|
Nate RFB posted:I'm not entirely sure this would be the case. The only (I think?) case we have of Vriska controlling an agent was when she was controlling CD...to show something to DD, so that he could make Bec. Except why do that when she could have just controlled DD directly? I think agents, just like trolls, have a variety of levels of psychic vulnerability. So more intense/assertive/aggressive ones like Jack and DD might not be so easily controlled in the same way Terezi could not be controlled. I think YggiDee meant that Tavros' animal-control/-persuasion powers would work on the Bec portion of him (remember, we've already seen Tavros successfully use said powers on Bec), which seems to be capable of suppressing the Jack Noir portion, given his behaviour around Jade hasn't involved any stabs, or showing thereof.
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 17:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 13:06 |
|
|
I'm not sure it works like that, though who knows. If that were the case you'd think the trolls would've been sitting pretty from the beginning if they could have had Tavros control Bec Noir to that degree rather than running for their lives. Also remember that the plan (from both Tavros and Jade) was never to control Jack directly, but rather control Bec/Becsprite to fight him.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 17:39
|
|
|
Starmaker posted:I guess it's possible they're on B2 Earth, and just a human pretending to be a troll. That would be pretty fitting, but it seems unlikely with the lime blood super power thing. I suppose Universe C could spiral horribly out of control billions of years after creation, but that's a pretty depressing thought. Maybe the theory that the Condesce takes over their universe is true, but that's a horribly depressing idea too. It's possible that UU is a surviving test subject from the Troll Empress' attempts at trying to make humans have different colored blood. The information UU has is actually from old archives the Empress had about the A2 trolls or another source about A2. Because UU is nuts, they genuinely believes that they're an A2 troll. UU either plays Sburb to recreate A1 and trap LE in a time loop, or creates Universe C. If UU recreates A1, Kanaya and friends make Universe C, which has no LE interference. If UU makes Universe C, then Kanaya makes A1 and traps LE in a time loop. Either way, LE is quarantined from the rest of the universes.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 17:55
|
|
|
What's this? Lime and red, chained to their symbols, sharing the same body? Somehow I get the feeling this image is more important than we realize... Anyway, I'm thinking I'm missing something since nobody is talking about how there's only one planet in the null session. I mean, the other ones can't all be hidden behind Skaia this time. My pet theory at the moment is that Jakes is behind Skaia, and that's it. Roxy and Dirk will be playing in a different session.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 17:57
|
|
|
I figure that - if it means anything - it's evidence in favor of the (not new) idea that the Lands don't exist in the Incipisphere until the corresponding players enter, at which point they pop into existence fully formed with a complete history, sort of like loading a level in a normal video game.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 18:02
|
|
|
SatansBestBuddy posted:What's this? Lime and red, chained to their symbols, sharing the same body? Somehow I get the feeling this image is more important than we realize... Just a nitpick, but the B2 kids are in a Void Session. The Null Session is the B1 kids' game.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 18:02
|
|
|
SatansBestBuddy posted:What's this? Lime and red, chained to their symbols, sharing the same body? Somehow I get the feeling this image is more important than we realize... I dunno, the stuff with the lights in Jane's land mentions Roxy and Dirk and it's got their colours and symbols and everything. Dirk/Auto Responder is also acting as server for Jane. It'd just be weird and unweildy to split them again in that way. More like the planets just show up fully formed when neaded, like what Hamiltonian Bicycle said.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 18:18
|
|
|
Gabriel Pope posted:They do fill a very useful, possibly even necessary role in the story--like you say, without them there wouldn't be much left for the players to do before the endgame. Still not terribly interested in them though; mostly their conversations only serve to reveal bits about them that were already inferred. Would have much preferred if they stayed more of a lurking enigma instead of popping up every few pages to say cheerio old chaps oh i say i am so rather terribly mysterious what what!!! This is pretty much my thoughts on them. Being titanic super special mary sue parodies with wildly different and slightly grating personalities wouldn't be that bad, but it really feels like we've been given just a bit too much of them for the time being. Especially given the lime one having so many logs going on and on at length about either A: Things we more or less already knew, or B: Things we may not have entirely needed to know, or at least in having them way overexplained. And in my case, an added C: Telling us things which I would have been happier to remain in the dark about. The things about Sburb that UU told us about were a touch disappointing, since while we were getting new information about the game, which we were all clamoring for, it also felt like it detracted a bit from the mutable nature we had previously come to assume. Suddenly, the roles and classes went from things which seemed as if they could have multiple valid and imaginative interpretations which one could derive a variety of concepts from, to much more specialized and regimented things which sort of locked in what could be made of them. Things like set-in-stone roles and positions, active and passive designations, gender-locked classes, and the like felt like it sort of took some of the imagination and magic out of it. I also had a similar problem with Aranea and Doc Scratch, in also being all-knowing and overly-rambling characters who went on at length about things that may not have mattered or might have been more interesting not being elaborated on. It was sad enough to learn that the Troll's rather malevolent but socially-intriguing society was only a product of outside interference, but Aranea's explanation of how it was a quirky hugs-and-kisses utopia before said interference made it feel downright shallow and ham-handed. I guess the tl;dr of it is "UU/uu would fascinate me more and annoy me less if they were used much more sparingly".
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 18:49
|
|
|
It seems to me like the biggest single issue with Act 6 is how much time is being spent on establishing what the new group of kids know about their situation. It'd be problematic to have us learn along with them because we already knew a lot of it.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 19:04
|
|
|
Midnight Raider posted:The things about Sburb that UU told us about were a touch disappointing, since while we were getting new information about the game, which we were all clamoring for, it also felt like it detracted a bit from the mutable nature we had previously come to assume. Suddenly, the roles and classes went from things which seemed as if they could have multiple valid and imaginative interpretations which one could derive a variety of concepts from, to much more specialized and regimented things which sort of locked in what could be made of them. Things like set-in-stone roles and positions, active and passive designations, gender-locked classes, and the like felt like it sort of took some of the imagination and magic out of it. Only if you're assuming UU is a reliable narrator.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 19:22
|
|
|
quote:UU: his passion for games transcends any hUman Understanding of love. Hello Jane. I'd like to play a game. I foresee silly Saw references. I'm enjoying where this is going even if uu/UU haven't won me over as characters yet, because the speculation is fascinating. I kind of missed not knowing what the gently caress was going on.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 21:40
|
|
|
There has to be a reason, more than just explaining game mechanics to the B2 kids, for the U's to be in the story. Between that, the story's love of creation myths, and the fact that UU implies there's a good reason we can't know her name, signs point to the U's being the origins for some known quantity in the series. But, who/what? Lord English? The A1 session? Sburb itself? The horrorterrors? None of these seem to quite fit. I'm basically expecting the U session to get worse and worse "off camera" and for UU and uu to switch their views on the kids. Bobulus fucked around with this message at 21:44 on May 21, 2012 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 21:40
|
|
|
Bobulus posted:There has to be a reason, more than just explaining game mechanics to the B2 kids, for the U's to be in the story. Between that, the story's love of creation myths, and the fact that UU implies there's a good reason we can't know her name, signs point to the U's being the origins for some known quantity in the series. But, who/what? The Calmasis stuff is very confusing, but it seems to imply a connection to Lord English. I'm really leaning towards the jujus or whatever being halves to an incarnation of LE like Cal and the Cueball are.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 21:57
|
|
|
 Interesting things to note about this picture, The symbols and colours are switched (I.E. uu is keeping the red leg chained, vice versa) and the red side (UU) is holding the gun!
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 21:58
|
|
|
Starmaker posted:They can't be in A2 because they know about the game and the kids' adventures, which the other A2 trolls clearly didn't. Kanaya knew about Rose and had read her gameFAQ. I'm not saying they are in A2, but it's not an impossible idea.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 23:28
|
|
|
Here's another wacky UU/uu theory from the liveblogs: So when Karkat was talking to John about ectobiology, he said quote:CG: IF IT'S A MALFORMED CLONE, IT'S JUST A MEANINGLESS MUTANT THAT HAS NO BEARING ON THE STABLE LOOP CONTINUUM And this jives with what we've seen. But: A) Just because an ectobiology creation is a mutant does not prevent it from having a role in the story. Look at Vodka Mutini, a mutant copy of Jaspers, who went back in time with Roxy and, in the B1 timeline, could easily have become the normal-biology parent for Jaspers. B) How does Karkat know that you can create "meaningless" mutants with the equipment. When he was being the sessions ectobiologist, after creating the trolls and the ancestors, did he...fiddle with the controls? Karkat has always had a huge inferiority complex about his blood color. It's a bit of a stretch, but you could sort of see him trying to change his own history by trying to make a Karkat grub that had "normal" blood and loving it up and making some weird, glitchy, half-red, half-green -blooded mutant. And then chucking it onto an asteroid to get rid of it, and it lands on A2-Alternia in the timeframe between the Vast Glub (which killed all the trolls) and the time, hundreds of years later, when all the exiles (and the Handmaiden) show up.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2012 23:33
|
|
|
What page is this from?
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 00:02
|
|
|
http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006761 It's from when Dirk was telling Jake all about what happened in the future, with this brief shot accompanying the as-brief mention of Complacency of the Learned.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 00:05
|
|
|
Midnight Raider posted:The things about Sburb that UU told us about were a touch disappointing, since while we were getting new information about the game, which we were all clamoring for, it also felt like it detracted a bit from the mutable nature we had previously come to assume. I've always just interpreted that stuff as Hussie having writer's block that day, so here have some stuff already figured out behind that scenes that has no real bearing on the plot and probably won't go anywhere but whatever, better to have some worldbuilding than to rush into the rest of the plot when it's only half figured out what the next step will be. Actually I chalk a lot of the pacing problems of Homestuck with Hussie occasionally having writer's block. You just can't churn out a great story day in, day out without having an off day where you have no idea what to do with it for now, so hey switch viewpoints to somebody else for a bit so you can have some breathing room.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 01:22
|
|
|
SatansBestBuddy posted:I've always just interpreted that stuff as Hussie having writer's block that day, so here have some stuff already figured out behind that scenes that has no real bearing on the plot and probably won't go anywhere but whatever, better to have some worldbuilding than to rush into the rest of the plot when it's only half figured out what the next step will be. Hussie's come out and said that this is pretty much what happens, yeah. I thought the filler type pesterlogs in previous chapters were a lot more interesting than what we've gotten lately, though.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 01:42
|
|
|
He's also become much more willing to just say "hey, nothing here for a couple days, peace" flat-out in Act 6 than I personally have ever seen him. Maybe that's a good thing? I dunno.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 02:12
|
|
|
His chatlog heavy updates are also much slower than action heavy ones. So either another huge chatlog is coming or... more flash.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 02:19
|
|
|
This isn't really my bet, but if UU/uu and the B2 kids are, surprise, sharing a session, then all those black stormclouds on UU's Skaia might just be Roxy voiding out the session and making all the predictive clouds black. But it doesn't really make sense, because we'd have seen UU's tower on Prospit and stuff.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 02:24
|
|
|
VJeff posted:He's also become much more willing to just say "hey, nothing here for a couple days, peace" flat-out in Act 6 than I personally have ever seen him. Maybe that's a good thing? I dunno. I think this is a constraint of where the story is at right now--one of the luxuries afforded to him by having a million characters (most of whom were never particularly important) was that if he needed a couple days to work out how to progress a story thread he could put everything on pause, pull up a couple of secondary characters, and bounce them off of each other in a pesterlog for a while. Which, again, made the previous acts a bit more entertaining to follow but at a cost of bloating the story a bit; once all is said and done it will be interesting to see if the flow winds up any better in Act 6 as a result.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 02:40
|
|
|
I've thought for a while now that Act 6's pacing is leagues better than Act 5's all around. I'd rather have it go slowly now and again than return to the utter clusterfuck Act 5 became. There are slow moments, but when things are moving I feel more interested in them than I had been whenever he tried moving the plot in Act 5. I think what keeps this a bit more interesting in Act 6 is that all the conversations feel "important" in some way now. A lot of what UU says isn't terribly interesting, but it's laden with clues to pour over, so it doesn't feel fillery. Act 5 had a lot of moments that didn't really feel "worth it".
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 03:04
|
|
|
Eox posted:
I took it more as the symbols being a representation of how the two are keeping each other in check. That would have it read such that the aggressive/red side, i.e. uu, was kept from becoming _too_ aggressive by UU's influence (symbolized by that side being shackled by UU's symbol). And vice versa for the passive/green side, representing uu's influence preventing UU from being entirely passive (symbolized by that side being shackled by uu's symbol).
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 04:08
|
|
|
Hello BSS. Let's play a game. Also, I guess uu enjoys requesting pornographic art.  Too bad he never got to see the glory of the Plushrump...
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 06:08
|
|
|
Strongylocentrotus posted:Hello BSS. Let's play a game. Now that the nature of the link between UU and uu is being more firmly hinted at, it's vaguely disturbing to think of this aggressively perverted and demanding douche being the other side of her coin. Like, I can totally see this guy as UU's id.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 06:12
|
|
|
nerdbot posted:I've thought for a while now that Act 6's pacing is leagues better than Act 5's all around. I'd rather have it go slowly now and again than return to the utter clusterfuck Act 5 became. Yeah, this is pretty much my feelings on things, too. I think a lot of peoples' problems with this act is the piling on of exposition necessary to get the B2 kids up to speed. Which obviously is a fault of pacing but, eh, it doesn't really bother me that much? I guess we all have different tolerances. Homestuck has never fallen into "unreadable" territory for me, so I just slog through the lows to get to the highs. One thing I always loved about Homestuck was how Hussie managed to make even exposition/flash backs propel the story, how they relive these memories while asleep or dead which are simultaneously past and present. The memory leads to a current interaction which leads to fleshing out some aspect of unresolved plot points. My favorite example is Dave and Rose reliving an old memory, but is in fact Dave asleep on Derse and Rose flying through a dream bubble on the moon, and how the old memory flows into current problems, and the two defeat DD and head out to make the Green Sun. It's a complicated and interesting plot structure, and it's one of my favorite parts of the comic. Which is why I love every dream one of the kids has, because even if it seems far off and irrelevant, it still manages to wrap back to being important. Which is sort of true for everything in the story. I've been reading this thing since the very first update (I started reading halfway through PS), so I've had years now to develop patience and tolerance for Hussie's pace, and the constant pay-offs make it worth it. Maybe that's why I find this thread so frustrating sometimes, people seem to have increasingly little patience. Just give it time, guys, there can be no pay-off without build-up.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 06:39
|
|
|
Strongylocentrotus posted:Also, I guess uu enjoys requesting pornographic art. As usual, the strangest stuff is a reference to an old Hussie comic (probably  ): http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?24118-Cheerfulbear-PLAY-MEIt's been referenced a couple times before, mainly the comic in Dave's apartment.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 06:49
|
|
|
Android Blues posted:Now that the nature of the link between UU and uu is being more firmly hinted at, it's vaguely disturbing to think of this aggressively perverted and demanding douche being the other side of her coin. Like, I can totally see this guy as UU's id. Considering how UU and uu represent the fans, now I'm wondering if the pornography he's going to demand from Dirk is going to be somehow fanart. As in, require the contents of the porn is related to Dirk and his friends somehow.  Oh, and I'm guessing the "lovely twist ending" is that someone dies either way. It'll just be a question of who, I suppose.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 07:04
|
|
|
uu is coming off as really dumb here. AR literally just told him how this past communication is going to go and uu didn;t catch on at all. It fits with the Homestuck fandom nods though, where UU is the type to obsessively overanalyze everything uu just picks up the most superficial layer.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 07:10
|
|
|
Walliard posted:As usual, the strangest stuff is a reference to an old Hussie comic (probably I don't know if there's a word to describe the mixture of amusement, befuddlement, and repulsion I'm feeling while reading that thread. All I know is I'm laughing. Incredible. Props to Hussie for being able to work the most obscure callbacks/references into Homestuck.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 07:17
|
|
|
The strange thing is that uu's words read a little bit like WV's. "BORING LIES FROM THE RED LINES" reminds me of lines like WV's "ENOUGH STRANGE POETRY FROM THE RED TEXT. THE PURPLE TEXT IS LESS IRRATIONAL THAN THE RED TEXT." Perhaps representing uu's lack of understanding of the situation?
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 07:50
|
|
|
Bobulus posted:Perhaps representing uu's lack of understanding of the situation? uu: OH LOOK. THIS MAN IS NOT WHAT HE APPEARS TO BE. OR IS HE? NO HE'S GLASSES. uu: THE MYSTERY IS SOLVED. WHO GIVES A gently caress. uu understands the situation just fine.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 08:06
|
|
|
I mean 'big picture' not understanding things, not identifying AR. edit: I really think someone is going to die here, and I suspect It's going to be Dirk's dreamself. Dirk has shown to not be very good at managing two bodies at once, that while he's occupied with the drones, Red Miles is probably going to get him.
Bobulus fucked around with this message at 08:37 on May 22, 2012 |
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 08:25
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:uu: OH LOOK. THIS MAN IS NOT WHAT HE APPEARS TO BE. OR IS HE? NO HE'S GLASSES. You know with each of uu's pesterlogs he's sounding more and more like Karkat, to the point that the above theory of the latter loving up his ectobiology session and creating both (?) of them almost makes sense. Maybe being an unwaveringly arrogant dumbass about time shenanigans just runs in the family. Doesn't really explain UU, though. Hey, here's a thought--what if in trying to make himself a regular limeblooded troll, he tried to fuse his blood color with the closest one to it (Nepeta) and came up with this monstrosity: half insecure rear end in a top hat, half blitheringly optimistic shipper, and all terrible.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 10:11
|
|
|
Android Blues posted:Now that the nature of the link between UU and uu is being more firmly hinted at, it's vaguely disturbing to think of this aggressively perverted and demanding douche being the other side of her coin. Like, I can totally see this guy as UU's id. Don't worry, when he/she enters the game, the two personalities will combine with the help of Stephen King.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 10:31
|
|
|
quote:uu: BuLLSHIT. I AM BASICALLY THE MASTER OF ALL RED HERRINGS. And that's the point where I started reading all of uu's lines in an Invader Zim voice.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 12:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 13:06 |
|
|
My current working theory with uu and UU is that they're the same person, as we're all expecting, but they have two seperate dreamselves. This fits with what we already know - sollux had two dreamselves so it's definitely possible. What happens when someone with a split personality has two dreamselves? One would be awake when the other is asleep, so while UU is chilling on prospit as her dreamself, uu is inhabiting the shared body. And when he falls asleep, he wakes up on derse and UU takes over the shared body. It's complicated as gently caress i know, but it would explain how they can be one person but still have two different bodies and blood colours etc - one dreamself has red blood and the other lime Since we know trolls are genderless, it wouldn't pose too much of an issue for the real body - when inhabited by uu it would identify as male, and with UU it would be female, but the distinction would be entirely meaningless. This creates more questions than it answers, but the thing i like about homestuck is that you can create any insane theory you want and it has a decent chance of later becoming true (see the 'roxy and dirk are living in the post apocalyptic future' theory)
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2012 13:04
|
|
