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S.J. posted:Probably about 6 months, but dude, were you not warned about starting mercs? Mercs are rough, even for experienced players. Yes, the gap between them and other factions really is that bad. I have to agree with S.J.. I had about 3 solid months of absolute 0 wins outside of my initial demo game. Then i had 1-2 a month maybe for several more months. That was with a main 4 factions who arguably have all the tools necessary to win. Mercenaries have a harder time in general since most of their models are watered down since they can be used cross faction. If you don't mind me asking what lists have you been playing and what have you been losing to and why?
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May 30, 2012 20:32
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Gay Polymers posted:It took me 3 years to start winning games with consistency. It sounds like you have something that's getting you every time, though. Do you always eat an alpha strike? Leave an opening to your caster? Is the way you lose games always the same? Setting aside my earlier games, where I had a lot of clear and obvious issues, most of them time my army just gets ground down until it's just my caster and a couple other pieces, which get swamped. I haven't lost to a straight alpha strike or assassination run in a while, I just seem to lose more stuff faster than my opponent. I haven't played a ton of scenarios, but I lose those consistently too. It feels like the same issue - my stuff seems to get swept off objectives really easily and I can't dislodge his at all. Going back over my last few games: 1) Damiano v. Rasheth - Lost on scenario, but his stuff was just pulping my guys and I would have lost to caster kill the next turn anyway. 2) Damiano v. Kromac - Lost to caster kill once he had mashed up my stuff between a Sprinting Warpwolf, Quick Working Blood Trackers, and Lord of the Feast. I was trying to get the scenario and couldn't deal with his Stalker. 3) Damiano v. Venethrax - Lost on scenario; he wrecked all the stuff I had contesting while I couldn't shift the Bloood Gorgers. 4) Ashlynn v. Grayle - Lost to caster kill; this actually went better than a lot of games, even though the Lord of the Feast wrecked my poo poo. It ended up with Ashlynn+Rocinante v. Grayle+Stalker, and he won. 5) Ashlynn v. Garryth - Lost to caster kill; Ashlynn got sniped to death once most everything else was dead. I can't really put a finger on what I am doing wrong. If you'd like to play me sometime and tell me, that would be swell. Alternatively, DAD LOST MY IPOD was the one who beat me with Rastheth, so maybe he can tell us! Although the answer for that might just be that it was my first game against Skorne. S.J. posted:Probably about 6 months, but dude, were you not warned about starting mercs? Mercs are rough, even for experienced players. Yes, the gap between them and other factions really is that bad. Well, what happened as that when Warmachine was a brand new game, a bunch of friends and I started playing. We all just sort of grabbed a group, I ended up using the Merc contracts that came out in NQ. We were all new players and there was so little in the game that the difference wasn't really noticeable (if it was even as prevalent then). Our local store ended up closing and the friends that got out of the hobby gave me their merc stuff, and it all basically sat in storage until last fall. So I had the option of using the pile of miniatures I owned, or spending a whole lot to come into the game fresh. I'm not opposed to branching into one of the main factions if it will make a significant difference. Probably Cygnar, given that I already have a handful of their stuff.
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May 30, 2012 20:56
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Ashcans posted:I know that Warmachine has kind of a steeper learning curve than a number of other games, but how long did it take you guys to start winning an appreciable number of games against regular players? Lately I have been feeling kind of disillussioned with how frequently and badly I lose games. I am not an intensely competitive person and I can have fun while losing, but even so it gets a little tough sometimes. One of the guys I play with likes to say that he lost the first 60 games he played. I don't know how much of that is hyperbole, but it sounds reasonable for playing mostly against experienced players. Like the above posters said, you should try to identify why you're losing. Do you forget rules? Do you find yourself frequently surprised by what your opponent's models do? Do you lose by scenario frequently? The lists you play sound very limited. Do you think there's some counterbuilding happening on your opponents' part? Do you always try to use the same strategy? You might try taking pictures of a couple games and writing up what you were trying to do if you want more specific gameplay feedback. Edit: You've answered a couple of these already. You said that you feel like you can't kill your opponent's models, and that is something that Mercs have trouble with (generally low POW). You might try looking at what you're using to attack those things you can't kill. What size games do you usually play? SirJoeKCB fucked around with this message at 21:04 on May 30, 2012 |
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May 30, 2012 20:58
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Ashcans posted:I'm not opposed to branching into one of the main factions if it will make a significant difference. Probably Cygnar, given that I already have a handful of their stuff. Cygnar is fine, though you'll need quite a few merc models for them, ironically.
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May 30, 2012 21:02
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:I have to agree with S.J.. I had about 3 solid months of absolute 0 wins outside of my initial demo game. Then i had 1-2 a month maybe for several more months. That was with a main 4 factions who arguably have all the tools necessary to win. Mercenaries have a harder time in general since most of their models are watered down since they can be used cross faction. If you don't mind me asking what lists have you been playing and what have you been losing to and why? I have actually posted a couple of the lists and brief summaries in the thread before, if you want to glance at my history. The Ashlynn list I was using at 25pts was this: Ashlynn d'Elyse (*6pts) * Mule (8pts) * Rocinante (9pts) * Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts) Captain Sam MacHorne & the Devil Dogs (Sam and 9 Grunts) (7pts) * Buccaneer (3pts) Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts) and at 35pts I have been using this Damiano list: Captain Damiano (*6pts) * Rocinante (9pts) * Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts) Alexia Ciannor & the Risen (Alexia and 9 Risen Grunts) (5pts) Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts) * Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts) * * Mule (8pts) Steelhead Halberdiers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts) Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts) Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts) I tend to stick with a list for several games, because I feel like constantly switching stuff in and out just makes it more confusing and harder to work with. Obviously if somethins seems just terrible I will cut it, but I try to give it a couple games, especially with new stuff. SirJoeKCB posted:Like the above posters said, you should try to identify why you're losing. Do you forget rules? Do you find yourself frequently surprised by what your opponent's models do? Do you lose by scenario frequently? The lists you play sound very limited. Do you think there's some counterbuilding happening on your opponents' part? Do you always try to use the same strategy? I think that I am ok on the rules at this point, but I am definitely struggling to stay on top of everything my opponents can do. A lot of the guys at the store have big collections and multiple factions, so I am regularly running into new stuff. Thinking about it, the only casters I have played against more than once are Nemo and Vlad. I doubt that there is any counterbuilding going on - most of the guys are pretty cool and they know that I am a newer player and aren't looking to crush me. More than once people have actually switched to their lesser used faction or to a new list they want to try rather than play their top list against me. I can try and keep better notes/pictures the next time I play, though. Edit: I have usually been playing at 25pts, occassionally at 35pts. The last three games were all 35pts, as part of our escalation league. We have a 50pt tournament coming up that I was planning to play in but have been rethinking. Ashcans fucked around with this message at 21:10 on May 30, 2012 |
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May 30, 2012 21:07
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Ashcans posted:and at 35pts I have been using this Damiano list: This list is close to being solid but it has almost no killing power. The Halberdiers are already a tar pit, you don't need Alexia. I'd change it up to this: Points: 35/35 Captain Damiano (*6pts) * Rocinante (9pts) * Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts) Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts) * Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts) * * Mule (8pts) Steelhead Halberdiers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts) Steelhead Heavy Cavalry (Leader and 2 Grunts) (6pts) Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts) Also, as far as points levels, don't be discouraged by losing 25 point games. The game doesn't really work well at that point level outside of gimmick formats that favor certain builds. 35 and 50 points are much kinder.
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May 30, 2012 21:14
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S.J. posted:Also, as far as points levels, don't be discouraged by losing 25 point games. The game doesn't really work well at that point level outside of gimmick formats that favor certain builds. 35 and 50 points are much kinder. To second that: I played a lot of 35 and it was my preferred format, until I went to a city I was unfamiliar with. Everyone there played 50pts, unless it was a battlebox. I didn't know anyone, so if I was going to get anything going... I found out that I rocked at 50 points. I had spent so long at 35, getting myself trashed left and right, I valued a coherency others didn't. 50 was just so forgiving for bad feats, misplaced units, etc. Which is to say that you should try moving up into 50's. At 25 a feat wins the game. At 35, picking a paper unit against a scissors army loses the game. At 50 you can really play with lists and the game just feels more forgiving. Mercs still get smacked around, mind you. Also it takes a lot longer, but speed comes with practice. And when I go back to 25, I still lose. Even to new players.
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May 30, 2012 21:35
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Yeah. I really like 50 points, I feel the game is really made for it. 35 is okay, but after playing lots of 50 point games it feels like trying to play a 1,000 point game of 40k.
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May 30, 2012 21:41
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Have you thought of running boomhowler? You might benefit from a real beefy tarpit unit.
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May 30, 2012 21:50
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I don't feel he'd get much benefit out of it at 35 points (at least in that list).
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May 30, 2012 21:54
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Thanks for all the replies, guys. I guess I'll keep at it and see how the 50pt games go for now. I picked up both Ragman and Gorman, and have Steelhead Cav in the mail right now, so hopefully that will help give me more punch for both 35 and 50pt lists with Damiano. I've thought about Boomhowler, but he seemed close to stuff that I already have (as a tarpit) so I've been focusing on getting together more support and damage stuff. Now that I have the Cavalry, I was thinking of adding Stannis as well - after that I am not sure where to go (possibly just start saving for Galleon)
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May 30, 2012 22:12
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Do you own aiyana and holt? They seem pretty important for damage output in mercs. Also, I sort of had a similar problem with skorne...I played basically the same faction for so long that I started to get "mweh, everyones stuff is better than mine" syndrome. I switched to cryx, and also have started borrowing other peoples armies and letting them borrow mine, a lot. Its really enlightening to see/hear what people are scared of, especially when its a model/unit that you think is pretty lovely. Weirdly enough, I feel like if I had my skorne still I would be a WAY better skorne player than I was, having seen the other side and realized what makes it tick. So I guess grab one of the regulars who is a really good player, ask to army swap for a game, and see how that goes. It might be really enlightening.
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May 30, 2012 22:28
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The halberdiers should be a good tarpit too. One trick is to position them in such a way as to get maximum blocking benefit while exposing the minimum number of models to harm. The fact that they have reach means you can block nearly a 12in line with only 3 models, while keeping the rest back for a counter charge. Unless the models are ghostly or have acrobatics/parry (in which case it's a unit specifically designed to tear up a tarpit, basically) you can hedge enemies off from your squishy expensive models (ATGM's, etc). I'll hopefully be able to make it to Hobby Bunker on june 9th, maybe we can play then. 
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May 30, 2012 22:29
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Reading that, I think that positioning might be one of my weak points. In my last game I got most of the Devil Dogs killed because I bunched them up too close to Nihilators, letting him Bezerk through basically the whole unit. There was really no reason to do that, if I had kept the rest of the unit further off it would have been much better. Similarly, I normally deploy the halberdiers in a tight group (like actual polearms are used). There's no real gain in that at all. I'll also see if any of the regulars are interested in an army swap for a couple games - that might be a fun thing for people to try in general, and I definitely think that it would be useful for me to see. Gay Polymers posted:I'll hopefully be able to make it to Hobby Bunker on june 9th, maybe we can play then. June 9th is my son's birthday, so no chance that I will be there! Are you planning to come out on the 16th? That's the tournament date, but we could still probably find space for some pick up games - not sure if I want to enter the tournament just to go 0-3 against people's A lists.
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May 30, 2012 22:42
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I might be there on the 16th, I'm down for some non-tourney games (I missed all the league stuff, so I don't think I can play). Positioning is definitely a big thing, and when you said your army is getting mulched, I suspected it. Things like Nihilators/Doomreavers/anything with Sidestep/etc will eat you alive if you put your models in a position to take massive casualties. As a general rule, you should keep most models spread out enough that a 3" AOE that deviates won't clip more than one model. Obviously ignore that if you're using models to block LOS to things, or need models b2b for Shield Wall or Defensive Line. Learning to truly utilize the command bubble is an incredibly important skill.
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May 30, 2012 22:57
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I've been playing this game for almost 2 years and I still suck lots of rear end at it, but I still have fun playing. I have played exclusively Protectorate since I started, and I'm about to make my first foray into Hordes, so hopefully I can learn some from playing another faction.
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May 30, 2012 22:59
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PaintVagrant posted:Do you own aiyana and holt? They seem pretty important for damage output in mercs. To second this I played Menoth for years and I felt solid with them; but it wasn't till I started playing Retribution / Minions till I got exceptionally better. Because it was such a change of pace I could see what it was like being in the other person's shoes. That way I had an easier time thinking of how to counter it. Ashcans posted:I have actually posted a couple of the lists and brief summaries in the thread before, if you want to glance at my history. The Ashlynn list I was using at 25pts was this: On these S.j. is right in that Damiano lacks reach piercing strength. It looks like you are heavily relying on your Feat to do all the heavy lifting for you which is a risky endeavour. The Ashlynn list is skewed; she isn't a jack caster. With her I'd run something more like: Points: 25/25 Ashlynn d'Elyse (*6pts) * Rocinante (9pts) * Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts) Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts) * Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts) Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts) Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts) Forge Guard with Quicken + Tough are rear end in a top hat to remove, and can run 12" / charge 9" with Reach. They are P+S 11 weaponmaster which under your feat turn will be crit slamming bitching like it was a hobby. Gun Mages are there for spot removal like Sniping out Doomreavers / MHSF / Kayazay. Gorman can Rust Bomb Warjacks to make your Forge Guard retardo strong or be Blinding Warbeasts. Which dicks them over hard. Rocinante means Ashlynn can pretty much live forever in the midfield which is pretty much where she belongs. You should be upkeep admonition on either her or Rocinante, and Quicken on the Forgeguard. Here's a pretty sweet Damiano list: Points: 35/35 Captain Damiano (*6pts) * Rocinante (9pts) * Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts) Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts) * Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts) * * Mule (8pts) Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts) Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts) Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts) Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile (2pts) So here is some pro-tip advice. Don't try to take advantage of every ability a caster has; it just generally doesn't work. You'll be taking stuff to capitalize on everything that you lose focus. Boomhowler get's Death March. I'm not sure if Sure Foot is an upkeep or not if it's not then cast it on Boomhowler and watch people get mad over 4+ tough and no KD. If it is then cast it on Rocinante and have him near center-ish of them to do the same thing. Then have Damiano behind him; with Sure Foot on Rocinante the usual trick of slaming warjacks over their casters wont work on you because you can't be knocked down by him  . Deadeye on Gunmages / Mule then Crit Brutals is a thing of beauty. Boomhowlers with Feat + Rust / Black Oil will ruin any heavies day. So MacNaile is the big thing here he gives that bonus to range to everyone including Gorman, and he can Artillerist Gorman since they are both Mercs. You know what's worst than Gorman? A hyper accurate with reroll to deviate onto something Gorman; that also can toss further on mini-feat time. MacNaile's minifeat also affects the Gunmages and Mule. Normally Artillerist will be on the Mule to make him hyper accurate.
I R SMART LIKE ROCK fucked around with this message at 23:43 on May 30, 2012 |
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May 30, 2012 23:21
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You actually played well against me- pretty much every 'mistake' you made was 100% due to inexperience vs the faction, like underestimating Gator threat range, underestimating Reach Berserk, etc. There's no cure for that but experience and you should have seen how badly I got housed when I started out. Lost a tournament to the RANGED ATTACK from Sniped Stormblades, killboxed myself just a couple months ago, etc. Also my dice were pretty hot, do remember that. But yeah Rasheth, at least the way I play him, wins games with armor spam and your list struggles against that without cav. The only real change I think I would have done would be to cram the scenario zone with your 'jacks. Also, unless you have a LOT of heavy guns or a feat like Ossyan's/Butcher's, you're not going to kill a heavy before it reaches you with ranged attacks. Thunderbolting the Titan to keep him away and using your heavy guns to kill Gators might have worked better. Shooting at heavies is for softening them up before your own heavy goes in to assure the kill. And I'd LOVE an army swap. Always fun!
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May 30, 2012 23:48
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I'm about ten months into MkII (though I've owned stuff since MkI) and I have only just hit the point where I've started to win games almost as often as not against semi-experienced players. I'm in a pretty soft meta, but on the other hand, I didn't play very much for the first 4-5 months. For me, a lot of my gains came from A) happily losing games but then obsessively thinking through what I could have done better (or taken in order to deal with it, mostly both) and B) listening to a ton of podcasts with tournament batte reports and good advice, which were directly instructive and, more importantly, helped me become more familiar with other factions.
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May 31, 2012 00:22
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I've been playing since january, and I win maybe half my games. I chalk this up to Gators being awesome and cool, not personal skill. Also I really only play people my own skill level, so yes, I am still terrible. Was planning on picking up some Forge Guard today for ashlynn, but then I realized they're loving awesome with Constance too! System: Warmachine Faction: Highborn Covenant Casters: 1/1 Points: 35/35 Constance Blaize, Knights of the Prophet (*6pts) * Gallant (9pts) Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts) * Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts) Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) Precursor Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) * Precursor Knight Officer & Standard (2pts) Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts) Harlan Versh (2pts) Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts) Haha hello infantrymachine! The Precursors are a solid iron wall that hit like a truck on their minifeat and have ranked attacks, so they'll be front line. Gun mages sitting behind them shooting through them with versh in there too, hopefully taking pot shots at Upkeeps and being a pain in the rear end. Then I've got Forge guard in the back to dish out some hard hits with crusader's call giving them +2spd on the charge and transference fom crit fishing! Then this is my second list for her, all I'm waiting on is that drat centurion plastic box System: Warmachine Faction: Constance Blaize - Knights of the Prophet Casters: 1/1 Points: 35/35 Tiers: 4 Constance Blaize, Knights of the Prophet (*6pts) * Centurion (9pts) * Gallant (9pts) Precursor Knights (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts) * Precursor Knight Officer & Standard (0pts) Precursor Knights (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts) * Precursor Knight Officer & Standard (2pts) Sword Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts) Archduke Alain Runewood (3pts) Harlan Versh (2pts) I'm not sure who I'll play for the first line, I loving love precursors and might play one group front line, then sword knights in the middle with the rest of the precursors with constance. That way I'll have some all game to both absorb hits and minifeat counter charge/flank with. Then there's two reach jacks for the sword knights to flank off. I've got a good feeling for this list. Also in Tier 4 all my knights have +2 SPD and the jacks have advance move, haha eat it scenarios. gobbledygoat fucked around with this message at 02:22 on May 31, 2012 |
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May 31, 2012 00:35
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It took me a long time to start winning games in Warmachine. I was playing off and on for the better part of a year before I started to actually put out actual decent games against my opponents. Even now I still lose more often than naught, but at least I feel like a competitive opponent instead of that newbie who choose Mercs. I came into Warmachine with MK2 and I was debating constantly between Cygnar and Mercenaries at the start. I eventually settled on Mercenaries because I enjoyed the variety and character in the models and I was in love with Steelheads. Love the models, particularly the Riflemen. I was warned repeatedly about Mercs from store friends and the Press ganger but I shook it off with "Ha, I love playing my Daemonhunters codex in 40k". Ironic nowadays. I hopped casters for quite a bit. Magnus, Ashlynn, Drake before I settled on Damiano when he was released and have been playing him for a few months now. Playing one caster for a good while helped a bit as I could tweak the infantry/jacks after each game. It also helps that Damiano is a fantastic Merc warcaster. Ashcans posted:Reading that, I think that positioning might be one of my weak points. In my last game I got most of the Devil Dogs killed because I bunched them up too close to Nihilators, letting him Bezerk through basically the whole unit. There was really no reason to do that, if I had kept the rest of the unit further off it would have been much better. Similarly, I normally deploy the halberdiers in a tight group (like actual polearms are used). There's no real gain in that at all. Positioning and learning where and when everything goes was really the turning point for me, and I'd argue its even more important with Mercs. Getting the Halberdiers in place to charge or take a charge, and then that all important Cavalry follow-up is all good, but learning stuff like using Reform from Damiano to spread out the Halberdiers after the attack to fit more Cav in or when to use Deadeye on the Gun Mages or the Mule that is Marshalled out for maximum damage, getting models like Versh, Rhupert, Gorman, Ragman, or Taryn into good positions amidst all that infantry carnage has been the biggest challenges. Merc units are a bit weak but man, when all the factors come together and the little hidden synergies start clicking, I'm reminded about why they are my favorite faction. Losing is a good thing too. I kept my Halberdiers all bunched together as well, usually in a line. They are a screening force, that's how you use Halberdiers in reality roughly, so it seemed like a good idea. Then I had General Gerlak Slaughterborn, whom I'd never seen before, kill all 10 of them in one turn, without so much as a care in the world. Now, I put them in tiny groups of 3s, with one group of 4 in a rough arc in front of my army. Much better coverage and more room for all those Solos and Cav to move around. Little things I suppose. Here is my most recent and successful Damiano list. System: Warmachine Faction: Highborn Covenant Casters: 1/1 Points: 35/35 Captain Damiano (*6pts) * Rocinante (9pts) Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts) * Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts) * * Mule (8pts) Steelhead Halberdiers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts) Steelhead Heavy Cavalry (Leader and 2 Grunts) (6pts) Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts) Taryn di la Rovissi (2pts) The basic idea is the Steelheads, Taryn and Rhupert are one side and Damiano and the Gun Mages and assorted Jacks are the other. Deadeye for the Gun Mages/Mule, Surefoot on Taryn or whomever, and Death March for the Halberdiers for the first part of the game and I switch it to the Cav after they get stuck in for the added MAT. Generally the Steelheads are taking the charge and suffering as much as they can, but I typically use Damiano's feat so that the follow-up with the Cav and friends is strong and the weakened Halberdiers can take another round of punishment. Taryn is mostly personal but having her about for Corrosion and shooting Steelheads out of combat for hopeful charges has been handy. Gorman would be a better choice at 35 points, but hey. For 50 points, add: Vanguard under Damiano so you can cast Surefoot on it and have the Steelheads nearby. If something charges you, they becomes Defense 17. Not bad for 6 point grunts. Full Cavalry cause more is better. Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire. I just started using her and its been fantastic. The ability to throw a few thralls in whatever direction I want to shore up my Defenses has been a lifesaver. Plus Damiano's feat makes them even sillier and Alexia is no slouch herself. Gorman because Blind is a lifesaver. That ALL said, You've always given good Merc advice in the thread before. I think once you get all the tricks down, you will have no trouble murdering for money.
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May 31, 2012 01:49
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May 31, 2012 03:28
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gently caress yes! Proteus is 5 Fury boss.
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May 31, 2012 03:33
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That is gorgeous!
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May 31, 2012 03:40
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Tonight I cut my entire Legion army off their stock bases to get them ready for painting. I am starting to get excited about throwing down with some serious painting time. This snow mixture looks amazing, and is so easy. It doesn't even involve pulverized glass bits and emphysema. Proteus was primed with Duplicolor Grey. Zenithal airbrushed with VMA Dark Grey Blue, and Pale Blue Grey. Then carapace was airbrushed with VMA Camo Brown, VMA Camo Light Brown, and a little VMA Light Brown. Painted fingers, toes and tentacles, then gloss varnished heavily. Followed by Ivory Black oil wash. Matte Varnish. Edge highlighting. Snow, and Bam!
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May 31, 2012 03:45
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I just want to make the point that gently caress Reach Berserkers, Forever. Especially when they have Tough to break friendly-fire berserk chains. Nihilators, Doom Reavers and Warpwolf Stalkers can all kill all the infantry they can reach-- the Stalker is only one model and can't get the coverage of the other two, but he can also slaughter heavies and have Wild Aggression and Tracker cast on him, basically ensuring that everything within 2" of his base ends up dead. Trample into the middle of a unit, buy one sword attack, clear out that entire unit. This is just something that anyone who runs infantry heavy has to learn to deal with. Nihilators and Doom Reavers are not particularly hard to kill but if you let just ONE make it to your lines you will really regret it, especially if they have any kind of MAT buff active (Signs and Portents, Death March, Carnage etc).
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May 31, 2012 03:56
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Ashcans posted:I have actually posted a couple of the lists and brief summaries in the thread before, if you want to glance at my history. The Ashlynn list I was using at 25pts was this: It took me about a year of getting stomped before I started to win with any sort of consistency with my mercs. Mercs is an uphill battle for sure, though you can certainly win with them. You will just get punished harder for your mistakes in a game. I will concur that your lists look like they lack hitting power. You've got the tar pit covered, but don't have an alpha unit and/or support pieces that will let you wreck a heavy in a single turn. Steelhead Cav (w/ halberdiers) and Horgenhold Forgeguard are probably the hardest hitting merc units. The addition of Aiyana and Holt and/or Gorman and/or Ragman (who is a bit harder to use) will all help with your hitting power. Also, Damiano and Ashlynn both have feats that need to be timed well. Both of their feats want to be used when you charge your opponent and then help you weather the counter attack. Pay close attention to how you are using their feats to make sure you're getting as much mileage as possible out of them.
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May 31, 2012 04:02
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I just want to make the point that gently caress Reach Berserkers, Forever. Especially when they have Tough to break friendly-fire berserk chains. Nihilators, Doom Reavers and Warpwolf Stalkers can all kill all the infantry they can reach-- the Stalker is only one model and can't get the coverage of the other two, but he can also slaughter heavies and have Wild Aggression and Tracker cast on him, basically ensuring that everything within 2" of his base ends up dead. Trample into the middle of a unit, buy one sword attack, clear out that entire unit. This sort of thing is why infantry either has to be very high defense, be Tough, or be very very cheap. Infantry clearing effects are balanced with the good infantry, but the non-good infantry exists to be demolished.
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May 31, 2012 04:44
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Corbeau posted:This sort of thing is why infantry either has to be very high defense, be Tough, or be very very cheap. Infantry clearing effects are balanced with the good infantry, but the non-good infantry exists to be demolished. As a Troll player, I must raise issue with putting Tough in the same category as very high defense. Killing Iron Fleshed Kazazy or Winterguard is much harder than dealing with a pesky 5+ "armor save." I don't really understand why people are so touchy about Tough! Yes, once in a blue moon a Troll player gets a good story about surviving an assassination, but most of the time it does exactly nothing. (I have never had a troll caster make a tough check that altered the outcome of a game.) I would rather go against Boomhowler, than Iron Fleshed Nyss Hunters. dexefiend fucked around with this message at 05:13 on May 31, 2012 |
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May 31, 2012 05:11
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dexefiend posted:As a Troll player, I must raise issue with putting Tough in the same category as very high defense. Killing Iron Fleshed Kazazy or Winterguard is much harder than dealing with a pesky 5+ "armor save." It's not the caster, it's the infantry. And in the case of Trolls it's the tough everywhere infantry and the fact that medium bases make it harder for most models to get to grips with large portions of a unit, as they can much more easily spread out. Tough regularly effects the outcome of games, and is much much much harder to ignore than high DEF - every faction has AOE access that, if used properly, will devastate high DEF infantry. Stuff that gets rid of tough is very rarely seen.
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May 31, 2012 05:15
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What's the utility of a Feralgeist? There's one at my FLGS and I'm working on my first real army. Speaking of which, so far here's what I have: Circle Mohsar Stoneward & Woldstalkers Woldwyrd Feral Warpwolf Reeve Hunter Still debating adding Druids & maybe a Gorax or a Shadowhorn.
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May 31, 2012 05:24
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SirJoeKCB posted:One of the guys I play with likes to say that he lost the first 60 games he played. I don't know how much of that is hyperbole, but it sounds reasonable for playing mostly against experienced players. I literally lost my first 24 games. Not hyperbole, I kept track  It's a learning cliff more than a learning curve, though. Once you're there, you're there.
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May 31, 2012 05:59
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3 years of no wins is not hyperbole for me either. It wasn't games everyday, mind you, but I probably lost about 45 games before I won. And the fact that the guy I won my first game against is now writing fluff for Privateer Press makes it even sweeter... 
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May 31, 2012 06:07
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This may just be me, but Warmachine clicked for me after only five or six games. Playing competitively right off the bat may have sped things up. I then moved to another area, and currently maintain around a 2:1 win:loss. Though whilst learning I had the benefit of playing Vlad1 in Mk1  . Those who remember know how silly that was. Even after switching to Ret - I had gained enough experience with the mechanics of the game and other people's units via Khador that tactics became second nature.It may also be worth noting that upwards of 90% of my games have been at 35 points. I really prefer 50, but my community just is not interested. Almost related note: I strongly want to start playing Steamroller 2012 rules in my group, but I am unsure how to approach them. Any thoughts?
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May 31, 2012 06:33
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Gay Polymers posted:3 years of no wins is not hyperbole for me either. It wasn't games everyday, mind you, but I probably lost about 45 games before I won. Hay, gurl. Oh, what is this I just seem to have painted? 
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May 31, 2012 06:39
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gently caress you 
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May 31, 2012 06:43
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Hawt poo poo.UnkleBoB posted:This may just be me, but Warmachine clicked for me after only five or six games. Playing competitively right off the bat may have sped things up. I then moved to another area, and currently maintain around a 2:1 win:loss. Introduce scenarios first to ease people into the idea of playing for more than just "Kill the Caster". Once people start playing for more than assassination, you can start bringing in other parts of SR2012, like timed turns and character restrictions. Time is a sore point for some people, but honestly it's a lot easier to play to time than people think (mostly playing to time cuts down on the ummming and erring: people are forced to make plays instead of getting caught up in indecision). A good way to get people into playing timed turns is to give the newer players more time per turn as if they were playing a higher points value: so for a game of 35, give them the time allotment of a 50 or even a 75 point game.
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May 31, 2012 06:43
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I actually already have them playing scenarios. Our press-ganger is a good friend of mine, and I convinced him all the league play is a great way to attract more folks(which proved true), so we're seeing tons of that. Thanks for the idea on upping-times. Time is the main part of SR2012 I wanted to start playing, and allowing people one tier higher sounds like a great way to work it in!
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May 31, 2012 07:31
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Ashcans posted:I'll also see if any of the regulars are interested in an army swap for a couple games - that might be a fun thing for people to try in general, and I definitely think that it would be useful for me to see. A couple of the other responses kind of alluded to it, but I don't think it was explicitly stated: do a post-mortem on each game you lose. Ask your opponent what he thinks you did wrong. Another thing that can help is asking if you can play a couple of games against the same list, that way you can try some different strategies and see what works and what doesn't without needing to deal with new models at the same time.
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May 31, 2012 07:36
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 13:46 |
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Kumo posted:What's the utility of a Feralgeist? There's one at my FLGS and I'm working on my first real army. Get a Pureblood in there. I never finished my in depth write up on him, but the Pureblood's range and utility performs brilliantly with Mohsar's board control (and you will thank the gods that you've got a Pureblood when you encounter Iron Flesh). A Shadowhorn is also a solid option if you really want to play for assassination.
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May 31, 2012 07:57
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