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moonshine is...... posted:If the conduit you are running in is going to be more than 24" in length you should probably mount a metal 4 square box as the junction box. That way you can switch to THHN in the junction box then run that in the conduit. Make sure to use all the proper fittings, use GFCI receptacles, etc. What is THHN?
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Jun 5, 2012 03:39
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Bad Munki posted:No major load. We're talking a couple extra lights, and...whatever ends up on the workbench. It's a "small-projects" bench, generally nothing that'll even require power except those extra lights. Maybe a soldering iron from time to time. This is just my "non-garage" workbench. I bet the biggest thing that'll ever get plugged in there will be my laptop from time to time. In a lot of jurisdictions it is illegal to run Romex in conduit over 24". THHN/THWN is just individual copper wire with insulation, you can pick it up at Home Depot at a reasonable price. Here's a link to what I'm talking about http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbmad/h_d2/Navigation?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
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Jun 5, 2012 03:51
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Ahh, gotcha, thanks.
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Jun 5, 2012 03:55
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dwoloz posted:I had an electrician install a new exterior panel and service entrance for my home Depending on the situation another option maybe creating your own knock out(s) in the back of the panel.
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Jun 5, 2012 04:05
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Bad Munki posted:Ahh, gotcha, thanks. One caveat with that is, when you are running the line side of the GFIC receptacle most of them are made so that you can use stranded wire in the terminal connection. You can use stranded load side as well. When you get to the standard receptacles though, wrapping stranded under a screw is a bad idea. So you'll pry want to pig tail out some 12 or 14 AWG solid. Depending on what the amperage on the circuit is.
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Jun 5, 2012 04:39
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moonshine is...... posted:In a lot of jurisdictions it is illegal to run Romex in conduit over 24". THHN/THWN is just individual copper wire with insulation, you can pick it up at Home Depot at a reasonable price. Here's a link to what I'm talking about http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbmad/h_d2/Navigation?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 I want to run a 220 air compressor and welder in my garage, which is about 30 feet from my service entrance. Expected load if they're both running is 75A. How can I accomplish this?
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Jun 5, 2012 06:47
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moonshine is...... posted:Depending on the situation another option maybe creating your own knock out(s) in the back of the panel. Hm. I'd have to take down the panel though to get a punch on the back of it Is it even kosher to do what I wanted? (ie run all your circuits through one sufficiently large knockout in the back of the panel to the inside of the building). There is a small gap between the panel and the exterior of the house so technically the cable would be exposed for that 1/8".
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Jun 6, 2012 04:58
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dwoloz posted:Hm. I'd have to take down the panel though to get a punch on the back of it The most you'd be worried about is heat issues, 1/8" just use a close nipple. I've never seen an inspector call it, I don't have my code book on me at the moment though (panels have some unique rules). Greenlee sells some kits you could use, some of them work with drills. If you power the panel down and protect from flinging metal shavings every which way, it would be fine. But before you take that advice let me get back to you when I have the code book sitting near by. Couple of things I'd like to look up.
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Jun 6, 2012 07:13
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dwoloz posted:Hm. I'd have to take down the panel though to get a punch on the back of it You can use a hole saw and drill right through the back of the panel. You will need a bushing of some sort on the hole. A chase nipple with plastic bushing would be best. Getting a locknut on the thing might be a challenge if you've got no access to the back of the panel, though. If you got a PVC nipple, that'd be even better. I've seen them in 2.5" before. You can run all your circuits through a chase nipple as long as you don't violate 80% fill. The diameter of NM cable for purposes of area calculation is the wide measurement. 80% fill comes up pretty fast, but you can legally fit a bunch of NM in a trade size 2.5 hole. You can illegally pack about twice that many in, so depending on whether or not you want to show up in this thread later as "that stupid PO" that's also an option.
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Jun 6, 2012 11:55
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Would just a 2 1/2 inch knockout bushing work? I didn't know that anyone made them, since T&B doesn't, and they're all I sell. Otherwise, maybe you could hold the locknut in place, behind the panel, and spin the chase nipple into it. V  V
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Jun 6, 2012 13:34
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One of the prongs on the power cord of my wife's vacuum just broke off. Is there anyway to salvage the vacuum? 
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Jun 6, 2012 15:28
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Oxford Comma posted:One of the prongs on the power cord of my wife's vacuum just broke off. Is there anyway to salvage the vacuum? You should be able to find something like this at the local bog box store. You probably need two-prong though, rather than three. I don't have time to Google any further right now. I would get something rated "heavy-duty" since it's a vaccum. http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...1&storeId=10051
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Jun 6, 2012 15:53
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Oxford Comma posted:One of the prongs on the power cord of my wife's vacuum just broke off. Is there anyway to salvage the vacuum? Yep! Just cut off the broken plug, strip a bit of the wire off and attach this. Problem solved. e: ^^^^^^^ beaten
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Jun 6, 2012 15:54
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I need to take a picture of the wiring in my office that was supposedly done by a professional. Never seen so much romex stuffed into a single junction box. Wiring running through the ceiling is just romex that's only supported by the junction boxes on each end of it. Here's one picture I found on my computer.  I can count at least 7 runs of romex going into that box, not to mention whatever is coming out of the conduit. They also didn't separate lighting and outlet circuits  Such a mess, thankfully we started on a remodel project that will see to it that most of it is rewired over the course of the project.
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Jun 7, 2012 02:30
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That reminds me, I wanted to post a picture from my basement. I don't know how it looks to other people, but it looks pretty organized to me, especially compared to every other place I've seen. Don't mind the 3-way on the bottom outlet: that was my doing for my cable modem & wifi router until I move them somewhere more permanent. Probably upstairs somewhere, but at least that'll be a cinch since all those coax lines are labelled for which room they connect to. 
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Jun 7, 2012 03:57
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I feel as if by the time this project is done, I will have removed at least 30% of the romex in the attic.. Ugh, such a mess. edit: the fun and surprises just keep coming! 
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Jun 7, 2012 20:07
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What is going on in that picture? I know you can use fluorescent fixtures to junction. They're UL listed. I see the ballast has been burning things? But why? No one change the lamps out or something? This deserves a bigger photo. Loving the NM stretched across the ballast, pure class. edited for huh value. moonshine is...... fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Jun 8, 2012 |
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Jun 8, 2012 08:30
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Hang on, never mind...
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Jun 8, 2012 13:26
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moonshine is...... posted:What is going on in that picture? I know you can use fluorescent fixtures to junction. They're UL listed. I see the ballast has been burning things? But why? No one change the lamps out or something? This deserves a bigger photo. Loving the NM stretched across the ballast, pure class.
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Jun 8, 2012 13:47
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grover posted:What's not normal is the scorching. What happened? Short circuit? Ballast fail and burn the wires? I have no idea what happened there. The light fixture was working fine. We're doing some remodeling and we pulled the cover to un-wire it so we could move it and found that. The picture doesn't show it, but both ballasts in the fixture are like that, and both edges of each ballast look like that. How many code violations do you see in this fabulous piece of work that's getting ripped out this week?  I should probably move this to the crappy construction tales thread.
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Jun 8, 2012 14:09
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grover posted:Wires running like that is normal for the inside of a fluorescent fixture. What's not normal is the scorching. What happened? Short circuit? Ballast fail and burn the wires? Maintenance guys bring in ballasts that look exactly like that all the time. It looks like the wires are burned just because of proximity to where the ballast faulted.
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Jun 8, 2012 15:54
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oh my gosh whoever wired this place used these connectors: Dear former electrician: you keep giving me more reasons to hate you.
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Jun 9, 2012 16:40
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Maniaman posted:oh my gosh whoever wired this place used these connectors: If installed properly, those are every bit as good as wirenuts.
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Jun 9, 2012 19:32
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I recently moved to Canada from NZ and have a couple of appliances I'd like to bring over and run here. In NZ the electrical supply is 220-240V 50Hz. I see that quite a few larger appliances like stoves/dryers/baseboard heaters here are run off 220V, using two hot wires. Are these two wires separate phases, but 180 deg out of phase? How is that different to a phase/neutral setup? Is it feasible for me to run my appliances here, using those same outlets? I'd prefer doing that to getting a transformer, as they are quite high current loads. Specifically, I have a breadmaker and a mixer. I realise the motors may not run optimally because of the frequency difference, but is that small a change likely to screw them up?
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Jun 13, 2012 00:48
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JimbobDobalina posted:I recently moved to Canada from NZ and have a couple of appliances I'd like to bring over and run here. In NZ the electrical supply is 220-240V 50Hz. I see that quite a few larger appliances like stoves/dryers/baseboard heaters here are run off 220V, using two hot wires. Are these two wires separate phases, but 180 deg out of phase? How is that different to a phase/neutral setup? You might be able to use certain 240V US/Canadian appliances in NZ (should work OK if it doesn't require a neutral connection and just wants to see 240V between the terminal lugs), but you won't be able to use 120V stuff without a transformer or inverter. Also be aware that motors will run slower at 50Hz, and motors and transformers designed for 60Hz can overheat and catch fire when plugged into 60Hz outlets. Most computer power supplies are rated for 50-60Hz 110-240V and can plug in anywhere with a simple adapter, but appliances generally can't. There should be a sticker somewhere that says what voltages/frequencies each appliance is rated for. The good news is that toasters and coffee makers all work way better at 230V and you should get NZ models as they'll heat poo poo up about twice as fast as your 120V Canadian appliances.
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Jun 13, 2012 02:38
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grover posted:derp He moved from NZ to Canada. The answer is yes, you can run your appliances off of US/Canada's 240V delta, but you'll be creating a shock hazard in the process, because your appliances expect one leg to be neutral, when they are both in fact hot.
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Jun 13, 2012 03:37
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Continuing main panel saga Got a 1 1/2" knockout opened on the back of the panel (barely clears the stud but does) The setup unfortunately does not lend itself to installing any threaded fittings like an insulated bushing or chase nipple. Is there some type of plastic or rubber grommet that can be installed on the knockout edge to protect the cables from abrading on the metal edge?
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Jun 13, 2012 05:53
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thelightguy posted:He moved from NZ to Canada. Thanks. So not really an ideal solution if the appliances are made for a kitchen (possibly wet) environment. If they are double insulated, would that be OK then? Also, given the likely cost to have them shipped, I might well be better off selling my NZ ones and buying some new ones locally. Righto, problem solved I guess.
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Jun 13, 2012 05:54
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dwoloz posted:Continuing main panel saga There are 1 1/2" romex connectors available. Depending on their listing and your local ordinance you maybe able to use one of them.
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Jun 13, 2012 06:01
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JimbobDobalina posted:Thanks. So not really an ideal solution if the appliances are made for a kitchen (possibly wet) environment. If they are double insulated, would that be OK then? grover fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 10:56
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grover posted:Most computer power supplies are rated for 50-60Hz 110-240V and can plug in anywhere with a simple adapter A lot more than just laptop power supplies can do this now. Many wallwarts can do 50-60Hz 110-240V especially first party ones for cellphones and such, or ones that just supply USB power. It's funny: a connector originally intended for data became the first universal power receptacle.
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Jun 13, 2012 17:16
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grover posted:derp! Sorry, read your post wrong. Yeah, sorry, you can use NZ appliances on Canadian 240V; the motors would run 20% faster and there's the potential for neutral issues, but you're likely OK. However, in practice, you'll only have two 240V jacks in the house- for the stove and the dryer. And maybe not even that if you have gas. You could have one installed, and even install a kiwi jack on it, but it's not going to be cost effective vice selling what you've got and buying new when you arrive. This probably isn't a code-legal method because it's not GFCI, but here's an idea: If your house is a few years old it will probably have several split 15A receptacles in the kitchen, and those boxes will have both phases plus neutral. Cap the neutral and wire both hots to a NEMA 6-15 receptacle, then get a matching plug for your appliances.
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Jun 13, 2012 17:48
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SolidElectronics posted:This probably isn't a code-legal method because it's not GFCI, but here's an idea: And, no, it's definitely not code-legal. You're really better off just putting in a new circuit in a situation like this, even if it's difficult. Or at the very least, putting in GFCI receptacles so you at least don't get electrocuted. grover fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 21:45
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grover posted:Did any houses ever have two circuits in the days before GFCI was required? I've yet to see a non-GFCI kitchen with 15A breakers that had two circuits to it; seems like it's always one 15A circuit that nuissance-trips constantly until the homeowner finally gets pissed off enough to pay someone to run a new circuit. poo poo, half the time the kitchen shared a single 15A receptacle circuit with half the house. My parents' house was built in '93 and their kitchen has four 20A circuits in it, no GFIs. Dedicated fridge, top half of one outlet on a circuit with the garbage disposal and dishwasher, intended for microwave, then two circuits spread around five (and a half) other outlets (including two quads). I like the power in their kitchen. The lights, however, needed work, and the undercabinet solution is way less than ideal.
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Jun 14, 2012 03:04
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Tell me about cracking open my breaker panel and adding an entirely new circuit. I've never done such a thing before, so I'm not really sure if this is something I should be doing, or if I'd be better off just paying someone to come in and do it for me, or if it maybe even needs to have a permit to go with the work. What I want to do: I use my garage as a shop, and a lot of my tools need at least 20A service. I would like to have 30A service around the perimeter of said garage, and while brainstorming last night, I spotted a REALLY easy path to do so, so now I'm wanting that to happen sooner rather than later. Currently, there's just a single 15A breaker, which is the same as my last home, and I practically wore that thing out from constantly tripping it. So yeah, want to add a new line to the breaker panel. And once that's done, what wire should I use to actually make the run to the shop?
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Jun 14, 2012 13:46
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Bad Munki posted:Tell me about cracking open my breaker panel and adding an entirely new circuit. I've never done such a thing before, so I'm not really sure if this is something I should be doing, or if I'd be better off just paying someone to come in and do it for me, or if it maybe even needs to have a permit to go with the work. It isn't hard - you basically run the line, cut power to the box, take its cover off, stick the line through an existing cable clamp (or open a new knockout if you don't have room, in which case you'll need to buy a cable clamp too), then snap the breaker into place. From there, attach the black wire to the breaker and the white / ground wires to the bus on the side. 10 gauge wire is needed for 30A service and make sure you buy a breaker compatible with your box.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:02
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grover posted:Did any houses ever have two circuits in the days before GFCI was required? I've yet to see a non-GFCI kitchen with 15A breakers that had two circuits to it; seems like it's always one 15A circuit that nuissance-trips constantly until the homeowner finally gets pissed off enough to pay someone to run a new circuit. poo poo, half the time the kitchen shared a single 15A receptacle circuit with half the house. My parents' house was built in the 70's and it definitely had them. My dad changed one of those outlets once and re-connected it the wrong way with 240V across the pins. Fried my mom's crock pot before we figured out what happened. My current house had them when I moved in, but I replaced them with 20A GFCIs within the first week. I'm in Canada though, maybe there's some variation in the code requirements. And I'm not disagreeing that it would be a hell of a lot better to just do it the right way.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:25
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jackyl posted:It isn't hard - you basically run the line, cut power to the box, take its cover off, stick the line through an existing cable clamp (or open a new knockout if you don't have room, in which case you'll need to buy a cable clamp too), then snap the breaker into place. From there, attach the black wire to the breaker and the white / ground wires to the bus on the side. Don't forget that even if you cut the main breaker the wires feeding the main breaker are still live.
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Jun 14, 2012 22:32
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Maniaman posted:Don't forget that even if you cut the main breaker the wires feeding the main breaker are still live. So, yes, it's easy to add circuits to a panel. Just open the main breaker before you start working, and be VERY mindful of those live conductors! They may only be 120V, but there is NO no breaker to trip if you short something out- there's going to be a lot of sparks and possible a big boom and a lot of flames if you short it out, stopping only when the fuse or transformer feeding you and your neighbors explodes. For 30A 240V, you'll want #10-3 romex (usually color-coded orange), a box (style is up to you, but I recommend 4x4" for extra space), a 30A 4-wire receptacle, a cable clamp, and a 2-pole breaker w/yoke connecting the poles. White wire is neutral, bare wire is ground, land them on the ground/neutral bar(s) with the other wires. Black and red wires each go to one pole of the receptacle, doesn't matter which is on top. On the receptacle end, follow the manufacturer's instructions.
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Jun 14, 2012 22:45
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I think the "mysterious danger" of the panel, at least in my case, comes down to how frequently I'm in there, and the notion that (at least perceptually) it's the last line of defense against the Deadly Deadly Mains. I dunno, something like that. Anyhow, I'm stoked now and am hoping to at least the line out to the garage hooked up this weekend. All the conduit and outlets I'll need to install will have to wait until later, but the biggest step is just getting power out there in the first place.
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Jun 14, 2012 23:09
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