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notaspy posted:I've read through this threat to find a book or series I'm pretty sure doesn't exist. I'm wanting something with the following plot devices: How about Glen Cooks's The Dragon Never Sleeps ? It hits all your criteria and is a nice, fat self-contained novel. As a bonus, it's also a Roman legions in Space novel insofar as the Guardships are named after the Legions. Cook does NOT carefully re-enact Cannae or any other famous Roman battle in the book, it's just a bit of fluff.
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May 1, 2012 05:58
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notaspy posted:I've read through this threat to find a book or series I'm pretty sure doesn't exist. I'm wanting something with the following plot devices:
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May 1, 2012 06:03
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I like Walter Jon Williams, and I also endorse that suggestion.
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May 1, 2012 06:45
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Ugh. The Praxis series might have most of those things, but the actual battles are incredibly dull and repetitive affairs. When the protagonists are portrayed repeatedly as the only remotely competent people in a galaxy-spanning empire, far and above over any opposition, the series loses any real tension. That said, the fact they did have flaws was a nice change of pace from the usual Mary Sues of the genre.
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May 1, 2012 21:42
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mllaneza posted:How about Glen Cooks's The Dragon Never Sleeps ? It hits all your criteria and is a nice, fat self-contained novel. As a bonus, it's also a Roman legions in Space novel insofar as the Guardships are named after the Legions. Cook does NOT carefully re-enact Cannae or any other famous Roman battle in the book, it's just a bit of fluff. And the legion thing is not fluff, BTW. Rome in its decline is the clear and thought-provoking model for the Canon empire...it's just not a straight copy. So the guardships play the same role as legions even though in most ways they are like Culture ships. Well, very militaristic and senile Culture ships.
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May 1, 2012 22:50
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notaspy posted:I've read through this threat to find a book or series I'm pretty sure doesn't exist. I'm wanting something with the following plot devices: The Gap Cycle by Stephen R. Donaldson. It's got all of the above except maybe epic ground battles, and the main characters are about as far from stereotypical "Kids in media" as you can get!
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May 2, 2012 00:47
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Vertigus posted:The Gap Cycle by Stephen R. Donaldson. I like to recommend this too but lots of people get put off by the relentlessly grim first couple books. So just a warning if you're considering it, there's a whole lotta rape and other unpleasantness.
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May 2, 2012 00:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:DO NOT read the Honor Harrington series if you're bothered by transparent right-wing propaganda, painfully blatant Mary Sue protagonists, or horrible cliches. The primary villain is literally named "Rob S. Pierre,", because he's a Space Communist leader of the Space French. I'll cut Weber a little slack on the political front. He was essentially trying to futurize Horatio Hornblower, he injected some of his own political opinions, and the whole thing just spun out of control. I think he was initially trying to do a whole French Revolution homage, complete with Theisman being Napoleon, but then the politics took control in about book four and that got scrapped. If there is one thing David Weber isn't, it's subtle. Not that I'm defending his bullshit opinions, I'm just saying if he hadn't injected them from day one this could have been a great series. Oh and if you do like this read Horatio Hornblower. It isn't space opera, but the first few books of Honorverse are clearly ripping the bulk of their themes and characters from CS Forester's naval adventure books. They're set during the Napoleonic wars and are a fun read.
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May 2, 2012 04:28
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caleramaen posted:I'll cut Weber a little slack on the political front. He was essentially trying to futurize Horatio Hornblower, he injected some of his own political opinions, and the whole thing just spun out of control. I think he was initially trying to do a whole French Revolution homage, complete with Theisman being Napoleon, but then the politics took control in about book four and that got scrapped. If there is one thing David Weber isn't, it's subtle. The Empire of Man books he wrote with John Ringo suffer from this as well. With the bad guys being fanatical......environmentalists! I was enjoying the first book until I got to the first chapter describing the bad guys and just decided to put the book away. As far as I know the only big name military sci-fi author that doesnt harbor terrible right-wing views is David Drake, despite having a name that sounds like a protagonist from a terrible right-wing fantasy novel.
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May 2, 2012 04:49
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Mr.48 posted:John Ringo Well, there's your problem, right there. Mr.48 posted:As far as I know the only big name military sci-fi author that doesnt harbor terrible right-wing views is David Drake, despite having a name that sounds like a protagonist from a terrible right-wing fantasy novel. Also rare for being a member of that Baen crowd and yet not a right-winger is Eric Flint, who is actually a member of the Socialist Workers Party as opposed to just being a socialist in Fox News terms. Although most of Flint's stuff isn't space opera, he did co-write a few of the Honor Harrington books as I recall. I think his very first novel was also a space opera, though I haven't read it. But seriously, what the hell is it with Baen attracting the absolute most regressive far-right people possible to write for them?
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May 2, 2012 05:00
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Mr.48 posted:As far as I know the only big name military sci-fi author that doesnt harbor terrible right-wing views is David Drake, despite having a name that sounds like a protagonist from a terrible right-wing fantasy novel. I don't have the quote on hand, but Drake said writing is how he handles his PTSD - he writes about his experiences and nightmares to deal with them.
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May 2, 2012 17:18
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Chairman Capone posted:But seriously, what the hell is it with Baen attracting the absolute most regressive far-right people possible to write for them? I think this has to do with the fact that the people most likely to write military sci-fi are people who have either: A. Been in the military or B. Fetishized the military. Someone who has been in the military during war is somewhat more likely to be conservative, but could be of any political viewpoint really. They would also be more likely to have a realistic view of war. People who fetishize the military tend to be reactionary jack offs. These categories are not mutually exclusive. The point I was making is the genre draws the military nuts like sugar water draws flies, so you'll see a lot of these gung-ho nutcases working with it. In Weber's defense, he at least tries to present the idea that there are other potentially valid political opinions. Sure, his attempts have failed horribly, but at least he realized "Hey this is getting a little heavy handed, I'll give the liberals a sympathetic character (who is a sex maniac)." There is no redemption for Ringo though.
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May 2, 2012 18:03
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Fried Chicken posted:The primary difference there is that Drake fought in a war. Ringo served, but in the 80s. Drake was in Vietnam, so he actually knows how horrific war is. So as a result he doesn't fetish it or buy into the mentality that feeds into creating more war. That makes sense. I used to be a huge gun/military nut myself with some political views I'm really not proud of anymore. After a couple of years in the army....Not so much anymore.
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May 2, 2012 18:46
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There's also the fact that Ringo is a creep that wrote a five-book pedophile extravaganza but the less said about that the better.
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May 2, 2012 20:28
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caleramaen posted:There is no redemption for Ringo though. Well, in his "Ghost" series, his Mary Sue character does have sex with a Democratic senator's daughter! (And then has a threesome with her and her mother too, I think)
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May 2, 2012 20:28
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Mr.48 posted:As far as I know the only big name military sci-fi author that doesnt harbor terrible right-wing views is David Drake, despite having a name that sounds like a protagonist from a terrible right-wing fantasy novel. If you don't already know him check out Joe Haldeman. He served in Vietnam and there's an extent to which his books are a reaction against how unrealstic military space opera is. The most well known, The Forever War is also very good. I'm not sure about is politics, but "terrible right-wing" would suprise me. Other than that John Scalzi perhaps qualifies?
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May 2, 2012 21:30
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Turin Turambar posted:I was wondering... anyone know a book like this? Let's take this impulse in the opposite direction. Do you want to read a very cheesy novel about vampires fighting aliens? Of course you do. David Weber's Out of the Darkness is about a confederation of herbivores and omnivores who are disgusted by humanity's cruelty. They send the only carnivorous race to develop spaceflight toward earth with authority to colonize. There they meet the savage human race, and just when things are truly dire, humanity's savior steps out of the shadows... It's typical David Weber. His characters are always hypercompetent, jocular and two-dimensional. He loves technology and talks about it more than he talks about the plot. Really, only check it out for the hilarity of vampires fighting aliens.
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May 2, 2012 22:17
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Gravy Jones posted:If you don't already know him check out Joe Haldeman. He served in Vietnam and there's an extent to which his books are a reaction against how unrealstic military space opera is. The most well known, The Forever War is also very good. I'm not sure about is politics, but "terrible right-wing" would suprise me. I tried The Forever War but didnt really dig it. In any case when I said military sci-fi I guess what I should have specified that I meant mostly Baen's lineup of pulp writers. Otherwise yeah that are some who are pretty good. Kurt Vonnegut is probably my favorite, although I wouldn't classify him as having written any military sci-fi despite novels like Slaughterhouse 5 being both about the military and sci-fi to some extent.
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May 2, 2012 22:27
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Mr.48 posted:The Empire of Man books he wrote with John Ringo suffer from this as well. With the bad guys being fanatical......environmentalists! I was enjoying the first book until I got to the first chapter describing the bad guys and just decided to put the book away. Mr.48 posted:John Ringo This was all you needed to say.
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May 2, 2012 22:32
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I got yelled at in here last time I suggested them, but R. M. Meluch's Tour of the Merrimack might strike your fancy. It's about the Merrimack, the greatest and best ship in the galaxy and her totally amazing captain and crew. They fight Space Romans (literally, when the Empire collapsed they went into hiding and waited until Earth started colonizing planets, and claimed one for themselves) and your typical mindless hive aliens. It's 100% action sci-fi cheese, and doesn't pretend to be anything else. Skip the first book, though. It doesn't have much much to do with the story of the other books, and isn't even in the same continuity because of time travel
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May 3, 2012 00:58
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coyo7e posted:Simon R. Green's "Deathstalker" series fit these requests pretty well. Also, to add yet another recommendation to the list, the Succession series by Scott Westerfeld has all of those things except epic ground battles (although there is a firefight with space marines and orbital drop pods). Fray fucked around with this message at 01:19 on May 3, 2012 |
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May 3, 2012 01:16
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Internet Wizard posted:There's also the fact that Ringo is a creep that wrote a five-book pedophile extravaganza but the less said about that the better. The more said about it the better, I think. It's the proverbial train wreck you can't look away from.
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May 3, 2012 02:20
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Internet Wizard posted:There's also the fact that Ringo is a creep that wrote a five-book pedophile extravaganza but the less said about that the better. Wait, what? I'll admit my experience with John Ringo is limited to flipping through one of his books at a bookstore, saying, "Wow, this looks like Right Wing crazy poo poo," and then getting my opinion confirmed by the internet. I wasn't aware of his pedophilia.
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May 3, 2012 05:25
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This review is pretty much all you need to know. Oh, John Ringo no.
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May 3, 2012 05:46
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wheatpuppy posted:This review is pretty much all you need to know. Oh, John Ringo no. This is Gor levels of awful here.
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May 3, 2012 06:08
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Oh John Ringo NO
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May 3, 2012 06:38
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To be fair, Weber's grown out of his horrible right wing phase. He even has books that try to ask about the motivations of people who perform terrorist acts, a mixture of pragmatists, idealists, and psychopaths (orthogonal to the justness of the cause, of course). He's a hella more feminist than many other science fiction writers, but he does tend towards heteronormality. And these days, the bad guys are a bunch of hypercapitalist slavers, and for the longest time the series focused on some really nasty abrahamic fundementalists. But the main problems is that Honor and Manticore are hypercompetent morally spotless ubermenschen by author fiat, unlike Haven pre-restoration or Solaria. Because Weber says so.
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May 3, 2012 07:10
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Phobophilia posted:To be fair, Weber's grown out of his horrible right wing phase. He even has books that try to ask about the motivations of people who perform terrorist acts, a mixture of pragmatists, idealists, and psychopaths (orthogonal to the justness of the cause, of course). He's a hella more feminist than many other science fiction writers, but he does tend towards heteronormality. Oh definitely. I was pretty shocked at just how feminist it turned out really given some of the political poo poo. He did do the thing were he added a bunch of unnecessary rape in order to get you angry at the villain (he does this several times), but it was handled about as tastefully as you can do that sort of thing (though not doing it would have been better). I like the series despite the fact that Honor is completely ridiculous and cheesy. In fact maybe because of it, as long as you don't take it seriously. Also Manticore is SPACE BRITAIN! How can you not like that.
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May 3, 2012 07:31
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Mayor Dave posted:Let's take this impulse in the opposite direction. Do you want to read a very cheesy novel about vampires fighting aliens? Of course you do.
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May 3, 2012 08:20
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He does that weird thing where there's a great deal of female equality, but rape culture still clearly exists. And despite all attempts towards progressiveness, the covers are illustrated by Baen, which means everyone you see are lily-white despite the main characters being mixtures from all ethnicities. A shame. Also, why the hell is there no space UN? Most of the societies across the galaxy are nominally open and democratic, and why are they not raising a shitfit over an expansionist empire instigating wars of aggression? Hell, Haven is full of filthy liberals, why are they not protesting unjust wars? I guess the answer is that in these kind of stories, protesters are a foil to obstruct the actions of the rugged protagonists. Phobophilia fucked around with this message at 08:26 on May 3, 2012 |
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May 3, 2012 08:22
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Phobophilia posted:He does that weird thing where there's a great deal of female equality, but rape culture still clearly exists. And despite all attempts towards progressiveness, the covers are illustrated by Baen, which means everyone you see are lily-white despite the main characters being mixtures from all ethnicities. A shame. The Solarian League is the space UN, and they have their own problems. Like being the pawns of aforementioned hypercapitalist slavers. Given how Weber characterizes the League, I think it's fair to say he doesn't think highly of the UN. Also until the Pritchard coup, Haven is either an aristocratic police state or a trumped up communist junta. Serious political protesters probably don't have a very long life expectancy.
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May 3, 2012 08:33
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Fried Chicken posted:Blindsight was hardly cheesy. It was fantastic Seriously. Even the little in-universe slideshow Peter Watts did about the development of vampires isn't that bad.
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May 3, 2012 08:34
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caleramaen posted:The Solarian League is the space UN, and they have their own problems. Like being the pawns of aforementioned hypercapitalist slavers. Given how Weber characterizes the League, I think it's fair to say he doesn't think highly of the UN. There was no lack of protesters pre-Committee, it's just that because they were the designated bad guys, those protesters had nothing of value to say than act as greedy welfare queens. They even got away with mass bombings. And stop calling those vampires Vampires. They were cannibalistic genetically engineered autistic savants. Vampires imply sexiness, these guys and gals were creepy and gross.
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May 3, 2012 08:41
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Phobophilia posted:There was no lack of protesters pre-Committee, it's just that because they were the designated bad guys, those protesters had nothing of value to say than act as greedy welfare queens. They even got away with mass bombings. You're right about the protestors, but as I recall the Legislaturists allowed some of this to happen as a safety valve against all out revolt. It was all very carefully managed by the government. Right up until Rob S. Pierre decided to kill them all.
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May 3, 2012 08:45
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I just bought an ebook from Baen of two Charles Sheffield novels in one: Summertide and Divergence collected as "Convergent Series"... for $4. I don't know much about them but apparently they feature weird alien artifacts being expored by humans, which is why I was interested in the first place, and I was really happy it was so cheap. But now the fact that it's published by Baen is making me worry that I've really bought some right-wing milsf garbage. Has anyone read any Charles Sheffield books, particularly in this universe (The Heritage is the name of the series), and are they good? 
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May 3, 2012 10:37
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Charles Sheffield was very very far from a rightwing milsf type. You're safe.
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May 3, 2012 13:39
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I loved the Convergent Series. My library had them, and I used to re-read them fairly often back in the 90s. I remember them having some pretty interesting worldbuilding. I went back to my library a year or two ago to see if I could find them and if they would hold up, and apparently they no longer have them.  Also of note, there are five total books in that series, and originally the first three were published by a different company. So any Baen taint would only be on the last two (one of which, looking it up, I never read, but the fourth in the series didn't come across as any different). I actually might buy that eBook reprinting, now that you've told me about it. Groke posted:Charles Sheffield was very very far from a rightwing milsf type. You're safe. He's not the Ringo-type right wing military sci-fi type, but he did do a series of young adult books called the "Jupiter Series" which is very heavily steeped in libertarian "free market capitalism is the only way to save our kids from welfare state slavery brainwashing" themes.
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May 3, 2012 15:05
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I fully acknowledge and agree with most of the criticisms of the Honor Harrington books. But drat, I love reading them anyway. Same with Ringo's Troy Rising series. Ridiculous uber right wing rants, but still enjoyed the hell out of the books. I'd be happy to read non-political military sci-fi, or even liberal military sci-fi, but there doesn't seem to be much of it out there.
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May 3, 2012 15:25
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fed_dude posted:I fully acknowledge and agree with most of the criticisms of the Honor Harrington books. But drat, I love reading them anyway. Scalzi's later books in the Old Man's War series deconstruct a lot of the right-wing presumptions. If you like Honor Harrington despite all the flaws I'd recommend the Doc Savage books, they're the pulpiest things imaginable. I got to about the fifth book where they're in a Lost Dinosaur Canyon and one of the protagonists bull-leaps a charging triceratops by grabbing the horns and flipping; at that point I was like "ok, that was awesome, but I'm done" but if you can tolerate Honor Harrington you'd probably be fine with that kind of thing.
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May 3, 2012 16:19
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Fried Chicken posted:Blindsight was hardly cheesy. It was fantastic I wasn't talking about Blindsight (which is awesome and not cheesy). I was talking about Out of the Darkness.
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May 3, 2012 18:48
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