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Davin Valkri posted:Deis "Pinkhair" Yoma If you're willing to change the backstory, you can get much more effective. Drop the cyberparts entirely and get a Supathyroid Gland (you need restricted gear for this but it's worth it) and Muscle Toner 2/Muscle Augmentation 2. Also, you need at least one extra initiative pass if you ever want to be more than worthless in a combat. Wired Reflexes is the old standby, or Synaptic Booster if you want to spend more money but have more essence. If you want to go cheaper, I suggest a drug habit - Cram or Jazz are what you want there. For other useful ware, look at Encaphalon and/or PuSHeD to increase your hacking ability, or cerebral booster to improve logic for hardware/software/misc. logic purposes (since logic has no effect on hacking). For face stuff, you'll want one or more of Enhanced Pheremone Receptors, Vocal Range Enhancer, and Tailored Pheremones. As far as actual rules issues, program effectiveness is limited by the system/response for your commlink/OS, so you'll want to customize those to 5 or 6. In addition, you'll want your hacking programs (stealth/spoof/exploit at the minimum) to be as high as you can get. There's no real point to the sword unless it's really a part of your character - you will do crap damage thanks to your low strength, assuming you even hit with it. 6 dice is not enough for a melee effective character. If you really want a melee weapon, you'd be better served by a stun baton, since it doesn't rely on strength for damage (compare 4 Physical/-1 AP for your katan vs 7 electrical (meaning a chance to knock them out)/half AP) . Similar for shooting - 4 dice might as well not exist for anything other than shooting someone in the back who can't see you. 2 body and 3 reaction just compounds the problem. You don't have to be capable in combat, but as it is you've spent just enough points to think you might be able to handle combat and get yourself killed. Either get your skills up to a decent level, or plan on staying out of combat entirely (which for a hacker is often doable, since you can usually do your stuff from inside the group's van). Thanks to how medkits work (the rating substitutes for the skill if you don't have First Aid, and a rating 6 medkit is quite cheap) you can probably drop that as well. Piell fucked around with this message at 14:27 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 14:15
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Thanks. The only character I've drawn up myself (as opposed to communicating the concept to a much more experienced player and asking him to put down the mechanics) is a Deadlands guy, and I'm given to understand that that's a simpler system. I'll see about making a v2, then. E: actually, the backstory can stay pretty close to the same. All that needs be done is trade out the full-body cyberparts replacement for massive internal damage. Same expensive replacements, same motivation. Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 18:51 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 18:28
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This is actually kind of cool because I'm about to make a technomancer face and I want to add a bunch of ware. However, I don't want to spend more than one Essence worth. Aside from pheromones and a sim sense booster, which ware works best for a faceomancer?
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May 15, 2012 01:46
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I don't think the simsense booster actually works with technomancers. I could be wrong, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense since it's supposed to boost the response times between the brain and the commlink (that you're not using), plus there's that technomancer immersion deal that you're supposed to use to boost your matrix IPs.
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May 15, 2012 02:07
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Swags posted:This is actually kind of cool because I'm about to make a technomancer face and I want to add a bunch of ware. However, I don't want to spend more than one Essence worth. Aside from pheromones and a sim sense booster, which ware works best for a faceomancer? For one essence worth for a faceomancer, I'd do Muscle Toner 2, Enhanced Pheremone Receptors 3, Cerebral Booster 2, and PuSHeD. If you plan on avoiding combat entirely, you could drop the Muscle Toner and get a Vocal Range Enhancer, Tailored Pheremones 1, and some 0.1 bioware or 0.2 cyberware. In either case, you'll want to pick up a drug habit for more IP. Cram lasts all day but knocks you out at the end of it (or at least, a good amount of stun damage), while Jazz is more short term but only has a small penalty for 10 minutes after it wears off.
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May 15, 2012 02:14
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Does overuse of drugs not lower your essence anymore?
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May 15, 2012 03:55
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pw pw pw posted:Does overuse of drugs not lower your essence anymore? It does, but only at the burnout stage. As long as you can stay away from that far, you're fine.
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May 15, 2012 04:06
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You'd have to do a LOT of drugs. And fail a lot of checks. Another reason to have a robust edge!
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May 15, 2012 04:14
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The 3E and earlier drug addiction rules were hilariously harsh. Don't smoke a weed or you'll be dead in two years, tops.
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May 15, 2012 06:44
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To be fair, they have some ludicrously dank weed in the 2060s
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May 15, 2012 07:52
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pw pw pw posted:To be fair, they have some ludicrously dank weed in the 2060s I sprung a new gem on my players last night. Working for a rastafarian sect in The Terminal, the wirehead wheelman was given a splash bomb to use for distraction, only told that it was less-lethal and that he probably would want to stay clear of the 10-meter blast radius. Enter the ganja bomb: For bonus hilarity he missed the Humanis rally he wanted to disrupt and hit the counter-protestors and police officers with a DMSO/cannabinoid bland potent enough to cause stun damage, vomiting and getting nicely toasted!
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May 15, 2012 09:45
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I do miss the essance loss on serious wounds part of the rules though, its much harder to burn out a mage now.
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May 15, 2012 12:42
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Tias posted:Enter the ganja bomb: For bonus hilarity he missed the Humanis rally he wanted to disrupt and hit the counter-protestors and police officers with a DMSO/cannabinoid bland potent enough to cause stun damage, vomiting and getting nicely toasted! Nicer than a K-10 bomb, I suppose.
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May 15, 2012 20:23
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Mystic Mongol posted:Nicer than a K-10 bomb, I suppose. Oh definitely. Last they checked, the victims did look rather serenely grilled.
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May 15, 2012 21:01
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So, I was making the technomancer face I mentioned above, and here's what I've got so far. I'm getting pretty low on points, so I was going to come here and ask for a bit of help. DM allows 35 points of + qualities and 50 points of - qualities. pre:Dryad (45)
Bod 3
Agi 2
Rea 2
Str 1
Cha 8
Int 3
Log 5
Wil 4 (attributes, 185)
Edge 3
Resonance 6 (5) (secondary attributes, 85)
Positive qualities:
Technomancer
First Impressions
Erased 2
Codeslinger: Threading
Paragon: Flow
Glamour (free) positive qualities 35
Negative qualities:
Media Junkie: Severe
Signature
Poor Self Control: Compulsive
Wanted (negative qualities -50)
Complex Forms:
Analyze 6,
Command 6,
Stealth 6,
Spoof 6,
Disarm 6,
Exploit 6
Gear so far:
Tailored Pheremons
Vocal Range Enhancer
Enhanced Pheremone Receptors 3
(total, .8 essence, about 75k, or 14 BP)
Totals:
45 Metatype
185 Attribute
85 secondary attribute
-15 Qualities
36 Complex forms
14 Gear so far
350.I'll probably be buying an Alpha level simsense booster and simsense accelerator as soon as we start playing and get enough money. 5IPs in the Matrix sounds pretty nice.
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May 16, 2012 08:59
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Swags posted:So, I was making the technomancer face I mentioned above, and here's what I've got so far. I'm getting pretty low on points, so I was going to come here and ask for a bit of help. I've never actually bothered to learn how technomancers work, so I can't say anything on that end. On the other hand, there are a couple things I noticed. First, you have a strength dumpstat. That's fine, except for the part where it is 1. Dumpstats of 1 are bad, because that means you're going to automatically fail any skill linked to that stat unless you put points in it (or you spend edge). That means your character is not going to ever be able to climb or swim, at all, even the slightest bit. You are a console RPG character that could drown in a puddle and are blocked by knee high walls. Secondly, you will die in combat. You have comparable stats to a rating 0 totally untrained wageslave. You're going to have to be very careful to never ever get in any physical conflict of any sort because you will lose every time with 2 reaction, 3 body, and only 1 IP.
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May 16, 2012 09:47
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Swags posted:I'll probably be buying an Alpha level simsense booster and simsense accelerator as soon as we start playing and get enough money. 5IPs in the Matrix sounds pretty nice. Pretty sure this won't work, since you're hacking the matrix with your brain instead of a commlink. Take a look at submersion, there's two echos - Overclocking and Advanced Overclocking, the latter is found in Unwired - that do the same thing. Same mechanical benefit, no hardware to lug around. Also think about the Shield complex form from Unwired, as it adds its rating to your Matrix defense, and the more dice you have between the Matrix and your squishy brainmeat the better. Further Edit: Technomancers, in my limited experience, behave a lot like adepts. Monetary rewards don't always help the way they do for your mundane counterparts, you will always (always ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS) be starving for karma, and as a reward there will be things you can do that your mundane equivalent simply can't. The painful part is getting to the point where you have those fancy tricks. 30 Second Artbomb fucked around with this message at 10:45 on May 16, 2012 |
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May 16, 2012 10:32
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Swags posted:Dryad (45) Also your reaction is kinda low so don't expect to ever be able to avoid getting hit and you're pretty much always going to go last in combat. Not a good combination unless you can avoid it altogether. I like your social dice though.
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May 16, 2012 11:16
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Swags posted:Enhanced Pheremone Receptors 3 What a great way to make your poor Dryad's time in the city even more painful. +2 to social situations where you can clearly smell your mark is not worth -2 to all actions when you're in a smelly area, when a party member forgot their deoderant, when someone has cheep cologne on, or when any type of gas grenade goes off.
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May 16, 2012 14:44
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Piell posted:For one essence worth for a faceomancer, I'd do Muscle Toner 2, Enhanced Pheremone Receptors 3, Cerebral Booster 2, and PuSHeD. If you plan on avoiding combat entirely, you could drop the Muscle Toner and get a Vocal Range Enhancer, Tailored Pheremones 1, and some 0.1 bioware or 0.2 cyberware. In either case, you'll want to pick up a drug habit for more IP. Cram lasts all day but knocks you out at the end of it (or at least, a good amount of stun damage), while Jazz is more short term but only has a small penalty for 10 minutes after it wears off. Mystic Mongol posted:What a great way to make your poor Dryad's time in the city even more painful. +2 to social situations where you can clearly smell your mark is not worth -2 to all actions when you're in a smelly area, when a party member forgot their deoderant, when someone has cheep cologne on, or when any type of gas grenade goes off. I'll buy a gas mask to wear in filthy places. It will be lavender scented. Should I drop Charisma down to 7? I'm hurting a bit for points for skills.
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May 16, 2012 16:44
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You can always go gear-light as well. You're a forest dwelling, fast-talking hacking machine. You don't necessarily need a lot to live on, and you should be able to scam (verbally or electronically) whatever you do need.
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May 16, 2012 18:05
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Here's another character to add to the fail pile. A hunter type I'm not quite finished with yet but I'm a bit stuck on what else to do. I had a mental image of a British lord type of hunter when putting this together if you need some idea of his personality.pre:race: Troll qualities: +Catlike +Born rich -Distinctive style (10points) stats: Body 9 Agility 4 +2 Reaction 5 +2 Strength 5 Charisma 3 Intuition 5 Logic 2 Willpower 3 Edge 5 skills: Longarms 6 +2sportrifles Blades 1 +2swords Gunnery 4 +2ballistic Perception 4 Shadowing 2 Infiltration 2 Negotiation 2 Pilot ground 1 skillgroups: Athletic 2 Outdoor 2 knowledge (15 free): Biology* 6 Trolling 3 ??? contacts: con/loy Fixer 3/2 Mechanic 2/3 cyberware: Cybereyes rating 3 +vision enhancement rating 2 +low light vision +thermo vision +glare compensation +vision magnifier +smart link +cyber safety Datajack Cyberears rating 1 +Audio enhancement rating 2 +Spatial recogniser bioware: Muscle toner rating 2 Synaptic booster rating 2 gear: Steampunk line, +overcoat +knickers +shirt +vest Monocle rating 1 Sword Cane** Armored top hat** Tag Eraser Ammo 3'000 Explosive rounds 500 Elephant gun +smartgun external +sling +metahuman customization troll +extreme environment rating 1 Ares MP-LMG (bike version, no smartlink or range finder for drone version) +smartlink external +improved range finder +removed trigger Revolution (covered wheel bike) +concealed armor rating 12 +metahuman adjustment troll +concealed weapon mount, fixed, remote +response upgrade rating 4 +satellite link MCT-Nissan Roto-drone +weapon mount internal +response upgrade rating 4 +satellite link Commlink Hermes Ikon +Iris Orb +satellite link software Pilot rating 4 Target heavy weapons rating 4 Covert ops rating 3 (only for the drone of course) Firewall rating 4 Fake SIN rating 4 fake weapon licenses rating 4 (elephant gun and Ares MP-LMG) fake hunting license rating 4 **Sadly these items doesn't actually exist but I got permission to make them up. I've got about 15'000 nuyen and 32 karma left to waste. I need some form of knowledge about nature and wilderness too but I'm not sure what to write it down as. Poil fucked around with this message at 11:25 on May 17, 2012 |
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May 17, 2012 10:46
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Talk to your GM, I allow Parazoology as a skill in its own, with specializations being particular biomes or regions (the guy in my group has Asian as special). Otherwise, I love the concept. He's probably pretty durfed out about the upper hunter crust dissing him because of his metatype (The last English king was allegedly killed when turning into a troll, so he knows the white trogs burden!), and it could be a lot of fun to play. Consider contacts, both wacked out Azanian wild guides and bush pilots, or other hunters of dangerous game who could set him up with a sick job or two!
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May 17, 2012 14:46
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Poil posted:I've got about 15'000 nuyen and 32 karma left to waste. I need some form of knowledge about nature and wilderness too but I'm not sure what to write it down as. Current Event with specialization in Nature for up to date stuff. If you are keeping the critter alive and plan to take them to another country, you might need a critter(?) import/export license or know someone that can smuggle it. Parabotany if you want to deal with monster plant. Aside from buying those survival kit, tent, and whatever, you should also gets element protection gear like flame-retardant gear when hunting hellhound. Looking at Runner's Companion, they have Botany, paranormal creature (somehow different from parazoology  ), ecology, environmental law, and nature trail.
Nyaa fucked around with this message at 15:11 on May 17, 2012 |
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May 17, 2012 15:08
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Thanks guys. I'll look into that great stuff (I hope my karma and money is enough for it all). He doesn't plan to capture animals, he only wishes to shoot them all.
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May 17, 2012 19:24
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Here is some general advice I copy/pasted from a forum I've saved in a file for SR characters, since a lot of the same questions keep coming up: --- Gymnastics. It adds to your defense roll when you take the Full Defense Action. It is so good that Street Samurai are well advised to invest in Synthacardiums just to increase this skill's dicepool. First Aid. An untrained character rolls their Medkit's rating when treating injuries. If you have even a point in First Aid, you roll your Logic + Skill + Medkit Rating. This can even treat Stun, and can be used to lower Drain. Influence. That's right, the whole skill group. You don't give a rat's about Leadership most of the time, but you actually need to not be taking defaulting penalties on Ettiquette, Negotiate, and Con. You really need to not be taking defaulting penalties on those skills. Perception. I don't care who you are or what you do, you need this skill. This is a game about detectives, spies, and guerilla warriors, the "notice things" skill is made out of pure gold. Or joy. Whichever one is better. Infiltration. It's the skill where you don't get seen. See Perception. Various Archetypes consider a number of other skills. I wouldn't make a magician without Summoning, Counterspelling, and Spellcasting. I wouldn't make a Rigger without Electronic Warfare, Gunnery, and Pilot: GroundVehicle. A Street Sam should have at least two weapon skills, one of which should be Longarms. Depending upon the game you will either want Shadowing and Palming or not. If you do, you should take the whole Stealth group. Someone in your group should have Medicine. If it isn't your Hacker it should be your Hermetic Mage. Someone should have demolitions, same thing. If you want to drop people silently, get a super squirt and shoot two loogies of Narcoject at people. That being said, there's a lot to be said for just being a Street Sam who has no visible cyberware that is anything but extremely legal and common. That means getting your rear end kicking from Synaptic Boosters, Synthacardium, and Muscle Augmentation. Possibly even starting life as an Ork (who in SR4 are the master race). But what you don't want to do is leave long lasting Astral Signatures around, so if you go mage, be prepared to cast spells at a low Force. That means using spells that are good at a low Force (usually you are pretty safe at around Force 3) - Improved Invisibility, Levitate, Combat Sense, Detect Life. Stun batons are legal to carry, and horrendously effective, so consider them in lieu of kung fu kicks. You can wear a chameleon suit over an armored jacket. If you have a body of 4+ you should do this thing. --- What cyberware/bioware should a mage seriously consider setting fire to his/her essence for? Enhanced Senses and Datajacks. Seriously, you can target people you can "see", so getting vision enhancers is totally worth a Magic point. --- Normally, a Shadowrunning team wants someone who can do the following tasks: Cast Healing Magic. Use a Medkit. Kill Things. Operate heavy machinery. Stealthfully enter restricted areas. Fast talk themselves into restricted areas. Successfully fight a force 8 spirit by themselves. Spy magically. Spy electronically. Spy optically. Control escape routes with their mind. Collect information from the Matrix. Track down restricted equipment. Bypass doors. Destroy entire installations. Triangle Button cars. Smuggle PCs into/out of various countries. Almost every character needs a weapon, a vehicle (motorcycle works usually), and two commlinks. Docwagon contract is almost as important. --- 1. Heal - it operates separately and cumulatively with First Aid and is therefore not replaceable by anything. It is the best spell in the game. 2. Detect Life - bypasses all senses and goes straight for the Star Trek Tricorder bullshit. As per the example in the basic book it is capable of telling you not only where creatures are, but what they are and even what they are doing. 3. Physical Mask - also doubles as an attack spell since you can mask yourself as someone who doesn't have a light machine gun. 4. Fix - cumulative and separate from technical repairs. Game mechanically it is used before getting to normal repairs while the Heal spell is used after First Aid - but whatever. The point is that you shouldn't leave the house without this spell. 5. Mana Static - The answer to spirits and enemy magicians. It's a one-stop nut-punch to essentially any magical threat. It's hard for you to do anything while you're doing it, but who cares? 6. Trid Phantasm - Information is power, and Trid Phantasm allows you to create any information you want. Drain is intense, but seriously - holy crap. 7. Control Thoughts - The long term effects of this are pretty small, as it takes anyone just a few combat rounds to shake it off. However, this spell allows you to get pretty much anyone to do pretty much anything they could do in 15 seconds. In Shadowrun, that's a lot. 8. Shape Metal - Yes, you read that right, this is a sustained spell. That means that you can use it to open things and close them again. It's like having a portable door that also doubles as virtually unbreakable restraints. 9. Mind Probe - It's actually really hard to interogate people. Almost anyone can hold out against torture if they think they are going to die anyway. Mind Probe ends all that. 10. Turn to Goo - It serves double duty. First, it can be used as a simple Save-or-Die to drop an enemy right out of the fight, but secondly it can also be used to store characters in relative safety. Once in goo form, a character is actually pretty hard to hurt and doesn't need to breathe. You can use this spell on hostages to sequester them out of harm's way and on teammates you are smuggling through security. It serves as an attack, a defense, and a utility spell and operates on a completely random set of physical laws that other things do not apply to. Special shout-outs go to Power Bolt, Improved Invisibility, Resist Pain, Levitate, Sterilize, and Animate. --- Here's the cost efficiency of various things in Karma/BP: Attributes 5-6: 139% (18 Karma/25 BP) Attributes 1-6: 108% (60 Karma/65 BP) Attributes 3-6: 100% (45 Karma/45 BP) Specializations: 100% (2 Karma/2 BP) Skills 0-4: 73% (22 Karma/16 BP) Spells: 60% (5 Karma/3 BP) Skills 0-6: 55% (44 Karma/ 24 BP) Positive Qualities: 50% (10 Karma/5 BP) Skills 4-6: 36% (22 Karma/8 BP) Skills 5-6: 33% (12 Karma/4 BP) Skills 6-7: 29% (28 Karma/8 BP) Complex Forms 0-6: 27% (22 Karma/6 BP) OK, what does that mean? It means that if you have Aptitude you want to start with your seven, because it is totally inefficient to buy it up to seven later. It means that you want to start with as many of the positive qualities as you are going to ever want. It means that you want to start with one skill as high as it will go (I reccomend a skill that is not in a skill group like Perception) rather than multiple skills at 5. It means that an attribute should start at 5 or 1. It means that you should buy as many points of skills as you can. Remember, skills are inefficient and expensive. However, skills are more overpriced with karma than they are with BP, so try to get as many of them as you can with BP rather than Karma. If you are a technomancer, it is of absolute necessity that you purchase all of your Complex Forms, at Rating 6, at character generation. You'll want to have a starting Logic of 5 (or 6 if you have Exceptional Attribute), and get 10 Complex Forms at 6 (or 12 if you have Exceptional Attribute). That is a requirement if you have Karma to spend as well. --- If you don't have a good Analyze, Scan, Browse, Command, and Edit, there's pretty much jack you can do in the Matrix (an unfortunate situation to be in for a technomancer). And if you ever want to get any hacking done, you'll want Sniffer, Spoof, Exploit, Decrypt, and Stealth before we've even gotten to combat forms, which you actually don't have room for unless you have a Logic above 5. --- As far as I can tell, the only thing worth Threading is a program you otherwise wouldn't have at all (such as Defuse) and which is only used by itself (such as Track). Compared to the total BP cost of just having all programs at rating 6 for a Hacker (19 BP), the whole Technomancer hacking experience is just pretty underwhelming. Where Technos really shine, I think, is in Rigging. Rigging only requires a couple of forms: Command, Encrypt, ECCM, and Scan. And a Technomancer can jump into a Drone in VR and overclock it up to 4 IPs. The technomancer can even have Machine Sprites jump into other drones and pilot them around as well. For 28 Karma, you can have 4 IPs in drones, and have a Resonance of 5 despite your Control Rig and Smartlink. You can substantially outshine Street Samurai in terms of whup-rear end per turn. I don't think you can meaningfully compete with the Hacker in terms of hacking into enemy nodes and stealing paydata within the life of an average game, but I don't think anyone can compete with a Technomancer Rigger in terms of raw rear end-kicking. --- Technomancers, as printed, never stop being weak. Ever. The dicepool of the standard "Hacker Adept" will with relatively little Karma and money cap out under the basic game rules at 15 for hacking tests. (That's Skill 6, Improved Ability +3, and a Response 6 Commlink). That's as high as the Hacker Adept can ever get without resorting to improved systems from Unwired which has not been published. Now the Technomancer is uncapped. Using only the basic rules, her dice pool can go as high as you want to think about. There is literally nothing in the Matrix that could stop a high-end Technomancer (even Sprites are capped at Rating 8 because higher ratings don't persist long enough to be registered). But wait a minute, how much Karma are we talking? Well... a lot. A character starts with probably at most 12 Complex Forms. To hack properly you need 18. To match the dicepool of our Hacker Adept we need to raise them all to Rating 9. To do that we need to Submerge ourself three times (42 Karma), actually upgrade Resonance 3 times (72 Karma), and purchase 12 programs from 6 to 9 (288 Karma) and 6 more programs from 0 to 9 (276 Karma). And thats in addition to buying the skill groups up to 6 from 4 like the Hacker Adept has to do (110 Karma). And while we've matched the dicepools, our matrix attributes still blow until we purchase all remaining mental stats up to 6 (probably about 132 Karma). So yeeah, a Hacker Adept can max out all her Hacking by maximizing two skill groups (110 Karma), upgrading her Commlink (11,000 :nuyen:), and buying up two points of Magic (21 Karma). So for a mere 920 Karma a Technomancer who does nothing else in her entire life can match what the Hacker Adept can do on less than 150 Karma and a month's rent. After that, the sky is the loving limit, the Technomancer is completely uncapped. But you know what? Who gives a gently caress? I have never ever seen a game where the players made 1,000 Karma before it was over, so the Technomancer is always going to be playing second fiddle to the Hacker Adept at the only thing she does - Hack. It's sad.
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May 17, 2012 23:30
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Gobbeldygook posted:First Aid. An untrained character rolls their Medkit's rating when treating injuries. If you have even a point in First Aid, you roll your Logic + Skill + Medkit Rating. This can even treat Stun, and can be used to lower Drain. That seems mistakenly worded. Everyone gets to add their Logic attribute to the test, trained or untrained. First Aid is usually not worth it unless you are going a dedicated medic, IMO, since you can easily get at least 7 dice to start. (minimum logic 1 + medkit 6) quote:If you want to drop people silently, get a super squirt and shoot two loogies of Narcoject at people. I am a big fan of slap patches filled with DMSO + Narcoject. They look just like any other medical slap patch! quote:Stun batons are legal to carry, and horrendously effective, so consider them in lieu of kung fu kicks. Similarly for tasers. Legal, cheap, and highly effective at short range. quote:Good Spells
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May 18, 2012 00:07
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Piell posted:That seems mistakenly worded. Everyone gets to add their Logic attribute to the test, trained or untrained. First Aid is usually not worth it unless you are going a dedicated medic, IMO, since you can easily get at least 7 dice to start. (minimum logic 1 + medkit 6) 2. Stunbolt is a combat spell and has no use in any other context besides knocking people out. In a world with sniper rifles, automatic weapons, tasers, and chemical warfare, knocking people out is not important at all. Powerbolt has utility outside of pure knock-out combat as it lets you destroy stuff, walls, and drones which tend to be far more of a threat to a mage's ability to sneak (especially with the 20th Anniversary's new object resistances) than people are. You could totally justify learning Stunball and Powerbolt or something. Incidentally, watch out for 20th anniversary's sneaky change that staging up damage on spells increases drain. It took my group forever to notice that one.
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May 18, 2012 04:10
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Trying to update my character concept is kinda tricky with only the corebook on hand. Are there any other character generators besides the Daisybox one I'm using right now that are recommended? Preferably ones that go into a bit more detail about things like what exactly PuSHeD does or how to upgrade a commlink?
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May 18, 2012 06:52
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Davin Valkri posted:Trying to update my character concept is kinda tricky with only the corebook on hand. Are there any other character generators besides the Daisybox one I'm using right now that are recommended? Preferably ones that go into a bit more detail about things like what exactly PuSHeD does or how to upgrade a commlink? Some people like Chummer, I prefer this excel sheet.
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May 18, 2012 07:06
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What about the spell Magic Fingers? I found it amazing, the only limit is your own creativity. If you can see something you can mess with it. Nice synergy with Improved Invisibility if you want to do something sneaky like stealing items or just delivering an invisible grenade with high precision.Gobbeldygook posted:Incidentally, watch out for 20th anniversary's sneaky change that staging up damage on spells increases drain. It took my group forever to notice that one.
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May 18, 2012 09:40
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Poil posted:What about the spell Magic Fingers? I found it amazing, the only limit is your own creativity. If you can see something you can mess with it. Nice synergy with Improved Invisibility if you want to do something sneaky like stealing items or just delivering an invisible grenade with high precision. An airburst link reduces scatter to 1d6 and causes grenades to explode without delay. There is no real difference between an "invisible" grenade and a grenade that just goes off immediately. Incidentally, my favorite stupid FAQ response: quote:Isn’t tossing a grenade on the ground by someone’s feet (a Success Test) easier than trying to hit them directly with a grenade (an Opposed Test)? Does everyone caught in the blast get a chance to dodge/react? 2. But it doesn't actually change anything, it just means mages use Force 11 stun bolts to one shot people instead of Force 9 + net hits.
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May 18, 2012 10:56
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1. Yeah that makes sense. Since my mage is so poorly optimized I can't really use spirits so I don't have enough experience with them and how to use them properly. It's such a hassle to have to make possessions rolls for spirits in order for them to do anything (my gm houseruled against possessing unprepared and unwilling people). Magic Fingers does have a lot of range though. Also that rule is kinda stupid but I suppose it makes sense for balance. Wait, does that oppose test crap still apply if I'm holding a grenade next to someone's head and detonates it? 2. Being forced to use higher force spells does help a little in that it takes longer to hide the traces and demand more drain. But yes I see your point. It doesn't matter a whole lot.
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May 18, 2012 15:21
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Gobbeldygook posted:Incidentally, my favorite stupid FAQ response: Who told them they can make rules? Someone have them stop making rules. It didn't occur to them that maybe this makes launcher weapons 100% accurate because they detonate on impact? Sheesh.
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May 18, 2012 15:27
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Poil posted:1. Yeah that makes sense. Since my mage is so poorly optimized I can't really use spirits so I don't have enough experience with them and how to use them properly. It's such a hassle to have to make possessions rolls for spirits in order for them to do anything (my gm houseruled against possessing unprepared and unwilling people). A quick collection of comments from authors on possession and continues the trend of mocking the FAQ. First, the FAQ says: quote:When a spirit uses Possession or Inhabitation on a character, are the dual entity’s attributes limited by the character’s maximum augmented attribute values? quote:OK, the possession traditions were written and playtested with no caps. I know: I wrote and playtested them. quote:Oh that. Peter Taylor announced that the physical stats of non materialized spirits were going to be limited by the augmented caps of the host. That caused, needless to say, a lot of sputtering and invectives. quote:Channeling doesn't do anything. For a while, Peter had romantic notions about loving over possession traditions by having the spirits run off and do crazy crap during your time with them. But since Possession Spirits use exactly the same rules as normal spirits, that didn't pan out. Channeling stayed in because Peter wrote that section while he was trying to convince me to write horrible punitive restrictions on Possessed actions. Pretend it's made of static - like the official writeup of the Astral Sight quality, which is completely pointless (compare to: Adept from the basic book). I think that bonehead error was John. quote:The question of how Materialization, Astral Projection, and Possession work is a complex one. Because yes, they are powers that push across the borders between the world, so they violate the normal rules. quote:Possessing enemies is very weird from a tactical point of view. Actually, it's so weird and frightening tactically that I opposed its inclusion. But regardless, here's the consideration: quote:Any possession spirit can possess a dead body just like they can possess an unprepared toaster or ny other inanimate thing. Once it's dead, it has an object resistance. Now, the OR of a dead human is pretty low (similar to that of a tree or a rock), but the mechanics are the same as for possessing a combat drone or a refridgerator. quote:What would happen if a spirit of... say... Man, posessed a drone which was as the time being jumped into by a hacker/rigger? quote:This is from Synner aka Peter Taylor:There are a number of balancing points for offensive possession (believe me it was throughly discussed). One major one with regards to stuff like Control Body is its cost effectiveness. For offensive possession to be relatively sure to work against an average human you'll be expending a service from a Force 5 or 6 spirit (with the respective risks involved in Drain and the conjuring costs of Binding if relevant). That's not even mentioning all the normal traditions that don't have the Possession option.
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May 18, 2012 16:18
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Oh, all this is from Frank Trollman? That explains a lot. (Frank Trollman is bad at rules and I strongly suggest ignoring him completely)
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May 18, 2012 19:56
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Mystic Mongol posted:Oh, all this is from Frank Trollman? That explains a lot. It's sad when you should ignore an actual Shadowrun writer's intended rules, but yes he is a sperglord actual. I don't know why possession even exists, or why it needed to be more complicated than "Hosts physical stats, possessor's mental stats." Just more needless overcomplication.
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May 18, 2012 21:55
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Mystic Mongol posted:Oh, all this is from Frank Trollman? That explains a lot. Given that he didn't want to put in possessing random unprepared unwilling targets and the other writers did, he gets the benefit of the doubt on this point. He is generally good, just once he gets a Clever Rule Interpretation in his head he will never, ever admit his reading might be incorrect. It is deliciously ironic at times to compare/contrast him growling at people about authorial intent of his work while forcing stupid, literal readings on RPGs in general. As for specific points of dispute in what he said - -He's wrong about what the FAQ writer meant about physical attributes. There is very clear intent, both there and otherwise, to put a complete stop to possessing spirits cranking up peoples attributes past the augmented maximums. -By RAW, possession spirits almost certainly do obey the cap on metahumans. The wording - "force is added to the vessel's physical attributes" - is the same as, for example, "Muscle toner adds its rating to the character's Agility." Whatever his intent was, it didn't actually make it onto paper. There's no way to torture his reading out of the pure text. Now, the RAW still leads madness with homunculi. Their attributes are -defined- as being like (Force+8) and don't have augmented maximum attributes because they are not metahumans. He's right about it being balanced to ignore the augmented cap, so that is how I run it in my games. Also I don't want voudoun shaman to be charging into battle with loving steampunk robots. -By RAW, he's almost certainly wrong about channeling. His authorial intent is otherwise but Peter Taylor/Synner's intent is also very clear and is what is on paper. "The mind of the vessel remains in whatever state it was when possession began; if conscious, it becomes an impotent witness locked inside its own body for the duration." is really clear and is stated in several places. (ninja edit) Bigass Moth posted:It's sad when you should ignore an actual Shadowrun writer's intended rules, but yes he is a sperglord actual. 2. Your simple solution would make virtually the only use for possession to be aggressive possession of targets in combat and would not allow it to represent, for example, a Native American tribesman taking on the spirit of the wolf, a Norse berserker, etc as the current version does. Mage+possessed spirit is supposed to be equivalent in value and utility to Mage+materialized spirit throwing Fears or a Spirit of Man with Stunbolt which requires it provide a meaningful boost in some way. Gobbeldygook fucked around with this message at 22:05 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 22:00
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Gobbeldygook posted:1. Because they have had possession traditions for three editions and 20 years. 1. They had Datajacks for 3 editions and they made them nearly 100% worthless. Things can change. 2. Magic is stupidly overpowered, why do they need more options to make it even more deadly?
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May 18, 2012 22:28
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Bigass Moth posted:1. They had Datajacks for 3 editions and they made them nearly 100% worthless. Things can change. 1. March of progress. In 3E, a telephone in your head was .75 essence and a lot of money. In 4e, you can have a Droid in your head for like .2 essence. Now you can have a DNI with a headband. whoop whoop! b. Nanopaste and trode nets are far more likely to be removed/have environmental issues/ for various reasons than datajacks. They're the kind of thing the GM remembers when they're trying to figure out what to do for a glitch or just wants the weather to be interesting. 2. Possession is merely equivalent to manifestation and are, in many ways, a wash. Complaining that it's such bullshit that mages get new, balanced options in new books because their old ones were good is like complaining about the introduction of the Desert Strike in Arsenal because street samurai could already two-shot anyone in a pass.
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May 18, 2012 23:28
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