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A 2600K's already going to be ridiculously-fast at 4.6ghz.. Just for single-threaded tasks I get like a 7.7s 1M superpi run with mine for instance. So personally, given the headache involved I wouldn't bother switching for nearly-identical performance. Especially given the extra work involved with your small case layout.
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May 19, 2012 05:26
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Allow me to be the lone voice advocating for needless fiddling. You know you want to.
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May 19, 2012 23:42
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Dogen posted:Allow me to be the lone voice advocating for needless fiddling.  So I helped my buddy out and swapped my 2600k to the 3770k. Look at these ridiculous load temperatures at stock speeds:   Is it still 72C for Ivy Bridge? If so I have absolutely zero overclocking headroom anymore and am seriously considering doing this, even though I've never removed an IHS before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCW508yl_Eg
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May 20, 2012 00:35
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gently caress it, why not? Warranty isn't transferable anyway, and you go back enough that applying thermal paste to a CPU directly isn't scary, right?  Go for it, make sure you use something that isn't going to desiccate in two years, and report your results.I'm going to guess there's three really important margins for error here, though... 1. Application of the good TIM to the CPU itself. Here's one where I'd say classic style thin layer, get the plastic out and get ready to spread! 2. Reattachment of the heatspreader to the silicon. You figure that one out, man, 'cause I dunno. Screw it up and you could end up with a worse situation than now, or bolting a 70+lb/inch^2 cooler directly to a processor. Seems dangerous, get the heatspreader back on right so it doesn't screw up step 1... 3. Installing the cooler so that it doesn't screw up number 2. 'Cause then you're back to step 1 again. Sounds fun! But you could grab a bunch of overclocking headroom if you do it right, so good luck and godspeed.
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May 20, 2012 00:44
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Yeah, I'm not impressed with Ivy Bridge, and it's mainly a packaging issue. What the gently caress, Intel?
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May 20, 2012 00:51
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72 C-ish. More like 68C if you go by TDP-rated Tcase. Jeepers. That really doesn't look right. Did you really give the heatsink surface some elbow grease when cleaning it? After I did about 3 reinstalls, I had to majorly scrub the bottom of my Hyper 212 to get all the accumulated layers of gunk off. It looked clean, but when I really worked at it, I still had paste coming up. E: Intel sells overclocking insurance on the 3770K for $25 if you want to play fast and loose with temperature limits. http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/ Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 00:54 on May 20, 2012 |
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May 20, 2012 00:52
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3770k temps are okay at 4.2 during IntelBurnTest but I'm really disappointed since my 2600k got to 4.4 under the same conditions. 4.6 was even good for gaming, though too hot for IntelBurnTest. I'm less than impressed with Ivy Bridge. 
Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 01:01 on May 20, 2012 |
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May 20, 2012 00:54
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Factory Factory posted:72 C-ish. More like 68C if you go by TDP-rated Tcase.
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May 20, 2012 00:55
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:3770k temps are okay at 4.2 during IntelBurnTest but I'm really disappointed since my 2600k got to 4.4 under the same conditions. 4.6 was even good for gaming, though too hot for IntelBurnTest. Weird that it'd be so warm since the heat/power difference between a 2500K & 2600K isn't really that much, but there seems to be alot of things about the IB chips that are strange. To be expected with several new technologies in play at any rate. I'm not sure I'd attempt the IHS removal though. Getting it off would be easy-enough, but IIRC you'd need to modify the cooler for better contact without crushing the core, and that's generally harder to pull off successfully. Even with a Thermalright cooler you'd have to be mm-exact with any shim you use, and it wouldn't give you much room for error.
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May 20, 2012 01:08
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Oh I'd put the IHS back on. I just want to change the awful thermal paste application that Intel is apparently doing on IVB. I've decided that I'm not going to make any change for now. I've got a friend building the exact same setup this week: SG-08, Asrock Z77E-ITX, and 3770k. Guess where he got his inspiration.  If his results are similar to mine, I'll know that them's the breaks with Ivy Bridge. Man it'll be nice to have a control group.
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May 20, 2012 01:16
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:Oh I'd put the IHS back on. I just want to change the awful thermal paste application that Intel is apparently doing on IVB. This is still your "PC console" right? Have you turned off hyper threading? I'd imagine that'd give you some much needed thermal headroom.
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May 20, 2012 01:45
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I can't even trust IVB's temperature readings. Supposedly the minimum recorded temperature within the last 15 minutes or so was 13C/55F. That's literally impossible because it's probably about 21C/70F in the room right now.
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May 20, 2012 06:28
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Give HWiNFO64 a shot.
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May 20, 2012 06:34
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RealTemp seems to do the job as well. Speed Fan is telling me that my cores are at a frosty 13c.
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May 20, 2012 18:42
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Factory Factory posted:Give HWiNFO64 a shot.
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May 20, 2012 18:55
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So is it conclusive that the thermal paste is the issue? I've seen articles claiming a 20% reduction by switching up for aftermarket paste, but I've also seen articles claiming no change at all.
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May 20, 2012 22:49
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coffeetable posted:So is it conclusive that the thermal paste is the issue? I've seen articles claiming a 20% reduction by switching up for aftermarket paste, but I've also seen articles claiming no change at all. Of those two tests, I think the one using Intel's engineered thermal solution but replacing their marginal application of questionable TIM is a much more effective test, as coolers are designed with the heatspreader in mind and there's a huge margin of error for correctly applying a modern heat sink, designed to seat firmly against the integrated heat spreader, to the processor itself. The more interesting thing is reports of pretty widely varying temperatures at voltage, which correlates more strongly with the hypothesis that iffy internal TIM applications in the manufacturing process could be to blame for some chips performing better and others performing worse (which, in my opinion, some screenshots I've seen definitely are, causing the inappropriately applied TIM to act as an insulator rather than a proper filling-in-microscopic-gaps conductor of heat). While the process and transistor changes are both big deals and can't be discounted, nonetheless it is very odd to go from chips that are more often voltage-walled (Sandy Bridge) to chips that are more often temperature-walled, especially given that the power savings and superior thermal characteristics were supposed to be some of the more profound improvements in the design, not dramatic clock for clock improvements. I'd speculate further that Intel wouldn't have abandoned the blatantly superior thermal conductivity of solder to use a gooped TIM application if the chips themselves weren't capable of running cooler than Sandy Bridge in the first place. Perhaps a cost savings due to a lack of competition, and one which affects primarily the smaller enthusiast market, since the thermal performance of their chips is still dandy in stock configurations for normal usage. Getting back to my problem with the article which tests the naked CPU and cooler and concludes it's the chip, not the TIM, I'd especially question their choice of cooler for this test. The mounting pressure required to secure a Noctua NH-D14 is immense. I have one, it's over three pounds. It features a full contact block engineered to make flush contact with the heatspreader, which also serves as strain relief for the profound mounting pressure exerted by the forceful mounting system. It's kind of neat that taking the IHS element out of the equation at least doesn't hurt the NH-D14's performance as measured there, but it is also seriously questionable what performance gains could be expected. That's not the engineering scenario decided upon by either Intel or Noctua. It is outside of design parameters, so what is actually being tested is pretty much up in the air. More and better data might come on, but for the time being I am very skeptical of tests which go so far out of the design parameters of both CPU and heat sink. Replacing one variable, still within the scope of the design parameters of both devices, and doing so well getting better results speaks more to me than an effectively entirely different test. Agreed fucked around with this message at 23:33 on May 20, 2012 |
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May 20, 2012 23:26
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akadajet posted:RealTemp seems to do the job as well. Speed Fan is telling me that my cores are at a frosty 13c. e: What's likely going on with the monitoring programs is that the internal temperature offsets haven't been properly adjusted for the new chips yet. Same thing that happens with every new architecture. future ghost fucked around with this message at 03:57 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 03:52
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Uh... Yes. My point was that Speed Fan isn't giving me accurate readings, whereas RealTemp appears to be.
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May 21, 2012 04:04
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akadajet posted:Uh... Yes. My point was that Speed Fan isn't giving me accurate readings, whereas RealTemp appears to be. Running a bit of a fever at the moment, so please forgive my previous snideness
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May 21, 2012 04:57
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I have what I think are high temps on my 3750K at stock speeds. The cooler is a Hyper 212 Evo and I'm seeing idle core temps of around 36 degrees and 60-65 under full load. This isn't leaving me a lot of headroom for overclocking, and for that CPU and cooler at stock speeds, these seem high, are they? Case is a Fractal R3 with the fans in stock configuration. I'm wondering if I did a bad job of mounting the cooler, I always find them really fiddly. I think the first port of call might be to tighten up all the screws, I tightened them until they stopped but I think they could all get a little squeeze extra as I was worried about over-tightening. Also, the little thumb screw in the middle of the X bracket, should this be tightened? I'm sure the instructions didn't mention it and I assumed it was just to keep the bracket centered, but does it maybe apply extra pressure to the cooler? Does anyone know? Also I'm getting confusing temperature readings. Asus AI Suite (I expect this is crap) seems to be reporting the package temp instead of core temps, and is much lower, I'm guessing the core temp readings from something like RealTemps are what I should be going by? This is screwing up their "smart" fan control software because the temperature is reading is much much lower than the core temps, so it's keeping the fan at around 600RPM all the time and I'm having to set it manually. Oh, another thing. When I jack this fan up to 100% duty cycle I'm only getting 1500RPM out of it, this isn't right is it? The spec sheet rates the fan up to 2000RPM.
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May 21, 2012 15:36
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chippy posted:I have what I think are high temps on my 3750K at stock speeds. The cooler is a Hyper 212 Evo and I'm seeing idle core temps of around 36 degrees and 60-65 under full load. This isn't leaving me a lot of headroom for overclocking, and for that CPU and cooler at stock speeds, these seem high, are they? Case is a Fractal R3 with the fans in stock configuration. 1) a stable low idle temp basically lets you know you didn't EGREGIOUSLY gently caress something up. those load temps do seem high for stock. 2) asus ai suite is awful for temp readings 3) i would uninstall ai suite and control the fan via the BIOS instead, which I believe also uses the package temp, but you can set it on "Turbo" and call it a day and have it work pretty well in my experience. 4) assuming it's a 212 EVO, it should hit 2000 RPM. see if uninstalling aisuite helps this problem by checking your fan speed during IBT or something.
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May 21, 2012 17:45
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Thanks, I'm going to have a fiddle, disable Fan Expert and try tightening things up. I've just noticed that OCCT is reding 3/4 degrees lower than RealTemp, any idea which is the more trustworthy? edit: Although core 0 keeps getting "stuck" on 29.8 according to OCCT while RealTemp is still reading it fine. Weird. chippy fucked around with this message at 19:07 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 19:05
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I'm not entirely sure that Asus' motherboards are accurately communicating with the thermal sensors beyond the package-level at the moment for Ivy Bridge. I know it took a few BIOS revisions for both the main line, the Sabertooth, and the ROG boards to get accurate temperature readings for most software (including generally trustworthy ones like RealTemp or HWiNFO64). The first few BIOSes had about a 20ºC error that led people into thinking they were running really, really hot sometimes. That doesn't mean the Ivy Bridge heat issues aren't real, or that it's just a mis-read of the temps rather than something in the manufacturing process (in my opinion, which isn't set in stone but which does seem pretty factual at this point - still watching for more evidence one way or another, leaning "iffy IHS TIM applications" over "Ivy Bridge just runs hot inherently!").
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May 21, 2012 19:38
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chippy posted:Thanks, I'm going to have a fiddle, disable Fan Expert and try tightening things up. I've just noticed that OCCT is reding 3/4 degrees lower than RealTemp, any idea which is the more trustworthy? Hwinfo64 has been consistently accurate for me, and is generally recommended in this thread for monitoring during testing
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May 21, 2012 20:45
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Well, I guess I give up for this evening. I've tightened up all the screws as they all had a bit of leeway in, and flashed the latest BIOS (board is Asus P8Z77-V by the way). No difference, it's still maxing out at 65 on the hottest core. I'm still only getting 1500RPM out of that fan on 100% duty cycle, even in the BIOS, so I don't know what the gently caress. I've disabled Asus' Smart Fan bullshit but the fan speeds still keep reverting to really slow on Windows startup, so I guess I'll have to uninstall it all together. I guess I'll completely remount the cooler one night this week and redo the paste just in case I messed that up. Pretty pissed at this point. I always seem to end up with cooling issues with my machines. At least it's stable I guess, even if it is high, and it's not going to hit 65 when gaming so it's not going to cook, but I was hoping to get a pretty decent overclock out of this. I've just noticed all the apps are reading my base clock as 100.3 instead of 100. Anyone know of a good reason for this? I take it that's not right. edit: Also, does anyone know if the centre screw in the 212 Evo is meant to add any pressure? Or is it just to keep the thing centred? It never seems to get any tighter. chippy fucked around with this message at 20:56 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 20:50
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From what I remember the center screw is there to apply pressure, but it's not adjustable. The center screw on my heatsink (Thermalright Archon) is adjustable and came with a goofy little wrench so that I can adjust the tension while mounted; however, the minimum force is the Intel spec so I hesitate to mess with it. My best advice is to just remove it, clean it real good, and try again, at this point. Maybe they changed up fans? Or maybe the fan RPM sensor is wrong? Who knows. Are you sure you have the CPU fan plugged into the right mobo header and you aren't looking at a case fan, or something?
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May 21, 2012 21:22
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coffeetable posted:Thanks for the reassurance Define XL is a really amazing case if you're like me and have a lot of HDDs. I have 7 HDDs and the case is completely silent under normal use. Plus it's really quality built, weighs a ton though. Fractal Design customer support is amazing too. I broke the front audio jacks by stepping on the cable so i contacted them about buying a replacement, they told me to give them my address and shipped it with priority mail across Europe for free.
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May 21, 2012 21:46
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. In that case, I think a stock Arc Midi would suit my needs fine. Having said that,
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chippy posted:I have what I think are high temps on my 3750K at stock speeds. The cooler is a Hyper 212 Evo and I'm seeing idle core temps of around 36 degrees and 60-65 under full load. This isn't leaving me a lot of headroom for overclocking, and for that CPU and cooler at stock speeds, these seem high, are they? Case is a Fractal R3 with the fans in stock configuration.
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May 21, 2012 21:58
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chippy posted:I have what I think are high temps on my 3750K at stock speeds. The cooler is a Hyper 212 Evo and I'm seeing idle core temps of around 36 degrees and 60-65 under full load. This isn't leaving me a lot of headroom for overclocking, and for that CPU and cooler at stock speeds, these seem high, are they? I'm getting basically same temps on my 3570k and a 212 Evo in an Asus P8Z77-V board.
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May 21, 2012 22:00
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Nomenclature posted:That looks like what I got too with the 3570K and 212 Evo. I pulled off the cooler and verified that the thermal paste looked perfect. Did it make any difference? Sucks if we're all getting it although I feel less alone. Maybe it's the processor then. Did either of you guys manage to squeeze an overclock in? Are you both managing to get 2000RPM out of your fan? It's definitely in the CPU_FAN header.
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May 21, 2012 22:14
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chippy posted:Did it make any difference? My Cooler Master 4-pin CPU fan is only good for 1,900 RPM.
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May 21, 2012 22:22
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I wouldn't be massively unhappy with 4.2 really. Isn't 85 too hot though? I was under the impression that 72 at the hottest core was about the limit. e: Oddly I've just noticed that Scan, where I bought everything from, only lists the fan as 600-1600RPM, so maybe they did change the spec. chippy fucked around with this message at 22:26 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 22:24
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chippy posted:I wouldn't be massively unhappy with 4.2 really. Isn't 85 too hot though? I was under the impression that 72 at the hottest core was about the limit. Also, I found that neither adding a second CPU-cooler fan nor keeping the fans running full-blast changed the max temps, which suggests that the limit is the chip transferring heat to the IHS, not the IHS transferring heat to the cooler.
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May 21, 2012 22:28
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Yeah, I might just leave it for now and see how things play out with this lovely TIM/IHS thing, whether it turns out to be true or not. It's a poo poo hot rig either way.
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May 21, 2012 22:33
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chippy posted:I wouldn't be massively unhappy with 4.2 really. Isn't 85 too hot though? I was under the impression that 72 at the hottest core was about the limit. 72C is Intel's recommended 24/7 overclock. That is, it's the overclock at which the overwhelming majority of chips should last until the end of the warranty period. If you don't care about that, or you're just experimenting, you can blow straight through that.
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May 21, 2012 22:35
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chippy posted:Did it make any difference? I've got mine running at 4.1 and it stays in the 60 degree range while running prime95 overnight.
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May 21, 2012 22:50
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I did the standard 42 overclock for my I5-2500K. Using core temp i had both Counter Strike:Source running and Diablo 3. I was playing CS:S multiplayer while browsing the auction house of Diablo 3 in between rounds. CoreTemp showed my 4 cores being 67-70 as their high values after 1 1/2 hours.. Is that alright or am i running a risk of blowing it up.
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May 22, 2012 01:22
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CancerStick posted:I did the standard 42 overclock for my I5-2500K. Using core temp i had both Counter Strike:Source running and Diablo 3. I was playing CS:S multiplayer while browsing the auction house of Diablo 3 in between rounds. Default cooler? Yeah its fine.
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May 22, 2012 01:27
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Animal posted:Default cooler? Yeah its fine. Sorry, should have obviously said that. But, no. ZALMAN CNPS9500A-LED 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118223 I recently had the fan go out on the Zalman so I had to reinstall it. I made sure it was really clean before reapplying new paste. Maybe I didn't get the paste on correct, or it's not sitting on the cpu good? With that cooler should the temps be much lower? I'm thinking about getting a new fan, because I couldn't get the fan installed correctly and have it set to push air out the top of the case. Hence, why the fan probably went out in six months.
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May 22, 2012 01:32
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