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Cheap Diner Coffee posted:I've finally been called out. "Devil Survivor 2 is a Strategy RPG for the Nintendo DS. The game takes place over seven days in a demon infested You could also add in a bit about it having a worse storyline, a greater variety of playable characters, and fewer escort missions, I guess. TurnipFritter fucked around with this message at 05:14 on May 20, 2012 |
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May 20, 2012 05:12
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Yeah, I need to update some things. (and maybe make that P3/4 image less terrible).
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Throw in as much subjectivity as possible in order to make sure new players go in with the same stupid biases we have.
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May 20, 2012 20:12
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Will no one think of the sanctity of megathread OPs? 
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May 20, 2012 20:38
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The OP is pretty bad, it doesn't even have any shipping charts.
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May 20, 2012 21:15
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speaking of charts, there was a big picture chart that had all the characters from the persona games (and maybe some others) that had them organized by height. Anyone have that picture?
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May 20, 2012 21:17
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Cityinthesea posted:speaking of charts, there was a big picture chart that had all the characters from the persona games (and maybe some others) that had them organized by height. Anyone have that picture? This one? Doesn't have Persona 1 though, other than the people who are also in P2. Why does everyone forget about P1!   I prefer organizing by arcana, though. 
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May 20, 2012 21:22
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Technique posted:Why does everyone forget about P1! Because Persona 1 sucks. Its seriously painful to play compared to 2, 3 and 4
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May 20, 2012 22:58
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Technique posted:Why does everyone forget about P1! Wasn't Persona 1 really different compared to the later ones? They probably focussed on the later ones cause they're more in line with the modern perception of the Persona series.
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May 20, 2012 23:21
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What's with the random items in everyone's hands? 
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May 20, 2012 23:46
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Dr Pepper posted:Because Persona 1 sucks. Its seriously painful to play compared to 2, 3 and 4 Nuh uh. P1 good game. P1 good game!
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May 20, 2012 23:52
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PunkBoy posted:What's with the random items in everyone's hands? I think it's trying to suggest something about the duality of man, sir.
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May 20, 2012 23:59
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oscarthewilde posted:Wasn't Persona 1 really different compared to the later ones? They probably focussed on the later ones cause they're more in line with the modern perception of the Persona series. 1 and 2 are more alike than 2 and 3/4, just 2 is better in pretty much every possible way. It's much more of a conventional JRPG than Persona 3/4 are, and doesn't have S Links or a calendar or any of that stuff. It's basically a really good Final Fantasy game with persona fusing in place of espers or materia.
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May 21, 2012 00:00
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Also there are two Persona 1 characters as they appear in Persona 2 on there.
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May 21, 2012 00:51
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I thought Teddie was a lot shorter than that. He always looked tiny.
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May 21, 2012 01:07
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Zombies' Downfall posted:1 and 2 are more alike than 2 and 3/4, just 2 is better in pretty much every possible way. It's much more of a conventional JRPG than Persona 3/4 are, and doesn't have S Links or a calendar or any of that stuff. It's basically a really good Final Fantasy game with persona fusing in place of espers or materia. Not in EVERY way. They toned down Reiji's badassery when he appeared in P2.  I mean, he's still badass, but not as much. Also, P1 has a better soundtrack. (both the original and the PSP ver.)
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May 21, 2012 02:11
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How different are P1 and P2 from P3 and P4? I've been thinking of buying them on the PSP.
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May 21, 2012 02:24
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Lucinice posted:How different are P1 and P2 from P3 and P4? I've been thinking of buying them on the PSP. Very very much. No S-links, no calendars, more traditional dungeon crawley RPGs. Better plots, better characters. Better battle system too.
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May 21, 2012 02:27
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Technique posted:Very very much. No S-links, no calendars, more traditional dungeon crawley RPGs. Better plots, better characters. Better battle system too. Completely disagree on that last one. In the case of P1 the battle system is slow and horrible and grinding for cards will you want to rip your hair out, in the case of P2 its just about spamming fusion spells. Not that much different than exploiting weaknesses in 3 but at leas there was a little persona variety there, not much reason to use anything but your starter personas in 2.
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May 21, 2012 04:13
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I like the first Persona for two main reasons: 1) Makes Persona 2 into better games as you can see the reappearing characters change over time. See the delinquents grow up into camerawomen and businessmen, etc. 2) Charm bullets. You don't even need personae, you got guns that make the enemy love you and kill each other for you!
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May 21, 2012 05:22
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Every time someone calls the P1 battle system slow, i wonder if they just never tried activating the skip feature.
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May 21, 2012 13:25
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TurnipFritter posted:"Devil Survivor 2 is a Strategy RPG for the Nintendo DS. The game takes place over seven days in a demon infested I found DS2 to be a better game overall. The storyline for DS was poo poo reincarnated Cain/Abelas well. The bosses in DS2 opened the door for future games with character design and more Atlus dickery. The playable characters in DS2 do not have the stupid stat distribution. The difficulty is ramped up and demon selection is better. I enjoyed it far more than DS or DS:O.
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May 21, 2012 13:32
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Persona 1 was able to somehow combine a convoluted, cumbersome, and slow (at least on the PS1) battle system with an extremely high encounter rate and long, confusing, monotonous dungeons. It was just about the perfect storm of bad JRPG gameplay. Then you factor in the "so bad it stops being funny" localization and the awful persona system and difficulty curve (it's great fun when you suddenly encounter groups of enemies that can one-shot you no matter what level you are unless you fused a very specific kind of persona). The story is salvageable, which is kind of sad. With a proper remake, like giving it P4's battle and persona systems, it would be a solid entry in the franchise.
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May 21, 2012 13:52
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But the battle system in P3/4 is pretty lovely! It's Babby's First Press Turn System, without very much depth beyond HIT THE WEAKNESS, and it's slow as gently caress. And the Persona systems in P1/2 are miles better than P3/4, if only because you can actually choose Personas for ALL your team members. And i'm not talking about the PS1 version, but the remake, so some of your points aren't really valid there either.
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May 21, 2012 13:56
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I'd rather have an easy battle system than one that is cumbersome for the sake of "challenge". Believe me, if I could get a real Press Turn Persona, I'd be in heaven. It's why I loved Nocturne's gameplay so much. But P1 is not Nocturne, it's not really anything at all actually. Clearly it was so popular, they decided to abandon it entirely for all MegaTen games afterwards. Sometimes there's a point where increased challenge is gained at the expense of convenience that just becomes too much to make it worth it, and I absolutely believe that that line is crossed with P1 and thus P3/P4 would be better alternatives even if they themselves are not "perfect". It's like arguing that Devil Survivor's fusion system makes it "too easy" and thus Nocturne/P3/P4's are better. It's possible to make a good balance between being intuitive/convenient and too challenging (though at that point I'd argue it's not so much "challenging" as it is "intentionally dumb to make your game playing experience more annoying"). E: The PS1 version is the one I played, and thus the version I am reviewing. It's good that they fixed most of the localization issues in the remake, but without a gameplay overhaul all of the skip features in the world aren't going to make it passable. Maybe it goes from a straight F to a C-, so yay? Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 14:17 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 14:06
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Technique posted:Every time someone calls the P1 battle system slow, i wonder if they just never tried activating the skip feature. Even with the skip feature it is still extremely slow and generally uninteresting. It's just an awkward system that has aged badly and there's not a lot that can change that outside of a full-on remake. Nate RFB posted:It's like arguing that Devil Survivor's fusion system makes it "too easy" and thus Nocturne/P3/P4's are better. It's possible to make a good balance between being intuitive/convenient and too challenging (though at that point I'd argue it's not so much "challenging" as it is "intentionally dumb to make your game playing experience more annoying"). My problem with Devil Survivor's fusion system is that there are no limitations. There's no reason NOT to put Holy Dance or whatever on every single monster and pass it along to every successive monster for eternity. There's no real though put into monster "breeding" because of it. I agree that randomization isn't the best move, but neither is being completely unrestrained. I'd rather they add limitations to what a monster can learn. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 14:19 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 14:15
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Technique posted:But the battle system in P3/4 is pretty lovely! It's Babby's First Press Turn System, without very much depth beyond HIT THE WEAKNESS, and it's slow as gently caress. And the Persona systems in P1/2 are miles better than P3/4, if only because you can actually choose Personas for ALL your team members. And i'm not talking about the PS1 version, but the remake, so some of your points aren't really valid there either.
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May 21, 2012 14:18
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ImpAtom posted:My problem with Devil Survivor's fusion system is that there are no limitations. There's no reason NOT to put Holy Dance or whatever on every single monster and pass it along to every successive monster for eternity. There's no real though put into monster "breeding" because of it. I agree that randomization isn't the best move, but neither is being completely unrestrained. I'd rather they add limitations to what a monster can learn. In my opinion at least, I would take the game breaking fusion system over the "re-try the fusion for 30+ minutes" method. Maybe it makes it too easy, I guess. I honestly don't care all that much when placed against the alternative.
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May 21, 2012 14:22
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I like P3's battle system v v
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May 21, 2012 14:24
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Nate RFB posted:That should be fine. Maybe make demons/personas with hard slots, where they can't forget/replace certain moves. Or some moves which can't transfer over because they are too game breaking. Or maybe there's an incompatibility, like an Agi spell on an Ice Demon. There should be ways to bridge the gap from "too easy" and "too cumbersome." I don't think we should just throw up our hands and say it has to be one or the other. Well, at very least it'd be nice if it wasn't so trivial to obliterate a demon's weaknesses. By the end of DS2 I literally did not have a single demon who wasn't at minimum strong to and usually completely immune/absorbing/reflect every element. That, more than anything, makes it boring, especially since the only way the game can compensate is "give everything Almighty" which is dull.
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May 21, 2012 14:31
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P1 (especially the portable version that fixes the big complaints) and 2 are awesome screw the haters 
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May 21, 2012 14:40
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Nate RFB posted:That should be fine. Maybe make demons/personas with hard slots, where they can't forget/replace certain moves. Or some moves which can't transfer over because they are too game breaking. Or maybe there's an incompatibility, like an Agi spell on an Ice Demon. There should be ways to bridge the gap from "too easy" and "too cumbersome." I don't think we should just throw up our hands and say it has to be one or the other. Small nitpick here: in Devil Survivor 2 (and presumably DS1, it's been a while since I played that) you can't replace existing skills without a fusion add-on that removes skills. ImpAtom posted:Well, at very least it'd be nice if it wasn't so trivial to obliterate a demon's weaknesses. By the end of DS2 I literally did not have a single demon who wasn't at minimum strong to and usually completely immune/absorbing/reflect every element. That, more than anything, makes it boring, especially since the only way the game can compensate is "give everything Almighty" which is dull. Or the way DS2 handled it, which is "give bosses the ability to attack the entire map."
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May 21, 2012 14:51
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Here's the blurb I added to the OP: "Released in 2012 for the Nintendo DS, Devil Survivor 2 kept the general framework of Devil Survivor and added several gameplay features, some of which were seen in DS: Overclocked. These include a Demon Compendium, an increased number of both demons and playable characters, and the Fate System. The Fate System can be seen as a more reactive version of Persona 3 and 4's Social Link system, in that characters will respond more in reaction to/about the issues at hand in the main plot. Rather than having ranks 1 through 10, other controllable characters have ranks 0-5. Ranks 1 through 5 each introduce a skill that can be used in combat. General descriptions of these skill types can be seen here. Free battles have been reduced in number, and, as with the previous game, characters will die in the story if certain events aren’t completed. The story has a similar premise, but it has generally been described as having a more wacky or ridiculous plot." The OP itself could use a bit of work (adding more resources, fleshing out some descriptions). Some of it may have to wait until after finals though, as I'm A Lazy Person. Cheap Diner Coffee fucked around with this message at 16:44 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 16:37
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Radish posted:P1 (especially the portable version that fixes the big complaints) and 2 are awesome screw the haters No it doesn't, the system is still poo poo even with the skip feature and you can still get one shotted. Even better, you may yourself in a position where you can't progress because things are simply to powerful and for extra poo poo points you can't negotiate with anything either because they are all to drat strong. That's not a challenge, that's just lovely gaming design. 2 has the best story of them all and that's about it.
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May 21, 2012 17:27
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So wait, your argument is that it is too hard? If there is one thing P1 isn't, it's hard. Do you suck a hundred asses or something?
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May 21, 2012 17:30
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Alteisen posted:2 has the best story of them all and that's about it. I was pumped about P2 for half the game. The battle system really needs some work. Stopped playing after getting to the temples. I couldn't take it anymore.
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May 21, 2012 17:34
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Alteisen posted:No it doesn't, the system is still poo poo even with the skip feature and you can still get one shotted. P1 and P2 Innocent Sin are actually really easy so I'm not sure how you are getting yourself stuck anywhere or one shot, especially since unlike 3 and 4 your entire party has to die.
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May 21, 2012 17:40
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Pierce posted:I was pumped about P2 for half the game. The battle system really needs some work. Stopped playing after getting to the temples. I couldn't take it anymore. Try again, because you're very very close to done and the ending is pretty fantastic.
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May 21, 2012 17:43
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The temples are easily the low part of P2, but at that point it's well worth persevering and powering through.
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May 21, 2012 17:44
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I admit the Temples are the worst section of Innocent Sin since they felt like filler for the most part. However they were also where the character's shadows show up at the end to be huge dicks so they end up being a wash.
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May 21, 2012 17:44
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Cityinthesea posted:Try again, because you're very very close to done and the ending is pretty fantastic. I'll pick it back up. It just felt like kick the can after the Masked Circle reunited and then the temples popped up.
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May 21, 2012 17:45
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