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MeccaPrime posted:LP seems to have gotten too serious, lately; what ever happened to showing off a game and having fun? Have you even watched half the lps that are up right now? Cause there are plenty of people showing of games and having quite a merry time at it.
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Jun 9, 2012 14:18
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I guess I should have specified the Sandcastle. I guess it just seems as though the standards have gotten really, really high. (Maybe I should follow my own advice and stop reading the Sandcastle  )
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Jun 9, 2012 14:24
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You're the first person I've ever seen suggesting the subforum should have lower standards.
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Jun 9, 2012 14:26
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I could have sworn this came up in the last Sandcastle... I thought Proteus or someone brought it up. I'm not saying we should give a pass on low-effort poo poo, but I think that we should at least relax a little and not demand so much perfection. I guess it is I who am in the minority here, so I guess I'll just give it up. Sorry guys, please carry on. MeccaPrime fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jun 9, 2012 |
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Jun 9, 2012 14:30
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MeccaPrime posted:I guess I should have specified the Sandcastle. I guess it just seems as though the standards have gotten really, really high. Standards seem only to be really high for games people are wary about seeing LPed in general, like Minecraft and Pokemon. Which makes sense, because it takes a lot of work to make those games interesting, considering how repetitive they are and how much they've been done to death. You have to really work to make them entertaining to a large amount of people. That said, I agree with the rest of your points, though that may be because I'm seriously considering an LP idea that's completely ridiculous by all rational standards. I feel just the idea would be entertaining as hell, though, and I won't do it unless I know I could pull it off. I really wouldn't mind seeing more silly stuff, as long as it was well-done of course.
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Jun 9, 2012 14:31
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MeccaPrime posted:I could have sworn this came up in the last Sandcastle... I thought Proteus or someone brought it up. I'm not saying we should give a pass on low-effort poo poo, but I think that we should at least relax a little and demand so much perfection. He did. That was the entire drat point of the Devolution thread a few years ago.
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Jun 9, 2012 14:33
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flatluigi posted:You're the first person I've ever seen suggesting the subforum should have lower standards. He is by no means the first, I remember Psychadelic Eyeball having something of a rant a while back about how some people expect their LP's to be flawless diamonds of technical perfection. He fingered that as something that took him out of LPing for a while and I can kinda see why. It's good to have standards, but it's also important to make sure those standards aren't so high that they're stupidly imposing to newcomers.
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Jun 9, 2012 14:37
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That's a totally different subject. More of an issue having to do with the expectations of the fan base LPers make for themselves. It does suck, especially when LPers are trying to do something that's just a different approach. The T40 guys got absolutely poo poo on for trying to actually make something that was less podcast like that involved more post-production. But this is not one of those things. This is a guy posting something that is no different than any of the other Minecraft LPs on youtube. Dragoon Cody posted:It doesn't seem to be doing too bad for itself - the thread's been out for less than a day and there's been ~1000 video views and a couple of pages of complimentary comments on the video/people saying they'd follow the LP already, and viewer suggestions is a time-honored SA tradition. Neither of the things you bring up seem to be negative as LPs go. Viewer Interactive Minecraft LP is also a time honored youtube tradition of wanna-be internet celebs. dave_o's thread is basically BYOB in LP form. I hope that's the meta-joke concept behind the LP itself, but I don't really plan on reading the thread/watching the videos any longer to find out. If he's unironically LPing Minecraft, then he's not really doing anything original or interesting and people shouldn't be upset if he gets called out for doing so.
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Jun 9, 2012 15:21
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The only standard we should have is the eternal question "is it entertaining", with the singular addition of "for people on this forum". We know that YouTube's community will watch pretty much anything, and we despise that and hate ourselves for only getting a fraction of the viewcount abloo bloo, thing is, we are a different community here, fact. So yes, you can't just produce whatever and expect people in general here to like it. On the other hand, we're not a single block of people having a single opinion on things. Some people here like blind LPs. Some like narrative LPs. Some like informative, 100% runs. To each his own. As long as someone here likes it, why shouldn't a guy be allowed to post his thread? It was pretty 50-50 from a casual glance, there's absolutely no need to get upset...other people were told to not do Minecraft because nobody liked what they were doing. Some like what dave does, case closed in my opinion. It's worth pointing out that there is a certain hypocrisy involved, because goons in general and the LP forum in particular have giant superiority complex. Just as a reminder. No need to twist it into "but then have everyone judged by the highest standards", though. That feeds that poo poo.
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Jun 9, 2012 15:35
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I think the Sandcastle is just really inconsistent. The posts that get most attention are either ones from the more popular LP'ers, LP's of specific games or genres or from newcomers who don't quite get it yet but get dog-piled because of their regdate. Everything else is usually met with indifference or a little advice and maybe someone will say that you shouldn't post the thread if the LP has problems. No-one actually cares about what's going on in LP, but they all want to share their two cents on whatever inane thing came up.Simply Simon posted:...and we despise that and hate ourselves for only getting a fraction of the viewcount abloo bloo... Most YouTube LP'ers don't get many views.
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Jun 9, 2012 16:27
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Vinestalk posted:Viewer Interactive Minecraft LP is also a time honored youtube tradition of wanna-be internet celebs. In which case those Youtubers have caught onto a good thing - one of the pieces of advice I got at SA a long time ago was that "one of the main differences between us and Youtube is the audience participation" and that was one reason people didn't like full LP dumps. Once again, I'm not seeing anything negative about the things being brought up, other than that you're implying that it's like a Youtube LP, which isn't even an insult because the whole thing about the Youtube community is that the quality varies wildly, and it's no bad thing to be like a technically-sound, entertaining Youtube LP, especially when there's clearly a community here enjoying his videos. If there were technical problems or problems with the commentary (i.e. a bad Youtube LP), then it would be legitimate to criticize the thread being made. But, if it's a quality enjoyable video of its category and the fuss is that it just doesn't have enough bells and whistles and graphs to satisfy some superiority complex about the Youtube community, I don't think that's a legitimate critique of the thread. Dragoon Cody fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jun 9, 2012 |
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Jun 9, 2012 17:06
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MeccaPrime posted:I could have sworn this came up in the last Sandcastle... I thought Proteus or someone brought it up. I'm not saying we should give a pass on low-effort poo poo, but I think that we should at least relax a little and not demand so much perfection. I don't think you are alone, because I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the purpose of the 2007 thread was. To show off that stuff like that still has a place here. EDIT: Whoops, someone already said that.
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Jun 9, 2012 17:18
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Uhhh, it's low effort and it's boring. Those are two negatives right there. He even calls the game "adult legos with mini games," in his own video. I don't think it's entertaining and that's why I compared it to the vast majority of (Minecraft) Youtube LPs. But thanks for the summary on the Youtube LP community. Keep fighting for Youtube LPer rights. And viewer interaction for the sake of "SUBZ AND FAVES," on a (Minecraft) Youtube LP does not seem at all similar to the viewer interaction I've seen in SA threads.
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Jun 9, 2012 17:29
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You're welcome to find it boring. That's not the discussion we've been having though. We're talking about what qualifies it to be a thread, not whether everyone enjoys the style.Vinestalk posted:And viewer interaction for the sake of "SUBZ AND FAVES," on a (Minecraft) Youtube LP does not seem at all similar to the viewer interaction I've seen in SA threads. That's great, but you specifically quoted the idea of his viewer interactivity to negatively compare it to Youtube, and now you're saying that they're completely different since obviously Dave is not looking for "SUBS AND FAVES" by being interactive. Looks like you backpedaled into agreeing with my point. 
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Jun 9, 2012 17:47
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MeccaPrime posted:Sandcastle (Edited as per what you said in your next post) seems to have gotten too serious, lately; what ever happened to showing off a game and having fun? Bringing a test to the Sandcastle is to first ensure that the quality is good enough for the forums and second to improve the quality even if it is good enough for the forum already. To have the people here who offer critique stop at saying "Your video is good enough, make a thread" Don't blame the critics because they want to help improve quality to move closer to perfection, no one forced anyone to post their test in the Sandcastle, so if you come here, you'd drat well better think that the people will give you pointers to improve your LPs whether they are presentable or not. The issue I have with dave-o's ongoing thread is that he came to the sandcastle, people threw praise his way for an average Minecraft video, then he makes his thread without addressing any concerns outside of saying "Don't worry". And now, people are jumping at Niggurath for pointing out that the videos are not that great. I would say average, maybe giving more credit than Niggurath, but really, the praise he received for the videos is a bit much for what he's put out. In short, the issue is not that the Sandcastle does not allow LPs that are not super serious, but, if dave_o is going to put out the Minecraft LP he made we aren't demanding perfection from him to address some of the issues mentioned here, as it is, though, I feel as if he just used the Sandcastle to say "Hey, I'm back guys, and in about 6 hours, there will be a new thread of me playing Minecraft!"
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Jun 9, 2012 17:51
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MeccaPrime posted:LP seems to have gotten too serious, lately; what ever happened to showing off a game and having fun? That's just what Niggurath does. Vinestalk posted:Uhhh, it's low effort and it's boring. Those are two negatives right there. He even calls the game "adult legos with mini games," in his own video. I don't think it's entertaining and that's why I compared it to the vast majority of (Minecraft) Youtube LPs. But thanks for the summary on the Youtube LP community. Keep fighting for Youtube LPer rights. The dude's presentable, and he consistently edits out the exceedingly boring bits. I fail to see what's wrong with a happy stonery fellow who happily plays Minecraft.
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Jun 9, 2012 17:57
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Lizard Wizard posted:The dude's presentable, and he consistently edits out the exceedingly boring bits. I fail to see what's wrong with a happy stonery fellow who happily plays Minecraft. You haven't watched either his second or third videos then, the second was boring enough that I turned it off and the third is him looking for cave for about 70% of it and, guess what, he never finds it! How is looking for a cave and not finding it not exceedingly boring?
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Jun 9, 2012 18:02
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Lizard Wizard posted:The dude's presentable, and he consistently edits out the exceedingly boring bits. I fail to see what's wrong with a happy stonery fellow who happily plays Minecraft. Because his video is so boring as to be free internet Ambien. When told his video is so boring, he offhandedly rejects criticism and has a legion of fans proclaim his name as though it makes his video an untouchable golden calf. When this happens in the sandcastle something is wrong.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:02
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Pointers to improve your LPs are great - I don't think anyone has argued over whether test posts should be critiqued. If someone has a way to improve a thread, they should bring it up. However, a lot of the issues that people are bringing up (I don't like Minecraft LPs / this reminds me of Youtube / etc) are not things Dave can change and thus are about as helpful to Dave as "it's good" or "I don't like it", which is to say, not at all. By all means, if anyone feels that their legitimate tip for Dave to improve his video has been missed in the hubbub, they should bring it up. There's no intent to stop people from improving the LP here, just some concern that some of the responses are irrelevant or unhelpful. Edit: I'm not a "fan" by the way, I hadn't heard of him before this discussion - I just disagreed with points being made in this thread, so please don't try to turn the argument into being about that. People are legitimately enjoying his videos there, it's not a protection racket conspiracy for someone to find a video more interesting than you do. Dragoon Cody fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jun 9, 2012 |
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Jun 9, 2012 18:03
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Guys holy poo poo get over it. Who cares that much? You. Should you? Absolutely loving not. If you don't like the LP, that's fine. It can exist despite your own dislike. There's lots of LPs that exist that I don't care for for a myriad of reasons. I'm sure I have been involved in LPs that some of you rather disliked, too! The point of the Sandcastle is criticism and discussion. This really is not that. Dave_o has his thread, people will either watch his LP or not at this point, the applicability of suggestions/criticism or whatever have passed. Move on.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:07
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Dragoon Cody posted:Pointers to improve your LPs are great - I don't think anyone has argued over whether test posts should be critiqued. If someone has a way to improve a thread, they should bring it up. However, a lot of the issues that people are bringing up (I don't like Minecraft LPs / this reminds me of Youtube / etc) are not things Dave can change and thus are about as helpful to Dave as "it's good" or "I don't like it", which is to say, not at all. But, the whole issue is people have been asking him to show us it will be different from other Minecraft LPs, and his response was "Don't worry, bro, I got this" or some dodgy poo poo like that. What the hell can we say other than, this looks like a pretty typical Minecraft LP? My legitimate tip is, tell us how this is going to be different, then show us that it will be different.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:07
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Brassherald posted:You haven't watched either his second or third videos then, the second was boring enough that I turned it off and the third is him looking for cave for about 70% of it and, guess what, he never finds it! How is looking for a cave and not finding it not exceedingly boring? Boy is that ever an assumption. The guy never finds a cave or anything, but hey, he's a decent public speaker. If it makes you feel better, I'm terribly, horribly sorry for liking his commentary style, and I apologize for all the earth-shattering emotional distress his videos have caused you. Brassherald posted:My legitimate tip is, tell us how this is going to be different, then show us that it will be different. No loving clue! I just like the happy stonerish guy playing Minecraft.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:09
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Brassherald posted:But, the whole issue is people have been asking him to show us it will be different from other Minecraft LPs, and his response was "Don't worry, bro, I got this" or some dodgy poo poo like that. What the hell can we say other than, this looks like a pretty typical Minecraft LP? Please stop the derail guys. I posted to see if the quality of the video (visual, audio) was okay. I love criticism and take it to heart, I'm a musician in real life so this is a very familiar concept to me. However, I don't publish my set list and all the cool secrets I have for the show, before I play, you know? Feel free to disregard the thread, but make room in the Sandcastle for some of the folks I've seen asking for help who got ignored by this silliness.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:11
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abloobloobloobloobloo You guys keep demanding difference but don't tell him what to change. You're like a teenaged girlfriend demanding her pizza-faced boyfriemd read her mind. A good relationship takes communication, guys. Let's talk to him and tell him how we feel and what he can do to make us feel better. That sound good?
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Jun 9, 2012 18:13
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dave_o posted:However, I don't publish my set list and all the cool secrets I have for the show, before I play, you know? Feel free to disregard the thread, but make room in the Sandcastle for some of the folks I've seen asking for help who got ignored by this silliness. Yeah, agreed. If you have problems with dave_o's LP, take it to his LP thread, and let's let newcomers have their say. After all, we all paid $10 to be treated like civilized people, now let's act like it 
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Jun 9, 2012 18:24
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Zorak posted:Guys holy poo poo get over it. Who cares that much? You. Should you? Absolutely loving not. Yo guys this was me telling you to stop talking about this. In case it wasn't clear enough or something.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:40
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ungulateman posted:Apologies for double posting, but I'm not going to get much attention if I just edit my post, am I? For some reason, by the way, some of the pictures are missing in the middle of your screens. If you look, Protector looks like it actually says Pro'ector. Not sure if this is a resize issue or what, but definitely something to look into.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:54
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ungulateman posted:Apologies for double posting, but I'm not going to get much attention if I just edit my post, am I? In addition to the whole not using a filter when resizing thing, you should also go ahead and resize the shots with both screens on them. It's not as absurd in execution as it seems. It's jarring to go from being able to comfortably read text to suddenly having to adjust to read something half as large.
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Jun 9, 2012 19:46
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Dragoon Cody posted:It doesn't seem to be doing too bad for itself - the thread's been out for less than a day and there's been ~1000 video views Video views as proof that an LP is good? What is this, Youtube? Jesus Christ. Artix74 posted:He did. That was the entire drat point of the Devolution thread a few years ago. No. It wasn't. Let me quote from the FIRST SENTENCE of that drat thread. Proteus4994 posted:There's a really high standard in this forum nowadays, and I think that's mostly a good thing. The point of that thread was to show that you can make entertaining videos with less technical effort, which is true, but never once did I say our standards are too high. Edit: The whole time I did that thread I was worried that people would take it as an endorsement to make low effort poo poo LPs. Thankfully, after like pages and pages of me trying to explain it to people like Kite, I thought people finally got it. I'm a little disconcerted to see my worries pop up 2 years after the thread was over. Proteus4994 fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jun 9, 2012 |
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Jun 9, 2012 20:55
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YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON LP PRODUCTION VALUES! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!
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Jun 9, 2012 21:55
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Proteus4994 posted:The idea is that if you're posting your poo poo in the Sandcastle, you want to make a legitimately good LP. You're not trying to do the bare minimum to make an LP that won't technically break any rules. Anyone can make a boring poo poo LP. Why would you want to? Well, some people seem to see posting in the Sandcastle more as a prerequirement and less of a quality check; threads get started in an hour or two after the test post, having received one "looks good" reply. Really obvious issues just go right through when the excitement of opening a new thread takes over. Moskau fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jun 9, 2012 |
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Jun 9, 2012 22:13
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A while back in the old topic, I posted a Super Scribblenauts LP. It was a little bland, I forgot to crop my screenshots, and I didn't really actually have much time to fix it. Now that it's summer, I've had time to attempt to fix all these problems and more. So here's my second try. If it looks good, I'll start working on the tutorial update and post the thread. Super Scribblenauts L-E-T-'-S-P-L-A-Y. Did you mean: Laboratory Animal?  OP World 1, Take 1 The posts will be slightly modified once I finalize the CHALLENGES and other aspects of audience interaction. So anything else I need to fix or work on?
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Jun 9, 2012 23:59
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Color Printer posted:A while back in the old topic, I posted a Super Scribblenauts LP. It was a little bland, I forgot to crop my screenshots, and I didn't really actually have much time to fix it. Now that it's summer, I've had time to attempt to fix all these problems and more. So here's my second try. If it looks good, I'll start working on the tutorial update and post the thread. I really like Super Scribblenauts, and this is a good start. The technical aspects of the LP are solid, I just feel like the commentary is not too entertaining, and maybe for the first update you should instead shorten the length and focus a bit more on writing some comments other than the solutions you are using. I think this could easily be a thread, don't get me wrong, but I would say it needs a bit more... Flair would be a good word for it. Even the solutions as mentioned below me are a bit boring, like the dinosaurs can be beaten with typing in everything or nothing. That's one that no one will know and won't ever know if the LPer does not point it out. Brassherald fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jun 10, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 00:28
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Color Printer posted:A while back in the old topic, I posted a Super Scribblenauts LP. It was a little bland, I forgot to crop my screenshots, and I didn't really actually have much time to fix it. Now that it's summer, I've had time to attempt to fix all these problems and more. So here's my second try. If it looks good, I'll start working on the tutorial update and post the thread. Unfortunately I'm not really finding this all that compelling. All it consists of is, "Here is picture of problem, here is picture of solution." And honestly, I apologize for the rudeness, but you commit the most heinous crime when LPing Scribblenauts. You are boring. These answers are not funny or interesting. It's what anyone's first guesses would be for the most part. I feel this would work best if you do levels in batches of say 5. Present all the problems to the thread and let them make suggestions, then pick the best ones that succeed or fail in spectacular fashion. For instance you kill of the Dinosaurs with a Blizzard. What about Smallpox? Or Swarms of Locusts? Or Robots? Or Hipsters? Or Abraham Lincoln with a Shotgun?
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Jun 10, 2012 00:31
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Random VLP related format question: How long should you keep dialogue presented in text boxes on screen before progressing to the next line? So if I have a line of dialogue that's both voice acted and written out in text, when should I progress to the next one? I was thinking 3 seconds after the line is finished in both text and voice, but I was wondering if there's a "suggested" time gap like with subtitles.JossiRossi posted:I feel this would work best if you do levels in batches of say 5. Present all the problems to the thread and let them make suggestions, then pick the best ones that succeed or fail in spectacular fashion. I kind of like this idea, it sounds like fun.
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Jun 10, 2012 00:35
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Policenaut posted:Random VLP related format question: How long should you keep dialogue presented in text boxes on screen before progressing to the next line? So if I have a line of dialogue that's both voice acted and written out in text, when should I progress to the next one? I was thinking 3 seconds after the line is finished in both text and voice, but I was wondering if there's a "suggested" time gap like with subtitles. If it is both voice acted and in text, I would say when the voice actor is done speaking a slight pause should be fine unless you are talking over them. Most people are probably going to read faster than the voice actor anyway. Though, this is by no means a standard answer, and I don't know if there is one
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Jun 10, 2012 00:39
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JossiRossi posted:I feel this would work best if you do levels in batches of say 5. Present all the problems to the thread and let them make suggestions, then pick the best ones that succeed or fail in spectacular fashion. This is perfect. Do this. Scribblenauts is perhaps the only game goons will be able to vicariously play through thread participation. 
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Jun 10, 2012 00:41
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If the line is voice acted you want to progress without any pause, or else the conversation has a bunch of awkward stops. If it's text-only that's tricky, since everyone reads at a different pace, but I generally prefer too fast to too slow, since it's easy to pause a video but hard to skip ahead just the right amount not to miss lines.
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Jun 10, 2012 00:43
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Color Printer posted:Super Scribblenauts Color Printer posted:
Solution to this exists 
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Jun 10, 2012 00:43
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JossiRossi posted:I feel this would work best if you do levels in batches of say 5. Present all the problems to the thread and let them make suggestions, then pick the best ones that succeed or fail in spectacular fashion. I do like this idea though. 5 or so levels with an example solution (that is not boring) and then take audience suggestions and ideas, which is pretty much what I was planning on doing...only I was doing one whole world at a time and I can see how that would be a nightmare. This is pretty much what you were suggesting, right? JossiRossi posted:Or Abraham Lincoln with a Shotgun? That's a weapon, bub.  Also, I wouldn't call it "rudeness" so much as "brutal honesty" and that is much appreciated. EDIT: Forer posted:Solution to this exists Yeah, I figured there was some way to make a GIF. To the tech support fort I go Color Printer fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jun 10, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 00:46
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