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I don't think Doc Scratch is the same thing as Lil' Cal. He is derived from Cal, but not a direct copy, so the juju-ness was not affected.
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May 21, 2012 07:44
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Constable Lemon posted:Out of everything in Homestuck thus far, UU/uu is the most bewildering to me. When she was first introduced I was certain she was just the A1 equivalent of the Sufferer, (with some gender difference for some reason) but with everything we've seen since, and with the whole Calmasis thing going on with Hussie, I'm not entirely sure what to believe about UU/uu, or where she/he fits in with the A1/A2 timeline. What I (and I think many people) thought most likely at first was that she is - or, at any rate, is meant to seem like she is - from a putative C universe, yet to be created and populated due to Kanaya's future efforts. We'll find out more in time, I guess. Heck, maybe this: Rooreelooo posted:Maybe she needs them to play the game so that they can win and create a new universe that she can rule over. is true and she gets to set up the lovely old-style troll culture she so misses, and UU isn't actually talking about what happened on Alternia at all. I think that's a long shot, though.
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May 21, 2012 07:46
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Bobulus posted:Trying to think of any objects besides Cal that we've seen in the story being moved around a lot that does not invite duplication. Well, the only thing I can think of would be the bunnies/Liv Tyler, but she was destroyed in the creation of the Green Sun(?) And uu's love of games being compared to horror, as well as his first line to Dirk makes me think of that Jigsaw comic Bro taunted Dave with. So uu/his juju is... jigsaw? I don't know.
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May 21, 2012 07:48
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Mazerunner posted:Well, the only thing I can think of would be the bunnies/Liv Tyler, but she was destroyed in the creation of the Green Sun(?) And yet, there exists in the current session a reasonable facsimile of the original bunny. I could see this happening.
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May 21, 2012 07:50
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I think, given that we can infer the UUs have some involvement with Lord English, it could be that the "jujus" are merely things that are part of Lord English in his various incarnations. It's likely Cal AND the cueball were both these special items, given the entwined nature of A2 and B1.
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May 21, 2012 07:55
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And so that would make Harley and Frigglish jujus as well.
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May 21, 2012 08:06
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There's a pretty good chance UU's juju is going to be Terezi's coin, considering the hints she's given about it and also if the "she's from universe C" theory is correct.
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May 21, 2012 08:19
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I dunno, guys. It really seems like if the kids succeeded in successfully making a universe C, it would be a happier place than "troll planet pt 3: This time, everyone except one crazy person dies". I would think a game-winning Universe C wouldn't have whole segments of the troll population wiped out for their blood color. Until new evidence is introduced, I'm going to go with "Earth isn't completely wiped out by Dirk and Roxy entering the game". All the carapaces die, the Condesce leaves to rule Derse, and all that's left on Earth-B2 is one very confused human who thinks he or she is a troll and is also two people. (There is a flaw with this theory, but I'm hesitant to bring it up, because it would be really really insane. If different timeframes on one planet can join the same session... maybe UU/uu aren't in their own seperate session, they join up with the B2-kid session in another mobius reacharound the way the Red and Blue troll teams did. And UU doesn't know it because she's gone to the trouble of not talking to any of the kids post-entry and the Void blackout. For it to be an eight-player session, though, UU/uu would have to count as one person, and one of the four B1 kids would...have to not make it.  )
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May 21, 2012 09:06
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UU kind of throws a wrench in the works, but I still firmly believe that the B2 kids are going to create A1.
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May 21, 2012 09:14
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Bobulus posted:(There is a flaw with this theory, but I'm hesitant to bring it up, because it would be really really insane. If different timeframes on one planet can join the same session... maybe UU/uu aren't in their own seperate session, they join up with the B2-kid session in another mobius reacharound the way the Red and Blue troll teams did. And UU doesn't know it because she's gone to the trouble of not talking to any of the kids post-entry and the Void blackout. For it to be an eight-player session, though, UU/uu would have to count as one person, and one of the four B1 kids would...have to not make it. It'll be John, but John dies all the goddamn time so it won't matter.
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May 21, 2012 09:14
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Bobulus posted:(There is a flaw with this theory, but I'm hesitant to bring it up, because it would be really really insane. If different timeframes on one planet can join the same session... maybe UU/uu aren't in their own seperate session, they join up with the B2-kid session in another mobius reacharound the way the Red and Blue troll teams did. And UU doesn't know it because she's gone to the trouble of not talking to any of the kids post-entry and the Void blackout. For it to be an eight-player session, though, UU/uu would have to count as one person, and one of the four B1 kids would...have to not make it. Well, maybe it's not that bad. The Trolls are on their way to join the B2 session as well (Gamzee is already there) and I really doubt Paradox space didn't account for them. So we have 8 kids and 4 Trolls*, but it's only an 8 player session. Unless a bunch of the Trolls and some of the kids die shortly it looks like the Trolls don't 'count'. Similar deal could be going on with UU/uu? For some reason UU and uu made me think of the Animorph seriers? Where there was these two god-like beings who only contested each other by proxy in a vaguely defined game. ??? I don't know. Also one thing I noticed is that uu recognizes Dirk's Lil'Cal, implies that it's been present in other universes/there are other versions of Cal, and says that it's got 'bad juju'. Theorize away? *Karkat, Terezi, Gamzee, Kanaya, with Aradia and Sollux staying in the Farthest Rim
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May 21, 2012 09:37
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Wait...if Cal is one continuous juju, even more-so than we know... What's the deal with the one Hussie had? We can no longer assume it's just representing the real life one.
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May 21, 2012 09:37
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Bobulus posted:Wait...if Cal is one continuous juju, even more-so than we know... What's the deal with the one Hussie had? We can no longer assume it's just representing the real life one. But then... the real life one  
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May 21, 2012 09:39
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I want to say it's possible that UU and uu come from A2, but it really isn't if they've already heard of the exploits of the kids. Also yeah, think of B2 as an eight-PLANET session rather than an 8-player one, I think. The whole thing's kind of off the rails, really. UU and uu could show up in it, but they might not have their own planet.
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May 21, 2012 10:15
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I'm wondering if that the limeblood power is somewhat a more extreme version of Sollux's bifurcation -- if limebloods had two personalities it would prevent Vriska's caste from mind controlling them or whatever, which appears to be a pretty big deal, considering the Condesce apparently values that ability. Maybe Sollux's bifurcation comes from some sort of limeblood aspect, and a goldblood's power is only psychic shenanigans.
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May 21, 2012 10:34
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It's rare for me to say this, but this pesterlog was just annoying. uu and UU are kind of irritating characters to me. They say very little but take a long time to say it, and usually in the least interesting way possible.
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May 21, 2012 10:46
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Captain Oblivious posted:It's rare for me to say this, but this pesterlog was just annoying. uu and UU are kind of irritating characters to me. They say very little but take a long time to say it, and usually in the least interesting way possible. I mean I'd like to say bearing that mind helps, but uh there's a reason those cliches are reviled - because they're stupid and boring.
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May 21, 2012 10:50
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I read "lime green" in close proximity to "extremely powerful abilities." Green blood, green sun: what is the connection? In A2, the green-blooded caste made up the Threshecutioners, who used sickles.
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May 21, 2012 11:28
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Mazerunner posted:Also one thing I noticed is that uu recognizes Dirk's Lil'Cal, implies that it's been present in other universes/there are other versions of Cal, and says that it's got 'bad juju'. Not quite. uu says that Cal is a terrible, terrible juju, but that Dirk's instantiation of Cal seems "dead", somehow, as if it may not be the Cal. Why is this? Well, as a juju, Cal cannot be duplicated. So when the Scratch bifurcated our timeline, and there were suddenly two meteors carrying Dirk and Lil' Cal, the actual malevolent juju Cal "chose" to "inhabit" Beta Dirk's doll, and Alpha Dirk was left with sort of an empty Cal-shaped vessel.
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May 21, 2012 11:51
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Literally Sharks posted:the actual malevolent juju Cal "chose" to "inhabit" Beta Dirk's doll, and Alpha Dirk was left with sort of an empty Cal-shaped vessel. I wasn't aware that we had ever seen a beta timeline version of the B2 kids... I must have missed that entirely. When did that happen? I thought we had only seen offshoot timeline fuckery with the a2 trolls and the b1 kids. What circumstances are the offshoot dirk under?
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May 21, 2012 12:03
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Rooreelooo posted:I wasn't aware that we had ever seen a beta timeline version of the B2 kids... I must have missed that entirely. When did that happen? I thought we had only seen offshoot timeline fuckery with the a2 trolls and the b1 kids. What circumstances are the offshoot dirk under? Confusing terminology. He meant, respectively, B1 Dirk (where the kids play "Sburb Beta") and B2 Dirk (where the kids play "Sburb Alpha").
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May 21, 2012 12:04
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Tumblr seems to use Alpha for B2, since Sburb is in alpha there, but that's dumb because reasons.
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May 21, 2012 13:01
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I find UU fascinating because we just know so little about her. Her logs are always interesting to me because they shed so tantalizingly little light on her situation, or give some new background information about SBURB. The biggest mystery is probably just where the hell are they? They can't be in A1 because it's pretty doubtful the A1 trolls would have wiped out an entire caste in their more peaceful, sane society. They can't be in A2 because they know about the game and the kids' adventures, which the other A2 trolls clearly didn't. They can't be in B2 because we know the Condesce failed to recreate trolls. And it's really unlikely that a Universe C made by the kids and trolls would have the same blood caste system and a genocide. I guess it's possible they're on B2 Earth, and just a human pretending to be a troll. That would be pretty fitting, but it seems unlikely with the lime blood super power thing. I suppose Universe C could spiral horribly out of control billions of years after creation, but that's a pretty depressing thought. Maybe the theory that the Condesce takes over their universe is true, but that's a horribly depressing idea too. So we really just know nothing about UU/uu. They've been a genuine mystery since their introduction, and I'm really looking forward to the eventual reveal.
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May 21, 2012 13:17
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Bongo Bill posted:I read "lime green" in close proximity to "extremely powerful abilities." Green blood, green sun: what is the connection? I think the Threshecutioners were sort of a mixed group, since the whole Thresh Prince thing was about limeblood Troll Will Smith showing up the bluebloods in it with him. But that raises more questions, since it seems like on Alternia limebloods weren't anything remarkable or very special. Karkat would've been lime except he's a mutant... If uu/UU are from the Condesce's experiments or a C universe they have to be different somehow. Maybe they did get mixed up with Green Sun powers.
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May 21, 2012 13:22
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Comedy option: uu/UU is the Condesce, who's descended into delusion and disassociated identity disorder over the lonely years of her service. ...wait. That's not funny at all 
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May 21, 2012 13:23
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Brass Key posted:But that raises more questions, since it seems like on Alternia limebloods weren't anything remarkable or very special. Karkat would've been lime except he's a mutant... This doesn't mean as much as I think you think it does. Karkat having lime blood would complete the spectrum, yes, but remember that: a) The only place in A2 Alternia we saw lime blood was way in the past, splashed on the wall of a Subjuggulator. So they could have been extinct for a while. b) Karkat gets him red blood from the Sufferer, who also has red blood (or vice versa, depending on how the ectobiology happened), but even if they'd both had lime blood, it doesn't mean anything about Alternia, because, like the kids, their genetics are completely separate from the genetics of the rest of the population, paradox clones and all that. So Karkat could've easily had a genetic trait that did not exist anywhere else in his time.
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May 21, 2012 13:41
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Captain Oblivious posted:It's rare for me to say this, but this pesterlog was just annoying. uu and UU are kind of irritating characters to me. They say very little but take a long time to say it, and usually in the least interesting way possible. I'm with you on this. I've never liked uu, and UU was OK but kinda overdone, in a trying-too-hard-to-be-menacing sort of way. I just really do not care at all about either of them and would rather they weren't in the story, but ah well. They're already here! It's interesting Jane's world has no monsters, and presumably none of the others in this session will either. I completely forgot about that; I thought there would be imps, but just unprototyped ones. Never expected a void session to be entirely uninitiated.
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May 21, 2012 14:14
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Starmaker posted:I find UU fascinating because we just know so little about her.
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May 21, 2012 15:13
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creationist believer posted:Red Miles, Black Inches, Yellow Yards... Green feet? Blue Leagues? Fuchsia furlongs? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPnBSBslv2o&t=15s Blah, can't link youtube now with a timestamp (&t=15) or am I missing something? edit2: ahh, so it's supposed to auto-add it as start="15" and did not. glug fucked around with this message at 15:21 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 15:18
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Waffnuffly posted:I'm with you on this. I've never liked uu, and UU was OK but kinda overdone, in a trying-too-hard-to-be-menacing sort of way. I just really do not care at all about either of them and would rather they weren't in the story, but ah well. They're already here!
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May 21, 2012 15:28
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I feel like I've missed something significant, reading the last page or two - is there a reason everyone suspected the particular shades of red & green revealed there, and some hidden significance to them?
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May 21, 2012 15:41
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Dexanth posted:I feel like I've missed something significant, reading the last page or two - is there a reason everyone suspected the particular shades of red & green revealed there, and some hidden significance to them? Lime Green is where Karkat would be in the hemospectrum if he didn't have red blood. I forget what this is based on, but basically there's lime blood in a flashback on the Grand Highliblood's walls and also I think Hussie confirmed that it was the only 'missing' blood color. This particular shade of red is the same as Karkat's and The Sufferer's. Everyone suspected both of them because UU and uu type in gray, like Karkat does, so it must either be the hidden color we know (Karkat's red) or a hidden color we haven't seen yet (the up-till-now missing lime green).
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May 21, 2012 15:45
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Dexanth posted:I feel like I've missed something significant, reading the last page or two - is there a reason everyone suspected the particular shades of red & green revealed there, and some hidden significance to them? 
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May 21, 2012 15:58
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Fortis posted:Lime Green is where Karkat would be in the hemospectrum if he didn't have red blood. I forget what this is based on, but basically there's lime blood in a flashback on the Grand Highliblood's walls and also I think Hussie confirmed that it was the only 'missing' blood color. Also, UU's symbol is a grey and lime green caduceus, and uu's symbol is a grey u with a candy red slash through it. And they wear red cufflinks and type at a console with a lime green caduceus symbol over it.
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May 21, 2012 16:01
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FronzelNeekburm posted:Gotta say, I agree with the people expressing frustration, mainly because they're just yet another set of kids to keep track of, and the longer UU/uu don't really get fleshed out, the more time they eat up in the story that could be spent, say, having that treehouse makeout session or actually getting the characters we know and like into B2. I've had shades of the same feelings about the B2 kids, and they actually get screen time. Yeah I know how you feel. I can really only keep track of four characters, maybe five at the most. There must be, like, nearly 15 characters in this thing? And he just keeps adding more! Who's this Roxy fellow? Seriously, though, uu/UU are the only genuine mystery we have. After Cascade tied up a whole swash of loose plot ends, almost every question we had left was just a matter of details. We know almost nothing about uu/UU. I don't think they're drawn out or boring, they're the simmering mystery behind everything at the moment, and in many ways they propel reader interest. And we know from Calmasis that they will be very important to the plot, and we have absolutely no idea how! They're a compelling mystery with huge consequences for the story. I just don't understand how anyone could find them tedious or dull. I scrape every one of their logs trying to figure out what the hell is going on.
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May 21, 2012 16:39
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Starmaker posted:Seriously, though, uu/UU are the only genuine mystery we have. After Cascade tied up a whole swash of loose plot ends, almost every question we had left was just a matter of details. We know almost nothing about uu/UU. I don't think they're drawn out or boring, they're the simmering mystery behind everything at the moment, and in many ways they propel reader interest. And we know from Calmasis that they will be very important to the plot, and we have absolutely no idea how! They're a compelling mystery with huge consequences for the story. I just don't understand how anyone could find them tedious or dull. I scrape every one of their logs trying to figure out what the hell is going on. They do fill a very useful, possibly even necessary role in the story--like you say, without them there wouldn't be much left for the players to do before the endgame. Still not terribly interested in them though; mostly their conversations only serve to reveal bits about them that were already inferred. Would have much preferred if they stayed more of a lurking enigma instead of popping up every few pages to say cheerio old chaps oh i say i am so rather terribly mysterious what what!!!
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May 21, 2012 16:46
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I kind of get the feeling people have been jaded by the plethora of long running series like Lost or BSG that love to bring up all these mysteries and questions and then when its time for the conclusion the answers are just sort of cobbled together in a really unsatisfying way. The one thing I really love about Homestuck is that Hussie is a legitimately good storyteller and when its time for a payoff it is goddamn amazing (see: Cascade). On a side note I've been doing a reread and have remembered how utterly in love with the "CLICK THE PANELS" segment I am. It just so melancholy and somber and you're getting slammed with revelations in just about every one but it somehow doesn't feel like an infodump and the images are loving gorgeous.
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May 21, 2012 16:51
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Literally Sharks posted:Not quite. uu says that Cal is a terrible, terrible juju, but that Dirk's instantiation of Cal seems "dead", somehow, as if it may not be the Cal. Woops, that's what I meant I just phrased it poorly. Although, since Lil'Cal is the ecto-basis for Doc Scratch and Lord English, I think that's probably where the 'bad juju' comes from- Cal's presence in a universe means that DS/LE have a source to replicate themselves into it. Cal's also just been almost malevolent I guess as well. Hussie also has a Cal, and then LE got all up in his poo poo and I don't think that's a coincidence now? However, Dirk's Cal is 'dead' and lacks that juju- there's also a line by Doc Scratch, when he's telling the tale of the handmaiden and the condesce where he says something about the Condesce carrying out LE's will in the places he can't reach, which seems to be B1 and B2. So Dirk's Cal has no juju because it's a duplication, but also because the source of it's badness is not applicable here. Or vice versa, or maybe those are the same thing!
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May 21, 2012 16:59
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Fortis posted:Lime Green is where Karkat would be in the hemospectrum if he didn't have red blood. I forget what this is based on, but basically there's lime blood in a flashback on the Grand Highliblood's walls and also I think Hussie confirmed that it was the only 'missing' blood color. Also, if you look at the RGB encoding of the colors, they're all equidistant to the next one in the sequence, with a particular shade of lime missing in between Nepeta's olive and Kanaya's jade. This shade has the same value as the gray Karkat uses (which is, itself, halfway between the shades of gray used by UU and uu). I'm pretty sure that's all true.
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May 21, 2012 17:09
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YggiDee posted:I don't really see it happening, I am pretty sure her engineered psychic powers would be able to control him. So even with Tavros/Vriska's abilities going full tilt, she might not be able to control Bec Noir. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
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