China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

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Flopstick: Jul 10, 2011; Top Cop

Foxconn and their equivalents specifically, but that sounds like exactly the kind of thing I'm after, thanks! Will order a copy right now.

# ? May 1, 2012 23:24

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# ? May 10, 2024 00:27

Readman: Jun 15, 2005; What it boils down to is wider nature strips, more trees and we'll all make wicker baskets in Balmain.

These people are trying to make my party into something other than it is. They're appendages. That's why I'll never abandon ship, and never let those people capture it.

Flopstick posted:

By any chance, can anyone recommend any good books / blogs / documentaries / whatever that go into detail about living and working conditions for employees at Foxconn, treatment of labour disputes by the company and the expansion of export processing zones in mainland China? I ask because This American Life ended up having to retract their story on it, and I want to make sure that any source I use is definitely credible! Any suggestions gratefully received.

China Labour Law Bulletin is an excellent resource for information on labour disputes and working conditions, particularly in southern China. The website itself is HK-based. It has a great blog as well.

Edit: there's also a 2005 documentary called China Blue which is about migrant workers working in export-oriented textile factories in China.

And I can second the recommendation for Factory Girls.

Readman fucked around with this message at 01:01 on May 2, 2012

# ? May 2, 2012 00:57

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Google blocked for anyone else?

# ? May 2, 2012 01:43

Foyes36: Oct 23, 2005; Food fight!

Last Train Home (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Train_Home_%28film%29) is good too, though it's more about how the family dynamic is affected by mass immigration from the countryside to work in the cities as factory workers. Really an excellent documentary though.

Foyes36 fucked around with this message at 03:16 on May 2, 2012

# ? May 2, 2012 03:14

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Flopstick posted:

By any chance, can anyone recommend any good books / blogs / documentaries / whatever that go into detail about living and working conditions for employees at Foxconn, treatment of labour disputes by the company and the expansion of export processing zones in mainland China? I ask because This American Life ended up having to retract their story on it, and I want to make sure that any source I use is definitely credible! Any suggestions gratefully received.

The New York Times has been doing some good coverage http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/foxconn_technology/index.html?8qa

So has Marketplace: http://www.marketplace.org/search/node/foxconn

Far more reliable than that fat lying gently caress Mike Daisey.

# ? May 2, 2012 08:25

VideoTapir: Oct 18, 2005; He'll tire eventually.

Arglebargle III posted:

Google blocked for anyone else?

Frequently. Usually for a few minutes at a time.

# ? May 2, 2012 10:08

Fall Sick and Die: Nov 22, 2003

There are plenty of free and simple ways to get around the firewall, if you need help send me a PM and I'll tell you how to do it. Buying a VPN is for suckers. Now if you're a Tibetan dissident trying to access your gmail account I can't vouch for the security, but if you want to watch youtube videos of cats or whatever it works fine.

# ? May 2, 2012 13:50

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Well, that was a weird conclusion to the case.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CHINA_BLIND_LAWYER?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-05-02-09-40-40 posted:

BEIJING (AP) -- The blind Chinese activist at the center of a six-day diplomatic tussle between the U.S. and China said he fears for his family's lives and wants to leave China, hours after American officials announced an agreement with Beijing that was to guarantee his safety.

Chen Guangcheng escaped from illegal house arrest and other mistreatment in his rural town, placing himself under the protection of U.S. diplomats last week. On Wednesday, after six days holed up inside the American embassy, he emerged and was taken to a nearby hospital. U.S. officials said they had extracted from the Chinese government a promise that Chen would reunite with his family and be allowed to start a new life in a university town.

Hours later, however, a shaken Chen told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from his hospital room that U.S. officials told him the Chinese authorities would would have sent his family back to his home province if he remained inside the embassy. He added that, at one point, the U.S. officials told him his wife would have been beaten to death.

"I think we'd like to rest in a place outside of China," Chen said, appealing again for help from U.S. officials. "Help my family and me leave safely."

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said in a statement that no U.S. official spoke to Chen about physical or legal threats to his wife and children. Nor did the Chinese relay any such threats to American diplomats, she said. She did confirm that the Chinese intended to return his family to their home province of Shandong, where they had been detained illegally and beaten by local officials angry over Chen's campaigns to expose forced abortions, and that they would lose any chance of being reunited.

"At every opportunity, he expressed his desire to stay in China, reunify with his family, continue his education and work for reform in his country," Nuland said. "All our diplomacy was directed at putting him in the best possible position to achieve his objectives."

The differing accounts could not be immediately reconciled. But the turn in Chen's fate comes after nearly seven years of prison, house arrest and abusive treatment of him and his family members by local officials.

Chen's flight into the protection of U.S. diplomats in Beijing last week had created a delicate diplomatic crisis for Washington and Beijing. It also threatened to derail annual U.S.-China strategic talks with U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton starting Thursday.

Under the agreement that ended the fraught, behind-the-scenes standoff, U.S. officials said China agreed to let Chen and his family be relocated to a safe place in China where he could study at university, and that his treatment by local officials would be investigated.

Chen, 40, said he never asked to leave China or for asylum in the U.S. and said American officials reassured him they would accompany him out of the embassy. At the hospital, Chen was reunited with his wife, his daughter and a son he hasn't seen in at least two years. But after they got to his room in Chaoyang Hospital, he said no U.S. officials stayed behind and that the family is now scared and wants to leave the country.

He also took issue with another facet of the U.S. version of his departure - that on his way to the hospital Clinton called him and he told her in halting English "I want to kiss you."

"I told Clinton that I want to see her now. I said" - he said speaking in Chinese. Then switching to English he said, "I want to see you now."

Chen had become an international symbol for human dignity after running afoul of local government officials for exposing forced abortions carried out as part of China's one-child policy. He served four years in prison on what supporters said were fabricated charges and was then kept under house arrest with his wife, daughter and mother, with the adults often being roughed by officials and his daughter searched and harassed.

His dogged pursuit of justice and the mistreatment of him by what seemed like vengeful local authorities brought him attention from the U.S. and foreign governments and earned him supporters among many ordinary Chinese.

The differences over his security aside, leaving Chen in China is risky for President Barack Obama. Washington will now be seen as party to an agreement on Chen's safety that it does not have the power to enforce.

Ai Xiaoming, a documentary filmmaker and activist, said the Chinese government fails to ensure people's rights, so the best solution would be for Chen and his family to go to America.

"In the first place, Chen Guangcheng should not have to ask a foreign country to protect his rights. His rights should be protected by his own country, through the constitution. But it is obvious that this cannot be done," Ai said. "I feel that the U.S. has always accepted political refugees, it has always provided asylum, so I hope to see Chen Guangcheng safely leave."

Clinton said in a statement that Chen's exit from the embassy "reflected his choices and our values" and said the U.S. would monitor the assurances Beijing gave. "Making these commitments a reality is the next crucial task," she said.

The discrepancies also muddy an agreement that would have shelved, at least temporarily, a predicament that threatened to move human rights to the front of a U.S.-China agenda crowded with disagreements over trade imbalances, North Korea and Syria.

With Chen out of the way, in theory, Clinton, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and their Chinese counterparts would be set to focus on the original purpose of their two-day talks starting Thursday: building trust between the world's superpower and its up-and-coming rival.

Even so, the Chinese Foreign Ministry signaled its pique with the affair, demanding that the U.S. apologize, investigate how Chen got into the embassy and hold those responsible accountable.

"What the U.S. side has done has interfered in the domestic affairs of China, and the Chinese side will never accept it," Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin said in a statement.

Senior U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss the intense negotiations that led to Chen leaving the embassy, said the U.S. helped Chen get into the embassy because he injured his leg escaping from his village. In the embassy, Chen did not request safe passage out of China or asylum in the U.S., the officials said.

The officials refused to say if Washington would apologize. One official said that embassy staff acted "lawfully" and in conformity with policy, suggesting that the U.S. does not believe it has anything to apologize for.

The arrangements for Chen carries risks as well for China's government, which worries about encouraging activists and government critics.

As news spread that he had been taken to the hospital, in the eastern part of the city, media crews and a few supporters gathered outside. A man stood in front of the gate at the hospital and held up a sign saying "Freedom for Guangcheng, Democracy for China" for a minute before police took him inside. The hospital's name became a banned search term on the much-censored Chinese Internet, joining a long list of permutations for Chen's name.

The U.S. officials said Chen would be settled outside his home province of Shandong and have several university options to choose from. They also said that the Chinese government had promised to treat Chen "like any other student in China" and would investigate allegations of abuse against him and his family by local authorities.

# ? May 2, 2012 18:19

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

I'm confused. Chen waited until he was out of the US embassy to declare that he wanted to seek asylum to the US? Why would he do that?

# ? May 2, 2012 19:06

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

It sounds like his family was threatened by the Chinese government so he felt pressured to leave the embassy, but then surprised (?) when US officials immediately abandoned him right afterwards.

# ? May 2, 2012 19:07

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

I cannot believe the CCP would so openly ask a foreign government to relay such a flagrantly illegal and atrocious threat. My guess is that there has been a failure of communication - someone's speculation got misinterpreted as a message, perhaps.

# ? May 2, 2012 19:34

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Xandu posted:

It sounds like his family was threatened by the Chinese government so he felt pressured to leave the embassy, but then surprised (?) when US officials immediately abandoned him right afterwards.

What did he expect, that the US officials would follow him all around China? He had to have realized that once he was out of the embassy, the US can't help him.

# ? May 2, 2012 19:36

Electro-Boogie Jack: Nov 22, 2006; bagger mcguirk sent me.

Fangz posted:

I cannot believe the CCP would so openly ask a foreign government to relay such a flagrantly illegal and atrocious threat. My guess is that there has been a failure of communication - someone's speculation got misinterpreted as a message, perhaps.

They seem to have told the US that Chen's family was going to be returned to Shandong, which Chen and company interpreted as a threat- and given how long Beijing allowed Chen and his family to be abused in Shandong and exactly how much egg is currently on the Shandong and Linyi governments faces, that's probably a pretty accurate interpretation.

# ? May 2, 2012 20:07

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

He had to have known that his family was in jeopardy even if somebody did not explicitly spell it out for him.

# ? May 2, 2012 20:55

Electro-Boogie Jack: Nov 22, 2006; bagger mcguirk sent me.

Vladimir Putin posted:

He had to have known that his family was in jeopardy even if somebody did not explicitly spell it out for him.

Right, and Chen Kegui is already in a lot of trouble for fighting back when thugs stormed the house after they realized Guangcheng had escaped- but essentially being told that he better get away from American officials or his family would be sent back to Shandong is about as open of a threat as you're going to get.

# ? May 2, 2012 21:12

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

If Chen is unhappy with the outcome, then I can only say that he had a poorly thought out plan. Before he even set foot into the US embassy he had to have known that if he was given asylum to America, he would have to say goodbye to his family forever, and they might have been harmed.

His best outcome would have been what happened here: he is back in China with his family with reassurances that his family would be unharmed and be relocated.

I mean what are his other options now?

# ? May 2, 2012 21:37

Shbobdb: Dec 16, 2010; by Reene

Could someone give me a quick rundown of the Bo Xilai scandal and how it is playing out in the Chinese media environment? I've got a basic handle from things like the Times and, drat, that is a great story right there. Or at least it seems to be.

# ? May 2, 2012 21:48

Electro-Boogie Jack: Nov 22, 2006; bagger mcguirk sent me.

Vladimir Putin posted:

If Chen is unhappy with the outcome, then I can only say that he had a poorly thought out plan. Before he even set foot into the US embassy he had to have known that if he was given asylum to America, he would have to say goodbye to his family forever, and they might have been harmed.

His best outcome would have been what happened here: he is back in China with his family with reassurances that his family would be unharmed and be relocated.

I mean what are his other options now?

Poorly thought out, perhaps, although after a few years in the hole and no prospect for anything beyond random beatings and continued 'house arrest' stretching on into the future I don't know if the alternative really seemed much worse. He seems to have thought that calling on the central government to honor the 'bad local governments' fiction and bring an end to the immediate ordeal would work, but Beijing may not be able to rebuke the local government in this case without making other local governments worry about whether or not Beijing will support them in similar cases in the future, and thus potentially destroy their entire model of outsourcing shittiness to local govs. Going back to what Whatever7 said last page, if the local gov did indeed poo poo the bed it was just by allowing him to escape, and thereby creating a situation where Beijing has to visibly make a decision on a case like this.

If nothing else that plan was doomed to fail because he was going to get in trouble wherever he goes- you can't press the communist party to follow the rule of law without having them come to destroy you, and that won't change whether you're in Shandong or Beijing or fuckin' Xinjiang. If he can get Beijing to allow him to leave for America under 'medical release' rules he could potentially get them to allow his immediate family to leave too, or at least move them to another city where the local gov wouldn't be quite as vengeful. Leaving the embassy was a mistake if he wants them all to leave China together, though, because getting back now will probably be extremely tough.

# ? May 2, 2012 21:51

Pro-PRC Laowai: Sep 30, 2004; by toby

On the whole Cheng drama. Dunno why, but it was rather odd seeing that certain things happened:

1) Magically allowed into the US Embassy - this is not exactly a legal thing to do. It is strong interference in domestic issues.

2) The frequent scare quotes about getting funding from "foreign anti-china forces".

3) The persistent lack of information about what led to those charges.

4) Lots of articles characterizing him as "poor"

So... digging into it. He's gotten a LOT of funding from foreign governments. Somewhere along the lines of 4.2 million RMB from the brits, and an undisclosed amount from the NED (read as CIA). There are also rumors abound that he's used proxies to purchase a villa or two. There are some claims that this stuff is being spread by 五毛党, but it's being deleted just as fast as other unrelated posts on the situation... 五毛党 poo poo is typically left standing a while longer.

Going after officials with dirt like that on him wasn't exactly the smartest thing in the world and the sheer amount of cash he got from foreign governments (and the fact that he ventured to hong kong to set it all up). Also probably didn't help that he was passing everything over to RFA and VOA (also read as CIA).

Taking that poo poo into account, YEP, the treatment of the guy kinda makes perfect sense.

As for the poor part, he's anything but.

He's been marketed extensively by China Digital Times and ChinaAid, both of which are NED shills.

Do I *like* the way he's been treated? No. He did some good poo poo back in his early days. I don't exactly appreciate him bursting open the gates for the subway beggar industry here though. He wasn't really on the radar until he tried to stir up poo poo with officials, and the first thing that happens in those cases is the other side digs up all the dirt the claimant is hiding. In the eyes of the central government, he was collaborating with the CIA, not the smartest thing in the world to do. In the eyes of the local government, he was stepping on toes and had some poo poo to hide (mistake right there).

It looks like the agreement reached gets him relocated to another part of the country and him gaining admission to law school so he can become professional. He can stir all the poo poo he wants, but he should be a bit smarter about who is signing his checks.

edit: yea, with that update it's just getting weird. It's not like the US embassy could do poo poo anyways apart from letting him live there and never leave. Kinda hard to claim asylum while still in your home country.

Anyways, the full story on this poo poo will probably never come out so whatever.

# ? May 2, 2012 22:54

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Voice of America and the various Radio Free xs have literally nothing to do with the CIA. NED is not exactly a neutral organization, but it's hardly a proxy organization for the CIA, either.

# ? May 2, 2012 23:11

TheBuilder: Jul 11, 2001

What exactly does he have to offer the CIA?

# ? May 2, 2012 23:11

Pro-PRC Laowai: Sep 30, 2004; by toby

TheBuilder posted:

What exactly does he have to offer the CIA?

Convenient leverage and causing domestic issues which they fully are in favor of.

Xandu posted:

Voice of America and the various Radio Free xs have literally nothing to do with the CIA. NED is not exactly a neutral organization, but it's hardly a proxy organization for the CIA, either.

Radio Free xs:

quote:

�Radio Free Asia was originally a radio station broadcasting propaganda for the US-American government in local languages to mostly communist countries in Asia. It was originally founded and funded in 1950 by the CIA through a front organization called "Committee for Free Asia" as an anti-communist propaganda operation, broadcasting from Manila, the Philippines, and Dacca and Karachi, Pakistan (there may be other sites) until 1961. Some offices were in Tokyo. The parent organization was given as the Asia Foundation."

Now the administration and method of channelling large amounts of US Taxpayers hard-earned dollars to Radio Free Asia may have been changed in 1994-96, but these are considered by many observers to be largely cosmetic and intended to provide a degree of deniability. The real reason for the stations very existence almost certainly remains the same: the vested interests of the US Government and its Intelligence Services

And NED took over for CIA in an attempt to pretend it's not the CIA:

quote:

The NED receives an annual appropriation from the U.S. budget (it is included in the chapter of the Department of State budget destined for the U.S. Agency for International Development-USAID)

Call it an NGO if you want, but walks like a duck quacks like a duck... throws around cash to groups that oppose governments the US doesn't like. It's the same thing.

# ? May 2, 2012 23:27

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

I haven't heard anything about him getting money from foreign bodies.

The point of going to the embassy is that being able to have a dialogue with Beijing, with people who can actual call shots. If he stay in Shandong, he will get stuck in that horrible situation forever.

Not seeking asylum IMO is the right decision. He need to stay in China for the sake of his family's safety. And IMO he is no longer in danger of getting thrown to jail. He have generated enough fame that the Chinese government will want to resolve this quietly with moderate compromise from all sides.

Also Beijing want him to get the gently caress out of China. Most dissident as far as Beijing concerned, will lost his voice once he is safely live in a western country.

# ? May 3, 2012 00:49

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Or the PRC could take away the CIA's leverage by not extra-judicially detaining a blind guy and his family who has committed no crimes. That the CIA isn't necessarily acting out of complete altruism in this case(supposing if any of that stuff is true) doesn't really make the Chinese look any better.

# ? May 3, 2012 01:16

Frog Act: Feb 10, 2012

I was listening to the On Point about this earlier today, and the guest went out of her way to emphasize that he was detained by local authorities, and that the central government didn't have any direct involvement.

I don't really understand Chinese government enough to suss that out myself, but it is it possible Beijing wasn't directly involved in the initial stuff, at least?

# ? May 3, 2012 01:34

Fiendish_Ghoul: Jul 10, 2007; Can't post for 148 days!

Fandyien posted:

I don't really understand Chinese government enough to suss that out myself, but it is it possible Beijing wasn't directly involved in the initial stuff, at least?

Oh, of course they weren't involved in the "initial stuff." The problem is that it seems so blatantly unjust and has been so highly publicized and actively hushed up that they can't possibly say "oh, we didn't know."

I have read (from real sources) that CGC has received some overseas money, but I don't know why we should give any particular credence to some online wumao hit piece.

Frankly, while I don't know if it's productive, I don't think it's even wrong for the CIA, NED or whoever to interfere in China. I want China to 1. Change or 2. Failing that, stumble. I do not want China to be like it is now but immensely powerful, because I find the government's values vile.

# ? May 3, 2012 02:18

menino: Jul 27, 2006; Pon De Floor

Pro-PRC Laowai posted:

Call it an NGO if you want, but walks like a duck quacks like a duck... throws around cash to groups that oppose governments the US doesn't like. It's the same thing.

I'm pretty sure it's not a question of "liking" one country or another, it's spotting an opening, and there's really not enough money in the world to fill all the openings the PRC create.

# ? May 3, 2012 02:34

hitension: Feb 14, 2005; Hey guys, I learned Chinese so that I can write shame in another language

I'm pretty sure PPL is a 五毛党 himself at this point :stare:

I do wonder why Chen fled to the US Embassy. If I was just trying to get out of China, I'd go for the Swedish Embassy, those guys seem much more sympathetic.

# ? May 3, 2012 02:48

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

hitension posted:

I'm pretty sure PPL is a 五毛党 himself at this point

I do wonder why Chen fled to the US Embassy. If I was just trying to get out of China, I'd go for the Swedish Embassy, those guys seem much more sympathetic.

Well he doesn't want to leave China. He shouldn't have to leave China. He has no done anything wrong and illegal.

# ? May 3, 2012 04:01

Benagain: Oct 10, 2007; Can you see that I am serious?; Fun Shoe

Pro-PRC Laowai posted:

Convenient leverage and causing domestic issues which they fully are in favor of.

Timing's a little weird then. You'd think they'd have him make a break for it after the highly delicate talks that our secretary of state is holding.

# ? May 3, 2012 04:19

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/02/world/asia/china-clinton-visit/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Sounds like the US threw Chen under the bus... man, both governments suck.

# ? May 3, 2012 06:19

Curved: Jan 4, 2008

The update at the end of this article seems to make more sense to me:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/05/chinese-activist-very-disappointed-in-the-us-says-officials-lied-to-him/256675/

From State's point of view.

# ? May 3, 2012 07:38

Pro-PRC Laowai: Sep 30, 2004; by toby

hitension posted:

I'm pretty sure PPL is a 五毛党 himself at this point

I do wonder why Chen fled to the US Embassy. If I was just trying to get out of China, I'd go for the Swedish Embassy, those guys seem much more sympathetic.

Man, I wish I got paid for posting, but I don't. The only thing I attempt to do is to cut through some of the bullshit spin and try and figure out reasoning for crap that happens.

I had a big long post, but this article sums up my points more accurately
http://blog.hiddenharmonies.org/2012/04/chen-guangcheng-escapes-waging-pr-campaign-with-western-press/

One comment that especially stands out to me here:

quote:

What would Americans think if some Chinese right wing group rescued Bradly Manning and hid him in the Chinese Embassy?

How about a foreign government-backed NGO taking it upon itself to free "terror" suspects and stash them away in foreign embassies?

edit: If Manning's not your flavor of the day, how about Jos�_Padilla?

Pro-PRC Laowai fucked around with this message at 09:03 on May 3, 2012

# ? May 3, 2012 08:36

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Pro-PRC Laowai posted:

How about a foreign government-backed NGO taking it upon itself to free "terror" suspects and stash them away in foreign embassies?

Wait where are you going with this? Is this how the Chinese people see Chen?

# ? May 3, 2012 08:49

Fiendish_Ghoul: Jul 10, 2007; Can't post for 148 days!

What stands out to me about that quote is that it every Chinese living in American but defending China in all things is spouting that exact same line. Who would've expected that from Hidden Harmonies!

# ? May 3, 2012 08:50

Wedesdo: Jun 15, 2001; I FUCKING WASTED 10 HOURS AND $40 TODAY. FUCK YOU FATE AND/OR FORTUNE AND/OR PROBABILITY AND/OR HEISENBURG UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE.

I think it's only the first generation immigrants. The kids and grandkids (i.e. Gary Locke) usually toe the U.S. line.

# ? May 3, 2012 09:01

french lies: Apr 16, 2008

whatever7 posted:

I haven't heard anything about him getting money from foreign bodies.

Me neither, but I do know a lot of famous dissidents like Yu Jie and LXB have had similar stories attached to them. If you look at those two, you can actually see a strong pro-US undercurrent running through their writings, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if the US turned out to have been giving them money. CGC I don't know well enough to comment on, though chances are if he's being heard from in mainstream US media outlets, US money has been involved in some fashion.

Oh and btw, if you guys are wondering where PPL got those numbers and factoids from, they all seem to be from an unsourced forum post. Nothing I personally would trot out as evidence anywhere, but maybe the fifty cents operate with different standards.

# ? May 3, 2012 09:11

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Pro-PRC Laowai posted:

I had a big long post, but this article sums up my points more accurately
http://blog.hiddenharmonies.org/2012/04/chen-guangcheng-escapes-waging-pr-campaign-with-western-press/

Those are really your points? The poo poo in that post is what you literally believe?

Jesus Christ

# ? May 3, 2012 09:12

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

french lies posted:

Oh and btw, if you guys are wondering where PPL got those numbers and factoids from, they all seem to be from an unsourced forum post. Nothing I personally would trot out as evidence anywhere, but maybe the fifty cents operate with different standards.

Sounds like unfounded rumors that might unbalance the harmonious society! I think we need to imprison PPL and Saob for spreading unfounded rumors and re-educate them!

# ? May 3, 2012 09:18

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# ? May 10, 2024 00:27

french lies: Apr 16, 2008

Ronald Spiers posted:

Sounds like unfounded rumors that might unbalance the harmonious society! I think we need to imprison PPL and Saob for spreading unfounded rumors and re-educate them!

That's funny, but unfortunately the day-to-day reality of human rights lawyers in China is grim as poo poo. Chen Guangcheng received relatively cushy treatment compared to some of the other stories out there.

The most heart-wrenching for me is Ni Yulan. Local police officers beat and tortured her within an inch of her life, and essentially paralyzed her from the waist down. Her crime? Taking up the cases of families being forcibly evicted. For this heinous act she and her husband have had to live as vagrants, subsisting on donations from supporters and people they have helped. They even resorted to living in a park at some point. You can see this in the documentary Emergency Shelter. I'd love for someone to watch this and say "yeah well, maybe she should have been smarter about her work then duh :rolleyes:

".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fegpAIBowk

She was sentenced to jail last month for "financial fraud" and "occupying" a hotel room that local police had placed her in to begin with. Starting to see a trend yet?

# ? May 3, 2012 09:50

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