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skipdogg posted:I'm almost positive the ST does NOT have it like the Euro RS Focus. I remember reading it somewhere on a different forum. There was also some bitching about it not having a true LSD maybe? It uses the brakes or something to compensate? I'll try to dig around and find the info. Well the anti Torque Steer setup might work fine, but it is a bummer the LSD didn't get mentioned. Hopefully with this power and the true success of the LSD on the RS, they wouldn't be stupid and leave something like that out. 250+ HP in a FWD car with no LSD would be a big letdown.
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May 2, 2012 22:59
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discstickers posted:I'm emailing dealerships to get offers, some people are apparently getting under MSRP. One guy asked me what I wanted to pay,
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May 2, 2012 23:22
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skipdogg posted:I'm almost positive the ST does NOT have it like the Euro RS Focus. I remember reading it somewhere on a different forum. There was also some bitching about it not having a true LSD maybe? It uses the brakes or something to compensate? I'll try to dig around and find the info. Aren't true LSDs being dropped in favour of brake-based torque vectoring? I know the GTI uses that as opposed to a real LSD.
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May 2, 2012 23:25
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Crustashio posted:Aren't true LSDs being dropped in favour of brake-based torque vectoring? I know the GTI uses that as opposed to a real LSD. And I'm pretty sure Ford has such a system on the SHO as well, which would imply (strongly, I think) that it would be used on an ST or RS.
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May 2, 2012 23:45
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Crustashio posted:Aren't true LSDs being dropped in favour of brake-based torque vectoring? I know the GTI uses that as opposed to a real LSD. I believe the Fiat 500 Abarth also uses a torque-vectoring system.
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May 3, 2012 00:08
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Ok... So if so, how good/bad is it vs a real life LSD? All this high tech crap is good on paper and in some form of testing, but man just another thing to have software/hardware issues down the line and cost an arm/leg and time to fix with stupid techs. :/
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May 3, 2012 00:21
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Faceless Clock posted:No one makes a production car like that. Correct. It's just a proof of concept.
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May 3, 2012 00:22
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So far I can pay a $1000 "market adjustment." I assume that means they're adding a grand to the price? Also, there seems to be two different quick contact forms on Ford dealer sites. One works in Chrome and one doesn't. Cool. Endless Mike fucked around with this message at 00:32 on May 3, 2012 |
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May 3, 2012 00:29
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I live in the god drat frozen tundra, I want some heated seats on my sporty car without also having to purchase HIDZ and loving navigation. Is that too much to ask? [all OEMs reply in concert "yes"]
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May 3, 2012 00:33
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^^^New Dodge Dart has all options a la carte if I'm not mistaken. EDIT: http://www.dart-mouth.com/pricing.html Why haven't you guys who are so gun ho about this new Ford already bought a GTI/LI? It's substantially the same car, except with a DSG available. Sounds to me like another case of something being neat just because it's a domestic company makes it, except it won't sell. That being said I hope the new SRT4 is something really special and befitting of the most fabled nameplate in American car making. There are rumours that it might be AWD, I'm hoping that they somehow put into use the 40/60 transverse Torsen T3 center diff from the old Alfa 159 into it. That's one way to really make it stand out among the competition, which as far as I can tell has been Sergio's MO so far. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 00:39 on May 3, 2012 |
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May 3, 2012 00:36
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The Focus has a 50 HP increase over the GTI and I don't want a DSG, so that's irrelevant. Also, I really like the new Focus and possibly would have bought one if the ST wasn't coming out.
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May 3, 2012 00:38
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Is the Giulietta platform AWD-able? The top-end Alfa Guilietta QV is FWD with an e-diff.
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May 3, 2012 00:51
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Is the Giulietta platform AWD-able? The top-end Alfa Guilietta QV is FWD with an e-diff. Here's pics of the unibody and rear suspension. http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows/geneva/2010/1003_112_2011_alfa_romeo_giulietta/photo_15.html Seems all right to me. At worst they can use a slightly different rear subframe or something, Buick does this with the AWD Lacrosse. I won't rule it out just because the EU model isn't AWD, they don't sell AWD 3 series sedans in Europe either, because Europeans aren't babies terrified of everything. 
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May 3, 2012 01:07
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Throatwarbler posted:Here's pics of the unibody and rear suspension. http://www.bmw.no/no/no/newvehicles/3series/sedan/2011/showroom/dynamics/xdrive.html It says quite clearly right there, FIREHJULSDRIFTSSYSTEM 
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May 3, 2012 01:22
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EdEddnEddy posted:Ok... So if so, how good/bad is it vs a real life LSD? It's way cheaper and requires less maintenance, but it's not quite as good for extreme use. On the GTI, for instance, there's been issues with it cooking your brakes if you're doing long trackdays and stuff like that since the way it works is by applying the brakes on just one side of the car when it detects wheel slip to slow/put torque on that wheel and get the differential to transfer power to the other side. All that extra brake usage in every turn leads to overheating. It's so cheap that even the base-model Focus gets it, though, since it's almost all software and doesn't really require that much more sensor stuff than is already used for electronic traction and stability control. From a purely theoretical perspective, I believe it's also slightly worse in that the braking action actually dissipates some of the power going to the wheels to create the necessary limiting torque while an LSD I think redistributes that power by controlling how connected the two wheels are in some other way, moving any power losses down to slip on the tires from the differential wheelspeed as well as whatever parasitic loss is associated with the LSD itself. But then again, my understanding of what goes on in the various types of LSD is pretty limited, so this might be wrong. But I believe the other weakness to a brake-based system will be that there is no inherent mechanism to transfer or distribute torque to the inside wheel during turns. The main reason to get a Focus ST versus a GTI is cost of ownership. VW parts are expensive as hell and their reliability isn't exactly that much better than Ford's. Also, the GTI looks fat and boring while the Focus has better styling (though it still looks wide and round), and the Focus has more power (though the GTI has a much better interior). And there's a bit of a stigma developing against VW because of all the idiot krauters with their hellaflush nonsense. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 04:49 on May 3, 2012 |
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May 3, 2012 04:36
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So excited to finally see pricing for the ST. Still not sure if it's the car I want, but it's at least in the ballpark I'm looking at.Throatwarbler posted:Why haven't you guys who are so gun ho about this new Ford already bought a GTI/LI? It's substantially the same car, except with a DSG available. Sounds to me like another case of something being neat just because it's a domestic company makes it, except it won't sell. I want to like the GTI. On paper, it's everything I'm looking for in my next car. But the styling just does nothing for me. It's not a bad-looking car, but I can't fall in love with it. And I hate, hate, hate the plaid cloth seats (and not remotely interested in leather) and the rims they coupled with it. If there were different options in those areas without having to go after-market I'd consider it. Not sure what VW was thinking there, but the car seems to be selling, so I guess I'm just not their target demographic. The car I'm really in love with right now is the 2012 style Subaru WRX 5-door. That car is just sexy to me. Not real thrilled about its mileage though. If the Focus ST can get better numbers (really want to see those, not just speculation), it just might be a winner.
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May 3, 2012 05:47
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Endless Mike posted:How do you do this? Just go to the dealer site and fill out forms? Yup. Best offer so far is 500 under MRSP.
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May 3, 2012 06:06
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I'm really happy to see how low the price is on the ST. I've decided that I'm not in the market for one anymore but a used one will be an option in 2-3 years I think.
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May 3, 2012 06:10
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So I read on autoblog that GM's Zeta platform is due for an update to Zeta II, and when they do that Chevy may bring a wagon and ute version to the US. I hate reading car news and knowing that the vehicle I really want is always just a ways off in the future. Now I'm thinking maybe I'm better off buying something used and selling it in a couple years to get... whatever that ends up being, if it actually happens. It also mentioned the Camaro is going to the Alpha platform the ATS is on? That'd be nice to see it get a little smaller. Edit: vv well the G8 is awesome, so I'm just imagining that but as a wagon. davebo fucked around with this message at 18:52 on May 3, 2012 |
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May 3, 2012 18:47
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How do you even know those wagons would be good? It's entirely possible for a wagon to suck rear end. Particularly one developed by GM...
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May 3, 2012 18:49
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The current Commodore wagon is definitely form before function - no where near as cavernous as the older ones. No necessarily a bad thing though.
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May 3, 2012 19:55
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discstickers posted:Yup.
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May 3, 2012 19:57
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davebo posted:So I read on autoblog that GM's Zeta platform is due for an update to Zeta II, and when they do that Chevy may bring a wagon and ute version to the US. I hate reading car news and knowing that the vehicle I really want is always just a ways off in the future. Now I'm thinking maybe I'm better off buying something used and selling it in a couple years to get... whatever that ends up being, if it actually happens. What's stopping you from buying a CTS wagon right now?
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May 3, 2012 23:48
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Throatwarbler posted:What's stopping you from buying a CTS wagon right now? I'm guessing the fact that it's twice the price of the camaro with the same engine, and on the same platform as the holden wagon.
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May 4, 2012 00:16
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davebo posted:
Why not look into a Dodge Magnum? If it is a cheap, RWD, V8 wagon that you want, I think it is your only option right now. Plus, they aren't terribly expensive either.
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May 4, 2012 04:42
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oRenj9 posted:Why not look into a Dodge Magnum? If it is a cheap, RWD, V8 wagon that you want, I think it is your only option right now. Plus, they aren't terribly expensive either. Well the reason I don't get a CTS wagon is mainly price but yeah, the Magnum is okay but a 4 speed auto just feels outdated at this point and I'd really prefer a new car since I tend to keep cars more than 10 years and reliability is essential. Also I'd go for the V6 since this is just a daily driver/work car. For now I'm sticking with my plan of 2013 Fusion or 2012 Optima, I'd just like to see more wagons and if someone does make the right one, maybe I'll trade in eventually.
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May 4, 2012 06:14
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Endless Mike posted:I've gotten one for $1500 under, though it's the ST3 package, so there might be more leeway there (I'm waiting until Monday to see what another couple places offer, though, since at least two have said they can't order until then). The rest have been $400-500 under, one for $1000 over, and several people who want to sell me base model 2012s. $1500, wow. I'm at $800 now, for the ST3. Where are you located?
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May 4, 2012 06:56
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Powershift posted:I'm guessing the fact that it's twice the price of the camaro with the same engine, and on the same platform as the holden wagon. Although Holden had a hand in the initial design of the Sigma platform, it's a pretty different beast from the Zeta platform used in the Holden Cars. For one, Sigma has double A-arms in the front instead of MacPherson struts on the Zeta, and also the Sigma platform is much lighter since it has a lot more aluminum in it. The CTS Wagon is a great car, arguably a better one than the VE Holden, but it's also really very expensive. The thing stickers at $38-40k base. The Pontiac G8 sold for $10k less. The Camaro is the one that's built off of a modified Zeta platform.
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May 4, 2012 07:52
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Cream_Filling posted:Although Holden had a hand in the initial design of the Sigma platform, it's a pretty different beast from the Zeta platform used in the Holden Cars. For one, Sigma has double A-arms in the front instead of MacPherson struts on the Zeta, and also the Sigma platform is much lighter since it has a lot more aluminum in it. The CTS Wagon is a great car, arguably a better one than the VE Holden, but it's also really very expensive. The thing stickers at $38-40k base. The Pontiac G8 sold for $10k less. The Camaro is the one that's built off of a modified Zeta platform. I'm not good at english, i meant the camaro is the one built off zeta. To get the 3.6 they sell even in the impala, you have to option the CTS up 10 grand. The 3.0 is where the 3.6 should be and the 3.6 is where a v8 should be in the CTS.
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May 4, 2012 08:05
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It's a shock that the CTS still uses the 3.0L V6 when it has been banished from everything else it was in for being a turd. Yet when I went to the Cadillac site and it is still the base engine. An engine not good enough for a LaCrosse or Equinox, but good enough for a Cadillac. Mind boggling.
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May 4, 2012 08:25
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The CTS trim levels just follow the industry standard. The 3.0l is equivilant to a 528, and the 3.6l is equivilant to a 535. The 550 isn't a big seller for BMW so Cadillac won't sell any either.
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May 4, 2012 08:26
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BabyMauler posted:It's a shock that the CTS still uses the 3.0L V6 when it has been banished from everything else it was in for being a turd. Yet when I went to the Cadillac site and it is still the base engine. An engine not good enough for a LaCrosse or Equinox, but good enough for a Cadillac. Mind boggling. Eh, it was peaky and didn't have much torque in the lower RPMs, no different than the 528 back when it had the I6, so for a sporty car it wasn't bad but it sucked for a big SUV with an AT. And just like the 528 it will probably be replaced with a 2.0l turbo putting out the same horsepower at some point. The Chinese SLS already has the old Colbalt SS 274hp engine as the base engine.
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May 4, 2012 08:32
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I keep forgetting that the CTS competes with the 5, and not the 3. I seem to remember lots of CTS-V / M3 comparison write ups with the first gen one.
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May 4, 2012 08:42
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Also the Equinox still has the 3.0l, it was the SRX that went to the 3.6l only.
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May 4, 2012 08:57
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The CTS is a little odd since it's sized like the 5 but priced like the 3, so you can realistically compare it to either.
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May 4, 2012 12:55
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BabyMauler posted:I keep forgetting that the CTS competes with the 5, and not the 3. I seem to remember lots of CTS-V / M3 comparison write ups with the first gen one. Probably because the CTS-V is more comparable to the M3 in terms of price. The M5 has enough of a heftier price tag to put it in a completely different class. Probably not a lot of people cross shopping a CTS-V with an M5.
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May 4, 2012 13:02
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The DI 3l is the base Commodore engine too. It really isn't that bad.
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May 4, 2012 13:29
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discstickers posted:$1500, wow. I'm at $800 now, for the ST3. Where are you located? EDIT: Just got one for $2000 off sticker, which is $46 over invoice if the destination charge is included. I doubt I'll be doing much better. EDIT 2: Actually, that one didn't include freight, so it's actually higher than the $1500 one. Endless Mike fucked around with this message at 16:59 on May 4, 2012 |
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May 4, 2012 14:20
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I just saw my first iQ on the road today. A Smart car naturally comes to mind at first but quickly fades as the iQ lacks that certain cheap look that Smarts usually have. I also noticed the quirky rear windows behind the door. Just as a little thing that stood out.
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May 4, 2012 18:45
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Thwomp posted:I just saw my first iQ on the road today. A Smart car naturally comes to mind at first but quickly fades as the iQ lacks that certain cheap look that Smarts usually have. It seems like that's about the only way it stands out: pre:2012 Scion iQ Hatchback Base Price $15,995 EPA MPG 36/37/37 Curb weight 2150 lbs Layout Front-engine, FWD, 4-pass, 2-door hatchback Engine 1.3L/94-hp/89-lb-ft DOHC 16-valve I-4 Transmission cont. variable auto Dimensions 120.1 x 66.1 x 59.1 in
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May 4, 2012 19:09
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