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I just killed a four pack of Sixpoint Apollo without even thinking about it. You guys need to drink this stuff ASAP! Such a phenomenal wheat beer and I'd even put it up against Weihenstephaner at this point.
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May 10, 2012 03:16
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Edit: I should preface this by saying I love beer and don't want to be Debbie Downer. I just don't see the boundless optimism of "soon everyone will have an IPA in her hand!" as realistic. On the bubble thing, at some point craft beer growth does have to plateau. Yeah, right now it only has five percent market share but I have difficulty imagining it approaching 50% or even 20%. Much as we hate to admit it, a lot of people (apparently 95%?) just don't want craft beer. The flavors are challenging, it costs more, it has more calories, "my granddad drank Bud and my dad drank Bud and I sure as poo poo drink BUD", whatever. And on top of that, the market is absurdly crowded. There's already probably more individual beers produced in Colorado than I could drink in a year if I had 1 per day, not to count out-of-state brews we get, and there are hundreds more breweries/brewpubs I can't get here at all. And that's just US craft beer. I don't see the craft beer market collapsing, but I foresee growth tapering off. Dark Lord Day seems crowded, til you do the math on those 3000 people or whatever divided by the US drinking age population. And who knows, maybe in another 10 years beer will fall out of fashion and microdistilleries will be all the rage (this is already happening). Casual Yogurt posted:The proof is in the beer, if your brewery makes lovely beer you probably won't survive very long. I've been to some pretty awful breweries that the locals still pack into, inexplicably. My local CooperSmiths brewpub, for example, brews some of the worst beer in town (we have like 10 breweries  ). But I'll be damned if it isn't jam packed almost every night of the week. Part of it is that the restaurant side of the business is very good so people go there to eat and end up buying beer. But I still think that us beer geeks are a way smaller proportion of the population than we like to think. As I said above, most people just don't care what they're drinking as long as it's cold and goes down easy.Had the same experience at The Dodging Duck brewpub outside San Antonio. Food was great, the restaurant had a nice location, and it was very busy on a weekday night. But holy poo poo, it was the worst beer I have ever had in my life. I've had basic extract-based, 2 gallon boil, no-temp-control homebrew that was 100x better.
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May 10, 2012 03:48
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Brewpubs are a whole different ball game though.
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May 10, 2012 03:54
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Isn't that still better than BMC pints? I mean, come on. At least they're supporting a local business.
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May 10, 2012 03:59
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Midorka posted:Brewpubs are a whole different ball game though. True, re: my second point. But I don't think that detracts from the fact that craft beer (in whatever format) is the hot thing right now, can't grow forever, and a majority of people just don't and will never value it. Do you think chef-owned fine dining will ever overtake McDonald's? FreelanceSocialist posted:Isn't that still better than BMC pints? I mean, come on. At least they're supporting a local business. Oh, deifnitely. I was responding to the claim that lovely breweries will go out of business, because in my experience that's not always true. Although if I ever go back to the Dodging Duck, I'd order their food and bring my own BMC garbage before ordering their own beer because 
Docjowles fucked around with this message at 04:05 on May 10, 2012 |
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May 10, 2012 04:02
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It takes a competitor with a better product to put them out of business. It takes customer feedback to make improvements.
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May 10, 2012 04:09
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Trying a pale ale from a relatively local brewery called Grayton. It's pretty nice, very tasty with a decent hop balance, although for a pale I would prefer something fruitier. I think they went a little more reiseny than most and it's still nice and refreshing but I guess I just like my PAs the way they are sometimes  Hop Manna from Schmaltz is good too, and I also drank it tonight. Nice hop and malt balance, very drinkable and delicious.
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May 10, 2012 04:12
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FreelanceSocialist posted:It takes a competitor with a better product to put them out of business. It takes customer feedback to make improvements. I just don't think people care. To give another local example (where we have immense competition) a bartender poured me an Odell 5 Barrel pale ale. It was cloudy, sour and undrinkable, obviously the tap lines were full of gunk. I brought it back and asked for a different beer, the bartender drank it and said "tastes like 5 barrel to me!" I bitched some more and eventually he comped me something else but the point was that sometimes even the people serving beer don't understand what it's supposed to taste like. Which of course is why things like Cicerone are so valuable. I also want to clarify that I agree with everything you are saying. I just think the ceiling for people who care about beer, and WANT to care about beer, is low compared to the total population.
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May 10, 2012 04:22
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Docjowles posted:Edit: I should preface this by saying I love beer and don't want to be Debbie Downer. I just don't see the boundless optimism of "soon everyone will have an IPA in her hand!" as realistic. I mostly agree with you, but I think I'm a bit more pessimistic. Even in New York it seems like every small town has their own brewery and 99% of them are absolutely worthless and that's just not something that is going to last for decades to come. At some point the people out there who are not as devoted to craft beer as people who post about it on the internet are going to grow out of this phase and stop buying craft beer because they just lose interest in it. I don't remember who it was, but earlier in the thread someone was posting about how they really didn't think the bubble was going to burst because "who is going to stop drinking craft beer after they start?" (or something similar). That is a pretty narrow minded approach to the average consumer drinking craft beer. For example, I work with a bunch of middle class guys who don't really give a poo poo about beer. They buy borderline craft beer like Saranac and Sam Adams but only when it's on sale. If they lost those brands for whatever reason, they wouldn't put a second thought into it.
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May 10, 2012 05:30
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I think there's a bubble, if only for the fact that there are no fewer than ten upstart breweries in Chicago yet to even open. Chicago is a beer city for sure, but I can't help but think that at only one out of the ten is going to produce anything memorable. edit: It was actually 12: http://www.redeyechicago.com/entertainment/restaurants-bars/redeye-12-chicago-breweries-on-the-brink-20120425,0,4468340.photogallery
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May 10, 2012 06:23
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crazyfish posted:I think there's a bubble, if only for the fact that there are no fewer than ten upstart breweries in Chicago yet to even open. Chicago is a beer city for sure, but I can't help but think that at only one out of the ten is going to produce anything memorable. Yeah, there's definitely a bubble. Craft beer is expensive, and if I was going to try everything out there, I'd be broke and dead from liver failure before I could even scratch the surface. There's just no way the market can sustain all this growth; there aren't enough people out there who can possibly afford to buy all this beer and drink it.
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May 10, 2012 07:21
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Wrong thread.
TenaciousTomato fucked around with this message at 14:36 on May 10, 2012 |
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May 10, 2012 07:30
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mysterious frankie posted:Yeah, there's definitely a bubble. Craft beer is expensive, and if I was going to try everything out there, I'd be broke and dead from liver failure before I could even scratch the surface. There's just no way the market can sustain all this growth; there aren't enough people out there who can possibly afford to buy all this beer and drink it. There's a reason why the good breweries are expanding though.
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May 10, 2012 07:32
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Midorka posted:There's a reason why the good breweries are expanding though. Because they're both good and well enough established that the demand for their product is expanding? I dunno if that's part of the same bubble as the explosion of every guy whose ever absentmindedly doodled a Ed Roth-style hot rod monster dressed like a barista on printer paper in his cubicle and thought "you know; this would make a great basis for a line of Imperial Russian Stouts" mortgaging the house to open a brewery. mysterious frankie fucked around with this message at 14:33 on May 10, 2012 |
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May 10, 2012 10:21
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The bubble bursting will mostly be seen on the retail level. Distributors are having trouble keeping up with all the brands as it is, and more breweries bottling more beers is only going to add to that. The stores will have issues keeping up with all of it. I think what this all means is that you're going to see more love and focus on the brewpub model of business. Here in the Tampa area, there's a small new brewery called 7th Sun. The place is tiny; you walk in and you're arm's length from everything in the brewery. They brew small 3bbl batches one at a time. Everything either doesn't leave the tasting room or only goes to a few select bars here and there (when they have the beer). They barrel age a lot of stuff too and have already had several well-attended small bottle releases. It's the business model I'd recommend for anyone who wants to get into the industry. I can't imagine trying to compete rforwith shelf-space with a completely new untested brand now.
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May 10, 2012 10:47
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mysterious frankie posted:Yeah, there's definitely a bubble. Craft beer is expensive, and if I was going to try everything out there, I'd be broke and dead from liver failure before I could even scratch the surface. There's just no way the market can sustain all this growth; there aren't enough people out there who can possibly afford to buy all this beer and drink it. This. On the retail side, while everyone is declaring the death of the Buds and Millers and the rise of craft breweries, the main places where beer is purchased is still 90% Bud and Miller shelf space. We can talk about relative sales loss and such, but in the end, people will buy what they like and what they can afford. For most people, that's the standards. Some people just like it; Most people can't justify $10 on a sixer. And not to burst anyone's personal bubble here, but the current boom can be classified as a fad. In Chicago, Clark St. Ale House used to be one of the 5 best beer bars in the city. They still serve the same stuff they always did, but I wouldn't put them in the top 20 now. They didn't change; The market did. I can go to random restaurants now and see better selection, but the fact is that that won't last forever. There's going to come a point when people stop wanting to pay $7 for a snifter of something. And that's when those restaurants and bars that are investing in those beers start shifting back to the macros.
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May 10, 2012 13:28
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danbanana posted:There's going to come a point when people stop wanting to pay $7 for a snifter of something. And that's when those restaurants and bars that are investing in those beers start shifting back to the macros. I agree with you for the most part but disagree with this. People are willing to pay $7 for a snifter right now, even when the economy is in the shitter. The craft beer industry is growing despite the fact that we were in a recession and unemployment is high. I really don't see people getting fed up with paying $7 for a snifter any time soon.
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May 10, 2012 14:25
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Corbet posted:I agree with you for the most part but disagree with this. People are willing to pay $7 for a snifter right now, even when the economy is in the shitter. The craft beer industry is growing despite the fact that we were in a recession and unemployment is high. I really don't see people getting fed up with paying $7 for a snifter any time soon. Personal financial considerations aren't my point. It's the "fad" portion of it that will end: right now, the average urbanite with disposable income is growing interested in craft beer. That will die down and bars will come to realize that they can make as much money selling Stella or Heineken as Jolly Pumpkin's latest, and get the macros and standards at a lower cost (meaning, more profit). The supermarket's will figure out that their shelf space is being taken up by brews no one is buying quick enough. The big distributors will realize that the cost to carry stuff from 40 different breweries isn't the most efficient method to make money. The "bubble" isn't a matter of money; it's a matter of large-scale interest. When that interest wanes, we'll see a very quick regression in growth. That said, when (if?) this bubble bursts, the craft industry will still be healthier and more interesting than it was 5 years ago. Which is great: hopefully the truly good breweries will survive, the bad ones taking up space and money from the good ones will go away, and I'll still be able to try new and different things. But there's no way in hell that the current rate of growth continues... danbanana fucked around with this message at 14:46 on May 10, 2012 |
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May 10, 2012 14:43
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I had a pint of Deschutes Twilight Summer Ale last night. It's lightly hopped, light bodied without being watery, and instantly became one of my favorite summer beers. The hops gave a pleasant citrusy twang. As it warmed, I got a lot of tea-like flavors. Since iced tea is generally my summer drink of choice, that made it even more enjoyable and summery. At 5% abv it makes a good palate cleanser between heavier beers as well. Mikkeller Tiger Baby: Open Windows Open Hills was surprisingly resinous, way more hoppy than I expect from Mikkeller. Maybe most of the stuff I get from them is older and this is how things are supposed to taste, I don't know. It was tasty. The highlight of the evening was Crooked Stave Blackberry Petit Sour. 857 bottles total produced, by some crazy dude who cultures some of his own brettanomyces strains. Initial aroma was like a really good, peppery blue cheese; this changed to a more familiar vomit smell as it warmed. Flavor-wise it was a great mix of fruit, sour, and funk. There was a lot more lactic acid than I'd expect from a purely brett beer. According to the brewer, one of his proprietary brett strains throws off lactic acid. I'm not sure if that's the case - pediococcus in the barrels seems more likely - but whatever did it the result was a delicious beer. I got to try a bit of Hoppin' Frog D.O.R.I.S. The Destroyer as well. It's freaking huge and hides its alcohol well, meaning it's well named and I loved it.
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May 10, 2012 14:54
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i'd love to see someone do something like this on BA:Pairing Cheap Beers with Personal Failures
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May 10, 2012 15:03
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danbanana posted:Personal financial considerations aren't my point. It's the "fad" portion of it that will end: right now, the average urbanite with disposable income is growing interested in craft beer. That will die down and bars will come to realize that they can make as much money selling Stella or Heineken as Jolly Pumpkin's latest, and get the macros and standards at a lower cost (meaning, more profit). The supermarket's will figure out that their shelf space is being taken up by brews no one is buying quick enough. The big distributors will realize that the cost to carry stuff from 40 different breweries isn't the most efficient method to make money. The "bubble" isn't a matter of money; it's a matter of large-scale interest. When that interest wanes, we'll see a very quick regression in growth. I think the first time I noticed something amiss was when I was walking by Hella's, notorious north side Greek diner/health hazard and saw a banner flapping on the storefront, proudly proclaiming they now serve craft beers. When even a greasepit like Hella's switches from MGD in the bottles with the flaky gold and black labels, to Dogfish Head, you've officially hit Pog-like levels of oversaturation. I do agree that the fad ending will not hurt the craft industry where it counts, but I think a lot of pie-eyed idealists are gonna be closing up shop and heading back to their day jobs in the near future. Or maybe work for other brewers?
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May 10, 2012 15:27
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Corbet posted:I agree with you for the most part but disagree with this. People are willing to pay $7 for a snifter right now, even when the economy is in the shitter. The craft beer industry is growing despite the fact that we were in a recession and unemployment is high. I really don't see people getting fed up with paying $7 for a snifter any time soon. This exactly. I don't ever see people thinking, "Well, it was a good run while it lasted drinking good beer but it's time to go back to Bud!"
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May 10, 2012 15:46
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mysterious frankie posted:I think the first time I noticed something amiss was when I was walking by Hella's, notorious north side Greek diner/health hazard and saw a banner flapping on the storefront, proudly proclaiming they now serve craft beers. When even a greasepit like Hella's switches from MGD in the bottles with the flaky gold and black labels, to Dogfish Head, you've officially hit Pog-like levels of oversaturation. I do agree that the fad ending will not hurt the craft industry where it counts, but I think a lot of pie-eyed idealists are gonna be closing up shop and heading back to their day jobs in the near future. Or maybe work for other brewers? If you read the homebrewing subreddit, it seems like every week or so someone is posting asking about how to open a small brewery. A couple people have actually done it on scales ranging from almost nothing to nano. This is the sort of stuff that really shows to me how oversaturated it's getting
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May 10, 2012 15:50
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RiggenBlaque posted:If you read the homebrewing subreddit, it seems like every week or so someone is posting asking about how to open a small brewery. A couple people have actually done it on scales ranging from almost nothing to nano. This is the sort of stuff that really shows to me how oversaturated it's getting It's not like it'd be the first time it crashed, too. Craft beer went through a bubble and collapse in the 1990s. From '86 to '95 the craft beer market grew at a rate of up to 75% a year, a didn't grow less than 29% a year. Then in '95, '96, '97, the year-over-year growth went like this: 58%, 26%, 2%. Then it stayed pretty flat until '03. There was definitely a big influx of money into the industry because it was seen as a way to make money (75% a year growth! Woo!), and then the bottom fell out and a lot of businesses were shut down, and a lot of businesses that had expanded with the expectation of continued growth in demand are no longer around, even some important pioneers like Yakima Brewing. I mean, Bert Grant basically invented American IPA, but his business didn't survive. How many John Harvard's brewpubs did there used to be? How many are there now? If I look at pictures from my bottle collection back in '92-'93, I'll see a lot of beers that you can't get anymore because those breweries died. It happens. And it's not as simpler as "the good breweries survive, the bad ones fail." The good *businesses* survive, the ones that make the right decisions, but the skillset for "makes the right business decisions" isn't the same as "makes good beer." Note the failure of Pierre Celis in Texas. Awesome beer, still failed. The aforementioned Yakima Brewing, made some of the best beer in the country, still failed. The list of failed breweries that made good beer that went under during the mid-90s crash is probably long and distinguished. This is why I'm fundamentally okay with little breweries not falling over themselves to take on debt to expand, I'd rather they stick around through a contraction, even if it means that I rarely get their beer and when I do it's expensive. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 16:12 on May 10, 2012 |
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May 10, 2012 16:09
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mysterious frankie posted:...but I think a lot of pie-eyed idealists are gonna be closing up shop and heading back to their day jobs in the near future. Yup. This is how you know it's a bubble: when people are jumping into the market because it's currently profitable. Helllloooooooo, housing market! Midorka posted:I don't ever see people thinking, "Well, it was a good run while it lasted drinking good beer but it's time to go back to Bud!" Except you're thinking like someone who has already deeply stepped into this hobby. There's not enough of you or me to support the hundreds of new breweries popping up or the bars that suddenly discovered DFH. In the long-term, there's simply not enough people who will continue to care (and continue to pay the money) to support all of that, or even some already established breweries/bars. The boom the industry is seeing isn't all BA and RateBeer geeks; it's the middle-upper class urbanite who had a 60 Minute at a bar instead of his/her usual Heineken and liked it so he/she is trying some new things. That guy/woman isn't likely a long-term customer, especially not for, say, Jolly Pumpkin. Example: at a liquor store last week, while I seemingly browsed intently for something new/interesting/rare, I had a gentleman ask if I had any recommendation. I asked what he liked (hoppy? stouts?) and he showed me Finch's Pale Ale and said he had it recently and really liked it. So I led him to Founder's Centennial and said that he'd probably like this. So he bought it and I had the good feeling of possibly turning on a new customer to a great brewery... except in 2 years, I doubt that guy is going to be buying KBS or probably anything from them. It's like college, man: Dude is just experimenting!
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May 10, 2012 16:20
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Oh my, they have (probably sold out by now, so had) Three Floyds' Zombie Dust on tap at Mikkellers bar in Copenhagen today. That beer is amazingly balanced - it wasn't a huge taste experience, but for some reason it just really hit a nerve with me. I decided to go to CBC tomorrow, but I haven't really kept up with the craft beer scene in the past 6 months, so do you guys have some advice / specific beers to keep an eye out for? The list of breweries is: quote:Amager Bryghus e: I'll keep an eye out for those, thanks! Aumuller fucked around with this message at 17:24 on May 10, 2012 |
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May 10, 2012 16:32
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danbanana posted:Except you're thinking like someone who has already deeply stepped into this hobby. There's not enough of you or me to support the hundreds of new breweries popping up or the bars that suddenly discovered DFH. In the long-term, there's simply not enough people who will continue to care (and continue to pay the money) to support all of that, or even some already established breweries/bars. The boom the industry is seeing isn't all BA and RateBeer geeks; it's the middle-upper class urbanite who had a 60 Minute at a bar instead of his/her usual Heineken and liked it so he/she is trying some new things. That guy/woman isn't likely a long-term customer, especially not for, say, Jolly Pumpkin. It might be helpful to view the craft beer industry in the US like the wine industry in the US a few decades ago. California wines were a worldwide joke; mass-produced, crappy jug wines and sugared "white zinfandel" lowered the bar (and Americans' palates) to the point that nothing from the US was expected to be any good at all. Then something changed. Part of that change was with those big producers, and part of it was from other demographics starting to make wine in CA. More care was taken, better wines resulted. American wines started winning awards, even beating French wines in their own contests, and the market exploded. People realized good wine could come from the US (and other places), and tons of new wineries opened up. Many of them sucked; many of those closed. Others were really good, and some of those survived. Wine production in the US is a mature enough industry now that winemakers are producing many different styles with many kinds of grape. The market is established, and while some (even most) people still drink lovely wine, there are enough people who appreciate good wine to support a plethora of wineries. Yes, we're seeing a bit of a brewery boom right now. That's likely to settle down. I don't think beer in the US will fall back to the point that all we have to drink is pissy yellow water - the wine industry still supports a lot of quality wineries, and the beer industry is likely to do the same. Innovation may slow down and we may see less experimentation, but that was the main thing driving this boom. It won't go away entirely. Good beer is likely here to stay. It won't completely take over the market, but I'm fairly sure it will always be available. Individual breweries will come and go; good taste won't. Good taste is contagious. e: Aumuller posted:I decided to go to CBC tomorrow, but I haven't really kept up with the craft beer scene in the past 6 months, so do you guys have some advice / specific beers to keep an eye out for? The list of breweries is: Cigar City - especially their Marshall Zhukov Stout, but everything they make seems to be magical. Dieu de Ciel - excellent overall. Peche Mortel is one of my favorite coffee stouts. Solstice d'Hiver is a lot like Sammichlaus without being quite so cloying. Jolly Pumpkin - some of the best sour beers around Lost Abbey - more great sours. If they have Double Red Poppy, which seems to be festival-only, seek it out. Framboise de Amorosa is also great; 2012 (non-Double)Red Poppy you can probably skip. Three Floyds, if only because I can't get it in the US and you should taunt me with it. bartolimu fucked around with this message at 16:41 on May 10, 2012 |
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May 10, 2012 16:36
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Make sure to try Stillwater's beers. Limited distribution and every beer he's done has been outstanding.
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May 10, 2012 16:50
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I think a lot of people are forgetting that multiple small breweries/brewpubs in towns was the norm for a very long time before prohibition and the expansion of the big corporate breweries following the 21st amendment. Especially throughout most of Europe. We're simply moving back to that, and a lot of people are used to buying bottled or canned beer from breweries hundreds (or even thousands) of miles away and drinking it at home. A lot of books on the subject highlight the "crash" of draft beer, relative to canned/bottled in the US, in terms of market-share. We're finally pushing in the other direction. I for one welcome lovely brewpubs that go under. Why should they be any different than straight-up restaurants? If your beer sucks, either learn and improve or close up shop. What comes from all this? More and more people with brewing experience for the good places to draw from and more and more people get the chance to make the conscious choice to drink local beer over national brands and keep their money in the local economy. Which is huge. Even Stone and DFH didn't just hit the ground running. They had some rough spots. Some lovely beers. You have to be smart, you have to be motivated, and above all, you have to want to create a quality product that you are proud to serve. It's a business just like any other. And it isn't a bubble, I don't think. A bubble is what happens when a product or a service has greatly inflated value - at odds with the changes in cost of production or intrinsic value to the buyer. Sure, there are a few beers that are monstrously overpriced, given their quality and what it cost to make them, but that isn't a bubble. Those are isolated. If you think $10 or $14 6/pk of certain beers is expensive, maybe look in to the ingredients bill and the brewing process before you judge it as "overpriced". And do some research into the three-tier system, while you're at it - because I just had to sign a fuel surcharge check for a twenty case invoice for beer. And you know what? That affects the price that you pay. But overall? There isn't a price bubble at the retail side, the side I see, at least. There are killer beers on the shelf, right now, that are $4-$7 per bomber. There are pints at the pizza place down the street of craft beer for $4. Sure, I can order a 10oz pour of a cask beer for $11 if I want, but that isn't the norm. And just because there are beers like that available, and people want to buy them, doesn't mean something is wrong with our market. Maybe I'm jaded. FreelanceSocialist fucked around with this message at 17:14 on May 10, 2012 |
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May 10, 2012 17:10
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FreelanceSocialist posted:lots of words I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to thank you for this post, I agree 100%.
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May 10, 2012 17:24
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air- posted:every beer he's done has been outstanding. This is a pretty serious overstatement. He frequently overspices and seasons his beers, leading to overpowering herbal flavors that, IMO, distract from the overall brew. I find his simpler beers like Stateside Saison and Cellar Door (very mildly herbed up) fantastic, though.
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May 10, 2012 17:32
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air- posted:Make sure to try Stillwater's beers. Limited distribution and every beer he's done has been outstanding. I see that Apollo is at our Whole Foods... you better be right about it :P I've disliked every Sixpoint beer I've had, even Resin I wasnt a huge fan of.
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May 10, 2012 17:36
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FreelanceSocialist posted:
I wish Gordon Biersch would close up shop. The only redeeming things about that place are the garlic fries.
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May 10, 2012 17:37
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Docjowles posted:Edit: I should preface this by saying I love beer and don't want to be Debbie Downer. I just don't see the boundless optimism of "soon everyone will have an IPA in her hand!" as realistic. As for distilleries, we have exactly one distillery in town: Ballast Point.
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May 10, 2012 17:45
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ShaneB posted:This is a pretty serious overstatement. He frequently overspices and seasons his beers, leading to overpowering herbal flavors that, IMO, distract from the overall brew. I find his simpler beers like Stateside Saison and Cellar Door (very mildly herbed up) fantastic, though. i agree- he has a few excellent beers, a few good beers, and then a bunch that all taste the same.
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May 10, 2012 17:53
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FreelanceSocialist posted:And it isn't a bubble, I don't think. A bubble is what happens when a product or a service has greatly inflated value - at odds with the changes in cost of production or intrinsic value to the buyer. Sure, there are a few beers that are monstrously overpriced, given their quality and what it cost to make them, but that isn't a bubble. Those are isolated. If you think $10 or $14 6/pk of certain beers is expensive, maybe look in to the ingredients bill and the brewing process before you judge it as "overpriced". And do some research into the three-tier system, while you're at it - because I just had to sign a fuel surcharge check for a twenty case invoice for beer. And you know what? That affects the price that you pay. But overall? There isn't a price bubble at the retail side, the side I see, at least. There are killer beers on the shelf, right now, that are $4-$7 per bomber. There are pints at the pizza place down the street of craft beer for $4. Sure, I can order a 10oz pour of a cask beer for $11 if I want, but that isn't the norm. And just because there are beers like that available, and people want to buy them, doesn't mean something is wrong with our market. When I say bubble, I mean over-exposure or over-growth, not over-pricing. We've had this discussion many times in these threads and I'm firmly on the side of understanding why some beers are $15+ per bomber. And that reason isn't retail or brewery gouging (though I see it happen a lot on the retail side).
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May 10, 2012 18:08
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Midorka posted:I don't ever see people thinking, "Well, it was a good run while it lasted drinking good beer but it's time to go back to Bud!" Maybe not to that extent but I can see the average craft beer guy saying I love Hop Devil let me buy all of it from here on out. We, as craft beer goons/nerds/geeks/enthusiasts, are a unique niche of the beer drinking population. Most of the time people settle on something they like and aren't really interested in trying every new beer they see
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May 10, 2012 18:09
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I can see that point about some of Stillwater's beers being overspiced/herbed. I've been on a fernet branca kick lately and that's likely why I don't have a problem with something very herbal like the flavors you'd get in Debutante. Even if a good number of his beers "taste the same", I think it's interesting to pick out the little nuances among those beers, especially if the spice lingers in the background. I guess it's more fair to say that I haven't disliked anything I've tried.
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May 10, 2012 18:30
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Docjowles posted:I just don't think people care. To give another local example (where we have immense competition) a bartender poured me an Odell 5 Barrel pale ale. It was cloudy, sour and undrinkable, obviously the tap lines were full of gunk. I brought it back and asked for a different beer, the bartender drank it and said "tastes like 5 barrel to me!" I bitched some more and eventually he comped me something else but the point was that sometimes even the people serving beer don't understand what it's supposed to taste like. Which of course is why things like Cicerone are so valuable. This annoys me so much when it happens. I ordered a Caldera IPA recently and it tasted like it was poured through a latex glove. I brought it back to the bar telling the waitress that something was wrong, as it tasted like latex. She replied, "You can just admit you don't like the beer".
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May 10, 2012 18:55
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I think the Craft Beer industry will eventually plateau and weed out some of the less talented breweries, but for the most part people will still want craft beer and will still pay for it. Breweries already heavily target their local buyers, so if anything distribution and breweries depending on distrib sales might take the brunt of it. FreelanceSocialist is right: Craft beer now is more associated with neighborhoods, local markets, and organic foods. It was like this before, and hopefully it will stay that way.
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May 10, 2012 19:27
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