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Neato. I'll probably deal with the optional bosses in an eventual third playthrough someday though, because i really don't feel like dealing with any more of Atlus' bullshit for a while. 
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May 14, 2012 02:32
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TK-31 posted:How did they 'defang' the Chaos ending? I can't really think of any way to make it 'better' that doesn't ruin the entire point of the route in the first place. They didn't defang the Chaos ending. in fact they Let you experience God in his evil dickish self again If they made a DeSu 2 overclocked, there needs to a counterpart to the anguished one who wants Polaris to "spare" humanity at the cost of having their lives completely dictated according to Polaris' plans. No more genocide but now they work in the name of Polaris.
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May 14, 2012 20:39
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gyrobot posted:They didn't defang the Chaos ending. in fact they Let you experience God in his evil dickish self again He, at that point a bit of divine anger isn't exactly unfair: Not only mankind did blow off the trial the angels created, but they support the guy who want to kill him. So yeah, YHVH being angry is understandable, moreso than his blatanty evil incarnation from previous SMT
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May 14, 2012 22:49
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Jesus Christ, i can't believe this. I'm on a fricking NG+, overlevelled as gently caress, and Yamato still wrecked me. Holy poo poo. Although i guess it's kinda cute that he had a yandere side. e: Also, is there high-res artwork for party members' battle sprites somewhere? They're usually different from any of the official art i've seen. Freak Futanari fucked around with this message at 00:00 on May 15, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 23:45
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Technique posted:e: Also, is there high-res artwork for party members' battle sprites somewhere? They're usually different from any of the official art i've seen.
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May 15, 2012 01:21
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Dehry posted:Doesn't look like it. I found the artbook for DS1, but that only has the battle sprites in the corner of character pages. Hm, that's a shame. Most of the battle sprites are usually just scaled-down artwork, right? Bummer. I always love checking out official artwork. Also, i'm on the final day again. Is it worth reloading my Friday save to follow Angy's route once i beat it, or is it similar enough to the other routes that i can just YouTube it and save time? Also, you have to choose to restore the world, not to kill Polaris, if you want the "best" ending, right? Not to mention that i YouTubed Clicky's ending out of idle curiousity, and man, gently caress Atlus. They go out of their way to only highlight the bad aspects of Yamato's ending, and then turn around and sugarcoat Ronny's. Way to take sides.  Man, i should really buy DeSu1 after this...
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May 15, 2012 02:03
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Technique posted:
Humanity losing all freewill is good? Yous should get DS1 though. It'll be more frustrating though.
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May 15, 2012 02:16
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Pierce posted:Humanity losing all freewill is good? They totally gloss over that by going OH EVERYONE IS NICE NOW though. It's creepy! How does DS compare to DS2 in terms of characters and plot? I've heard that it's a bit bleaker, which is great, and it seems to have a really good soundtrack. But characters tend to make or break a game for me.
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May 15, 2012 02:27
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The characters are pretty hit or miss. You get some nice characters like Atsuro, Kaido and Gin. But then you have....Midori, who prolly wins the award for the most annoying SMT character in recent memory. (Although it's somewhat intentional) Overall I found the cast to be better than DS2 but I'm a bit of a DS1 fanboy so I'll admit I'm quite biased. I enjoyed the plot much much more than DS2s as well. But unless you get overclocked some of the endings while wrapping things up sort of end up leaving you wanting more, or feeling like there should have been a more elegant epilogue.
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May 15, 2012 02:31
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Pierce posted:Humanity losing all freewill is good? That's ridiculous. Humanity doesn't lose all free will in Ronaldo's route. They simply gain the urge to work together and lose the urge to trample over others for their own gain, just like you and me don't get the urge to jump off a cliff -- is that mother nature being tyranical towards us? Both current humans and Ronaldo humans have their own set of urges and restraints, so the question that must be asked is: which is better? Humanity that works together for the good of all, or humanity that feels the urge to step all over others?
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May 15, 2012 02:47
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Technique posted:They totally gloss over that by going OH EVERYONE IS NICE NOW though. It's creepy! The plot is way better. It illustrates the gravity of the situation much better. Everyone in the game seems to "get" that they're in big trouble, unlike in DS2 where it's easy to forget about the widespread destruction because the characters stop talking about it after the first couple of days. DS1 is a bit less I'd say the characters are less likeable. They really aren't meant to be, at least not in the same way that the characters in DS2 are. There's no FATE system, so they tend to come in smaller doses anyway. TurnipFritter fucked around with this message at 03:00 on May 15, 2012 |
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May 15, 2012 02:58
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I liked DeSu2, but DeSu1 is probably one of my favorite SMT games (after Nocturne, Persona 4 and MAYBE persona 2) no idea why! I mean the characters definitely aren't as good (though I still really like Gin, he aint Jungo) but the plot is way way better. Also, cool thing about DeSu2, the screen when you load a game changes when you beat an ending; one for each city, and it also adds the big dipper if you go for Saiduq's ending.
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May 15, 2012 03:04
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Cityinthesea posted:Also, cool thing about DeSu2, the screen when you load a game changes when you beat an ending; one for each city, and it also adds the big dipper if you go for Saiduq's ending. That happens in DS:Overclocked as well, although it fills in the side characters that were important for that mission.
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May 15, 2012 03:33
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DS 1 was more focused on the whole "Let's Survive!" aspect. The death predictions in 1 are ever-present and people don't stop worrying about them for long, furthermore they're harder to thwart. Also in my opinion the Laplace Mail was much more menacing and creepier than Nicaea, overall I think that DS 2 took the action flick approach to making a sequel of what was a more personal tale of survival.
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May 15, 2012 04:20
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Heavy neutrino posted:That's ridiculous. Humanity doesn't lose all free will in Ronaldo's route. They simply gain the urge to work together and lose the urge to trample over others for their own gain, just like you and me don't get the urge to jump off a cliff -- is that mother nature being tyranical towards us? Both current humans and Ronaldo humans have their own set of urges and restraints, so the question that must be asked is: which is better? Humanity that works together for the good of all, or humanity that feels the urge to step all over others? Absolutely not it's a fundamental change in human nature. I'm not arguing for Yamato's ending as it is the same. Daichi or Saiduq's are preferable to the BF Skinner type utopia vs Yamato's meritocracy. So which is better? Neither as they both destroyed the concept of self as we currently know it. Third option as I think the writers intended.
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May 15, 2012 11:21
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Pierce posted:Absolutely not it's a fundamental change in human nature. I'm not arguing for Yamato's ending as it is the same. Daichi or Saiduq's are preferable to the BF Skinner type utopia vs Yamato's meritocracy. So which is better? Neither as they both destroyed the concept of self as we currently know it. Third option as I think the writers intended. You're right in your analysis that it's a fundamental change in human nature, but you don't bother with the critical point: explaining why such a thing is actually bad. Instead you assume that it is and carry on with this flawed premise.
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May 15, 2012 12:30
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Heavy neutrino posted:You're right in your analysis that it's a fundamental change in human nature, but you don't bother with the critical point: explaining why such a thing is actually bad. Instead you assume that it is and carry on with this flawed premise. So destruction of self as we know it is good?
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May 15, 2012 13:14
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Heavy neutrino posted:You're right in your analysis that it's a fundamental change in human nature, but you don't bother with the critical point: explaining why such a thing is actually bad. Instead you assume that it is and carry on with this flawed premise. Because generally some people value freedom above even happiness. People being altered to be good to one another through something else making them be so, even in the face of everyone being happy and generally cheerful about it, is still the loss of freedom. It's certainly not the worst possible loss of freedom, but neither is it at all something I'd consider anything less then a horrifying ending. You can make arguments about nature vs nurture and how much free will exists, but an all-controlling deity altering the minds of everyone on the planet to act in a certain way goes way beyond what I'm willing to consider the normal state of free will. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 13:53 on May 15, 2012 |
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May 15, 2012 13:49
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ImpAtom posted:Because generally some people value freedom above even happiness. People being altered to be good to one another through something else making them be so, even in the face of everyone being happy and generally cheerful about it, is still the loss of freedom. It's certainly not the worst possible loss of freedom, but neither is it at all something I'd consider anything less then a horrifying ending. To add to thisbefore the option of divine intervention Ronaldo was willing to kill anyone who opposed him. This is definitely not what I would consider an acceptable path.
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May 15, 2012 13:59
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Pierce posted:To add to thisbefore the option of divine intervention Ronaldo was willing to kill anyone who opposed him. This is definitely not what I would consider an acceptable path. It always struck me as hilarious how Ronaldo is so mad at Yamato for killing people, then he decides to bumble right into JPs to straight up murder Makoto just to make it easier for him later on. He really is a hypocrite through and through. Not to mention that his ending is basically Shijima, except that you take away all the things that made Shijima attractive. Anyway, for the first time in months Amazon ships DS1 to Norway with a non-zany shipping cost, so i guess it's meant to be.  Although it probably won't be cheap anyway, since i have a feeling i'll end up buying the soundtrack too. And then i'll have to buy the DS2 OST as well, since i'm a collector. 
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May 15, 2012 14:26
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ImpAtom posted:You can make arguments about nature vs nurture and how much free will exists, but an all-controlling deity altering the minds of everyone on the planet to act in a certain way goes way beyond what I'm willing to consider the normal state of free will. On the other hand, it's implied that Polaris and his predecessors have been messing around with human nature throughout the entirety of human history. So it seems like the logical conclusion of your line of reasoning is to take AO's path and undo all of Polaris's work, rather than take Daichi's path and lock in the result of that work at some particular point.
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May 15, 2012 14:30
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Thuryl posted:On the other hand, it's implied that Polaris and his predecessors have been messing around with human nature throughout the entirety of human history. So it seems like the logical conclusion of your line of reasoning is to take AO's path and undo all of Polaris's work, rather than take Daichi's path and lock in the result of that work at some particular point. Yes, I completely agree. That's why I took AO's path my first time through. Daichi's ending is happy on a personal level for the characters but leaves Polaris in charge of the world and that guy's a dick who holds control over human history. To DS2's credit, I feel like each ending has strengths and weaknesses, which is nice. It does kind of annoy me that ti has a "True" ending though because of that because the "True" ending feels the same as the others but you get more points for it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:15 on May 15, 2012 |
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May 15, 2012 16:12
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They really did go out of their way to make the Triumphant ending the "good" one. I don't really mind though, they put enough effort into it to make it pretty satisfying.
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May 16, 2012 00:02
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Alright, finally throwing down for Persona 4. Came up in my queue at last. I put in 100+ hours into P3, and I've read the wiki entry, so I'm not too concerned overall. I already know from P3 that playing to get 100% S. Links right off the bat is foolhardy anyway, at least. What I'd just like to check before going in all the way was whether there were any really, really must-have Links. Like Emperor in P3, who I just barely managed to max out on like the last day and would've been loving pissed if I hadn't (because without that you don't get Odin, and without Odin I don't see how I would have been able to open up Monad). Things seem looser about this sort of thing in P4, but no one seemed to mention the Emperor thing when I asked about P3 and I don't want to be blindsided again.
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May 16, 2012 04:17
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Nate RFB posted:Alright, finally throwing down for Persona 4. Came up in my queue at last. I put in 100+ hours into P3, and I've read the wiki entry, so I'm not too concerned overall. I already know from P3 that playing to get 100% S. Links right off the bat is foolhardy anyway, at least. As far as must-have links are concerned, I'd say your primary party (that is, the ones you use) and the Hermit. There are probably some others I'm not remembering.
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May 16, 2012 04:19
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I just want to make sure there's not another situation where I need a very, very specific skill only found on one persona, who can only be obtained through a max link, and that one skill is one of the only ways to open the way to an incredibly important location like Monad.
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May 16, 2012 04:26
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Story-wise, Justice and Hierophant. P.S. There are ways of beating the reaper in P3 that do not involve cheezing him with that skill.
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May 16, 2012 04:27
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Nate RFB posted:I just want to make sure there's not another situation where I need a very, very specific skill only found on one persona, who can only be obtained through a max link, and that one skill is one of the only ways to open the way to an incredibly important location like Monad. You will not need anything specific like this.
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May 16, 2012 04:39
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King of Solomon posted:As far as must-have links are concerned, I'd say your primary party (that is, the ones you use) and the Hermit. There are probably some others I'm not remembering. Honestly on my first playthrough of P4, I did it *all* wrong and the only thing I was regretful about was not upgrading some of my party mate's s-links to the max. You miss out on some specific gameplay mechanics and it was simply because I had made some assumptions from Persona 3 (being vague intentionally here).
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May 16, 2012 04:55
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OddObserver posted:Story-wise, Justice and Hierophant. Heirophant is good mechanicswise too, since it gets you Kohryu, which is the point at which you can set cruise control and coast the rest of the game.
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May 16, 2012 04:56
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Nate RFB posted:What I'd just like to check before going in all the way was whether there were any really, really must-have Links. Like Emperor in P3, who I just barely managed to max out on like the last day and would've been loving pissed if I hadn't (because without that you don't get Odin, and without Odin I don't see how I would have been able to open up Monad). Things seem looser about this sort of thing in P4, but no one seemed to mention the Emperor thing when I asked about P3 and I don't want to be blindsided again. The trick to opening Monad without Odin is to keep trying. I actually maxed the Emperor link on my first playthrough, but I was too lazy to fuse an Odin and would have felt like a cheater, so I just kept trying and managed it pretty easily. The Reaper really isn't a big deal. (And I opened Monad so I could level up and fuse better Personas for the final boss, so it's not like I was level 80 or anything.) As for your actual question, some quests have deadlines (which the game doesn't tell you about, unlike Persona 3), so you might want to look into that if you're like me and want to do all the quests. Also if you're the kind of person who wants to do all the quests, you'll probably want to max all the party member Social Links because there's a more significant benefit than a massive fusion EXP boost and the ability to fuse a rad Persona. Oh, and whatever you do, don't save your clear data over your main save. Persona 4 has multiple endings, and a guy was in here not long ago who got the worst ending (missing out on over a month of gameplay), and he saved over his only save with clear data. Don't make his mistake. In fact, keep multiple saves while you play, it's just a good idea.
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May 16, 2012 05:25
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Yoshitsune's Heat Riser + Eight Ship Hop pretty much trivializes P4 once you get him, especially the final boss.
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May 16, 2012 05:27
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DarkHamsterlord posted:Oh, and whatever you do, don't save your clear data over your main save. Persona 4 has multiple endings, and a guy was in here not long ago who got the worst ending (missing out on over a month of gameplay), and he saved over his only save with clear data. Don't make his mistake. In fact, keep multiple saves while you play, it's just a good idea. THIS times a thousand. The bullshit isn't really with the skills to defeat bosses (though I can't speak for the True Ending path, as I am only getting to it this playthrough) it's with how the endings are obtained. Standard RPG sense applies with Persona 4, you'll want to make multiple saves that you alternate through. There are three forks in the late game which determine what ending you'll get so you'll want to make saves on December 3rd and December 5th. because on those days you can pick the wrong options and screw yourself out of the Good and True Endings. The last day to be able to go and defeat the final boss for the Good Ending is December 24th. even though the game implies you have longer. Though if you want an event on Christmas you should beat the boss by December 22nd The very last day you have to play is March 20th, which occurs after a time jump. If you go straight home without looking around, you miss out on the True ending. The game wants you to look around, examine stuff, and figure out what to do. The endings can be a bunch of BS and there's no shame in looking up a guide if you're stuck. The advice in this thread to up the Hermit link as much as you can is very good. It will make dungeons CONSIDERABLY easier. Prioritizing Justice and Heirophant is good advice as well because they close somewhat earlier than the other links. That's what I can think of to prevent BS that can blindside you. Prioritizing your party's social links is also a good strategy, as they can unlock really helpful battle abilities and a max rank means that their Personas upgrade to a form that often has no weaknesses. This playthrough, I've been prioritizing Lovers, and the abilities from that link are VERY helpful.
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May 16, 2012 06:04
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Is it ever revealed what the deal is with Orpheus at the beginning of Persona 3? Or is that just an endgame persona to show that the protagonist really powerful?
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May 16, 2012 06:06
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Cbouncerrun posted:Is it ever revealed what the deal is with Orpheus at the beginning of Persona 3? Or is that just an endgame persona to show that the protagonist really powerful? Yes. It is revealed what happened there. The choice of Persona is pretty important to the plot.
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May 16, 2012 06:08
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In Devil Survivor 2, does power charge affect just physical attacks or magic attacks ?
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May 16, 2012 06:33
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Any reasons you shouldn't sell the default equipment in P3 as soon as you get better stuff?
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May 16, 2012 06:35
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Cbouncerrun posted:Any reasons you shouldn't sell the default equipment in P3 as soon as you get better stuff? Sell whatever you don't need. A lot of accessories are worth holding onto, though, and you might want to keep the weapons that have an Element attached to them. Other than that, the best weapons in the game come from fusing and the best armor and shoes come from Messiah.
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May 16, 2012 06:40
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Nah I just meant I can't use the default gear for anything right? I've played enough RPGs to know they're sometimes used as materials for endgame gear.
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May 16, 2012 06:48
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Catalina posted:The endings can be a bunch of BS and there's no shame in looking up a guide if you're stuck. Yeah, here's a spoiler-free guide I used on how to dodge the bad ending/get the true ending. Step 1 starts in early December.
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May 16, 2012 06:51
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