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invision posted:Really all I saw was a guy on a 250 passing bikes that were way bigger than his in the corners, then it was a drag race to see who could get on the brakes first for the next corner in which the 250 guy would invariably pass them again. Just as z3n says really, it gets dangerous because not only is your closing speed huge when both bikes are committed to the corner already, but you will be on different lines, which will probably cross mid corner. A less experienced rider may also be on a line that makes no sense or on 2 or 3 different lines in the worst cases. On the 400, which is actually a heavy bike by 2012 standards, there were times I unintentionally scared the poo poo out of bigger bikes. Imagine you're on a full sized sportbike and are tightening your line to hit an apex a few feet to one side. Suddenly a bike going 20-30mph faster appears under your elbow, passing through your intended path. Worse, imagine a big fast bike running a squared off line. I'm coming up fast behind taking a corner speed line with a later apex. I either back off, or try to go around the outside and inevitably lose all speed and get dropped even worse on the straight than I already am, or I ride my line. If I do the latter and he tucks back tight to his apex, I'm at full lean with a big closing speed with a bike physically in my way. If it happens early enough and there is space, I can stand it up and hopefully not run off. If not, I torpedo him and we both crash.
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May 19, 2012 08:07
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Saga posted:If not, I torpedo him and we both crash. Trolling, track day style.
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May 19, 2012 14:14
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An observer posted:I see that all the time. ATGATT, with one piece missing. Everything but pants. Everything but shoes. Everything but gloves. Etc. I prefer the half ATGATT: Full face Back armor Leather jacket Gloves Cargo shorts Tennis shoes and no socks R6
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May 19, 2012 14:54
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SOTGATT. This is on the market for a rather impolite price, but still very tempting. Does anyone know if the stock Elefant suspension is stone age stuff? 
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May 19, 2012 15:04
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Saga posted:Just as z3n says really, it gets dangerous because not only is your closing speed huge when both bikes are committed to the corner already, but you will be on different lines, which will probably cross mid corner. A less experienced rider may also be on a line that makes no sense or on 2 or 3 different lines in the worst cases. Yep but none of this happened, he did successfully pass around the outside of bikes squaring off the corners, and looked like a boss doing it. He didn't seem to have much trouble avoiding their lines and taking advantage of the bad ones. But I too have trouble finding joy in things unless they meet a very specific criteria of safety and planning. edit: ffs pictures 
nsaP fucked around with this message at 18:46 on May 19, 2012 |
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May 19, 2012 18:43
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That's intermediate group with keigwins so you're arguably supposed to be offering a 6 foot buffer as you pass. There are plenty of times where he's not even close to that, because the lines he takes and the lines the riders around him take are so wildly divergent, and oftentimes his passes force the other riders off their lines. That's fine if you're racing, but in the intermediate group at a trackday, it just means you're eventually going to have a big incident when someone asspacks you or you asspack someone. Look, do as many trackdays as you need to to get solidly up at the front of the intermediate group, and you'll see why having a 250 on track like that can get super sketchy, really fast. I'm not gonna say they should be banned from trackdays or stuck in the C group, but there's a reason you don't see 250s in the A group, it's because the speed differentials get really dangerous and no matter how good a rider you are, you're getting blown by at a differential of 70mph down some of the straights, even though cornerspeeds are roughly the same. And actually there's a demonstration of every situation that Saga mentions, usually at least once a lap. The big one for me is where he nearly asspacks the guy at 4:10 going in to the corkscrew, ends up running wide, and going across the curbing down the corkscrew. At 5::40 or so he passes a guy on the outside, and the guy has to modify his line to avoid running him off the track on corner exit. The speed differential makes passing more difficult, the lack of power makes making passes stick more difficult, and in the end, you have the rider on the 250 running the same lap times as a lot of the other guys out there but having to pass 3 or more times a lap. Passing in the corners just to get passed again in the straights isn't "riding like a boss", it means you guys are running the same speeds and you can't make your passes stick, which makes you a lovely rider or on the wrong equipment for the job.
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May 19, 2012 19:11
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Last season Pacific Raceways had a ninja 250 get his rear end packed on the front straight due to that 70mph speed difference. The dude was helicoptered out with a broken back. The situation is a problem without a clear answer. Their corner speed puts them in A group, but their straight line speed is closer to C. I'd rather be passed by A group riders than B/C. As is, the clubs have a rule for sumos/250s to stay off the line on the front straight, and they're talking about getting high visibility vests. Two cruisers ran C group at yesterday's track day:  He got crash bar down! Watching that shag carpet flutter in the wind behind Ducatis and an RC8 was an amazing sight. GI Joe jobs fucked around with this message at 19:36 on May 19, 2012 |
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May 19, 2012 19:33
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Female riders wearing yoga pants is a trend we should all support in earnest. ATGATT be damned.
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May 19, 2012 19:41
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Z3n posted:That's intermediate group with keigwins so you're arguably supposed to be offering a 6 foot buffer as you pass. There are plenty of times where he's not even close to that, because the lines he takes and the lines the riders around him take are so wildly divergent, and oftentimes his passes force the other riders off their lines. That's fine if you're racing, but in the intermediate group at a trackday, it just means you're eventually going to have a big incident when someone asspacks you or you asspack someone. Yeah, you're right.
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May 19, 2012 20:22
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kylej posted:Female riders wearing yoga pants is a trend we should all support in earnest. ATGATT be damned. Eh, I'd rather see women's legs covered with bulky armored pants than skin grafts.
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May 19, 2012 20:36
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Z3n posted:in the intermediate group at a trackday, it just means you're eventually going to have a big incident when someone asspacks you or you asspack someone. I saw a great illustration of the problem of different lines when an acquaintance riding his completely mint, brand new R7 road bike got taken out in the bowl at Loudon by someone with more ambition than talent (or is it common sense?). Legal threats ensued. "Ola' posted:It's generally something you want to avoid happening. Which elefant? 900? The elefant is an awesome thing IMO and you should buy it. It's about as trailie as giant trailies got before the 640 Adventure, so assuming Norway has lots and lots of legal dirt roads through those moose-infested swamps and forests, it's perfect. However I say that because it isn't me who will have to actually keep it running. Personally, the last thing I'd be worrying about is the sophistication of the suspension (Hagon will sell you a cheap, functional replacement shock sprung to suit). Old Duke enginess, Cagiva electrics and QC combined with very limited parts availability for anything Cagiva-specific would be more my concern. Now - if it's enthusiast-owned and has been meticulously "fettled", it should be a great ride and will probably not break down until after the next oil change. I'd ask the owners group whether there are any critical failure items that have passed into the realm of unobtanium thanks to the recent fortunes of the factory. But basically everything I've ever read suggests that keeping them running will either send you into a permanent state of rage or alternatively suicidal depression. An AT forums post on the subject: "had my cagiva now for 7 years and its proably been off the road for half that with problems getting bits, its a nightmare and it never seams to get any better. When you finally locate the parts you need to sit down as cagiva really do know how to charge for spares and as MadWelsh says there are very few pattern parts out there to help..." e: if this is going to be a second bike and it's absolutely flawless, I unironically say buy the loving thing, just take lots and lots of pictures and videos, so when it goes badly tits-up at least you have something to remember it by. Saga fucked around with this message at 20:55 on May 19, 2012 |
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May 19, 2012 20:52
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No likely purchase I think, your reality check helps too. It is the 900. The Gran Canyon I lust for also has a Ducati 900 engine, I suppose it's a bit newer but comes with the same sort of issues. It's not too bad getting parts for the engine, but you will have to get lots of them as that's the sort of engines that give Ducati their maintenance reputation, although apparently some aftermarket type of desmo-bits help loads. The rest of the parts are a different matter and it would probably gradually morph into some sort of aftermarket brand as the Cagiva bits slowly eroded away. Still though.  €3200. Totally should.
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May 19, 2012 23:33
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This guy knows what's up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akf4DnabIJo&feature=relmfu
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May 20, 2012 05:36
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Wanna high five that guy. I'm all good 
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May 20, 2012 05:42
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He does know what's up. It is a long rear end train and he is all good.
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May 20, 2012 05:46
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Obviously he should have waited for an open box car and jumped through the doors. My friend's Friend brought his desmo to a track day. I followed him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0hYuMHW_Rc It was on street rubber so he was taking it slow (I would be too with a $30k bike). Those things sound so cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8TX8IzAyBc How can exhaust like this NOT sound cool: 
GI Joe jobs fucked around with this message at 07:53 on May 20, 2012 |
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May 20, 2012 07:51
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Ola posted:No likely purchase I think, your reality check helps too. It is the 900. The Gran Canyon I lust for also has a Ducati 900 engine, I suppose it's a bit newer but comes with the same sort of issues. I think the gran canyon is supposed to be a lot more robust, but it doesn't have the same degree of off-road ability, so is pretty pointless. Considering you can just buy a post-98 900SS and be able to get parts for it anywhere.
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May 20, 2012 08:05
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Z3n posted:Wanna high five that guy. Wanna have a mustache like that someday.
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May 20, 2012 09:32
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Gullous posted:How can exhaust like this NOT sound cool:
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May 20, 2012 16:43
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Gullous posted:(I would be too with a $30k bike).
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May 20, 2012 16:46
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slidebite posted:It looks like the face of a monkey or something  
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May 20, 2012 17:49
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Zool posted:I thought they were $60k
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May 20, 2012 18:49
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So recently got back from a pretty big Eurotrip on the bike. England - France - Pyrenees - Spain - Ferry back to England. Not too dissimilar from what some Goons are planning. In fact, almost exactly the same. This wasn't the exact route, but pretty close to this. I dont want to spend 20 minutes doing a factually accurate honesty-route of the journey.  Prepare to be disappointed by the Pyrenees. The roads are too small to go quickly and are in a poo poo state. If you do beast it you're VERY close to falling off a side of the cliffs. Im only going upload two salient photos as documenting an entire trip, bump by corner is boring for everyone. Midway through France. This was around Limoges I think.  This one was in the middle of the Pyrenees:  I did a YouTube vid of it. The first one was waaay too long and boring. This next one is a distillation of 9 days into 8 mins. I'll post it when it's finished uploading. P.s. This was my SatNav :  Jesus gently caress I'm not doing it again without one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JNFUoBPtYw mootmoot fucked around with this message at 08:04 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 20, 2012 19:11
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mootmoot posted:So recently got back from a pretty big Eurotrip on the bike. England - France - Pyrenees - Spain - Ferry back to England. Not too dissimilar from what some Goons are planning. In fact, almost exactly the same. Probably would have had an easier time if you didn't order maps from rapeco. 
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May 20, 2012 21:49
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Nice trip moot, that is indeed across some of the same roads we're aiming for. I don't mind slow and narrow roads though, that's the only kind there is in Norway.
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May 20, 2012 22:16
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 Currently for sale on ebay in Nampa, ID http://tinyurl.com/cgw6vqr
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May 20, 2012 22:49
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"Attention getter," eh. You don't say.
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May 20, 2012 22:54
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Armyman25 posted:
Turns out this is a brand new bike, built by Kiwi motors in California. http://www.kiwiindian.com/index.php They're expensive, like $30-50K per bike, but they're essentially new production vintage Indians, with a lot of the flaws of the old bikes fixed. What's funny is watching the mental gymnastics on the Indian riders forum about how it's not a "real" Indian, while a Gilroy era Spirit or Chieftain, which are knockoffs of a HD soft tail, are "real" Indians because of the name.
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May 21, 2012 00:31
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Armyman25 posted:What's funny is watching the mental gymnastics on the Indian riders forum about how it's not a "real" Indian, while a Gilroy era Spirit or Chieftain, which are knockoffs of a HD soft tail, are "real" Indians because of the name. Kiwi Indian sounds pretty awesome. I knew they were making parts over there, didn't know whole bikes.
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May 21, 2012 03:00
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I mean, here's a comparison of a 2003 Indian Spirit and a 2003 HD Heritage Soft Tail. 
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May 21, 2012 06:09
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Matchbox rarely ventured into the two-wheeled world, but when they did the results were either extremely cool (early CB race bike, Sunbeam and Triumph hacks) or extremely frightening (monochromatic police forces, moto taxidermy). 
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May 21, 2012 06:28
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That Honda with the trailer (presumably to be pulled by another matchbox truck of some sort) is awesome!
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May 21, 2012 15:06
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I love those Honda CB Matchboxes! I have such a love/hate relationship with streetfighters. If done cleanly they are an inspiration for my bike (  ), and if done poorly . . . well . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCy0GwKiXP0 
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May 21, 2012 15:18
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I'll never understand the upswept tail trend. It seems like you'd be perpetually racking yourself on the tank, plus it just looks funny.
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May 21, 2012 16:02
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You know what bikes have been missing all these years? A shelf in the front for your maps. Thanks, german streetfighters, for pioneering that piece of poo poo.
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May 21, 2012 16:12
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I guess all that can really be said for that video is at least he's fully geared out!
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May 21, 2012 16:37
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This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.
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May 21, 2012 17:04
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Sagebrush posted:This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.  .Definitely had to do a doubletake: what a cool bike.
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May 21, 2012 17:27
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Sagebrush posted:This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.
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May 21, 2012 17:31
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frunksock posted:Infinite trail! Does it turn? Of course; it uses hub-centric steering. First time I've seen that retrofitted to a vintage bike, though. Also I really love the lines of the seat and tank together. They really hit something good there. And that high pipe. Man, every time I look at it there's something new and beautiful. [e] found a couple more pics, here. Check out that crazy rear suspension, too. Apparently no one really knows anything about it other than it's based on a Yamaha SR400, of all things, and built by some crazy japanese folks  
Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 17:48 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 17:41
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