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BF does parts service, if you mean they replace parts missing from the packages. I don't know about ordering individual bits, though. So far I've replaced a missing track peice from an EW British scout tank and a wheel/tire from an Italian self-propelled costal defence gun.
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May 2, 2012 13:43
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I replaced dozens of bits. I have the worst luck with Battlefront stuff 
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May 2, 2012 23:53
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HOORAY! I "read" (skimmed) the entire thread. Fascinating. I just recently bought the FoW paperback rule book (I'm careful not to open it fully) and tomorrow I'm receiving my Force on Force rule book! I really want to make a 15mm IDF and HAMAS force for squad tactical combat. Or maybe a 1973 IDF and Syrians. Or Vietnam! The main thing that's been bugging me over the past few days reading the thread was: why the hell do miniature selling websites look like such complete rear end? Who the gently caress sat down with a business plan of selling teeny tiny dudes and thought "why do we need pictures at all?" or "small resolution is good enough" or "standard screen resolution is around 800 pixels wide. Most of our customers are from rural Africa" or "web design? Is that some kind of spider thing?". Sweet work everyone. I really liked those recent cold war armor pieces, and everything else that was ever posted.
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May 6, 2012 18:55
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Hellbeard posted:HOORAY! I "read" (skimmed) the entire thread. Fascinating. I just recently bought the FoW paperback rule book (I'm careful not to open it fully) and tomorrow I'm receiving my Force on Force rule book! Haha, welcome to the world of historicals, where people under 50, weighing less than 100 kg, and with a basic computer literacy is a weird anomaly. Back when they started, all you needed was a tiny printed catalogue of item codes, and by golly that should be enough for you whippersnappers as well. There's a few sites that gets it right, but for each of them there's ten Stronghold Miniatures. Anyway, today was a DBA day for the first time in over a year. DBA is awesome in many ways. We could sit down, three people, two of us without a game in a year and the third one a complete beginner. In around three hours we had caught up with the rules, taught them to the third guy, and played four complete games. I even got my first game with my Mongol Conquest army, which I bought as a joke, and only lost 3-4. It could have turned to my advantage if he hadn't rolled like a king for his number of actions each turn, as my three pronged assault of pillow-fisted light cavalry caused the Carthaginian battle line to spread out in all directions. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 19:12 on May 6, 2012 |
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May 6, 2012 19:08
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You're interested in IDF & moderns, Vietnam and terrible web design? Good news! Peter Pig is the company for all your awesome miniatures and hideous interface needs. I used to have to highlight the page to read some of the items, but that seems to have been fixed eventually.
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May 6, 2012 19:19
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chrisoya posted:You're interested in IDF & moderns, Vietnam and terrible web design? Good news! Peter Pig is the company for all your awesome miniatures and hideous interface needs. This is true! Also if oyu're inthe US and want Peter Pig, you want to check out Brookhurst Hobbies.
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May 6, 2012 19:38
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To celebrate my Mongols, here's some pics. Unfortunately they are of the ugly, mostly mono-pose Essex kind, but they were cheap I tell you. Cheap!   In addition, I started to sculpt some 15mm buildings, as I'm happy to receive a single order of 6mm buildings every second month or so. Hopefully these will be more warmly received, but they take a lot longer to sculpt. WIP:   
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May 6, 2012 20:09
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chrisoya posted:You're interested in IDF & moderns, Vietnam and terrible web design? Good news! Peter Pig is the company for all your awesome miniatures and hideous interface needs. My eyes hate me now. Holy hell that is some terrible terrible terrible web design. I have no idea what I'm even looking at and this man makes money from people navigating this confusing eyesore? Edit: also lilljonas I love your houses- another tip I got from a pro- do general shapes first and let it cure a bit. Then do your details. Right now I'm starting on details around t+01:20 Hellbeard fucked around with this message at 21:32 on May 6, 2012 |
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May 6, 2012 21:28
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^^^^ The important thing to remember is that not only is this hobby run by grognards, the target market is grognards. Most of my historicals playing friends here are in the 35-40 region. Finding someone under 25 who plays is drat rare. lilljonas posted:In addition, I started to sculpt some 15mm buildings, as I'm happy to receive a single order of 6mm buildings every second month or so. Hopefully these will be more warmly received, but they take a lot longer to sculpt. WIP:
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May 7, 2012 02:18
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Arquinsiel posted:^^^^ Yeah tell me about... What a second. I'm 36! Screw you, sonny!
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May 7, 2012 02:51
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I picked up the FoW starter set (Achtung!) on a whim yesterday and it seems pretty neat. I went into the FLGS today and sunday is FoW day and I think I may be sold. I'm thinking I want to start playing Soviets, probably a tank battalion (because I loves me some T-34s) of some type. Anyone have any advice on starting up in this game? I've only really played 40k as far as tabletop mini games go.
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May 7, 2012 05:10
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You love the Plastic Soldier Company. They will do you right as Soviets go. It's very similar to 40k so juts read through the rules and you'll get it pretty quick. How are the new starter plastics?
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May 7, 2012 05:15
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The kits are outstanding! I've assembled both the stugs and one of the shermans. The magnetized turret on the sherman is sweet too. Great detail and easy to work with. I was also really surprised at the quality of the mini-rulebook. Really puts the 40k mini rulebook to shame.
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May 7, 2012 05:25
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Theres lots of historical and geographical reasons why many miniature makers are behind the times. Most of the guys with companies etc are hobbyists, even bigger sites like Peter Pig and Pendraken are run by people who have other day jobs (Dave from Pendraken is a college lecturer for example) so they arent devoting all their energies into doing this. Outside of the very big companies who all tend not to be historical theres not a huge profit in making miniatures. Or selling rules for that matter. Also back in the day pre internet people travelled to wargames shows to look at figures. Companies had rubbish catalogues that if you were lucky had a hand drawn pic of the mini ( I even remember the days that Game Workshop did this). The UK, being pretty much the birthplace of wargaming and where it all took off big time, has a massive network of wargames shows and these guys spent (and still do) most weekends trundling from one part of the country to the other peddling their wares. Its why UK shows are more based around shopping and US around gaming. We arent a huge country like the US so it made sense as a business model at the time. These days, yeah we have the internet, but most of these guys are 50 years+ and have developed a business model thats always worked for them. Sure times have changed and customers want more, and most now have websites, and are trying to adapt. But if you cant code, then you need to pay someone to design and maintain a website, and again theres a cost implication. Also do you have any idea how long it takes to prep and photograph minis for display. Even for unpainted minis they need flashing, washing with ink, setting up the lightbox etc, uploading, fixing in photoshop etc. A company like Pendraken has 1000s of different figures and ranges. That would take weeks to do, and while they are doing that they arent sculpting new ones, or filling orders as efficiently. At the end of the day if you dont want to buy unseen then contact them and ask for samples- most companies without great websites with pics on will send you samples either free or for postage costs. And ultimately if you dont like how they do business, dont buy from them. Yeah I know its a pain but as peopel arguing about 'its the internet, get with the times etc', the same holds true for you, go Google, it TMP or other wargaming sites- there will be wargamers out there with the figures you want, often painted who will have lots of photos of their stuff to show you. Serotonin fucked around with this message at 08:50 on May 7, 2012 |
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May 7, 2012 08:05
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Serotonin posted:Theres lots of historical and geographical reasons why many miniature makers are behind the times. Most of the guys with companies etc are hobbyists, even bigger sites like Peter Pig and Pendraken are run by people who have other day jobs (Dave from Pendraken is a college lecturer for example) so they arent devoting all their energies into doing this. Outside of the very big companies who all tend not to be historical theres not a huge profit in making miniatures. Or selling rules for that matter. That is a very interesting and illuminating response. In my mind it seems like a loss of money not to spend on getting a proper website. How many clients do these manufacturers loose because customers prefer products that seem to have better "support" and, also, the insanely simple requirement of getting to the product you want. Whatever the investment in time and money is, I'm certain that it will repay itself. It comes down to how niche or non profitable the market really is. I mean, GW is, to my perception, one of the most ingeniously marketed companies and they have plenty of customers. Also FoW with some regular, professional, marketing seems to have had a really powerful market penetration. I believe the market is there but people will gravitate towards a product that has good support, possibly not overwhelming entry price and presentation that won't make your eyes bleed. I suppose with the hobby being so high an investment in terms of time and money for a customer maybe there's room for only a few big players or systems that a hobbyist can get involved in. But with systems that allow for third party product I don't really see why Peter Pig and the such can't ride the wave with FoF and to larger extent FoW.
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May 7, 2012 08:53
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Trouble is there's only one Warhammer universe and rule system and even scale but for WW2 (for example) there's 1000s of rule sets, figure scales and manufacturers. Really hard to corner the market although FOW have given it a good go. Remember too that most miniature makers don't have associated rule sets so there's no opportunity to run a GW model ( which is essentially what FOW have done). Thats the beauty and problem with historical war gaming- way too much choice!
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May 7, 2012 09:00
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humannature posted:The kits are outstanding! I've assembled both the stugs and one of the shermans. The magnetized turret on the sherman is sweet too. Great detail and easy to work with. I was also really surprised at the quality of the mini-rulebook. Really puts the 40k mini rulebook to shame. You say that now, but wait until it starts to fall apart on you in about a day. 
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May 7, 2012 10:24
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The Soviet T34 got a huge boost under the new V3 rules. My recommendation is to find out what the people at the local store or gaming venue play as an era. A 1943 T34 list looks very different to a 1944 T34 list. For mid war 1942-1943 the book you want a look at is Eastern Front. For late war 1944-1945 the current book is Red Bear. Once you have decided on an era that will determine if you can use the T34/85 or run the T34/76. Then pick up some tanks and what ever support unit you like. Start small in points till you work out your play style.
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May 7, 2012 12:19
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The PSC T34's have swappable turrets. Great value!
Serotonin fucked around with this message at 12:57 on May 7, 2012 |
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May 7, 2012 12:29
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Serotonin posted:Trouble is there's only one Warhammer universe and rule system and even scale but for WW2 (for example) there's 1000s of rule sets, figure scales and manufacturers. Really hard to corner the market although FOW have given it a good go. Remember too that most miniature makers don't have associated rule sets so there's no opportunity to run a GW model ( which is essentially what FOW have done). Thats the beauty and problem with historical war gaming- way too much choice! Even Battlefront hasn't done it completely, because there's a ton of stuff they have rules for with no models. And unlike 40k, you can't just convert one up from your bitz box.
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May 7, 2012 12:58
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My LGS is going to be running the FoW Tank Aces campaign in a few weeks, and I'm not sure what to think about it. It seems like using any force not in Grey Wolf/Red Bear or Guns, Guts, & Glory is going to be sorely outclassed. I tried running the German Panzer division from Dogs & Devils in a LW game against someone running a Russian list from Red Bear, and was feeling short on firepower. Otherwise, recently played a game of FNG. The mission went south quick with first contact made with the enemy. Still fun, though.
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May 7, 2012 13:23
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Colonial Air Force posted:Even Battlefront hasn't done it completely, because there's a ton of stuff they have rules for with no models. And unlike 40k, you can't just convert one up from your bitz box. instead you can just go buy from one of the other 100s of 15mm WW2 sellers
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May 7, 2012 13:43
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Serotonin posted:instead you can just go buy from one of the other 100s of 15mm WW2 sellers Right, hence not like GW.
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May 7, 2012 14:00
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Serotonin posted:Theres lots of historical and geographical reasons why many miniature makers are behind the times. Most of the guys with companies etc are hobbyists, even bigger sites like Peter Pig and Pendraken are run by people who have other day jobs (Dave from Pendraken is a college lecturer for example) so they arent devoting all their energies into doing this. Outside of the very big companies who all tend not to be historical theres not a huge profit in making miniatures. Or selling rules for that matter. My counter-argument to this is that people without the internet skills and/or time to maintain a proper website with pictures probably have a son/daughter, nephew/niece, or random kid down the street who could snap a somewhat ok picture with a smartphone and upload it. Knowing me as a teenager, I was prepared to some pretty monotonous tasks for peanuts, because you're a teenager and it would beat the other lovely side jobs you can get at that age. So it would take weeks to do it? Give it to your co-workers son as a summer job, you're likely to make the cost back in increased sales. I truly believe that it is more of a mindset than sound business plans that keep these manufacturers from having a good online presence.
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May 7, 2012 15:06
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Maybe they aint big on exploitation of child labour? And most of these firms that people are moaning about have been going around 20 years. They managed before the internet when the scenario was as I described in my previous post, and they are managing now. Most of these guys are great if you ring them or drop them an email and will bend over backwards to accommodate your needs.
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May 7, 2012 15:27
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Colonial Air Force posted:Right, hence not like GW. Plenty of proxy models out there for Warhammer. They just wont let you play with them in tournaments.
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May 7, 2012 15:29
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Serotonin posted:Maybe they aint big on exploitation of child labour? Now that's a bit of a strawman. I think my point stands that there's easy ways to get pics of your producs online if you care about it. Pretty much every other retail market in the world manages, so it is kind of baffling that this one is so lacking even in 2012. To be honest, part of my bitching is because I live outside the UK and their rotating caravan of shopping shows. I can't get the kind of first hand shopping experience where you see the actual goods. So while it works great for the UK scene, it unfortunately keeps the rest of the world outside. These companies survive, of course, since the UK is such a large part of the historical market. It just kind of sucks that they don't think that the rest of the world deserves any service. E: I should also add that one common worry among historical gamers, that the hobby will gradually die out because of a lack of new blood, is not helped if you don't make it accessible to people who are used to having information available online. Faced with not only the problem of finding the right scale, the right period, and the right rules to get started, your average 20 year old gamer is probably a little more likely to say "gently caress this" and go buy some Space Marines from a company that provides inspirational pictures of well painted products. Sure, it works for the people who already have a basement full of Minifigs or whatever, but it's bad for attracting new people. I can only speak for myself, but after visiting a website with actual pictures (say, Baccus, Perry Miniatures, even Old Glory 15mm with their unpainted lead pictures) I'm super stoked about pretty much any period or scale. But with websites without pictures I'm quite hesitant, even when they're pretty much the only company making an army and scale that I'm into. Edit again: I'm sorry if my posts seem a bit antagonistic in this issue, it is not my intention. I'm merely trying to get across my view that if we want more people to pick up the historical gaming hobby, we should all work on being as accessible as possible. This means having gaming nights at your club where you teach beginners, it means posting awesome pictures of nicely painted armies, it means promoting fun games and not scaring people away by being horrible sperglords about minute details of ACW equipment. But it also means that manufacturers should have accessible websites that sell the hobby to the uninitiated. It boils down to the same thing: a shared responsibility to promote the hobby for everyone's mutual benefit. If every company only had those crappy websites, I would never have started. But some ambitious websites (in this case, Corvus Belli for 15mm and Perry Miniatures in 28mm) drew me into the hobby. Now that I'm eternally tainted I'll take the plunge now and then and order from the crappy websites as well, but without the good ones I would not be a customer for any of these companies. tl:dr: crappy websites kill this hobby in the long run, or at least outside the small circle of already initiated, who'll die off anyway in 20-30 years from eating too much curries. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 16:56 on May 7, 2012 |
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May 7, 2012 16:06
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And Ive not been defending it, my mega post on the subject was an explanation why the situation is as it is. Many newbies to historicals have graduated from GW and assume every company is like them- massive , multinational and very professional as opposed ot the reality of hobbyists casting stuff in their garden sheds. I think its a tad of a common exaggeration about these comapnies having no photographs too I cant think of many that dont show at least a large number of their catalogue. And a lot of the big names like Warlord and Perrys etc have fantastic detailed websites. Take Peter Pig which was the original example cited, sure the website is basic but slagging them off for basic website design when they have helpful photos of everything they sell is a bit much. If the hobby is going to get to the stage where people are going to be turned off by a basic website design, then we have less to worry about in the future than wargaming dying out, we will be lucky if the future generations can manage to work out how to dress themselves in the morning. Historical wargaming, in the UK at least, is a flourishing market and there's no evidence that new blood isn't entering it. Rulesets are better produced than ever and have fantastic online support- how often do you get to email a GW games designer and ask them for a rules clarification, whereas every rule set Ive bought recently, Ive been able to do just that, whether it be Rick Priestly through to smaller designers such as TFL or Sam Mustafa. Figures are better made and more available in cheaper materials than ever before. Companies are putting together unit and army deals and are making access to eras such as Napoleonics simpler than ever, and thats no mean feat, its only 5 years ago or so that it was seen by many as an impenetrable and scary period to get into. Online blogs and forums as well as resources for uniforms etc for all sorts of eras have made historical wargaming so accessible now- gently caress when I started out you had to go down the library and hope they had a decent encyclopaedia. Now I just google 'facing colour of 28th Glos' and I have pictures and information to hand. Its a Golden Age for wargaming and its only going to go forward. I also see no evidence that gaming companies are throwing up their hands and refusing to engage with the pace of change, many of them are developing better websites and using social media like Twitter and Facebook now too to discuss with their customers, pitch new ideas etc. Its the best time to be a gamer.
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May 7, 2012 17:10
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Fair points. While Peter Pig's webdesign was out of date ten years ago, I don't have any beef with them. It is easy to navigate and there's plenty of colour photos of painted miniatures on it. That's enough for me as a consumer to make the decision if I like it or not, and that is really all I ask for. My beef is with pages like Scheltrum. Bless their hearts, they cover several ranges that no-one else, or very few do. That is completely awesome, and I applaud them for it. But am I going to spring Ł43 + S&H for a 28mm scale ship, when there's not a single photo of any of their ships on the website? Not likely. I don't even demand a picture of every single code, just enough to show the general quality of their wares. I know that it is not easy to be a small miniatures company. I only have one small range, and that alone takes a lot of time and effort for more or less no money. I don't ask for everyone to put up slick, professional websites, but it is so much to ask to take a single photo of your wares? I still don't think so.
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May 7, 2012 18:27
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Well fair enough thats just odd. TBH I dont mind springing for a pack of Pendraken infantry or a tank at Ł1.30 when Ive not seen a photo of it, its not even the price of a pint of beer, but something that pricey with no pic is a little odd.
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May 7, 2012 18:50
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Serotonin posted:Maybe they aint big on exploitation of child labour? I've always figured they should call up their local high school or college and sign up with the internship or work experience programs and ask for someone with a digital camera and some web design skills. The kids get academic credit and real world experience, the company gets a cheap website. Win-win. For the love of god miniatures companies, your teenaged relatives all have a 5 MP camera in their pocket, TAKE PICTURES OF EVERYTHING.
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May 7, 2012 19:17
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A bad picture is worse than no picture though in terms of marketing.
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May 7, 2012 19:25
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mllaneza posted:I've always figured they should call up their local high school or college and sign up with the internship or work experience programs and ask for someone with a digital camera and some web design skills. The kids get academic credit and real world experience, the company gets a cheap website. Win-win. For the love of god miniatures companies, your teenaged relatives all have a 5 MP camera in their pocket, TAKE PICTURES OF EVERYTHING. I work in the education sector, and there is a large amount of fledging webdesign students who are prepared to do whatever they can to boost their portfolios. Doing websites for small local companies for free or very low cost is a common way to show that you can actually do commercial websites, not just the artsy-fartsy websites you personally prefer to code. And again, I'm not even asking for that, a snapshot with your camera is still better than nothing.
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May 7, 2012 19:30
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lilljonas posted:(in this case, Corvus Belli for 15mm and Perry Miniatures in 28mm) But yeah, Serotonin's post is the non joking version of what I said but applied to the UK. And the UK's historicals scene is a beautiful thing the likes of which I'd love to see all over.
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May 7, 2012 19:30
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I care far less about pictures than I do about ordering method. I'm not going to print out a form and fax it to you, or mail you a check.
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May 7, 2012 19:34
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Colonial Air Force posted:I care far less about pictures than I do about ordering method. I only know one company who do that, Navwar, and hes been in the business like 30 years. He's also like 90. he even only opens his shop once a week iirc. And even with that business model he got me a package within 38 hours of me faxing him.
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May 7, 2012 19:38
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Serotonin posted:I only know one company who do that, Navwar, and hes been in the business like 30 years. He's also like 90. he even only opens his shop once a week iirc. I've come across a few that don't have shopping carts or even a Paypal. Although Paypal sucks rear end for retailers so I guess I can kind of understand that.
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May 7, 2012 19:39
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Colonial Air Force posted:I've come across a few that don't have shopping carts or even a Paypal. The Perry's only got a shopping cart end of last year iirc. And yeah on the Paypal thing. I like Paypal but I get why retailers dont.
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May 7, 2012 19:41
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I also rather dislike it. Having been the victim of ebay fraud and CC fraud the main advantage of Paypal over a CC is null and void when their response is "talk to the retailer" all the time.
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May 7, 2012 21:26
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Colonial Air Force posted:Right, hence not like GW. That's why I love historicals.
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May 8, 2012 00:08
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