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crazyfish posted:I'm a huge fan of Bell's Third Coast Old Ale, but that's more of an English style barleywine than an American. Actually, are 'old ales' the same thing as English barleywines, or does old ale imply the presence of brett? Third Coast Old Ale is... an Old Ale. They are different than English Barleywines, they can have a slight brett C or lactic acid character but usually have a bit of a brown malt character (light roast, not like a stout though) and a lower hop character.
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May 3, 2012 22:03
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There's sort of a muddled spectrum spanning Old Ale to Scotch Ale to English Barleywine. They have much in common and the style borders are loosely defined by the presence of key flavors/ingredients like black-roasted malts, peat flavors, overt sweetness, presence of hops, or ABV. English Barleywines tend to be very sweet with some alcohol heat, Old Ales are weaker and more roasty.
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May 3, 2012 22:13
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Angry Grimace posted:LEGAL STUFF!!!!! Huh. Interesting and confusing. If a state requires their distributors to be registered (as I believe Illinois does), and retailers to buy from distributors (per Three-Tier), that seems like there's a conflict with this court decision. That is, I can be a retailer in CA who buys from my local distributor and it's legal for me to ship to Illinois even though my distributor isn't registered with IL? I get the discriminatory issue, but how that court decision doesn't violate three-tier is beyond me... Or rather, how three-tier doesn't violate that decision.
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May 3, 2012 22:13
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danbanana posted:Huh. Interesting and confusing. If a state requires their distributors to be registered (as I believe Illinois does), and retailers to buy from distributors (per Three-Tier), that seems like there's a conflict with this court decision. That is, I can be a retailer in CA who buys from my local distributor and it's legal for me to ship to Illinois even though my distributor isn't registered with IL? I get the discriminatory issue, but how that court decision doesn't violate three-tier is beyond me... Or rather, how three-tier doesn't violate that decision. I you know for sure that such a thing is legal, I think it would come down to 1) you are considered a retailer and assumed to be following the laws in your own state, or 2) distributors register in as many states as possible to cover all potential situations arising from their stock ending up in other states. That is, they might maintain registration in the state even if they don't do business there. edit: I've heard before about IL have some arcane distribution laws, resulting in Bell's being pulled from IL, then re-introduced under a different name, then finally being re-introduced as Bell's. On the plus side, national scale distributing means national beer availability whenever feasible; Goose Island didn't get very far out of Chicago before InBev bought them out. CalvinDooglas fucked around with this message at 22:29 on May 3, 2012 |
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May 3, 2012 22:16
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CalvinDooglas posted:I you know for sure that such a thing is legal, I think it would come down to 1) you are considered a retailer and assumed to be following the laws in your own state, or 2) distributors register in as many states as possible to cover all potential situations arising from their stock ending up in other states. That is, they might maintain registration in the state even if they don't do business there. Yeah, that latter thing seems to make sense. Again, my knowledge on the situation is very minimal, but my impression of the distro industry in IL is very much a pay-to-play type thing. Lots of money = lots of distro. So it surprises me that online retailers can actually do this. Either way, I guess if I were ever really looking for some Russian River or something else not readily available, I could jump on it.
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May 3, 2012 22:21
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CalvinDooglas posted:There's sort of a muddled spectrum spanning Old Ale to Scotch Ale to English Barleywine. They have much in common and the style borders are loosely defined by the presence of key flavors/ingredients like black-roasted malts, peat flavors, overt sweetness, presence of hops, or ABV. English Barleywines tend to be very sweet with some alcohol heat, Old Ales are weaker and more roasty. Some similarities yes but I would actually say the differences are quite clear as well. English barleywine: heavy pale malt character, some sweetness from specialty malts and some from a pretty high finishing gravity. Firm bitterness, firm (but not high) english hop and english yeast character. Old Ale: lots of malt character and some sweetness, fair brown/darker malt character and a moderate finishing gravity. Moderate bitterness, low hop character, probably some english yeast character, optional brett/lactic character but very mild if so. Wee Heavy: Heavy golden promise (pale premium barley) malt character with small amounts of roasted barley (no other specialty malt character). Lots of malt character and sweetness from high finishing gravity, low bitterness and lots of scottish yeast character. No hop character.
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May 3, 2012 22:39
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danbanana posted:Huh. Interesting and confusing. If a state requires their distributors to be registered (as I believe Illinois does), and retailers to buy from distributors (per Three-Tier), that seems like there's a conflict with this court decision. That is, I can be a retailer in CA who buys from my local distributor and it's legal for me to ship to Illinois even though my distributor isn't registered with IL? I get the discriminatory issue, but how that court decision doesn't violate three-tier is beyond me... Or rather, how three-tier doesn't violate that decision.
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May 3, 2012 22:51
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So, have any of you WestMich goons made it over to Vivant for the Big Red Coq release yet? I think they might still have some packs/cases available, if not, it'll be on tap for a while. It's really good this year. Faint hints of tropical fruit and loads of citrus from the citra hops, relatively dry, but with great body. As much as the Zaison has disappointed me a bit this year (too yeasty), the BRQ totally, utterly delivers. If you actually make it to the brewery to pick some up, also make sure to try the wood-aged Triomphe if it's still on tap, because holy poo poo. In other news, GB Russo has tons of Hoptimum available, or did last Thursday, and it's utterly delightful. Hey SN, make this a year-round and I'll be buying it every month.
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May 3, 2012 23:27
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I'm so glad to have discovered a package store about 20 minutes away, across the border into NY, that stocks Founders. I'm having an Imperial Stout right now and it's simply phenomenal. I fell in love with the color of the head before even starting to drink it. It's got a bold hop presence that reminds me of Storm King. The bittersweet chocolate hits you right up front, and then you get a bit of coffee and what I think may be hazelnut? The alcohol catches up with you but it's not hot in the taste. Love me some Founders. Double Trouble is my next experience, I think.
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May 3, 2012 23:45
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Wamsutta posted:I'm so glad to have discovered a package store about 20 minutes away, across the border into NY, that stocks Founders. I'm having an Imperial Stout right now and it's simply phenomenal. I fell in love with the color of the head before even starting to drink it. It's got a bold hop presence that reminds me of Storm King. The bittersweet chocolate hits you right up front, and then you get a bit of coffee and what I think may be hazelnut? The alcohol catches up with you but it's not hot in the taste. I guess I'll add those to my list. We've actually got Founders in town for basically a single day, which is kind of neat, so I'm going to try what I can while it's here. Nothing particularly "rare," just the regular lineup plus KBS.
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May 4, 2012 00:16
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Had a little tasting last night Alpine Woody 21st Amemdment Bitter American Lagunitas Censored Mammoth Brewing IPA 395 Epic Imperial Red Ale Alpine Pure Hoppyness Port Brewing Hop-15(very good) Firestone Wooky Jack Kern River Class V stout Dogfish Red & White Bothswold Chocolate Porter? Bottleworks 13th Ale Russian River Consecration Drake's Drakonic Imperial Porter Great Divide Chocolate Oak Aged Yeti Casual Yogurt fucked around with this message at 02:03 on May 4, 2012 |
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May 4, 2012 00:25
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How was the Wookey Jack? I'm always dubious of black IPA's but if anyone can pull it off I'm sure it's Firestone. I read a review comparing it to Stone's Sublimely Self-Righteous, which I love, so that's a good sign.
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May 4, 2012 00:47
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To add to the discussion before on interstate shipping legality, if the Postmaster General gets his way and gets the USPS ban on shipping alcohol overturned, shipping beer from out of state could become a much bigger industry than it is right now. You can get stuff shipped from practically anywhere if you've got a site willing to ship, it's just that it costs double the cost of the beer in freight.
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May 4, 2012 00:52
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mysterious frankie posted:What's a good barleywine to ease into the style with? I've had a few- one on tap from GI and a couple at festivals- and they just haven't jived with me. It's a style I'd like to explore, but I think I need to find something mild/approachable to start with. Anchor Old Foghorn
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May 4, 2012 02:18
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Docjowles posted:I have no idea if this is true, but I'm going to roll with it because it's hilarious. Get wrecked, Dirty Jerz. That's okay, we have enough fantastic breweries that do distribute here and if I want Bells I can go to Philly in 30 minutes and get it and even get Pliny the Elder on tap regularly. mysterious frankie posted:What's a good barleywine to ease into the style with? I've had a few- one on tap from GI and a couple at festivals- and they just haven't jived with me. It's a style I'd like to explore, but I think I need to find something mild/approachable to start with. Many might disagree, but Firestone Walker's Abacus (Sucaba) is stellar and a great barleywine to get into barleywines. It's one of the best of the style and pretty easily available, at least in New Jersey. It's super easy to drink compared to others I've had.
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May 4, 2012 03:20
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Midorka posted:
I love abacus but I think it's unfair to introduce someone to a Barrel aged barley wine
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May 4, 2012 03:34
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lazerwolf posted:I love abacus but I think it's unfair to introduce someone to a Barrel aged barley wine Maybe, but I can't think of a better barleywine.
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May 4, 2012 03:43
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Jesus. That is like introducing someone to "fruity" beers by pouring a Gueze Girardin.
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May 4, 2012 03:50
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FreelanceSocialist posted:Jesus. That is like introducing someone to "fruity" beers by pouring a Gueze Girardin. "Fruity" beers encapsulate a large variety from sours to Sam Adams Cherry Wheat, with some being completely hard to handle. You're implying that Abacus is so far off of the style that it isn't comparable to others, which you're exaggerating completely. The only thing that makes Abacus different than any barleywine is the barrel aging, and even so the oak is not forward at all. It's a loving delicious barleywine and there's nothing about it that would turn someone off from it if they didn't like, say, Old Foghorn, whereas the Gueze isn't at all representative of all fruit beers since it's such a vague genre. Midorka fucked around with this message at 04:11 on May 4, 2012 |
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May 4, 2012 04:09
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Yeah, I think I'm gonna stick with Sierra Nevada and/or Anchor to start. Both of those brewers, in my experience, go out of their way to make easily accessible beers. I've tried a handful of barleywines before, and none sat well with me, so I think I need to ease my way into the style with something rrrrrreally mild, get my barleywine legs, so to speak. I think I've proven in this thread multiple times that I'm a giant diaper baby when it comes to thick, heavy beers (barrel aged, anything Schmaltz makes, etc). Once I figure out how to appreciate it, I'll start to get more adventurous.
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May 4, 2012 04:12
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mysterious frankie posted:Yeah, I think I'm gonna stick with Sierra Nevada and/or Anchor to start. Both of those brewers, in my experience, go out of their way to make easily accessible beers. I've tried a handful of barleywines before, and none sat well with me, so I think I need to ease my way into the style with something rrrrrreally mild, get my barleywine legs, so to speak. I think I've proven in this thread multiple times that I'm a giant diaper baby when it comes to thick, heavy beers (barrel aged, anything Schmaltz makes, etc). Once I figure out how to appreciate it, I'll start to get more adventurous. Just so you know, Bigfoot is American style, which is hopforward, while Foghorn is English style, which is much sweeter. I'm not a fan of Americans fresh because they tend to be too hop forward.
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May 4, 2012 04:14
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Docjowles posted:How was the Wookey Jack? I'm always dubious of black IPA's but if anyone can pull it off I'm sure it's Firestone. I read a review comparing it to Stone's Sublimely Self-Righteous, which I love, so that's a good sign. I thought it smelled amazing, the taste was decent and they balanced the rye & hops terrifically. I picked up a wood flavor in there too which I kinda despise in anything hop-forward, so that's the one knock I have on it. As usual with FW's stuff, the price was right for the style. If it was a go-to type of beer for me I'd definitely go back to it.
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May 4, 2012 04:15
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Midorka posted:Stuff
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May 4, 2012 04:18
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Midorka posted:"Fruity" beers encapsulate a large variety from sours to Sam Adams Cherry Wheat, with some being completely hard to handle. You're implying that Abacus is so far off of the style that it isn't comparable to others, which you're exaggerating completely. The only thing that makes Abacus different than any barleywine is the barrel aging, and even so the oak is not forward at all. It's a loving delicious barleywine and there's nothing about it that would turn someone off from it if they didn't like, say, Old Foghorn, whereas the Gueze isn't at all representative of all fruit beers since it's such a vague genre. I have to disagree. Not only is Abacus fairly expensive and difficult to find depending on where you're located, but most American barleywines are strongly hopped and very forward when fresh. Abacus by its nature is mellowed out quite a lot and feels much sweeter because it doesn't have quite the hop bite. I'm not saying its bad, its just not a regular old barleywine. You may love the strong coconut flavors in that and hate a regular barleywine. Bigfoot is the prototypical American barleywine, but I think there are some other interesting ways to get into it. Smuttynose Wheatwine or New Holland's Pilgrim's Dole Wheatwine are easier / cheaper ways to get into a very similar genre. Foghorn and Old Horizontal are are also great, cheap, available options. Fresh Old Ruffian is probably the hoppiest example that is readily available.
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May 4, 2012 04:20
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My piece of poo poo liquor store (in Colorado of all places, like really, every other liquor store is awesome) has Lagunitas Hop Stoopid bombers right now, and holy poo poo is it glorious. Gonna have to make my way up the road to a better shop this weekend and find some more big PA's.
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May 4, 2012 04:20
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Paul Proteus posted:I have to disagree. Not only is Abacus fairly expensive and difficult to find depending on where you're located, but most American barleywines are strongly hopped and very forward when fresh. Abacus by its nature is mellowed out quite a lot and feels much sweeter because it doesn't have quite the hop bite. I'm not saying its bad, its just not a regular old barleywine. You may love the strong coconut flavors in that and hate a regular barleywine. Abacus is an English barleywine, not an American, style-wise I mean, it never had a hop bite and never was supposed to. Also I'm not sure where you're picking up coconut in Abacus, but it's not there. As for it being a huge beer, maybe but it's super drinkable and perfectly balanced compared to many barleywines that can be too hot or thick. Abacus is the barleywine that changed my opinion on barleywines. As for Old Horizontal, it wasn't brewed last year, so it's not around actually. Midorka fucked around with this message at 04:28 on May 4, 2012 |
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May 4, 2012 04:25
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Midorka posted:Just so you know, Bigfoot is American style, which is hopforward, while Foghorn is English style, which is much sweeter. I'm not a fan of Americans fresh because they tend to be too hop forward. That's actually good to know. I can taste back to back, see which direction to approach from in the future. --- The new GI milk stout sounds really good. Goose Island posted:Cocoa Leche-- American Milk Stout w/coal black color, choc. malt aroma, milk choc. flavor, medium body 5.7% I was gonna grab dinner in the area when we're done moving Saturday, but I think I'm gonna need to head to the pub instead... loves me some milk stouts.
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May 4, 2012 04:28
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Paul Proteus posted:I have to disagree. Not only is Abacus fairly expensive and difficult to find depending on where you're located, but most American barleywines are strongly hopped and very forward when fresh. Abacus by its nature is mellowed out quite a lot and feels much sweeter because it doesn't have quite the hop bite. I'm not saying its bad, its just not a regular old barleywine. You may love the strong coconut flavors in that and hate a regular barleywine. I've already had Boulevard Harvest Dance, which I loved. Are wheatwines really similar to barleywines? Havest Dance was so light and almost champagny, where the barleywines I've had were syrupy thick, sightly bitter and sweet like molasses.
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May 4, 2012 04:33
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mysterious frankie posted:I've already had Boulevard Harvest Dance, which I loved. Are wheatwines really similar to barleywines? Havest Dance was so light and almost champagny, where the barleywines I've had were syrupy thick, sightly bitter and sweet like molasses. What barleywines have you had?
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May 4, 2012 04:36
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Midorka posted:What barleywines have you had? Uhhhhhh, haha, a one off at the GI pub and a couple at the last two Kegs For Kids, none of which I can recall the names of. That doesn't really help, does it?
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May 4, 2012 04:37
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Just because it is an English barleywine doesn't mean it has to be super sweet with no hop presence; there are examples out there that are strongly hopped with a more "UK" hop bite (as opposed to a citrusy California hop type). I'm not going to argue coconut in Abacus because that's just dumb. The barleywine style has one of the largest ranges of "acceptable" examples, imo, which is part of the reason why it interests me so much. The point I'm trying to make is that a barrel-aged version of any beer does not naturally lead to the regular version of it. If someone wants to get into either one, more power to them, but I feel they are two distinct styles, especially examples like Abacus that get a lot from the barrel. *edit* Since you live in Chicago, you need to come to the next goon beer meet. I'll bring a Central Waters Y2K: which is one of the best, most balanced barleywines I've ever had. Paul Proteus fucked around with this message at 04:42 on May 4, 2012 |
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May 4, 2012 04:39
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Paul Proteus posted:Just because it is an English barleywine doesn't mean it has to be super sweet with no hop presence; there are examples out there that are strongly hopped with a more "UK" hop bite (as opposed to a citrusy California hop type). I'm not going to argue coconut in Abacus because that's just dumb. Hells yes, assuming it's sometime after the 18th. Moving then going on call at work. Let me know!
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May 4, 2012 04:46
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mysterious frankie posted:Uhhhhhh, haha, a one off at the GI pub and a couple at the last two Kegs For Kids, none of which I can recall the names of. That doesn't really help, does it? Not much, I've never had Goose Island's so I don't know how it fares, but their beers are generally great.
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May 4, 2012 04:51
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Midorka posted:Not much, I've never had Goose Island's so I don't know how it fares, but their beers are generally great. I'm an unrepentant Goose Island fanboy, but I always seem to have trouble with anything they suggest I drink out of a snifter.
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May 4, 2012 04:53
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Had Dieu de Ciel Equinoxe du Printemps last night. It's probably the weakest thing I've had from DDC - not bad, not at all, just very nondescript. I will say it hides the 9.5% very well, but I'm not sure how. There isn't much going on besides some light malty flavors. Tonight I cracked the other Dieu de Ciel that just made it to Vegas this week: Rigor Mortis, a quad. It's perhaps inevitable I'm comparing it to Westvleteren 12 since I had that so recently. It stands up, in different ways. Rigor Mortis is malty and rich, but lacks some of the viscosity and a great deal of the complexity of Westy. It's also a bit more dry. There's a bit of a charred note to Rigor, and the finish leans toward dried pears with a bit of smokiness I find quite pleasant. Compared to Westvleteren the spice components are more muted but still present. It's a drat fine beer, and should be enjoyed in its own right. I'll be buying more of this.
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May 4, 2012 05:06
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Midorka posted:Also I'm not sure where you're picking up coconut in Abacus, but it's not there. ~taste buds~ Also, coconut is a common flavor descriptor in barrel aged beers and wines.
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May 4, 2012 05:18
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Abacus/Sucaba bourbon barrel aged? Because what I get out of it is a heavy bourbon heat. Not much oak. It's great, one of the best BA barleywines I've ever had (probably only behind GI's King Henry)... But I agree that it's not a good place to start with barleywines. For hop-foward versions, I would also recommend FFF's Behemoth, if you can still get it. I've seen it on a couple shelves within the last month or so. For wheatwines, Frankie, you should be able to run into Two Brothers' Bare Tree around Chicago every once in a while. The 2011 vintage was much better than the 2010 (which was not as good as 2009). So year-to-year, I've found it inconsistent, but pretty good.
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May 4, 2012 12:15
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I picked up two six packs of White Rajah for my birthday... it should be a good one! 
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May 4, 2012 14:15
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danbanana posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Abacus/Sucaba bourbon barrel aged? Because what I get out of it is a heavy bourbon heat. Not much oak. It's great, one of the best BA barleywines I've ever had (probably only behind GI's King Henry)... But I agree that it's not a good place to start with barleywines. For hop-foward versions, I would also recommend FFF's Behemoth, if you can still get it. I've seen it on a couple shelves within the last month or so. Apparently it varies, but I noted no bourbon at all. I brewed a barleywine the other day and brought Sucaba as an idea for me and the other guy to base it off of. I brought three bourbon bottles, Buffalo Trace, Woodford Reserve, and Woodford Double Oaked, and after drinking Sucaba we both decided not to "bourbon oak age" ours since neither of us tasted any bourbon in it. Midorka fucked around with this message at 15:56 on May 4, 2012 |
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May 4, 2012 15:37
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Oh that reminds me; not to prove you wrong but to point out that they do use bourbon as the primary (if not only) barrel in Abacus. 2011 abacus was heavy on the coconut *edit* and was in 20-year-old Heaven’s Hill Bourbon Barrels. http://www.beerpulse.com/2011/03/firestone-walker-abacus-hits-retail-in-a-couple-weeks/ Description from 2012 Abacus off FW's page "Big boozy bourbon and American oak aromas combined with soft chocolate malty undertones. Complex malt flavors framed in oak, with hints of dark chocolate, vanilla, tobacco, coconut and just a touch of dark cherry. This is definitely a sipping beer, best served in a brandy snifter. This ale pairs well with dark chocolate and sturdy cheeses." Paul Proteus fucked around with this message at 16:18 on May 4, 2012 |
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May 4, 2012 16:12
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