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Even if the Legion's policies end up being good for humanity, and even if not everyone in the Legion necessarily agrees with them, at the end of the day there is only one faction in the Mojave that thinks it is acceptable to deliberately enact the premeditated sacking, torture, and murder of an entire town, and that is them, and that is very, very bad to do. I mean for a very narrow, pedantic definition of what is "evil", I guess I can see not calling Caesar evil in the sense that somehow in his mind he thinks he is doing the world a favor, but in order to arrive at that conclusion he has to start from a mindset which does not empathize with the rights and feelings of individuals or feel compassion for the suffering that he causes, and that fits what I think is probably a much more common definition of evil. Also I'm going to note that, while I was originally playing to go wild card, I ended up siding with the Legion on my first playthrough. I accepted his invitation just to hear what he had to say, because I wanted to learn more about the Legion and what made them tick (Even though I had instinctively massacred Vulpes in Nipton), and all his gibberish about Pax Romana and crossing the Rubicon made me nod my head and, in the context of the wasteland, seemed like a solid plan. It may have had something to do with the fact that I had the game mailed to me while I was cave-diving in Afghanistan. TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 10:34
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All you people talking up the Legion being evil seem to have missed the fact that wearing a crimson half-cape, a ballistic fist and some stunna shades is the coolest loving post-apocalyptic uniform. The Centurion uniform cobbled together from power armor and super mutant armor then given a Roman makeover is a close second. Caesar's Legion: most fashionable faction, best faction  Eiba posted:I think it's funny when people condemn and hate the NCR, because they are literally present day America. Obviously it's a parallel, and I think you'll find very few peeps on the forums talking about the virtues of the American government or whatever, but NCR is markedly worse in a few ways. Forced conscription, doing hard time and being thrown in with all the psychopaths for relatively minor offenses, etc. I would probably call it a blend of the injustices and corruption associated with western democracy spanning the last two hundred years or so.
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Jun 14, 2012 13:18
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Wolfsheim posted:doing hard time and being thrown in with all the psychopaths for relatively minor offenses, etc. This happens in America. Normal people with an ounce of weed or whatever on them, or even people who are wrongfully arrested and have to wait in jail with Bonified Crazy Motherfuckers or go to prison with Bonified Crazy Motherfuckers. I'm very sorry I broke the thread and started the discussion about Legion morals vs. NCR morals. All I'm going to say is that the NCR has relatively good intentions, to secure and protect people (but make them pay taxes regardless of their welfare), and any horrible poo poo is usually due to corruption or human error. The legion pretty much says "we are killing and raping everyone just to show that we are strong." It's no contest as to who is outright loving evil and who is at least trying to be good. extremebuff fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 14:07
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Wolfsheim posted:Caesar's Legion: most fashionable faction, best faction Yeah? Well, you know who else had the snazziest faction uniforms? That's right... 
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Jun 14, 2012 14:18
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Is Very Hard actually rewarding to play on either 3 or NV? What's the difference in difficulty scales? I'm hoping it's not just making enemies bullet sponges and something more.
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Jun 14, 2012 15:35
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Bobnumerotres posted:I'm very sorry I broke the thread and started the discussion about Legion morals vs. NCR morals. You really don't have to worry about it. I'm sure it would've/has-been brought up multiple times already as a few people have suggested. That being said, throwing Lee Oliver off the dam is probably the greatest thing in the game. TexMexFoodbaby fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 16:01
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FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:Is Very Hard actually rewarding to play on either 3 or NV? What's the difference in difficulty scales? I'm hoping it's not just making enemies bullet sponges and something more. That's about what it does, and you take more damage. You don't receive any more rewards or XP, so I don't really see the purpose because enemies become bullet spongy by about level 30 anyway.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:03
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Mr E posted:That's about what it does, and you take more damage. You don't receive any more rewards or XP, so I don't really see the purpose because enemies become bullet spongy by about level 30 anyway. That's your cue to start using the ARM as a battle rifle.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:11
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FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:Is Very Hard actually rewarding to play on either 3 or NV? What's the difference in difficulty scales? I'm hoping it's not just making enemies bullet sponges and something more. It just makes enemies mountains of beefcake while you are made more frail. So you're forced to use grenades and your "oh poo poo" weapons in..basically every situation where enemies are at your level.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:17
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Bobnumerotres posted:It just makes enemies mountains of beefcake while you are made more frail. Eh, I won't bother then. Thanks for the responses all.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:18
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War Pig posted:For the life of me, as determined as I ever get to play a power armor clad, energy weapon wielding dynamo, I just can't pull myself away from the conventional guns. They're just so... visceral. I am odd in that I am the opposite. I usually end up with an idea and gravitate towards a (mad) scientist pew-pew type.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:19
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FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:Is Very Hard actually rewarding to play on either 3 or NV? What's the difference in difficulty scales? I'm hoping it's not just making enemies bullet sponges and something more. A better way to up the difficulty is to use rope kid's mod. Enemies don't become bullet sponges, but your hit points are halved, which is approximately equal to Very Hard's double damage towards the player. You also get a bunch of bug fixes and restored content with it, which is nice. Smol fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 16:33
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Playing OWB now. Oh my God, Muggy!  And gently caress Roboscorpions.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:44
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SplitSoul posted:And gently caress Roboscorpions. I thought they were pretty easy. But I was playing melee, and everything is easy when you're playing melee. 
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Jun 14, 2012 16:51
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Fintilgin posted:I thought they were pretty easy. Even with Elijah's LAER they take a shitload of punishment.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:54
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SplitSoul posted:Even with Elijah's LAER they take a shitload of punishment. I'm about to go into this DLC, and I'll bring the pulse gun, and the paladin toaster, I should be good, right?
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Jun 14, 2012 17:02
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Paladin Toaster is that EMP melee weapon, right? You should be okay. OWB is built around energy weapons and melee. THe spawn mechanisms and enemies really do lead to melee weapons a lot of the time. My sneaky guns character with no melee skill started carrying around an Inversal Axe (from OWB) just to deal with the roboscorpions. Someone with a high melee skill will be in heaven.
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Jun 14, 2012 17:05
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So what's the goon consensus on that hardcore mod that dude that worked on the game released some months back?
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Jun 14, 2012 17:20
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The reason why the Legion is morally black is for all Caesar's talk of hegelian dialetics or what have you, who in the Legion actually believes in any of that poo poo? Or even knows what the hell he's talking about, since he's deliberately restricted access to books and education for his Legion? Oh sure they're all behind his very general STRONG SURVIVE WEAK ARE TOOLS/FOOD FOR THE STRONG mode of behavior, but they don't believe in Caesar's ideology. They just believe in Caesar.
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Jun 14, 2012 17:23
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Robyn posted:So what's the goon consensus on that hardcore mod that dude that worked on the game released some months back? The J.E. Sawyer mod? I just started a hardcore melee/explosives character run with it and I'm enjoying the challenge. At lower levels using psycho and med-x was a necessity in order to survive, and the lower number of stimpacks made the survival skill more useful for multiple healing sources. The challenge has kind of evaporated now that I have a katana, stonewall and piercing strike perks, and Anabelle, but that said deathclaws will still one-shot me and I still have all of the non-HH DLC to do.
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Jun 14, 2012 17:43
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Robyn posted:So what's the goon consensus on that hardcore mod that dude that worked on the game released some months back? The one that JE Sawyer made? I never tried it, but there's a review here that you might find interesting or terrible. rocketrobot fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 17:44
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The jesawyer mod is awesome, I never play without it. It's led to me enjoying New Vegas far longer than I normally would have.
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Jun 14, 2012 18:10
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FauxGateau posted:Fake EDIT: ^^^ Jesus Christ! Zigzag Marzah is a silly name! I-er... I mean man that's bad and stuff. Makes Caesar look like a candy man by a terrible comparison. You think that's silly? Liberia is the grundel of the world, but what else do you expect from a nation that started as a "take the slaves back to Africa" movement? Apparently they expected the slaves to be appreciative and kiss the ground at their feet, but they promptly took everything they had learned in America and enslaved the indigenous people. Liberia is an absolute hellhole where mostly unorganized war is constantly waged by competing warlords who take names to strike terror into the heart of their enemies. Examples include: General Rambo, General Bin Laden, General Butt Naked (who, with his soldiers, charges into battle naked as he believes it makes him impervious to bullets), General Mosquito (as mosquitos cause malaria, a high cause of death, so they're quite terrifying to Liberians I guess), and his greatest rival General Mosquito Spray. Oh, and pretty much the entire country has either raped someone or been raped and has tasted human flesh at least once. Many of the soldiers (mostly child soldiers) practice ritualistic cannibalism as they believe it gives them power or even makes them invincible in battle. Many citizens sleep in dug out graves simply because there's nowhere to sleep. And they poo poo on the beach, where the leader of the country can be seen on occasion popping a squat for a photo-op with the people. So if you're interested in post-apocalyptic fiction and wonder what would really happen in the event of a complete social collapse then check out some documentaries about Liberia because the place isn't very far off from a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Vice magazine does a good documentary on Liberia if you can find it. If none of this sounds insane enough, part of the documentary includes an interview with a boy no older than eleven or twelve who, in between nods after smoking cocaine (to which he excitedly exclaims "the cocaine it make you high!") recalls raping "the big bellied woman" at knife point-- a pregnant woman. He's a kid himself. I'm sorry for going on about Liberia for so long, but I was pretty damned shocked to think a place like this exists in the world. I mean, you make your assumptions about places, but seeing it is a whole other deal. I feel it's relevant to the Fallout discussion as if a hellhole like this can exist in the present day then really, how much of a stretch are roving bands of Rome-inspired LARPers trying to conquer a Vegas filled with people emulating a culture and time period they don't fully understand?
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Jun 14, 2012 18:41
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FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:Is Very Hard actually rewarding to play on either 3 or NV? What's the difference in difficulty scales? I'm hoping it's not just making enemies bullet sponges and something more. Others have already chimed in, but the bullet sponginess isn't nearly as bad as it is in Fallout 3. It's the only way I play, because it actually makes stuff like bypassing DT and effectively using criticals/etc actually important. Some enemies like deathclaws still take a bit to go down (but it seems like they should, really) but you're not going to be running into human enemies that you just empty round after round into if you're using the right ammo types/etc. The only instances of "ugh, gently caress these bullet sponge motherfuckers" I've had with it is OWB, but that was quickly mitigated by the proton axe. The only downside is that playing this way kinda downplays the benefits of heavy armor/etc playthroughs, since you're giving up faster movement speed, a perk that boosts your crit rate, no sneaking, all of that, which is really the only way to level the playing field on Very Hard. Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 18:42
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What's the absolute highest you can get your crit chance and how? Luck 10 + Lucky Shades I would guess, or do the shades have no effect if you already have 10 luck? Plus Graham's(?) armor gives you +5 I think.
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Jun 14, 2012 19:52
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OctaviusBeaver posted:What's the absolute highest you can get your crit chance and how? Luck 10 + Lucky Shades I would guess, or do the shades have no effect if you already have 10 luck? Plus Graham's(?) armor gives you +5 I think. SPECIAL caps at 10, no matter what. 1st Recon Beret gives a +2, doesn't it?
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Jun 14, 2012 19:54
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Looking at the wiki it seems like the highest base crit chance is gonna be 10% from 10 luck, 5% from the beret, 5% from armor, 5% from finesse and 3% from Built to Destroy = 28%. With the two laser-related perks you can get up to 42% for laser weapons, and then read a True Police Stories with Comprehension for another 10%, bringing you to 52%. Factor in the crit rate from the weapon itself and you'll be getting A Whole Bunch of Crits.
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Jun 14, 2012 20:05
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Robyn posted:So what's the goon consensus on that hardcore mod that dude that worked on the game released some months back? It's great. Also, he was the lead designer and posts here as Rope Kid. Bobnumerotres posted:It just makes enemies mountains of beefcake while you are made more frail. Counterpoint: It makes the game slightly less trivially easy
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Jun 14, 2012 20:14
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Counterpoint: Counter-Counterpoint: If you're playing on PC, installing a mod is the correct way to increase the game's difficulty. 
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Jun 14, 2012 21:35
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Working on a new character and I'm ashamed to admit that I went console kill on the giant rats. Hardcore + Varmint Rifle + JSawyer Mod + Hard Mode = invincible rodents who laugh at my attempts at stealth. Anyone else ever just give up and console kill an entire area?
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Jun 15, 2012 06:21
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A Dapper Walrus posted:Working on a new character and I'm ashamed to admit that I went console kill on the giant rats. Hardcore + Varmint Rifle + JSawyer Mod + Hard Mode = invincible rodents who laugh at my attempts at stealth. Just use lucky for those sweet sweet criticals.
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Jun 15, 2012 06:57
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Counter-Counterpoint: Counterpoint: Self imposed challenges are the most effective means of increasing a game's difficulty. Try playing without stimpacks and chems!
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Jun 15, 2012 17:19
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Merry Magpie posted:Counterpoint: That was one of my first characters, actually. A beady-eyed herbalist who never touched stimpaks, chems, alcohol, pre-war food, or "futuristic" weapons. I called him "The Sin Eater" because also, he ate people. Playing Dead Money in hardcore mode was...interesting. I had to eat the Ghost People and cockroaches for food and health.
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Jun 15, 2012 18:49
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:That was one of my first characters, actually. A beady-eyed herbalist who never touched stimpaks, chems, alcohol, pre-war food, or "futuristic" weapons. I called him "The Sin Eater" because also, he ate people. Playing Dead Money in hardcore mode was...interesting. I had to eat the Ghost People and cockroaches for food and health. Might as well add to the role-playing pile. I had an old grizzled man as my second character. He had low strength and couldn't move every fast due to age. But he was a clever and charismatic man that could get whatever he wanted, my insane game of pretend had him being a hold over from the Enclave. He was (supposedly) one of the grunts that got out of dodge while the Chosen One was nuking the Oil Rig to dust. So he became a courier to hide away from anyone looking for the Enclave separatists. Then he got shot in the head and decided to take up his armor again. Only a bunch of Deathclaws nested where he hid it... So there's my silly I guess you could view that as a sell-imposed challenge considering that he literally had 2 in strength, endurance, and agility. It went about as well as expected. I'm not really good at building characters...
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Jun 15, 2012 19:12
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Counter-Counterpoint: The best thing I ever did for Fallout 3 was install a mod that heavily increased damage for all weapons. This meant: 1) I had to play the game as a scrounger, stealthing my way across the world, stealing what I could to survive 2) I took my time thoroughly exploring (and thus seeing a lot of detail I would have otherwise missed) 3) I avoided a whole lot of encounters where the odds weren't in my favor (ie where there were more than two enemies) 4) I learned to like it when my bullets kill people, as opposed to putting seven or eight .45 caliber slugs into a raider. (Incidentally, the only things that took a lot of rounds to kill were deathclaws and super mutants, which seemed more than fair). Finding similar mods for New Vegas, in addition to Hardcore mode,* made the game into a long and suspenseful McCarthy-esque journey though a desert wasteland where I seriously had to weigh my choices before deciding on a course of action (and, because of the excellent writing, where I felt like each choice had weight and consequence on the people of the Mojave). I guess that kind of gameplay isn't always guaranteed to be a surefire hit, so I understand why it wasn't part of the default package, but goddamn, it got me invested in the game in a way very few ever have. *hardcore is one of those things like the realistic setting in Deus Ex; I saw it, had to try it, never played any other way since.
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Jun 15, 2012 19:15
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I don't wanna boast or something but with jsawyer and hardest difficulty&hardcore, around midgame on my current playthrough I ended up with stuff like 30x psycho, mentats etc. in my inventory because I simply never need them for anything. Jsawyer made combat harder in the sense that you're more fragile, so you either survive the encounter or you don't and have to reload/retry. Chems don't really tip the scale in my opinion. Sadly also from the few playthroughs I started and didn't finish, no matter what I wanted to play, I always end up as Mr./Mrs. charismatic-intelligent-scienceface-who-is-good-at-sneaking I guess this is also the most effective combination in this game, seeing as I have never problems with it. If I ever play through NV again though, I already know the next playthrough will use the survival skill heavily, there are so many nice things you can cook up I never used, also poisons. I also want to try an explosives-only playthrough, it really sounds like it could be a lot of fun. What also makes me not to want to use chems is the addiction. I don't have a problem with addiction in the game, I just find the system really pointless and annoying. You get a permanent debuff you can hardly work against with how long chems work as you'd even work through a huge stack of chems in no time, also you can get it cured without any downside at every doctor for a few caps, which make the whole thing just feel utterly pointless. I would like if "withdrawal"-debuffs wouldn't set in directly after the chem stopped working, but only after a while, making a playstyle where you have to manage finding&taking your drug of choice viable. Also the easy cure should be out, making chem addiction a more long-term, strategic thing to deal with. Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jun 15, 2012 |
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Jun 15, 2012 19:21
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Police Automaton posted:
This is just an offhand pitch--I'm sure somebody could poke holes in it at this stage--but I think the whole chems system would benefit from chems being made very uncommon and valuable, somewhat like they were in FO1 + FO2. Instead of lasting for 15-30 in-game minutes, they would last for 3 or 4 in-game hours or more (depending on the drug), and withdrawal symptoms would be more significant than they already are*, due to the fact that you're less likely to become addicted because you're eating fewer drugs. Likewise, Fixer would be rarer and more valuable, and it would be more expensive for doctors to free you of your habits. Since it simply gives you AP, things like Jet would still be common enough to blast through--the reasoning being that it's being manufactured in the Wasteland, unlike prewar medications. *FO3 and NV do put some bite into their withdrawal symptoms, especially when compared to Oblivion and Skyrim's "afterthought" diseases. -5 to something I have 80 points in? Oh no!
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Jun 15, 2012 19:48
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about chemicals and drugs...
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They could be rarer but also I think should be stronger in how they work, making a very serious change to your character buff-wise at the beginning of an addiction, with less and less strong buffs the longer you take them, until you basically only take them not to get debuffs. Then you'd eventually end up at a point where it would be in your own interest to wean them off, so you can use them effectively in the future again. FO1+2 were hardcore that way a lot anyways. I remember walking a little around in the glow in FO1 without any protection, then walking away from the glow and then get interrupted mid-travel just to die of radiation poisoning, and no chance to heal as I didn't have rad-away. (I didn't have a geiger counter so I didn't even know I was irradiated until it was too late, which was actually really gritty and cool) Also playing chess against VAX and not realizing spending hours in a hole full of radiation. There's too little of this kind of ballbusting in modern games IMHO. Couldn't widthdrawal actually kill you in unlucky circumstances? I'm not sure anymore. Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jun 15, 2012 |
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Jun 15, 2012 19:56
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Police Automaton posted:Couldn't widthdrawal actually kill you in unlucky circumstances? I'm not sure anymore. No, withdrawal didn't cause death in the old games. In fact, the only way to cure addiction was to go cold turkey for 1-2 in game weeks. More than one character I played finished the game after 5 or 6 ingame years because my character spent so much time walking around in circles in the desert trying to sober up.
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Jun 15, 2012 20:06
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Bilal posted:No, withdrawal didn't cause death in the old games. In fact, the only way to cure addiction was to go cold turkey for 1-2 in game weeks. The hard thing always is balancing stuff like this. Most mods that increase difficulty make the games as unfun as they are when they are too easy. For example skyrim, where there are enough mods that make you die and reload about five times at every encounter with an enemy, this isn't fun either. The sweet spot for me is when an encounter is challenging so that you have to use some tricks to survive and maybe walk away from the corpses of your enemies with only 1/2 to 1/3 of your life-bar left, but don't have necessarily to reload either, combined with a few encounters when you have gained a few levels where you absolutely own the poo poo out of those scrubs, to give you a sense you are progressing somewhere. That balance is hard to strike, and even though I said those old games were fun, they often didn't strike it either. Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jun 15, 2012 |
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Jun 15, 2012 20:21
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