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Hey Cichlidae, I have been in Rural Tennessee for the past few months and it seems to me that the road network out here is just one big terrible gently caress in the rear end. What's your opinion on the absolute and utter quagmire of idiocy that is the road network of the south? I am just to the right of Jack's Creek on this map: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=chest...5,0.240326&z=13 There are lots of roads that seem to lead to loving nowhere, and ONE major highway that leads in and out of the place. Highway 100 is the domain of the stupid, bumbling, country bumpkin and his enormous 8mpg hillbillymobile pickup truck. It's entirely possible to get caught behind someone who just wants to mope along at half the 55mph limit for the entire length of the road you need to travel and have it take twice as long. They do not respond at all to headlight flashing, horn honking, or small arms fire. "Hurrr Imma get there tomorrow!" Due to my rule about never, ever loving tailgating I get lots of motherfuckers who will rush to beat the loving band just to get in between me and the rural retard who is moping along in front of me. In case you had any doubts as to this fact, the Pickup Truck, especially in the rural south, is in fact the world's most prolific beer guided motor vehicle. Living in the loving country sucks but someone's gotta take care of grandma :/ Vanagoon fucked around with this message at 21:45 on May 3, 2012 |
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May 3, 2012 21:41
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| # ? May 21, 2024 00:36 |
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Paved roads and you're 40 mins away from an Interstate, people would give they left nuts.
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May 3, 2012 22:51
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Chaos Motor posted:I'm not familiar with that specific product, but I believe the universal trade-off in cure time is amount of shrinkage and longevity - slower cure means less shrink and longer life, faster cure means more shrink and shorter life. If they've overcome one of those tradeoffs it could be huge, if they've overcome both it's revolutionary, but if they haven't changed the equation for either, it's just a slightly better tool, IMHO.
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May 3, 2012 22:51
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Good point, grover, I did not even consider the need to mix on site.
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May 4, 2012 00:40
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Cichlidae posted:Probably; we only got the directive not to use them a couple months ago, and everything that goes on the Parkway is supposed to be scenic. Street View imagery isn't great, but it certainly looks brown to me.
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May 4, 2012 01:49
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Elendil004 posted:So percentage-wise, how much traffic is road design/your fault, and how much is people can't drive and are horrible people who need to have their tires lit on fire. It depends on the road, but the terms you're looking for are recurring and non-recurring congestion, respectively. On a busy interstate like I-95, it's mostly recurring. In more isolated sections, people driving like idiots can turn an otherwise ok freeway into LOS F. Gothmog1065 posted:Let me ask this: I remember hearing in my Civil Engineering class something about some new concrete/cement that had an additive that would actually allow it to cure in about 15 minutes, and be ready to use in around a day. Have you heard of this? Is it coming to fruition? Something like that would seem to be a high priority as that would greatly reduce costs and time on construction. That's a special mixture of High Early Strength concrete. I was just reading up on concrete failure today, and they were very clear that HES concrete will have more shrinkage cracking, shrinkage being the major source of concrete deterioration. Essentially, despite curing sooner, it doesn't reach as high an ultimate strength, and has less creep in the early stages to equalize stresses. Vanagoon posted:Hey Cichlidae, I have been in Rural Tennessee for the past few months and it seems to me that the road network out here is just one big terrible gently caress in the rear end. What's your opinion on the absolute and utter quagmire of idiocy that is the road network of the south? Population density's too low to make a robust road network worthwhile. Sure, you might have to spend an extra 20 minutes driving because you're stuck behind a redneck, but that's only about $2 in a cost-benefit guy's notebook. Building higher-capacity roads costs millions, even in the sticks.
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May 4, 2012 01:55
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Chaos Motor posted:Good point, grover, I did not even consider the need to mix on site. They do a lot of prefab around here though.
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May 4, 2012 02:28
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Koesj posted:They do a lot of prefab around here though. Tell me more. Where's 'around here'? What components do they use prefab?
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May 4, 2012 03:32
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Chaos Motor posted:Tell me more. Where's 'around here'? What components do they use prefab? Around here is in the Netherlands and since there's no more slab surfacing going on because of mandatory very open asphalt concrete use (very little aquaplaning, another 1,5Db of noise reduction when double-layered) its mostly support beams, bridge elements, tunnels (Dutch engineers did a lot of new stuff with immersed tubes) etc. Current and future projects are mostly road reconstruction with very strict time and minimum capacity requirements so the 'assembly line' works can't be done in situ. There's been a number of skyscrapers going up with mostly prefab elements too because of space constraints. Maybe I'm exaggerating the trends a bit but this is what I heard assisting the project management side of undergraduate concrete civil engineering in Arnhem.
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May 4, 2012 15:13
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Vanagoon posted:Hey Cichlidae, I have been in Rural Tennessee for the past few months and it seems to me that the road network out here is just one big terrible gently caress in the rear end. What's your opinion on the absolute and utter quagmire of idiocy that is the road network of the south? I spent about 5 years of my childhood in Henderson and Lexington. It seemed about every month or so some teenager had driven their car off the road and killed themselves/others. I'm fairly certain Lexington may have had the worst drivers of any town I grew up in. It seemed all the drivers out there either thought they were trying out for NASCAR or stuck in Tennessee time where nobody needs to be anywhere in the next year. Also, turn signals were purely an aesthetic part of the vehicle which stuck me as odd given how many people were emblazoned in orange Vols gear. Seems like they could show some team spirit by using it.
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May 5, 2012 01:10
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Hingham MA also has that red/white/blue centerline on main street...I thought only that one RI town was allowed!?
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May 6, 2012 21:20
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North Andover, MA had that a few years back -- it was for the town's tricentennial in 1997 or so.
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May 6, 2012 21:42
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Elendil004 posted:Hingham MA also has that red/white/blue centerline on main street...I thought only that one RI town was allowed!? It's the only one allowed by Congress, yes. Doesn't mean it's unique in having it. Green centerlines are also common in places that have Saint Patrick's Day parades. I suppose you could get a lot of those colorful centerlines removed through targeted lawsuits, but that's just a dick move.
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May 7, 2012 00:09
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So I was driving through Tempe, AZ the other night, and I swear it looked like at some of their arterial intersections that they have both protected left phases back to back. Was I dreaming (been doing a lot of that coming off of surgery, heh) or is that actually a thing?
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May 7, 2012 01:52
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Cichlidae posted:It's the only one allowed by Congress, yes. Doesn't mean it's unique in having it. Green centerlines are also common in places that have Saint Patrick's Day parades. I wonder if I could extort the town...
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May 7, 2012 02:30
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Google is failing me in finding pictures of it, but I found it interesting in Istanbul that they have pop-up bollards at a lot of major intersections. The big steel bollards came up during red lights to prevent the insane Turkish drivers from just ignoring the signals. I wonder how many lawsuits that would create in the USA.
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May 7, 2012 02:44
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IOwnCalculus posted:So I was driving through Tempe, AZ the other night, and I swear it looked like at some of their arterial intersections that they have both protected left phases back to back. Was I dreaming (been doing a lot of that coming off of surgery, heh) or is that actually a thing? Could be lead phasing on one road, and lag on the other. Then, it would go: 2&6 - 1&5 - 3&7 - 4&8 Dinozaur posted:Google is failing me in finding pictures of it, but I found it interesting in Istanbul that they have pop-up bollards at a lot of major intersections. The big steel bollards came up during red lights to prevent the insane Turkish drivers from just ignoring the signals. I wonder how many lawsuits that would create in the USA. They have those for bus lanes in England, and if nothing else, it makes for some pretty hilarious videos.
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May 7, 2012 03:28
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dinozaur posted:Google is failing me in finding pictures of it, but I found it interesting in Istanbul that they have pop-up bollards at a lot of major intersections. The big steel bollards came up during red lights to prevent the insane Turkish drivers from just ignoring the signals. I wonder how many lawsuits that would create in the USA. None; it would just lead to a change in political leadership because BIG GOVERNMENT SPENDING OUR TAX MONEY SOCIALIST ROAD POLES
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May 7, 2012 05:37
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This new white line is intended to demarcate a bike lane, our city's first. The streetside parking is staying, but there will apparently be more markings going in to show the cars they need to be over to the right. It's causing much controversy among local cyclists. Some are happy to have a safe place to ride. Others observe that the white line pretty much marks the end of the "door zone" and the whole effort is counterproductive. What's your professional opinion?
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May 7, 2012 14:17
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Civilized and educated nations build their bike paths as part of the sidewalk system, not road system.
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May 7, 2012 15:27
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Baronjutter posted:Civilized and educated nations build their bike paths as part of the sidewalk system, not road system. In the US, bikes are usually considered to be subject to the same traffic laws as cars, and riding on the sidewalk isn't always allowed. Plus I don't think you can really divorce the sidewalk system and the road system. That said, this is the better way to do bike lanes:   
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May 7, 2012 15:56
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Yeah, bike lanes in the door zone, especially with an unconditioned population not used to looking for cyclists, can be bad.
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May 7, 2012 16:03
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   In Berlin they're mostly integrated into the sidewalks or between parked cars and the sidewalk and physically separated enough to be out of the door zone. I like the idea of widening sidewalks for bike lanes, rather than widening or just re-painting streets. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 17:40 on May 7, 2012 |
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May 7, 2012 17:37
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saint gerald posted:This new white line is intended to demarcate a bike lane, our city's first. The streetside parking is staying, but there will apparently be more markings going in to show the cars they need to be over to the right. Also, that NYC design really uses 18' for the bike lane and buffer? That's kind of insane. And that's only one direction I think. Of course, that's NYC where it seems like they would ideally like to just shut down most of the streets in midtown. smackfu fucked around with this message at 17:58 on May 7, 2012 |
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May 7, 2012 17:49
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Baronjutter posted:
That "widening the sidewalk" looks the same to me as repainting (and hence narrowing) the street. Some of them are using different paving material, but they seem to be at the same level as the street anyway. smackfu posted:Also, that NYC design really uses 18' for the bike lane and buffer? That's kind of insane. And that's only one direction I think. Of course, that's NYC where it seems like they would ideally like to just shut down most of the streets in midtown. This is the design on the avenues. Before, the avenues would be 6 or 7 lanes wide, with the outer 2 lanes used for parking. On the parts of the avenues where the bike lanes are now, the bike lane is also a car lane for left-turning traffic when there's a left turn. So the bike lane has to be a full 10 foot lane. With barriers put in so that cars can only cross in at certain points, there wasn't enough room left over for another full traffic lane, so that's why the buffer space is as wide as it is. Here's a street view of an intersection where left turning cars must go over to the bike lane: http://g.co/maps/mftw4
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May 7, 2012 18:16
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I think it has very important safety/physiological aspects. When bike lanes are just a line of paint on the road, many drives still see it as THEIR space, their domain. Sidewalks on the other hand are clearly not a place for cars to drive, so putting bike lanes behind a curb of some sort keeps them safe and separated. Also nice wide sidewalks where the edges have a special colour/paving look way nicer than a big fat road with a lane painted on it.
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May 7, 2012 18:28
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Baronjutter posted:When bike lanes are just a line of paint on the road, many drives still see it as THEIR space, their domain.
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May 7, 2012 18:33
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Baronjutter posted:I think it has very important safety/physiological aspects. When bike lanes are just a line of paint on the road, many drives still see it as THEIR space, their domain. Sidewalks on the other hand are clearly not a place for cars to drive, so putting bike lanes behind a curb of some sort keeps them safe and separated. Also nice wide sidewalks where the edges have a special colour/paving look way nicer than a big fat road with a lane painted on it. The ones you posted in Berlin appear to have frequent physical barriers, like those little pillar things, even if they don't completely border the bike lane. I'd say those are doing much more to keep things separated than the different pavement does. 
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May 7, 2012 18:41
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Baronjutter posted:
This. I want this in America.
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May 7, 2012 18:42
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smackfu posted:What did they actually do to add the bike lane? Was the whole street/sidewalk redone to add more width to the road? No, they just repaved and painted that line on the road. They're going to add bike-specific markings at some point. Along most of its length they took it from four lanes (two each way) to three (one each way, and a protected left turn lane), but if memory serves that particular section had been three lanes of traffic for a while. My take on it is that the only way it's safe is to ride on the line, or a touch to its left. As luck would have it, that's illegal in this state: if there's a bike lane adjacent to the road, you have to use it. Those split sidewalks are nice, until you come up behind some dozy gently caress pedestrian who's happily strolling down the bike side. In the town where I grew up we had these, which had the same problem.
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May 7, 2012 18:55
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Yeah I was that pedestrian a lot in Berlin... sometimes the bike paving is too subtle and I'd wander into it, specially on really busy streets. Usually people just ring their bell or politely warn you they're coming up behind you.
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May 7, 2012 19:17
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saint gerald posted:No, they just repaved and painted that line on the road. They're going to add bike-specific markings at some point. Along most of its length they took it from four lanes (two each way) to three (one each way, and a protected left turn lane), but if memory serves that particular section had been three lanes of traffic for a while. Which is better than some dozy gently caress driver in an SUV who's happily strolling down the bike lane because they think that it's just shoulder.
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May 7, 2012 19:51
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Baronjutter posted:Yeah I was that pedestrian a lot in Berlin... sometimes the bike paving is too subtle and I'd wander into it, specially on really busy streets. Usually people just ring their bell or politely warn you they're coming up behind you. And it's certainly easier to get the attention of a pedestrian than that of a car driver. In Denmark, bike lanes are usually level separated from both the sidewalk and the car lanes, even if it's sometimes only an artificial level separation. Street view
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May 7, 2012 20:11
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What it all comes down to of course is cost. A curb alone is so much more expensive than just painting a line.
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May 7, 2012 20:14
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As a cyclist, I disagree with the sidewalk bike lane. In areas with lots of intersections and driveways it creates serious issues. There is a problem with drivers not seeing bikes on a sidewalk. A combination of increased speeds v the peds that the drivers expect and far more sight line obstructions like parked cars and poles, etc cause problems. Generally the intersection is a much more dangerious place than the road and the sidewalk style bike path/lane increases that. Bikes very rarely get hit by cars going straight anyhow, it is people turning or crossing.
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May 7, 2012 20:33
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PerryMason posted:I spent about 5 years of my childhood in Henderson and Lexington. It seemed about every month or so some teenager had driven their car off the road and killed themselves/others. I'm fairly certain Lexington may have had the worst drivers of any town I grew up in. loving THANK YOU. Sweet, glorious vindication. I couldn't have put it better myself. All the  here do in fact seem to think they are Ayrton Senna or "gently caress it I'll get there when I get there".I am starting to think that I am the smartest person in this whole place. A couple of days ago I had one of my redneck retard relatives admonish me for using "the D-Word" when speaking to another relative. What in the gently caress kind of a grown-rear end man even says "D-Word". They're like a bunch of intellectually and socially stunted, easily offended little children. It's kind of creepy. I am here helping Grandma get well and as soon as that happens I am loving gone. I mean drat (there's that word they dislike) I have never been around people who are this simple before. I don't even know how to deal with it.
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May 7, 2012 22:51
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nielsm posted:And it's certainly easier to get the attention of a pedestrian than that of a car driver. It's interesting that the physically separated bike lanes are always wider than the painted-on road bike lanes we tend to have in the UK (see http://g.co/maps/kty6h). While this might be a consequence of a general better attitude towards cyclists, I think it's more an admission that the tiny road lanes would be much to narrow to actually keep in safely if you were physically constrained within them.
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May 8, 2012 02:28
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We're putting in a new pair of bike lanes in East Hartford, though it's going to be a total pain in the butt to get rid of on-street parking. The location is US 44: it's currently 2X2 lanes, with the outer lanes available for parking. Used to have a streetcar down the middle, which is why it's so wide now. We're making it 1 lane each direction + left turn lanes + 2X bike lanes. Problem is, the whole thing's not being done at once, and in the transition areas, on-street parking is still allowed in the bike lane. Our solution, for now, is not to stripe the shoulder yet. It'll be one very wide travel lane in each direction, about 18 feet. That leaves room for parking, bikes, and travel, without explicitly channelizing any of them. We'll get rid of the parking and stripe it properly in time, provided someone doesn't start pulling political strings to keep their parking. Jonnty posted:It's interesting that the physically separated bike lanes are always wider than the painted-on road bike lanes we tend to have in the UK That could be an issue of retrofit vs. new build, not necessarily design philosophy.
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May 8, 2012 03:42
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Cichlidae posted:provided someone doesn't start pulling political strings to keep their parking my parking  yeah, this might be a problem :|
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May 8, 2012 04:13
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Just started reading through this thread and decided to look into those diverging diamond interchanges mentioned early on. Turns out my hometown is looking into building one! I'm actually pretty excited about this because there has always been a lot of problems with that interchange and this would be a welcome change to my commute, although probably not while its under construction. Plus, it would be the first diverging diamond interchange in the state of Colorado, which is pretty exciting just on its own. I guess these interchanges are starting to catch on.
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May 8, 2012 05:16
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