|
On the other hand, if you play a Shark druid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJVs3qprmSw
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2012 16:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 04:33 |
|
|
Beach posted:I'm not going to spoil anything for you, but there will be pleanty of opportunities for a druid to shine in the AP, even right from the very beginning. In fact, the whole first part of the adventure is so skill check heavy that you will want to talk beforehand with the other players and everyone should choose a role they want to fill on the ship and then plan their skills for that role. So really you can't go too wrong in your class choice. Roles as in party niche (melee, nuker, controller, etc.) or roles as in actual maritime occupations, like lookout, cook, shipwright, navigator, etc.? The former seems practical. The latter seems like an interesting direction to take things for both practical and roleplay purposes. Far as skills go, me, I'm the talky one this time around (diplomacy and the like).  Figure it never hurts to have one. I got the Player's Guide PDF here, and there's material enough to intrigue...can't wait until we can get this started. Good luck getting yours off the ground as well!
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2012 17:00
|
|
|
You'll want guys with climb, craft (ship), caft (sails), profession (sailor), diplomacy, intimidate or perform, handle animal, and someone with a ton of perception. Exotic weapon prof. with siege engines, and knowledge (engineering). Everyone will want swim. And at some point you'll have to decide who has the fattest pc.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2012 17:07
|
|
|
Beach posted:You'll want guys with climb, craft (ship), caft (sails), profession (sailor), diplomacy, intimidate or perform, handle animal, and someone with a ton of perception. Exotic weapon prof. with siege engines, and knowledge (engineering). Everyone will want swim. Survival and bluff can also be very important depending upon how things turn out. Basically you'll want your party to be as well-rounded as possible (skill-wise) even at level one. This is a campaign where the players absolutely should get the chance to talk about what they are planning for their character before the campaign starts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2012 17:32
|
|
|
Beach posted:And at some point you'll have to decide who has the fattest pc. Hahaha, I can just picture the discussion my group would get into if I suddenly posed them with this question out of the blue.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2012 18:31
|
|
|
So I'm jumping into a Jade Regent game at level 4 and I really don't know what to go with. There's a broken as gently caress min/max Summoner and a super multiclass melee guy. Also, all Monster races are a go. I'm looking for a utility/ranged type thing. I was going with a Fighter1/Inquisitor3, but I'm stuck. What is thematically appropriate from people who have played it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2012 20:03
|
|
|
Anonymous Zebra posted:Hahaha, I can just picture the discussion my group would get into if I suddenly posed them with this question out of the blue. You can do it subtlety over the course of the adventure, or be hard-lined on the character descriptions, including height and weight. In Rise of the Runelords, the DM keeps track of all of the characters sins, large and small, and then one of the later books takes place in an ancient dungeon with wings devoted to each sin. You gain benefits and penalties based on what sins your character committed, and the flavor was really interesting. My character gained several interesting bonuses in the Pride wing, and some penalties in Sloth. <y friend gained +1 to hit and damage in the Wrath wing, while the Cleric was forced to make percentile rolls to not feel sickened. Arguably better still was another player playing a TN Druid who did not commit any sins of note throughout the entire campaign and was unaffected either way in all the wings. My DM did a really good job of keeping track of these and it felt very, very natural when it happened.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 01:03
|
|
|
B.B. Rodriguez posted:So I'm jumping into a Jade Regent game at level 4 and I really don't know what to go with. There's a broken as gently caress min/max Summoner and a super multiclass melee guy. Also, all Monster races are a go. I'm looking for a utility/ranged type thing. I was going with a Fighter1/Inquisitor3, but I'm stuck. What is thematically appropriate from people who have played it? Just play a wizard/cleric/druid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 04:37
|
|
|
DJ Dizzy posted:Just play a wizard/cleric/druid. Yeah, that's not what I want to do at all. I think I'm going to go Gnome Alchemist and just go crazy town chucking bombs, making items, getting money and bitches.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 04:41
|
|
|
B.B. Rodriguez posted:Yeah, that's not what I want to do at all. I think I'm going to go Gnome Alchemist and just go crazy town chucking bombs, making items, getting money and bitches. I don't play super-optimized or anything but the Alchemist looks really really fun. I ran one as an NPC in a low level module and he had a bunch of options and was able to lob bombs for a good while.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 05:07
|
|
|
B.B. Rodriguez posted:Yeah, that's not what I want to do at all. I think I'm going to go Gnome Alchemist and just go crazy town chucking bombs, making items, getting money and bitches. This is literally the best idea when playing an Alchemist, followed closely by playing a Vivisectionist Half-Orc with 4 Natural Attacks and full Rogue levels worth of Sneak Attack dice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 05:15
|
|
|
I'll admit.. I'm excited to play in that campaign, but only because my GM said I could play a mermaid. Yes I'm sure thats a bad idea, I don't care. I've always wanted to play a mermaid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 05:32
|
|
|
What would you guys say is the single most overpowered class at level 5? A buddy and I are making level 5 characters to settle an argument. He's making a ranger, I'm thinking a Synthesist summoner. Thoughts?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 03:52
|
|
|
Summoner hands down. He has 2 characters that are better than you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 04:06
|
|
|
If you're just going to throw them at each other arena style, a human cavalier with power attack, mounted combat, ride by attack, and spirited charge will have a pretty good shot of ending a ranger in one round. A ranger with 18 CON at level 5 should have about 57 hp. Go order of the cockatrice for 2 (nae, 6) extra damage, power attack for another 6 (or 18), 18 strength will give you another 6 (18) and a +1 lance will bring your bonus up to 45. You should be able to find 12 more damage somewhere, either from ticking up your strength or your mount's attacks or whathaveyou. Oh right and also you get to roll damage dice. A druid with natural spell is also a very mean thing in an arena style combat, but it works a little better once you can grab elemental form from your Wildshape. You can get to where you're pretty much invincible and keep on throwing out spells, it's nice. Summoners of any stripe are tremendous as I'm sure you've figured out. Any caster with Augmented Summoning might also give just about anyone a lot of trouble. A human cleric can take Spell Focus Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Superior Summoning and be throwing out 1d3+1 hell hounds per round. Have an animal companion as say, an Animal Domain Cleric (go human for boon companion) and your opponent will be quite busy fighting off a small army. Then there's antipaladin. A little Dazzling Display, a couple levels of Thug, a dash of Intimidating Prowess and the highest intimidate mod you can muster, and a healthy dose of touch of corruption, and you can consistently scatter enemy armies. Antipaladins get a slightly different bond than paladins or other druid-type animal companions. They just get one permanent Summon Monster 3, A fiendish dire boar works well enough here if you can use adventure pack "Alternatives". If it is just a "make builds, have them fight each other" and he's making a Ranger, you might also find a Zen Archer or a Bow based Inquisitor very effective. Both can pile on the damage from afar.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 04:43
|
|
|
Eox posted:What would you guys say is the single most overpowered class at level 5? A buddy and I are making level 5 characters to settle an argument. He's making a ranger, I'm thinking a Synthesist summoner. Synthesist will more or less always be weaker then the normal summoner. That isn't to say the Synthesist isn't powerful, just that the normal summoner is obscene.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 04:51
|
|
|
Yeah, the plan is to have them go at it arena style. The thing that sparked this whole to-do is he doesn't believe Caster Supremacy exists, so that's why I was thinking Summoner. Natural Spell druid looks pretty good too though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 05:11
|
|
|
Well, Caster Supremacy doesn't live in one-on-one arena combat. Not that it doesn't exist there mind you, but that is not where it is most problematic. I don't care if your Barbarian can beat up my Shield Paladin. I do care that we're both getting to do cool stuff and contribute to the party in a fun way. That said, if you're going to demonstrate caster supremacy, why not use a full caster? Easiest/first thing that comes to mind is a Heavens Oracle with the revelation Awesome Display, who treats both the Ranger and his Animal Companion as level 1 creatures for the purposes of her Color Spray (assuming a CHA of at least 18). So, one level 1 spell will leave them both unconscious, blind, and stunned for 2d4 rounds. Plenty of time for Coup-De-Grace. Just grab that trait that lets you metamagic at 1 level lower for Color Spray (Magical Lineage) and start throwing around 2nd level Persistent Color Spray. A Ranger at 5th level has a base Will save mod of +2, and lets be generous and assume +4 from wisdom and +1 from a cloak of resistance. heck he can have a +2 vs mind affecting or whatever from somewhere too, why not? So that's a +9 Will save, pretty good! So 10 + 1(spell level) + 2(greater spell focus) +5(Charisma) = 18. He succeeds on a 9, that's a 60% chance to save! but he has to save twice, so that's only a 36% chance. You can throw this spell out there easily 5 times. And since you never need to make an attack roll, just to be coup de gracing, why not wear full plate, proficiency be damned? And wield a scythe, just to make those Coup-de-Graces stick, since you don't have a friendly martial character to go around finishing off the enemies you killed for you. Edit: Of course if his Wisdom is a more realistic 16 and he doesn't pick up a +2 against illusions or mind affecting or spells, that drops him down to a more realistic +6 will save, which is only succeeding on a 12 or better, only a 45% chance to save, which drops all the way down to 20.25%. And God help him if his Will save goes any lower than that, or you bump up your DC any higher. Edit2: Briefly, you can do something like this with just a 15 point buy on a human. STR 14 DEX 9 CON 12 INT 7 WIS 7 CHA 18. After racial adjustments and your 4th level +1 you can have STR 14 DEX 9 CON 12 INT 7 WIS 7 CHA 21 For your feats, Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Persistent Spell, and Craft Wondrous Item. Revelations are Awesome Display and probably Guiding Star. Probably take Deaf as your curse, so all your spells are silent and once a night you get a Still Silent Spell for free. With the standard 10,500 gp, and halving costs for crafting, a +3 headband of Charisma and a +1 belt of Dexterity are very attainable at 5,500 gp total. A lesser Rod of Focused Spell is another 3,000, leaving you 2,000 for a plain old Scythe and some Full Plate. Or if you want you could forego the rod and craft yourself an amulet of natural armor and throw a +1 into the Full Plate to bring your AC up a bit higher, but I don't see why you would. You could also drop craft wondrous (which will dent your Charisma by 1) and grab Toughness if you're really worried about getting hit, but you shouldn't be. So you're looking at an AC of at least 20, without casting any self buffs like Shield of Faith. You've got a respectable enough 36hp. The DC on your Color Spray is 20, or 22 for the target of your choice if you hit two targets (like the ranger and his companion), and the save must be made twice. Which even with a generous +9 Will save for the Ranger is going to hit him about 87.75% of the time. Your to-hit is garbage, sure. But who cares? You'll never make an attack roll, you'll simply coup-de-grace and autocrit. Which will be a nice 8d4+12 and inflict a Fort save at a minimum DC of 30 and an average DC of 42 to avoid death. grah fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Jun 14, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 06:01
|
|
|
grah posted:Holy moly I am now going to make two characters, and I'm using this one first. Holy poo poo. Edit: He made the mistake of sending me the stats he picked (We used point buy) str 11 dex 20 int 10 con 12 wis 12 cha 12 Edit2: And why not mine: Str 9 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 7 Wis 10 Cha 20 Edit3: It was high fantasy, so 20 points Eox fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Jun 14, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 06:17
|
|
|
Well if you're going to go Dex I guess I'd recommend Coat of Many Stars instead of Guiding Star, which frees up 1500 gp for some potions or whatever you might like. Potions of invisibility and see invisible are cheap enough and handy to have for something like this. You can always cast Bull's Strength before your Coup-de-Grace, but I would recommend getting strength up to 10 so that you get that nice +2, which is a +3 for using a Scythe two-handed, which is a +12 on an (automatic) crit.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 06:43
|
|
|
I fixed that, its now 15/9/14/7/7/20. I think I`m going to take Improved Initiative though, because I`d rather not have him get the drop on me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 06:47
|
|
|
I really hate to encourage this sort of thing (d20 is an awful system for pvp, pvp dick-waving contests are bad for games, and it's not even really relevant to the caster supremacy thing), but there are plenty of ways for a spellcaster to gently caress a ranger over, even at level five. With all that dexterity, I imagine he's going archery (otherwise this will be even more laughable). I'd also hazard a guess that he'll pick up the archetype (I think it's Guide) that trades in favored enemy for something that works more like smite. Wind Wall is available on both the cleric/oracle and sorcerer/wizard spell lists if you want to just shut him down for a few rounds to laugh. Another low-effort caster plan is to take a diviner wizard with imp. initiative (so you go first) and wander around invisibly summoning lantern archons. At this level he'll probably have some difficulty with their DR 10/magic and evil; his Will save will also likely subject him to their Aura of Menace. In any case, with the Heavens Oracle, make sure you have a plan to safely get into range that minimizes the chance of a lucky x3 crit. It would probably be helpful here to know as much as possible about the conditions for the fight, like the size and configuration of the arena.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 06:51
|
|
|
The conditions we've set out are A) Combatants start 30 feet away from each other, B) The battle takes place on an endless outdoor plain and C) Any companions start right next to the combatant Edit: Yeah it's morphed from a caster supremacy debate to a 'Who can game the system more' debate Eox fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jun 14, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 07:02
|
|
|
Eox posted:The conditions we've set out are A) Combatants start 30 feet away from each other, B) The battle takes place on an endless outdoor plain and C) Any companions start right next to the combatant Take Hold Person as a known spell so he can't try something stupid like having Fleet, Fleet, Improved Initiative for his feats, then going at +11 initiative with the reactionary trait, and just walking backwards shooting. Although, that sort of gimmicky, dumb build illustrates exactly why this sort of thing is not very informative about the relative power levels of classes in Pathfinder, or really most party-based adventure games.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 07:05
|
|
|
I feel only the need to point out that arena fights prove jack poo poo in any sort of long term. Please do not use this as an actual barometer of "power" or "balance."
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 08:38
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I feel only the need to point out that arena fights prove jack poo poo in any sort of long term. Please do not use this as an actual barometer of "power" or "balance." Yeah, I pointed that out to him. I think I'm going to just set up a few encounters that prove the point better. Also, he's apparently going Archery. Gloves of Arrow Snatching? I think so.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 08:42
|
|
|
Eox posted:Yeah, I pointed that out to him. I think I'm going to just set up a few encounters that prove the point better. He's playing a Ranger. You won this exercise as soon as he failed the character creation mini game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 14:24
|
|
|
grah posted:Well, Caster Supremacy doesn't live in one-on-one arena combat. quote:What would you guys say is the single most overpowered class at level 5? A buddy and I are making level 5 characters to settle an argument. He's making a ranger, I'm thinking a Synthesist summoner. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jun 14, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 14:49
|
|
|
The point is not that casters don't excel at this kind of duel - they do. That's not what "caster supremacy" means, though. Caster supremacy means that a full spellcaster can do anything a non-caster can do, usually better, which leaves the non-caster without a niche in the adventuring party beyond "non-magical deadweight."
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 19:54
|
|
|
Yeah, I didn't mean you can't show caster supremacy in this format, I meant that this format kind of misses the point of caster supremacy, because it's pretty far removed from how the game is actually played most of the time. But indeed, most casters and especially alchemists can fight like a melee or ranged fighter and make everyone who is in a full BAB class look lovely at their jobs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 20:29
|
|
|
OpenlyEvilJello posted:The point is not that casters don't excel at this kind of duel - they do. That's not what "caster supremacy" means, though. Caster supremacy means that a full spellcaster can do anything a non-caster can do, usually better, which leaves the non-caster without a niche in the adventuring party beyond "non-magical deadweight."
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 20:48
|
|
|
That's not what I'd call a high bar.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 21:22
|
|
|
Speaking of gunslingers- how well does the spellslinger archetype work for the wizard? I personally like the flavor of it and am thinking of giving it a shot in the next pathfinder campaign I play and I was just wondering how well it works. I've never used it before. Also, any tips for making a spellslinger?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 22:04
|
|
|
I wonder, how badly do the caster/non-caster 'hybrid' type classes fare in the "caster supremacy" issue? Things like Inquisitor, Bard, Paladin, combat-built Druids who maximize their wild-shape capabilities, and such. Do they end up just as badly outgunned by full casters as the Fighters, or do they maintain a steady even ground without becoming too overpowered or too limited? I've noticed that the early-mid game is where those guys tend to shine the brightest, but not seen enough to know how they fare in the long run.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 07:45
|
|
|
Mazed posted:I wonder, how badly do the caster/non-caster 'hybrid' type classes fare in the "caster supremacy" issue? Things like Inquisitor, Bard, Paladin, combat-built Druids who maximize their wild-shape capabilities, and such. Do they end up just as badly outgunned by full casters as the Fighters, or do they maintain a steady even ground without becoming too overpowered or too limited? They tend to do decently, not as broad as the full casters of course, but they seem to strike a happy balance between semi-rounded capabilities without kicking the rear end of everything and its mother at its own game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 15:03
|
|
|
Ahahah, this is great. Found via additional reading, from Ultimate Magic, comes Ultimate Smug: Inquisitor, take the "Conversion" inquisition (a class-specific substitution for domains). Replace CHA bonus with WIS bonus for Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate. You will  them and they will love you for it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 16:14
|
|
|
Mazed posted:Ahahah, this is great. Found via additional reading, from Ultimate Magic, comes Ultimate Smug: Inquisitor, take the "Conversion" inquisition (a class-specific substitution for domains). That's easily my favourite Inquisition, if only because you can literally convert the big bad guy over to your side.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 16:19
|
|
|
That happened to me as a GM. One of my players had a really high Diplomacy at level 2 and talked the Goblin Warchief down from killing them, to actively helping the party kill the big bad. Being an rear end in a top hat adventurer, he got all of the goblins killed and never had any of the party even lift a finger to succeed. It was crazy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 17:24
|
|
|
Okay, I've thought of a few fixes to help out the Gunslinger class, to help it not suck harder than the Monk (Which is a class I like playing anyway but whatever): 1. Increase the base Range of Firearms by 2. Decrease the cost of bullets and ignore Blackpowder 3. Decrease the reload times of Firearms by one step. 4. Have the Dead Shot deed be something that Gunslingers do naturally without spending Grit, in lieu of doing full attacks, and have it not increase the damage dice. What do you guys think? Would this make Gunslingers overpowered? Or is it not enough to take them out of sucklord status? CAPSLOCKGIRL fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Jun 15, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 22:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 04:33 |
|
|
^^^ I would offer feedback on this but I am utterly unable to muster any sort of enthusiasm for the gunslinger. Sorry!Mazed posted:I wonder, how badly do the caster/non-caster 'hybrid' type classes fare in the "caster supremacy" issue? Things like Inquisitor, Bard, Paladin, combat-built Druids who maximize their wild-shape capabilities, and such. Do they end up just as badly outgunned by full casters as the Fighters, or do they maintain a steady even ground without becoming too overpowered or too limited? Are you familiar with the tier system? Unless I'm forgetting something, out of five tiers, all full casters fit in the top two, all non-casters fit in the bottom two, and partial casters are spread across the three middle tiers. edit: summoner is a partial caster who might be top-tier.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2012 23:26
|
|