. 
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May 2, 2012 05:08
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PaintVagrant posted:Aspyxious1 is a bad motherfucker and super fun to play. Hes definitely my "next caster" recommendation from the cryx battle box. Or you can be like me and never bother with Deneghra1 I'd say that people should skip Denegrah1 as new players too. She is super well known so easy for veterans to play against and at the same time pretty hard to combo out for new players. Asphixious1 and maybe even 2 are great and straightforward but Asphixious2 has a much more expensive troop centric army.
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May 2, 2012 05:21
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So I banged out these guys over the last couple days for my wife's Circle army. I'm pretty pleased with how they turned out, though I'm afraid her army is going to look better than mine since it is more recently painted. Oh well.
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May 2, 2012 05:34
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Those are super nice standing stones and stone keeper. My wife plays Circle too, I can't let her see those or she will demand a similar job on hers. ~~~ I'm running into a situation that's pretty frustrating. I don't know if it's my inferior tactical ability or just a bad list. My good buddy plays Cygnar, and we played several games today and I just couldn't do enough to his line. From what I understand (I don't play Cygnar) He ran: System: Warmachine Faction: Cygnar Casters: 1/1 Points: 50/50 Commander Coleman Stryker (*6pts) * Grenadier (5pts) * Lancer (6pts) * Ol' Rowdy (9pts) Long Gunner Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts) * Long Gunner Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts) Stormblade Infantry and UA Trencher Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts) * Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper (3pts) Captain Maxwell Finn (3pts) I ran the following list: System: Warmachine Faction: Khador Casters: 1/1 Points: 50/50 Supreme Kommandant Irusk (*5pts) * Behemoth (13pts) * Destroyer (9pts) Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 5 Grunts) (6pts) * Koldun Kapitan Valachev (2pts) Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts) Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts) * Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts) * 3 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeers (3pts) Winter Guard Mortar Crew (Leader and Grunt) (3pts) Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts) Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich (2pts) Widowmaker Marksman (2pts) Both games he went first, and we rolled control points (first to 7). Trenchers get A.D. along with Finn and the grenadier, they basically rush two points, and sit there dug in with smoke screen going up, screening his long gunners which pick off the infantry. I tried hanging back, and diving in -- and it made no difference, he picked them off to the point where I was too spread out to even consider winning either way. What's a good way for Khador to even compete with such large smoke screened areas? I was under the impression that arcing fire would let me ignore smoke but that was a tactical mistake as the smoke screens blocked LOS completely. Verdugo fucked around with this message at 06:18 on May 2, 2012 |
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May 2, 2012 06:15
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Acceptableloss posted:So I banged out these guys over the last couple days for my wife's Circle army. I'm pretty pleased with how they turned out, though I'm afraid her army is going to look better than mine since it is more recently painted. Oh well. Dude this poo poo looks great and I think I'm going to use the left over skeleton warrior sprues in my drawer in a similar way now.
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May 2, 2012 06:21
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Washout posted:I'd say that people should skip Denegrah1 as new players too. She is super well known so easy for veterans to play against and at the same time pretty hard to combo out for new players. Asphixious1 and maybe even 2 are great and straightforward but Asphixious2 has a much more expensive troop centric army. I dunno, even if you know what pDenegrah does and how she does it, dealing with it is another matter. She can take your best unit out of the game with fairly little effort and even if you can get around that somehow her feat is absolutely crippling. She's a great caster for new players and she works well with, well, anything. Only pDenegrah can bring you effective Mat 11 Steelheads with a P+S of 15 or other dumb combos like making Master Gunner Dougal MacNalie a jack-busting badass. She's still a good entry point into the faction though and you shouldn't ignore her just because both versions of Gaspy are bosses (though eAsphixious is a bad pick for a new player I think. Certainly not one without the Banes needed to make a proper list). You guys are right though. eSkarre is a bad pick for a new player. But it is something you can look into as a 3rd or 4th caster to play. Verdugo posted:Trencher Problems Well to start with, Khador has one main non-caster method of getting around clouds, and that is the Spriggan. Targets under one of those Flare templates can be seen through clouds and the Flare itself can be placed regardless of LOS. For your list, you also have eIrusk's feat, which allows your army to ignore cloud effects in addition to everything else it does. Honestly though it's never really a problem because Khador also has access to Winter Guard and lots of blast damage, which they can fling at the models generating the smoke. About that, Trenchers are only immune to Blast Damage when they dig in. They can't move, dig in and throw smoke in the same turn for one because their UA's order specifies that they must perform a combat action when using cautious advance, and throwing smoke isn't one. You'll get at least one turn, probably more, where you can thin out their numbers with blast damage or having your Winter Guard shoot them with the help of Kovnik Joe. You could also just bum rush them. Trenchers lose cover when in combat and their ability to stab people is pretty poor. You'll also gain protection from the Long Gunners in melee too. The simplest way to win is to drop Boomhowler and take Kayazy Assassins. Long Gunners don't ignore stealth and there's no Black 13th in his list. Even if you don't take them if you're taking a meatshield like either Boomhowler or the Assassins, you should max it out because Irusk likes having lots of infantry and having more bodies to benefit from his tough aura is always good. I'd personally change the jack lineup because eIrusk doesn't work very well with the Behemoth compared with other casters and can actually run the cheaper Khador jacks like the Juggernaught really well. If you free up some points on jacks, you can take more mans. Other than that, just play around some more and figure out what works against a rolling smoke wall. You list could do with some more targets for Battle Lust too. EDIT: You could also just take Nyss. They don't ignore clouds, but they do ignore concealment, forests and cover. Chicken Slayer fucked around with this message at 10:55 on May 2, 2012 |
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May 2, 2012 10:48
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Something else with the Winterguard: sprays ignore clouds and concealment. Have Joe call Tough, and Bob and Weave them up toward the Trenchers. Trenches will need 8s to hit and CRAing Long Gunners need 7s. Close quickly, and then you can call for boosted ranged attacks and that's a ton of dead Trenchers. As you advance, Mortars and Behemoth hammer the poo poo out of the Long Gunners. With that many AoEs you'll hammer them into submission fairly easily.
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May 2, 2012 13:53
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Acceptableloss posted:So I banged out these guys over the last couple days for my wife's Circle army. I'm pretty pleased with how they turned out, though I'm afraid her army is going to look better than mine since it is more recently painted. Oh well. Whoa, those stones are some good looking stones.
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May 2, 2012 14:24
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Someone please tell me this guy is as bad rear end as he looks, holy poo poo.  I need to paint my poo poo up quicker and get some games in.
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May 2, 2012 15:06
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Flipswitch posted:Someone please tell me this guy is as bad rear end as he looks, holy poo poo. He's hard as poo poo to kill and he's pretty good, and his tier list is also pretty good. Oh yeah, in the game world he's basically starscream.
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May 2, 2012 15:09
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Hes extremely underrated imo. That being said, his model looks impressive in pictures but in person its very small. Still a cool sculpt though. Ive been theorymachining some jack-heavy, solo-heavy Vindictus lists. Not sure how it would pan out, but I think sac lamb + a few vanquishers + a shitload of zealots sounds pretty neat.
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May 2, 2012 16:51
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