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mcustic posted:I'm 45 percent into Bonehunters and it still feels like a prologue. Will this get any better soon? Yeah, it does pick up later. I felt that the rest of the series became more and more of a slog in the beginning, but ended on amazing climaxes. I think TTH is the worst of all of them in this regard, that book took me the longest to get through. E:VVV I didn't mind the scenes nearly as much as the needless internal philosophizing that each tortured character seemed to do, but yeah the damned editor should have tried harder. 
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Apr 4, 2012 20:01
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Lyer posted:Yeah, it does pick up later. I felt that the rest of the series became more and more of a slog in the beginning, but ended on amazing climaxes. I think TTH is the worst of all of them in this regard, that book took me the longest to get through. Erikson said in an interview that after a while his editor kinda gave up and stopped pushing hard to cut scenes, much to Erikson's delight. You can really see that kick into gear in the Bonehunters and it only gets worse from there on out. There are even a few later story lines (the Snake) that could be taken out wholesale without damaging the books. I believe he also said that he thought readers probably wished that his editor had pushed harder to cut scenes. 
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Apr 4, 2012 20:10
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mcustic posted:I'm 45 percent into Bonehunters and it still feels like a prologue. Will this get any better soon? Bonehunters felt like a transitional book to me so no, it won't improve much but Erikson is good about giving knockout endings. The next one, Reaper's Gale, was better.
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Apr 4, 2012 21:26
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Dunno if anyone cares about the Suvudu cage matches, but Rake is currently losing to Moiraine. They're lovely popularity contests, but if you feel like it, head over and vote for Rake. No signup or anything required. http://sf-fantasy.suvudu.com/2012/04/cage-match-round-5-anomander-rake-versus-moiraine-damodred.html/comment-page-3#comment-48829
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Apr 5, 2012 02:53
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Well I turned to Abercrombie after the Malazan books, but after reading five of his books, the same magic just isn't there. They are entertaining enough timewasters I guess, but not in the same league. About a year after finishing the books ... I still haven't read or even heard of anything that even remotely compares.
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Apr 9, 2012 04:06
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AcidCat posted:Well I turned to Abercrombie after the Malazan books, but after reading five of his books, the same magic just isn't there. They are entertaining enough timewasters I guess, but not in the same league. Take a look at Glen Cook's The Black Company. I've only read the first few in the series, but I think earlier in the thread someone said they were a major influence on Erikson. They're fairly short, 300-400 pages, and you can get the first book used on Amazon for 1¢ plus shipping.
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Apr 9, 2012 07:59
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zokie posted:I just finished Orb, Sceptre, Throne and I'm confused as gently caress, it was better written then Esselmosts previous books but I have a lot of questions... It was definitely the best of Esselmont's books and in a lot of ways better than the books post-Bonehunters of Erikson's because it got back to some of the epic conflicts and battles and less of the long-winded philosophizing. I had some issues with it but overall well-done. I'll try to help out on some of the questions you had that I remember the answers to. quote:When did Topper stop loving around and interdicting the Imperial Warren and become Clawmaster again? Also didn't he recognize something in Kiska and didn't kill her because of it. Something of her blood? Topper returns towards the end of RotCG to fight the assassin master of the CG, whatever his name was. Presumably he's offered his old post by Mallick after that. quote:Did the Moranth let the Seguleh leave because they realized they where still allied to Daseem or because he now was 'First'? If the latter, how come? I don't think that particular detail about Dassem being Traveller and the last signee of the treaty still being alive would have been written into the story if that wasn't the case. With Dassem becoming the First of the Seguleh, it basically forced the Moranth and Seguleh to put aside their differences because of the binding nature of the treaty. Additionally, I think there was a healthy dose of respect for Dassem amongst the Moranth. quote:Oru, the dude that found the First-mask found it in Moons Spawn right? And got Darujistan with Antsy. But didn't he leave to find the Seventh? Which should be Rakes? Why was the First-mask in Moon's Spawn? Yeah, Oru recovered the unmarred mask from the thief in Moon's Spawn. I believe Rake became Seventh when he invaded the island and stole the unmarred mask. I vaguely remember the Seguleh mentioning how Blacksword stole something of great worth to their people way back in like MoI. quote:Who the gently caress is Orchid? The child of Anomander and Silanah? Where was she raised. So little is revealed of her that it really annoyed me. This one isn't really a spoiler because I have no idea and we're just not told enough to make it one. quote:Malakai just buggers of? Some dude that wanted to out-steal Apsalar. But how could stealing from a vacant Moon's Spawn be harder that doing it when tons of Andii are occupying it? No idea who this guy was either. Seemed like a vehicle to get Antsy to the Spawns and introduce Orchid and that's about it. quote:What was the task that Tayschreen decided to try that Kiska didn't like? All of this was confusing as hell... The whole Tayschrenn storyline was weird. I'm not really sure where it went or where it's going. Why does he change his name? Why is that the very end of the book, like it's some massive reveal? edit: Wait, I think I understand. Tayschrenn becomes the new K'rul, hence T'renn. His blood is now the warrens like K'rul's was. The old woman Kiska meets while Tayschrenn is talking to D'rek is K'rul. There's a new pantheon of gods rising to replace the old - Hood has been replaced with the Bridgeburners, Shadow has replaced Dark and Light, and Tayschrenn has taken K'rul's place. quote:Did Caladan just walk into Darujistan, punch the ring to break it and leave? This was really anti-climactic. Also the T'lan Imass that got rescued in the mine and now lives with Reast, what was the point of him going in and out of the Great Hall. It seemed to me that Kruppe had already defeated the Tyrant. I think that was kind of the point. This book is kind of interesting because it's really about mortals taking care of business. There aren't many Ascendants in this one. Even the Tyrant is just some ultra-powerful possibly undead and/or magical wizard mortal, not an Ascendant; the Seguleh Second is a super-powerful warrior but it's probably obvious that Traveller would annihilate him. The reason for it featuring fewer Ascendants, of course, is that all the Ascendants are busy off in Kolanse. So the book is kind of at a different power level than the Book of the Fallen, so to speak. We're looking at the B league. The A league characters in the novel all are kind of off to the side - Brood, Traveller/Dassem. When one actually does show up, he basically punches this thing that's impregnable to even Moranth munitions and it breaks. The T'lan Imass was there because he thought the Tyrant was a Jaghut. Kruppe already had defeated the Tyrant; I think the Imass was just there to show that the Tyrant was, in fact, a human unlike Raest. Or that the original Tyrant was a Jaghut, but had used the mask and pearl or whatever as a way to avoid the attention of the Imass. quote:Who are The Heel that knew Fisher? Are we supposed to know? I'm guessing they're from Assail. Remember that's where Esselmont's next book will be set. One thing I'm not clear on is the Draconus timeline. He shows up as Morn in Moon's Spawn, then to Lady Envy in Darujhistan, and then he's in TCG with Ublala Pung. I get that he's back, but how is he in so many places at once? HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 21:00
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I have yet to start the sixth book, but I was thinking about something last night: is it ever stated anywhere how people actually figure out they can use magic/warrens? Like a kid does something crazy and opens a warren without thinking, and then the parents send him/her off to magic school to become a squad mage for the army? We just seem to take if for granted that the people that can make use of warrens have always been able to since the beginning of time.
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Apr 16, 2012 23:27
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pakman posted:I have yet to start the sixth book, but I was thinking about something last night: is it ever stated anywhere how people actually figure out they can use magic/warrens? Like a kid does something crazy and opens a warren without thinking, and then the parents send him/her off to magic school to become a squad mage for the army? We just seem to take if for granted that the people that can make use of warrens have always been able to since the beginning of time. Kinda. I'm only on Bonehunters now but in Midnight Tides we see Seren Pedac figure out she can use Mockra when she's loving around with Iron Bars.
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Apr 16, 2012 23:54
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pakman posted:I have yet to start the sixth book, but I was thinking about something last night: is it ever stated anywhere how people actually figure out they can use magic/warrens? Like a kid does something crazy and opens a warren without thinking, and then the parents send him/her off to magic school to become a squad mage for the army? We just seem to take if for granted that the people that can make use of warrens have always been able to since the beginning of time. When they turn 15 they get to look at their character sheet and then choose their magic proficiency and whether it is latent or not.
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Apr 16, 2012 23:57
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pakman posted:I have yet to start the sixth book, but I was thinking about something last night: is it ever stated anywhere how people actually figure out they can use magic/warrens? Like a kid does something crazy and opens a warren without thinking, and then the parents send him/her off to magic school to become a squad mage for the army? We just seem to take if for granted that the people that can make use of warrens have always been able to since the beginning of time. Huh, I don't think they manifest like Marvel mutant powers. It's implied that magic is usually innate, but not that it suddenly manifests out of control. Things are usually subtle, as subtle is human action. Magic in Malazan is "emergent" from the real world, so it would always come out of a suspicion. I don't think there are magic schools since it's not something you can "teach". You don't learn "spells". So dealing with magic is mostly about what you manage to pull out and master. You could ideally "tutor" someone else, but the journey is personal. Then I guess it depends on the religious system is based on, since different kinds of magic can crop up and change the rules. It may as well be that somewhere there's a tribe that believes that if you fall in a magic river you acquire some magic properties, and that would be enough to make it "real" in the Malazan world. But usually warrens don't work that way.
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Apr 17, 2012 02:45
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It varies wildly from character to character. The most elaborate description of (one very particular instance of) how becoming a mage works was with Beak, in Reaper's Gale. (Don't spoil it for yourself if you haven't read RG yet.)
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Apr 17, 2012 11:36
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Lyer posted:I think TTH is the worst of all of them in this regard, that book took me the longest to get through. I'm actually liking TTH quite a bit more than I liked RG. I think the fact that there is very little focus on one-dimensional soldier characters in the book makes it a nice break from the earlier books. There are some things I don't much care for in it though, namely the endless stream of sexy parties in Darujistan (sigh)
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Apr 20, 2012 13:14
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Started Memories of Ice a little while ago and just had two things to say: I've witnessed the meeting of Crone and Kruppe and it was glorious. And I need to make this joke: Oh Paran, you're such a card You can now carry on with your regular scheduled programming. Thank you for your time.
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Apr 26, 2012 18:04
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I think I can see what you mean where the editors stop changing things. I'm doing my first read of the series, and I'm on TTH. In the past 2 books, he really fell in love with the word detritus.
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Apr 27, 2012 00:40
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I finished Stonewielder a few days ago and I have to say I really liked it, maybe even a little more than I liked Crimson Guard. It was the first ICE novel I've read yet where I could tell from the outset how all the different stories (apart from Kiska's) related to each other. The Malazan marines were the best part of the novel as usual, Manask also ended up being pretty awesome. I don't think the ending was quite as tight as RotCG's but I'm still glad I took the time to read it instead of rushing straight to The Crippled God.
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Apr 27, 2012 20:48
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Just found this thread, I'm about 3/4 of the way through Memories of Ice...The only thing I can really contribute right now is that I loved the gently caress out of the 1st book, love the one I'm on, too, but 2...well, Deadhouse Gates was a really great book, after I finished it. It was really tough getting through at first, but once everything started kind of coming together towards the end it was really enjoyable.
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May 7, 2012 03:57
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I actually pretty much hated both the first two. Gardens of the Moon I was expecting because of this thread, but I had actual expectations for Deadhouse Gates and while it was better written... it was still written too much like a history textbook. The only reason I even started on Memories of Ice is because I asked for it for Christmas along with DG... and I'm really enjoying it. I finally get why people love this series.
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May 7, 2012 06:38
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I just finished up Reaper's Gale, and goddamn this more than any previous book just drives home the pressing need of a real editor for this series. A lot of awesome things happened... in the last 30 pages of the book. The bulk of it was just rambling and rambling and rambling and blah blah. think I'm kinda burnt out for now. OH also a spoiler question: Can someone please tell me how the gently caress the Barghast just "showed up" in the middle of the Awl battle? It's been so long since we last heard of Tool and whatserface.
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May 7, 2012 17:15
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Stew Man Chew posted:I just finished up Reaper's Gale, and goddamn this more than any previous book just drives home the pressing need of a real editor for this series. A lot of awesome things happened... in the last 30 pages of the book. The bulk of it was just rambling and rambling and rambling and blah blah. It is explained further on.
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May 7, 2012 17:21
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Donald Duck posted:It is explained further on. argh, OK because this has been bugging me... you know more than all the other bizarre things that happen. It's difficult to read events as foreshadowing when so many other things aren't really explained ever, you just take it on faith that that's how they end up working.
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May 7, 2012 17:23
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Stew Man Chew posted:think I'm kinda burnt out for now. I started off reading the series back to back and then reached just after the half-way point and had to start alternating other books between Malazan ones because they just take so drat long. I've still got I.C.E's books to read Stonewielder and the other new one. Not sure when I'll go back to that series though.
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May 7, 2012 17:40
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Lunchtray posted:I started off reading the series back to back and then reached just after the half-way point and had to start alternating other books between Malazan ones because they just take so drat long. Yeah. I alternate between some nonfiction books (I get too riled up reading Chomsky before bed) and I feel like I'm going to lose whatever tenuous grasp I have of Malazan chain of events / mechanics / characters if I tarry too long away from the series. Ughhhh
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May 7, 2012 18:03
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i thought all these questions about the series, the loopholes and open-ended plots, were part of the fun. it felt like erikson wasn't treating you like a baby. he didn't hand-hold you all the way through, especially in regard to the mechanics of the magic system. any other writer might have given you a chapter which set out all the rules, explained the how-tos, and gave you a few illustrated examples before slapping you around the head with a dead fish and yelling in your ear, "didja geddit?" it's so rare to find a fantasy series where you just know that, when you give it a re-read in a year or two, you're definitely going to find a few things you didn't find before.
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May 8, 2012 14:44
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mister c posted:i thought all these questions about the series, the loopholes and open-ended plots, were part of the fun. it felt like erikson wasn't treating you like a baby. he didn't hand-hold you all the way through, especially in regard to the mechanics of the magic system. any other writer might have given you a chapter which set out all the rules, explained the how-tos, and gave you a few illustrated examples before slapping you around the head with a dead fish and yelling in your ear, "didja geddit?" Not to continue my rambling trainwreck of thought, but there's a huge difference between loopholes and open-ended plots and "poo poo just happens for no reason" which, on a first read-through, at least seems to happen an awful lot. Erikson dedicates an enormous volume of words to description and wandering philosophical self-reflection: why can't he spare one of the seventeen paragraphs about Minor Character X's views on Honor to you know. Mention why an entire race of beings just pops into existence and averts a major plot point.
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May 8, 2012 17:37
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Stew Man Chew posted:why can't he spare one of the seventeen paragraphs about Minor Character X's views on Honor to you know. Mention why an entire race of beings just pops into existence and averts a major plot point. Welcome to the pain that is the latter half of this series.
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May 8, 2012 23:45
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Finished The Crippled God, gotta say I'm seriously bummed now that I'm done with the main series. It took me about a year from GotM to TCG to finish and I didn't really take any breaks. While I agree that the first half of the series is stronger than the second half, I found every book enjoyable all the way through and I'm really glad I took the time to read this series. I really don't know how I'm going to get back into more conventional fantasy novels now, I'm about 100 pages into Way of Kings and can't imagine finding the drive to finish this book that I had since about Part 3 of Gardens of the Moon for the Malazan series. TCG spoiler talk: I'm seriously surprised by how many characters ended up making it through. Gesler, Stormy and Mappo dying all hit hard, as did Cuttle and Corabb to a lesser extent, but Fiddler surviving was unexpected and awesome. Draconus ended up being a lot cooler than I was thinking he'd be around TtH, but I was disappointed that he took off after the Errant halfway through the book and never reappeared. I'm hoping we get to find out what happens in a future book. The Shake plotline of TCG definitely got me more excited about Erikson's Kharkanas trilogy. I'm now really interested in getting a look at the early Tiste Andii as well as some of the events alluded to in flashbacks throughout DoD and TCG. I've still got Sceptre, Orb, Throne to pick up sometime too, and I imagine I'll want to start a reread soon enough... In any case, thanks for making this thread because it's what got me to check these books out!
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May 9, 2012 00:30
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Alright, I'm towards the end of Memories of Ice and put it down for a moment to pose a question that someone can hopefully answer without spoiling too much: I'm at the part where Paran and Dujek and Quick are all at Coral, and there's a condor that Quick has Paran draw a card of, then hits it, fight ensues, etc. My question is: Is Quick Ben basically just Deus Ex Machina personified in this series? He always seems to know exactly what to do at the right time, every time. Granted I'm not very far into the series, but I have a feeling he's going to remain just as mysterious throughout. Yeah I read books. fucked around with this message at 08:20 on May 9, 2012 |
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May 9, 2012 08:15
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Yeah I read books. posted:Alright, I'm towards the end of Memories of Ice and put it down for a moment to pose a question that someone can hopefully answer without spoiling too much: I guess in a way you could call him a Deus Ex Marine-a! But yeah, the mystery is never fully solved. Not in the main series anyway. If anything he becomes more perplexing. That said, given the setting he isn't ridiculous.
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May 9, 2012 08:23
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The Ninth Layer posted:TCG spoiler talk: I'm seriously surprised by how many characters ended up making it through. Gesler, Stormy and Mappo dying all hit hard, as did Cuttle and Corabb to a lesser extent, but Fiddler surviving was unexpected and awesome. Draconus ended up being a lot cooler than I was thinking he'd be around TtH, but I was disappointed that he took off after the Errant halfway through the book and never reappeared. I'm hoping we get to find out what happens in a future book. This is my personal take on it, but if you think about it for a bit, Fiddler is the main character of the series. I think Erikson throws you for a loop with Paran being the master of the deck and all, but Paran really doesn't do poo poo the entire series. The earlier books basically setup how awesome the Bridgeburners were and that's Fiddler's backstory, then you get Fiddler helping to lay the foundations of what the Bonehunters will be, etc etc. Then you basically have Fiddler as the last line of defense for TCG when they're holding off the hordes when they're freeing him. That or Erikson had some really lucky dice rolls for that character during his RPing campaigns and he somehow made it through it all.
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May 9, 2012 08:27
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Yeah I read books. posted:My question is: Is Quick Ben basically just Deus Ex Machina personified in this series? He always seems to know exactly what to do at the right time, every time. He does remain that but I think by that point you're supposed to picture him as constantly and I mean almost literally constantly thinking about everything that is going on in the world trying to fit it all together in order to be able to use that knowledge; the root of his power being his (considerable) intellect.
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May 9, 2012 08:29
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Lyer posted:This is my personal take on it, but if you think about it for a bit, Fiddler is the main character of the series. I think Erikson throws you for a loop with Paran being the master of the deck and all, but Paran really doesn't do poo poo the entire series. The earlier books basically setup how awesome the Bridgeburners were and that's Fiddler's backstory, then you get Fiddler helping to lay the foundations of what the Bonehunters will be, etc etc. Then you basically have Fiddler as the last line of defense for TCG when they're holding off the hordes when they're freeing him. He was also in the opening and closing scene, which is something of a must for the main protagonist. I mean we all thought that either Paran or Whiskeyjack was "the main guy" based on the opening scene to the series, but Fiddler was there too. He was one of four speaking roles I believe, along with Ganoes Paran, Whiskeyjack and Laseen.
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May 9, 2012 08:34
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I don't really have much to add right now, other than that I'm starting House of Chains, and that the ending of Memories of Ice was loving fantastic.
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May 10, 2012 00:14
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A couple of years after reading Gardens of the Moon I am finally about to start Deadhouse Gates. I read the OP and the warning about spoilers across the internet, also I like diagram.. Just wanted to ask if there are any major players or plot points I should refresh myself on from the first one before I start the second.
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May 10, 2012 02:27
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loudog999 posted:A couple of years after reading Gardens of the Moon I am finally about to start Deadhouse Gates. I read the OP and the warning about spoilers across the internet, also I like diagram.. Just wanted to ask if there are any major players or plot points I should refresh myself on from the first one before I start the second. lol no. You'll understand why when you start it.
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May 10, 2012 03:27
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I'm finally re-reading the series and GOTM is incredibly enjoyable now. It took me about 7 months to read the first time through. I'm not a big Malazan fan, and I hated the books more than I liked them while reading the first time. But after finishing it, you do get a sort of... respect? for the series. It's hard for me to explain. I wish the series was more accessible the first time through for new readers. I only started them last year and I loving hated reading almost all of the second half books, yet when you look back you 'feel' for those characters and understand everything they went through. I dunno how to put it into words well. I feel Malazan reads like a history book, and is so tedious, but the end result actually makes you care. Unfortunately there aren't many like me who will go "gently caress WHY AM I READING MORE PHILOSOPHY FROM CHARACTER #46765564 AFTER I JUST READ 3 CHAPTERS AND 7 CHARACTERS WITH THE SAME THOUGHTS??" but after the first 4 books I dared myself to finish it. Author seems kind of a dick though.
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May 10, 2012 03:33
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Oh my god, I'm reading the beginning of House of Chains (Karsa,) and it is loving awesome. "There were eleven adult dogs in the pack and three not quite full-grown. They fell in step behind Karsa and Gnaw, leaving their lone fallen kin unchallenged ruler of the shelf beneath the cliff. Until the flies came." was such a cool paragraph. Sorry I'm busting my nut itt constantly, I just really like these books and am really happy I'm not even halfway through my journey
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May 10, 2012 08:25
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I'm about 1/5 of the way into House of Chains and just came across a strange line from the Malazans that capture Karsa, about their army being held up at Pale. Now, can someone tell me without spoiling too much, if this is taking place at the same time as the first book, or is it just a case of being on a different continent and having old news?
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May 10, 2012 22:34
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It's a blend of the two. You can consider the two to be relatively parallel. And that line was erikson informing the reader of the fact somewhat subtly.
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May 10, 2012 22:40
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Stew Man Chew posted:It's a blend of the two. You can consider the two to be relatively parallel. And that line was erikson informing the reader of the fact somewhat subtly. Ah, thanks. Realized after I saw your post and had read a few pages farther on, there's a very not-so-subtle conversation that confirms what you said, on almost the next page, ha.
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May 10, 2012 23:09
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