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Crappy Jack posted:Avoiding enemies works basically the same as non-lethal, yeah, but lethal doesn't get nearly as much XP, so you end up limiting yourself that way. Yeah, okay. That does sound right. I don't think it ever bothered me because it rewarded you more for being methodical instead of lazily going the bang-bang route. I'm okay with that. (I played the game through both ways and didn't feel hamstrung either time.)
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Jun 8, 2012 02:37
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I thought the choice in Deus Ex worked perfectly. I preferred stealth but if I had my back up against a wall I could bust out a gun and fight my way to safety. Going 100 percent stealth netted you huge rewards, but wasnt such a huge loss that I felt I had to restart if I only ended up killing 2 guys out of a dozen.
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Jun 8, 2012 05:30
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Shnakepup posted:I wonder if the game will recognize or reward non-violent solutions, though. I know Deus Ex does, at least. But if it's just an option with no clear incentive or recognition, then most people will just go with mindless slaughter if it's easier. Speak for yourself. I have no problem shooting pixelmans, but it's almost always more challenging to avoid it and I prefer a challenge.
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Jun 8, 2012 05:35
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I'm excited about how you can see all those little mundane details of the lives of the NPC's when you hack their phones. If I play this game I'll spend a decent amount of time looking at how much they make and if they're in any trouble or anything. It's like Fable 2 on steroids.
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Jun 8, 2012 05:59
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Chard posted:Speak for yourself. I have no problem shooting pixelmans, but it's almost always more challenging to avoid it and I prefer a challenge. This is very true. I mean, in the majority of Splinter Cell Conviction, it was perfectly alright to play bullet-sponge and shoot everything ever... but I still find myself constantly replaying levels, striving for the fewest kills or detections possible, because being sneaky/subversive is fun. That said, I *would* adore more options on how to handle situations in this game. Perhaps playing a sneaky Jason Bourne, where once it hits the fan, you bust out the lead. Or even pulling a Person of Interest and knee-capping every living thug ever. Or just the ghost-method, where you orchestrate events that never directly reveal yourself by hacking phones, staging car-wrecks, and various other tricks up your sleeve. Rewards or no, different ways to tackle the same problem ala Deus Ex has always been hopelessly addictive to me. I really hope this game is good, because I've already hyped myself up too high. 
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Jun 8, 2012 08:00
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Crappy Jack posted:Avoiding enemies works basically the same as non-lethal, yeah, but lethal doesn't get nearly as much XP, so you end up limiting yourself that way. To be technical: No alarms/confrontations in an area = 200 xp 10 non-lethal takedowns = 200 xp 20 kills = 200 xp EDIT: No, actually I'm completely wrong. Basically you could grind to 200 xp if there are enough guys around, but again, grinding. Szmitten fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Jun 8, 2012 |
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Jun 8, 2012 14:06
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Generic American posted:I really hope this game is good, because I've already hyped myself up too high. I'm trying to keep my hopes under control, but it just looks so cool. If it's little more than cyberpunk GTA4 I'll be satisfied. Any better than that is a bonus.
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Jun 8, 2012 14:24
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Shnakepup posted:I wonder if the game will recognize or reward non-violent solutions, though. I know Deus Ex does, at least. But if it's just an option with no clear incentive or recognition, then most people will just go with mindless slaughter if it's easier. Basically if someone wants to mindlessly slaughter their way through the game, that's their choice, but they'll have to deal with the NPCs treating them as the mass murderer they are, but they should still be getting the same experience points (Or whatever equivalent this game has) as someone who takes a more subtle approach who minimizes the collateral damage. The game reacting to how you play is great, the game rewarding you for playing a specific way not so much.
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Jun 8, 2012 14:41
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I think Alpha Protocol had the best solution. Being aggressive\professional\suave or non-lethal\mass-murdering psycho all gave you different rewards that complemented the way you played the game. Completing a certain number of missions without being noticed for example gave you a bonus to stealth, while killing lots of people with grenades gave you increased grenade carrying capacity.
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Jun 8, 2012 15:26
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Bleusilences posted:I bet this game is like 1313, it's for the next gen hardware where there will be more RAM.  When it's released on PS3 and 360 next year(as it's been announced already), people will still be saying they think it's for next-gen and not current-gen consoles.
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Jun 8, 2012 15:40
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Nightblade posted:I think Alpha Protocol had the best solution. Being aggressive\professional\suave or non-lethal\mass-murdering psycho all gave you different rewards that complemented the way you played the game. Completing a certain number of missions without being noticed for example gave you a bonus to stealth, while killing lots of people with grenades gave you increased grenade carrying capacity. Yeah it is oddly satisfying to get perks in that game. My favorite is the CIA listening post in Rome where you get a perk depending on whether or not you avoid all conflict, stick to non-lethal or use lethal force. Any game with morality should just leave the implications up to you. I think this game will make you feel bad about doing bad things with stuff like the guy freaking out about the woman in the driver's seat. If the game has realistic reactions to you doing horrible poo poo (like if you blow something up and kill a few innocents, the rest start running for their lives and scream in horror), then it should be effective enough without any bad guy meter. I guess take Saints Row where the people you kill have some hilarious wacky thing to say then cartwheel off into the sky while people start taking out camera phones and have their own hilarious wacky phrases. Then push it to the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of attitude. I'm very interested to see what they do with this game.
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Jun 8, 2012 17:18
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I just hope you don't have to shoot every "bad guy" in the game. I'd like something a little different then the open world shooter. Deus Ex:HR got that part right by not forcing me to kill anyone (except the stupid outsourced boss battles).
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Jun 9, 2012 18:15
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DropsySufferer posted:I just hope you don't have to shoot every "bad guy" in the game. I'd like something a little different then the open world shooter. Deus Ex:HR got that part right by not forcing me to kill anyone (except the stupid outsourced boss battles). Maybe you can use your hacking skills to blackmail them about their STDs and get them to stop shooting.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:16
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Maybe you can shoot the gas station next to them, causing it to explode and killing them. Or just shoot the gas tank of the car they're driving, causing it to explode and killing them. Or hack their lucky brick of C4, causing it to explode and killing them. Actually, considering that the gameplay demo didn't even give you a choice about killing the guy (when the player got close, it went into a cutscene where the guy got shot...) I'm not so sure they care about nonlethal methods.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:26
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It certainly looked like the player was obligated to assassinate that guy, so I can understand there being no non-lethal outcome. Do we know if the main character is actually a hitman yet?
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Jun 9, 2012 18:54
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TychoCelchuuu posted:Maybe you can shoot the gas station next to them, causing it to explode and killing them. Or just shoot the gas tank of the car they're driving, causing it to explode and killing them. Or hack their lucky brick of C4, causing it to explode and killing them. Better yet how about hacking or just calling the police about some bank robbers using automatic weapons and then just sitting back and watching SWAT gun them all down.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:58
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Nail Rat posted:
Probably because it will also be released on next gen consoles at the same time. I suspect it will be like Hitman Blood Money or Splinter Cell Double Agent. Ubisoft is being very cagey about what platforms it will be on, despite them announcing for ps3, 360, and PC. Also, the announcement that it will be released in 2013 was just a tweet that was taken down very quickly, so who knows? DropsySufferer posted:I just hope you don't have to shoot every "bad guy" in the game. I'd like something a little different then the open world shooter. Deus Ex:HR got that part right by not forcing me to kill anyone (except the stupid outsourced boss battles). They do a non-lethal takedown of the guard in the back of the club. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jun 9, 2012 |
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Jun 9, 2012 19:19
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DropsySufferer posted:Better yet how about hacking or just calling the police about some bank robbers using automatic weapons and then just sitting back and watching SWAT gun them all down. I don't have an issue with killing your targets, I don't even have an issue with doing it by shooting them in the face. What I don't like is having to shoot through a legion of pointless faceless mooks to get to them.
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Jun 9, 2012 19:23
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Flamadiddle posted:It certainly looked like the player was obligated to assassinate that guy, so I can understand there being no non-lethal outcome. Do we know if the main character is actually a hitman yet? The feel I got, based on the dialogue in the 'credits' portion, was that he was some kind of vigilante. Or, if not that, believed he had some cause to go put a pair in this guy's skull. Or he's a terrorist. It's pretty much a terrorists' wet dream to be able to control societies infrastructure like that. After all, why build bombs when you can just turn all the traffic lights to green and cause fatal pileups at every intersection? What his cause is is completely unknown right now though, at least from my perspective. They really gave us just enough to speculate on.
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Jun 9, 2012 19:47
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Yeah, I assume a big part of the game is you killing bad dudes who have escaped the system, hence "Watch Dogs". You use your cyber hacking skills to uncover a web of corruption and find the bad guys that the law can't touch and punish them for their crimes sort of thing. At the beginning of the trailer, there's the narration where your guy is talking about how he knows what they did, and it shows the guy colluded with murderers and had the charges dropped or whatever, so it's quite likely you're doing the vigilante thing. And that's fine, but like was said, I kinda wish you did it in a more unique way than gunning down nameless mooks to get close to your target. Which is entirely likely, but I'd like to see it before I start getting too excited.
Crappy Jack fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jun 9, 2012 |
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Jun 9, 2012 19:49
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Crappy Jack posted:Yeah, I assume a big part of the game is you killing bad dudes who have escaped the system, hence "Watch Dogs". You use your cyber hacking skills to uncover a web of corruption and find the bad guys that the law can't touch and punish them for their crimes sort of thing. And that's fine, but like was said, I kinda wish you did it in a more unique way than gunning down nameless mooks to get close to your target. Which is entirely likely, but I'd like to see it before I start getting too excited. You may have to wait a while. I doubt they show the game publicly again until maybe GDC next year. Maaaybe Pax Prime on labor day weekend but I doubt it, that's just a few months away and they wont have anything new to show, and Ubisoft would probably rather use that time showing AC3.
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Jun 9, 2012 19:51
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Bobnumerotres posted:The only game I can think of with NPCs that have schedules is Majora's mask, but that was a simple system because at time X every NPC was at position Y, and would completely ignore any (player created) random variables, like if you tried to get in front of the mail man he would push right through you. A more recent game, Deadly Premonition had NPC schedules. But yeah, it only works with limited NPCs for the time being.
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Jun 9, 2012 21:28
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Maybe because you hunt down people you can just disable all the guards and bystanders but have to kill your targets because that's the whole goal of the character and he obviously doesn't trust the government to keep them locked up etc.
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Jun 9, 2012 21:38
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Woohoo posted:Actually, I've been wondering why we don't have autonomous NPC's yet? You mean why we don't have autonomous NPC's anymore? Ultima V had daily routines for NPCs back in 1988. The answer is of course "because video games are for teenagers that just want to kill poo poo". Designing the routines is also expensive especially in big games and doesn't show off well in screenshots and videos.
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Jun 10, 2012 12:33
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Hob_Gadling posted:You mean why we don't have autonomous NPC's anymore? Ultima V had daily routines for NPCs back in 1988. The answer is of course "because video games are for teenagers that just want to kill poo poo". Designing the routines is also expensive especially in big games and doesn't show off well in screenshots and videos. You could literally trace this descent into awful progression from around the time when EA bought Origins and the two last Ultima games came out awful and did not progress the industry like they wanted to.
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Jun 10, 2012 12:47
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I think the issue is that, unlike pretty much everything else, AI hasn't progressed since the 90's. There's no real technological bottleneck, and there have been huge crowd AI tech demos around for years now, it's just time consuming, and therefore expensive to implement a complex and nuanced system.
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Jun 10, 2012 12:56
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Nightblade posted:I think Alpha Protocol had the best solution. Being aggressive\professional\suave or non-lethal\mass-murdering psycho all gave you different rewards that complemented the way you played the game. Completing a certain number of missions without being noticed for example gave you a bonus to stealth, while killing lots of people with grenades gave you increased grenade carrying capacity.
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Jun 10, 2012 12:57
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Dr Solway Garr posted:I think the issue is that, unlike pretty much everything else, AI hasn't progressed since the 90's. There's no real technological bottleneck, and there have been huge crowd AI tech demos around for years now, it's just time consuming, and therefore expensive to implement a complex and nuanced system.
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Jun 10, 2012 15:43
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I think AI is perfectly possible to impress people with in trailers and such, one of the major selling points for FEAR was its AI and it was heavily marketed as being a good looking game with good AI. Sure in hindsight the AI did not prove to be revolutionary, but the illusion was there and it did prove that people in fact want to play games with good AI.
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Jun 10, 2012 15:54
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Smart Car posted:It's why there's so little freedom for the player in a lot of games, it makes it easier to keep the graphical quality high while giving an illusion of the AI routines being complex. This is why I'm fearful of the Watch Dogs demo. The graphics quality feels way to high for a game that supposed to give you a lot of freedom.
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Jun 10, 2012 16:40
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New screenshot. Yeah, just one.
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Jun 23, 2012 03:00
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TychoCelchuuu posted:New screenshot. Yeah, just one. Wow there's so much artifacting going on there its hard to judge just how bad stuff like Dithering will be.
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Jun 23, 2012 03:13
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If I wanted to see a blurry pixelated picture of the el I'd use Google Image Search.
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Jun 23, 2012 05:42
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Man I see those buildings and I just think 'Ezio could climb that'
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Jun 24, 2012 11:26
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That reminds me, in the E3 presentation they showed a dude climbing up some poo poo and vaulting over a fence. I wonder how in depth the climbing/HARDCORE PARKOUR system will be? gently caress I'm excited for this game. 
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Jun 24, 2012 12:07
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procitizen posted:That reminds me, in the E3 presentation they showed a dude climbing up some poo poo and vaulting over a fence. I wonder how in depth the climbing/HARDCORE PARKOUR system will be? gently caress I'm excited for this game. If it's anything like Assassin's Creed, I'm just going to marry the game. 
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Jun 24, 2012 12:29
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If I can throw money to lead civilians into traffic, then my gaming life will be complete.
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Jun 24, 2012 12:34
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Chief Savage Man posted:If I can throw money to lead civilians into traffic, then my gaming life will be complete. Turning the crosswalk signs to WALK so unsuspecting pedestrians fiddling with their cellphones waltz into oncoming traffic.
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Jun 24, 2012 12:51
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Crappy Jack posted:Avoiding enemies works basically the same as non-lethal, yeah, but lethal doesn't get nearly as much XP, so you end up limiting yourself that way. The idea is, if you're going non-lethal, you'll need more tricks to get around people, ie, experience. If you're going lethal, you'll need more bang to get through people, ie guns, ammo and money. There's not too many augs that directly augment gunplay.
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Jun 24, 2012 23:13
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TychoCelchuuu posted:New screenshot. Yeah, just one. Looks like Nico can't escape his CAHZIN calling him even when he escapes to a whole other game.
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Jun 24, 2012 23:28
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