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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The prior game's MVP should be part of the current game, and as soon as possible and without any coordination with the rest of the team, pick the worst/funniest/DFAest moves he can think of for every player. If anyone flakes out, the MVP orders are used. Oooh, this I like. 
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Jun 16, 2012 07:11
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anakha posted:Oooh, this I like. Oh yeah. This has my vote. If the unfortunate player survives, but continues to flake, then Zaodai's idea should be put in until that pilot is replaced. This way the unlucky lance doesn't lose a pilot completely for a few turns.
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Jun 16, 2012 07:18
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This is a nice idea but creates an additional point of failure and something else for PTN to have to track - and kinda lets players off the hook because their mech will do SOMETHING even if they don't submit an order. I think PTN's original plan is the best one.
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Jun 16, 2012 07:23
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So, after discussing it with a friend of mine. I've come to a realization. There is a way clanners could have been cool. No, really! Hear me out. Soldier. Yeah, the one with Kurt Russell. It's a story about a freebirth who failed a Trial of some weird kind against a trueborn. If that was the clans in Battletech, they'd be cool. Instead, we just got a whole bag of quiaff.
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Jun 16, 2012 07:45
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Fil5000 posted:This is a nice idea but creates an additional point of failure and something else for PTN to have to track - and kinda lets players off the hook because their mech will do SOMETHING even if they don't submit an order. I think PTN's original plan is the best one. The alternative is basically loving over the rest of their lance who did nothing to deserve to have one of their teammates stand there and do nothing. I was just trying to suggest a middle ground that could be easily fluffed into PTN's story as needed. If it doesn't get accepted, that's just fine. I just don't think "it lets the guy who didn't give orders get off easy" is an accurate detraction from it.
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Jun 16, 2012 07:56
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Zaodai posted:The alternative is basically loving over the rest of their lance who did nothing to deserve to have one of their teammates stand there and do nothing. I hadn't actually considered the rest of the lance, that's a fair point.
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Jun 16, 2012 07:58
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Fil5000 posted:I hadn't actually considered the rest of the lance, that's a fair point. Yeah, well gently caress yo- wait, what? I see your games. This is all part of your Wollie plans to brainwash me. I know about you goons ruining Battletech. 
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Jun 16, 2012 08:08
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Zaodai posted:Yeah, well gently caress yo- wait, what? What plans? There are no plans. We merely wish to spread His word. Seyla.
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Jun 16, 2012 08:21
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Zaodai posted:The alternative is basically loving over the rest of their lance who did nothing to deserve to have one of their teammates stand there and do nothing. This is actually why I kind of like the "gently caress it, alpha strike" idea. Not only does it not greatly penalize the rest of the lance (because, hey, dude might hit something, you know?), it also accurately models the kind of panic response you tend to see from actual soldiers (insert statistics about how many bullets were fired per target in Vietnam here). I think the whole notion of "Oh God oh God they're coming they're unstoppable AAAAAAAAAAA *empties ammo reserves at first available target*" would actually be kind of fun to watch in practice.
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Jun 16, 2012 09:28
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:This is actually why I kind of like the "gently caress it, alpha strike" idea. Not only does it not greatly penalize the rest of the lance (because, hey, dude might hit something, you know?), it also accurately models the kind of panic response you tend to see from actual soldiers (insert statistics about how many bullets were fired per target in Vietnam here). I think the whole notion of "Oh God oh God they're coming they're unstoppable AAAAAAAAAAA *empties ammo reserves at first available target*" would actually be kind of fun to watch in practice. Exactly how I pictured it in my head. That said, I guess you could write doing nothing as being overcome with horror-movie style "Scared White Woman Syndrome" where doing absolutely nothing is the worst of all options and by God that is what they're going to do!
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Jun 16, 2012 09:44
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We absolutely need some kind of rule to keep this thread going. It is a shame too, as this group seemed really fast at first.
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Jun 16, 2012 10:09
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KnoxZone posted:We absolutely need some kind of rule to keep this thread going. It is a shame too, as this group seemed really fast at first. I don't understand why anyone needs more than 24 hours to send a move fire target, it's not hard. The idea that they might have more important things to do is boggling, cause it's something that should take at most 5 minutes to do, poo poo it's even faster in real life. Read the results of last turn, send in your orders for this turn, this should take minutes, not days. PTN 72 hours is a nice window, but I think you should do 24 hours, if they can't handle it, gently caress em, let someone else play then.
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Jun 16, 2012 14:52
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Considering i check this thread erryday, i dont see how people who signed up to play cant do the same, and also say "move space robot to hex b7 and fire missiles" it doesnt seem like that big of a commitment, just that you remember you are in the game and dont gently caress off to nowhere for days on end. I guess i just want in on the next game. Ill be prompt! Much Love to PTN for all the enjoyment reading his battletechs has brought me. Raw_Beef fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jun 16, 2012 |
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Jun 16, 2012 15:06
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24 hours is too short if the players are at all coordinating though. You'll have different time zones, different available hours, a sick day, or other things to worry about. 72 hours is a pretty good time-frame to allow people to at least talk about an idea or strategy that may come up as a result of the dice being so fickle. As for what to do after the 72 hours, I don't really have any idea for that, don't know Battletech well enough.
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Jun 16, 2012 15:59
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I really like the alpha-strike if a player is idle for more than 72 hours suggestion. It doesn't completely screw over the lance, yet it also keeps the game moving at a reasonable pace.
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Jun 16, 2012 20:35
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enigma74 posted:I really like the alpha-strike if a player is idle for more than 72 hours suggestion. It doesn't completely screw over the lance, yet it also keeps the game moving at a reasonable pace.
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Jun 16, 2012 21:21
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Yeah a 72 hour limit seems reasonable. We've had some people with legit 24-48 hour delays over discussions of strategy and rules questions, but delays bigger then that are usually within the players hands. I'd also go with "stand still and shoot everything at closest thing". Doesn't completely dick over the lance, but has a higher chance of the player losing their mech.
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Jun 17, 2012 00:51
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Alpha striking after three days can also really encourage people because, you know, heat. You miss one turn and the next turn you're running on some stiff penalties, too. A bit more pointed reminder to keep on top of it.
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Jun 17, 2012 00:59
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cafel posted:"stand still and shoot everything at closest thing". Friendly fire is obviously enabled. Maximum comedy.
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Jun 17, 2012 01:09
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That's fair. There's absolutely no reason why discussing the turn and picking moves should take a bigger time investment than a few minutes per person. I GM for a campaign group and that's how long it takes them to play out a turn.
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Jun 17, 2012 05:23
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Onean posted:24 hours is too short if the players are at all coordinating though. You'll have different time zones, different available hours, a sick day, or other things to worry about. 72 hours is a pretty good time-frame to allow people to at least talk about an idea or strategy that may come up as a result of the dice being so fickle. As for what to do after the 72 hours, I don't really have any idea for that, don't know Battletech well enough. A sick day? What? Too sick to log on and move your stupid mech?  Dude we've grown accustomed to scenarios taking weeks/months to be completed because of that kind've mind set. We could've been through this entire list of players already if we had a 24 hour window. Everyone would've gotten a chance to play if we had a 24 hour window and didn't make allotments for things like finals or mid terms or whatever. Again, this is not complex stuff, coordination? To what, pick targets? How could that take more than seconds? "I'm gonna shoot the big one" coordination complete. I guess what I'm saying is, I want it to be my turn already and have since the first mission  Players disappearing for days on end is what has stopped that from happening, it's selfish to sign up for something and then not commit to seeing it through.
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Jun 17, 2012 15:00
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SageSepth posted:A sick day? What? Too sick to log on and move your stupid mech? A 24-hour window would have meant me losing my own chance to play in the previous scenario, since I live (most likely) on the other side of the world from PTN and the majority of the other players. One busy morning/afternoon and I'd have been denied my chance to finish the scenario. In addition, coordinating with Felime after we established our alliance would have been impossible without a day or so of leeway, given the time zone difference. Sorry you've gotten impatient waiting for your turn, but imposing that small a window is not the answer. anakha fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jun 17, 2012 |
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Jun 17, 2012 15:29
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SageSepth posted:Again, this is not complex stuff, coordination? To what, pick targets?
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Jun 17, 2012 15:38
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SageSepth posted:A sick day? What? Too sick to log on and move your stupid mech? While I'm as big a fan of faster posts as anyone, I don't think "Hurry up and get to me I don't care about your lives or schedules or anything I want it to be my turn it's about me me me" is really the best rationale, especially if you're then going to turn around and call someone else selfish. I mean, I have no dog in this fight - I'm not on the pilot list - but poo poo, life happens. People get sick, or they lose power in a storm, or a family member needs help, or whatever. Moving pretend-mecha on a pretend-map with pretend-people-from-the-internet should and does take a back seat to a lot of things. I think 72 hours strikes a fine balance between "look, you committed to play, now play" and "THIS IS YOUR JOB NOW MOVE THOSE MECHS, PROLE."
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Jun 17, 2012 15:51
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Arquinsiel posted:How about not trying to occupy the same hex? And doing the stuff everyone was praising us for early on in this game. Though I agree that this particular goonlance took way too long for the mid-late turns. And trust me, we were kicking the slow guys asses too in our googledoc. We were all able to get good orders in within 72 hours; just enough time to get a general consensus on targets, suggest orders and get a critique back.
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Jun 17, 2012 15:52
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That's it exactly. I don't want to punish people for organizing, since the fewer revision requests I have to send the faster I can finish the turn. Organization takes time.
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Jun 17, 2012 18:05
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It's not like PTN is even demanding orders from everyone within 72 hours: he's actually left room for a player to give him notice within that time frame that he has an issue. It's the total silence for over 72 hours that he's trying to crack down on. If you are still coordinating and need another 12 hours you can just tell him. At least that's how I'm reading it. I do agree that "stand still and do nothing" is not a great compromise, since it means both that you're a sitting duck for incoming fire, and that you're not helping your lancemates. Rather than waiting for a specific proxy to figure out what's going on and get back to him, though, I suggest PTN just pop into IRC, randomly pick someone who is online at that very moment, and get him or her to give him orders to use. No delay, the mech will at least do something, and the regulars in IRC are unlikely to totally gently caress over the rest of the lance (but some of us might take perverse pleasure in doing so, so... yeah, try to get your orders in guys.)
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Jun 17, 2012 18:26
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I'll totally just advise you to DFA and Alpha at the same time.
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Jun 17, 2012 18:51
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Why can't PTN just do "what he thinks the player would have done". What's the big deal with that, I trust PTN to not screw a player nor to screw himself by playing an errant mech one way or the other.
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Jun 17, 2012 19:06
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TildeATH posted:Why can't PTN just do "what he thinks the player would have done". What's the big deal with that, I trust PTN to not screw a player nor to screw himself by playing an errant mech one way or the other. Because that would reward the current horrible player discipline. Seriously, 72+ hours of complete silence is just NOT acceptable and should be severely punished; I don't understand why that's not treated as a self-evident truth. 
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Jun 17, 2012 19:15
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Gimmick Account posted:Because that would reward the current horrible player discipline. Seriously, 72+ hours of complete silence is just NOT acceptable and should be severely punished; I don't understand why that's not treated as a self-evident truth. Because "severely punished" seems out of place in a thread that's supposed to be fun? Players should only be penalized to the extent necessary to keep the game going. Throwing out a workable idea because it doesn't punish players enough comes across as petulant to me.
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Jun 17, 2012 19:27
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I feel like that idea makes more work for PTN, so I'm not particularly in favor.
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Jun 17, 2012 19:35
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TildeATH posted:Why can't PTN just do "what he thinks the player would have done". What's the big deal with that, I trust PTN to not screw a player nor to screw himself by playing an errant mech one way or the other. Because that's A) more work for PTN, who's already doing a hell of a lot of work for this thread as-is, and B) unfair to PTN, given the disparity of information involved. The first time he says "Well, I think Absent!Player would move here and attack this guy, but then the enemy Ace is gonna sneak up around and back-shot him," despite the fact that that's a perfectly logical and credible set of responses, someone is going to howl that they only got backshot because PTN moved them and drama drama drama. Hell, even without Aces involved, at some point PTN would be in a situation where he'd have to say "Okay, now I know that Bad poo poo happens if a PC walks through this hex. I think that Absent!Player might do that. Should I make them take an alternate route, since I know about the secret bad poo poo? Is that fair to goonlance if I trip the threat early like this?" And then he's got still more stress to deal with. We already had one Drama Explosion in this thread, there's no sense tempting another. If there's a single, solid rule in place - i.e. "Stand still and Alpha Strike out of sheer panic" - that everyone knows going in, then that cuts down on complaints and stress and drama. There are no accusations of favoritism or grudges, there is no possibility that PTN 'screwed someone' deliberately or innocently, there is nothing to argue, really. You knew in advance what would happen, it happened, suck it up.
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Jun 17, 2012 19:41
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If you really want to be organized about it, appoint one alternate player for each scenario, someone next on the list and available (and in PTN's timezone plus or minus a few). If one of the other players drops out entirely, the alternate steps in and the next person on the list becomes alternate. When PTN posts a turn, he also indicates the orders deadline. Once it passes, he IM's the alternate and gives the alternate a fast deadline (12 hours, perhaps? Depends on when PTN sends the message.) The alternate is included in planning sessions. Being an alternate doesn't count as taking your turn, so it'd provide whoever volunteers with a little extra playtime. Alternately, draw on past MVPs assuming willingness and availability. If an alternate times-out, the mech does nothing that turn, or alpha strikes, or whatever the default action is. (PTN could declare a single default action in each scenario, ranging from freezing up to alpha strike to running away.) The key here, I think, is ensuring that PTN can set a latest time at which he knows orders will come in. That allows him to extend deadlines (or perhaps shorten them) based upon his own schedule. If orders come in too early, PTN can execute the turn at his convenience.
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Jun 17, 2012 23:09
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Well, it's been a couple days since I announced my Goonlance gang tag contest. I wanted to wait until after the weekend, but it looks like we've got a couple entries. Our first once is, of course, near to my heart, as my recently-retired 2nd Donegal character has piloted a Hauptmann for some time. But both of these are collaborations between two people. This is some kind of collusion between the three of you, isn't it? Anyway, here we have our two entries. Whichever is chosen will be our gang tag. Will it be the stolid Hauptmann, red-hot laser cigar informing all readers that we are Goonlance and they have to DEAL WITH IT?  Or will we teach them about the Justice Foot and what happens when you put a mech foot through a cockpit?  I leave the decision up to the thread. I know I said I would pick but it's a gang tag. It should be a consensus.
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Jun 17, 2012 23:12
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Hauptmann tag, hands down. [EDIT] D'aww, someone finally got so pissed at me they gave me a big red title (in Engrish?). Thanks TheSpiritFox! 
Zaodai fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jun 17, 2012 |
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Jun 17, 2012 23:16
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They're both winners in my book, but in the end it's gotta be the Hauptmann tag.
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Jun 17, 2012 23:17
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They are both things of beauty, but the Hauptmann has that certain style.
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Jun 17, 2012 23:18
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Arquinsiel has it right. My choice would be the Hauptmann.
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Jun 17, 2012 23:28
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Justice Foot.
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Jun 17, 2012 23:35
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