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To me, the drawing looks like a cue ball with a tail coming out of it, surrounded by UU/uu's colours. Since Doc Scratch referred to them as seeds, maybe the intended reference is to a spermatozoon? The one thing making me think that uu isn't Lord English right at this moment (although obviously he will be later) is that we don't have an explanation for either his apparent Space powers or Doc Scratch. Maybe this drawing is a hint at what's going to happen there?
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Jun 19, 2012 10:07
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Her Doc Scratch drawing just looks like half of a stylized yin-yang to me.  Ammat The Ankh posted:It appears we get conformation via Calliope's Trollsona that her name is pronounced Call-i-o-pe. Her trollsona Callie also means we can force another mythology reference in, even though presumably Hussie didn't intend this one! Wikipedia posted:Kālī...the Hindu goddess...The name Kali comes from kāla, which means black, time, death, lord of death....Kāli is considered the goddess of time and change...She is also revered as Bhavatārini (literally "redeemer of the universe")
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Jun 19, 2012 10:10
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Desfore posted:Cue ball? It sort of reminded me of Doc Scratch on this page. Probably because of the positioning of the green stuff and the spiral meeting the relative position of the hand to the head in that panel.
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Jun 19, 2012 10:15
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Huh, guess I missed all the Act 6 criticism, and I can't say I'm surprised by how you guys feel about this act. It was always going to be a terrible, terrible idea, from the very instant we knew what the scratch was, I mean do you guys remember that? Nobody thought, well okay I didn't think that they would actually go through with it, I mean it sounded too unbelievable, like there's no possible way it could happen, because it's just such a horrible way to create a story. I mean who does that? Who would completely drop everything to start an entirely new story with entirely new characters right after one of the biggest climax's in your current story and big reveal of the primary antagonist? This is like, if after book 6 of Harry Potter, after Dumbledore's been killed and Voldemort has completely taken over the country and you don't know who to trust and people are going missing or getting killed and Harry is leaving the school to go fight him... and then the next book opens with some random first year kid getting ready for school, boarding the train, sitting under the sorting hat, having to deal with bullies and make friends and all that other fun stuff you remember happening in the first book, only now it's happening to somebody completely different! Don't worry about Harry, though, we'll visit him every other chapter while he's sitting in a tent in the woods talking about doing something but not actually doing anything! That's basically what Act 6 has been. And it promised to be exactly this, too, which is why people are so fed up with it, cause we wanted a surprise, but he spoiled the surprise by telling us exactly how it would work months before pulling the trigger and making it happen. Hussie is literally stretching this story out by remaking Acts 1-3 when he should be busy getting ready to conclude the story by Act 7. The worst part is that he's already done this twice! And done it better, to boot! With the Intermission and Act 5 Act 1, he just dropped everything and created an entirely new story with entirely new characters, only the difference there was that they weren't new characters, they were characters we've already seen in the story itself, now having their own story expanded beyond the minor roles they had before, to the point where afterwards they were just as important to the story as the four kids were. But Act 6 isn't like that. The new kids are entirely new, their story is completely separate from the previous, and overall they feel like they're trying to replace the other kids as the stars of the story. I know that's not the intention here, but that's how it's coming across. There's literally no connection between these kids and everybody else. Well, except for that dream Jake had, but he hosed that up so badly that it doesn't even count, as in he has no idea what's going on and who Rose and Dave are and why he should care or ANYTHING! There's a big old brick wall keeping Act 6 separate from the rest of the story, and until that wall comes down Act 6 isn't going to be terribly fulfilling. And frankly, I think Hussie knew that, which is why we get the intermissions and the mystery of UU/uu. He's desperately trying to keep the real story going while dealing with still giving us our unasked for Homestuck remake, so it's no surprise that these aspects are the one's we're most interested in. Hussie wrote himself into a corner with the scratch, and a Lord English origin story is one way I can see him writing himself out of that corner. Now, to be honest, I like Act 6. And I know from previous experience with Act 5 Act 1, and seeing all the pieces being put into play during the course of Act 6, that when that brick wall comes down, we're going to see this story either get kicked into overdrive... or crash and burn in the most spectacular fashion. And the funny thing is, with the way Act 6 has been dragging, I wouldn't be surprised with either outcome, though I would obviously enjoy one over the other.
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Jun 19, 2012 10:39
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I love Act 6, I think Jane is a little boring but Homestuck (and indeed MSPA) has always had the gimmick of "build up to huge reveal, then cut away to entirely new story". That's simply how the story is told. Personally I enjoy it, I think it's kind of amazingly absurd. But it's not a case of "he's already done this twice before, and it was better those times" - this happens constantly. It's to the degree where you might say it's a core part of the structure.
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Jun 19, 2012 10:53
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I like Act 6 a lot so far but honestly when it started, I stopped reading the comic entirely until the first intermission because I just could not care about these new kids and the boring repeat with nameswaps that went on.
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Jun 19, 2012 10:56
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Unrelated to all this current chat but is anyone else confused by people saying "Why does Calliope find herself ugly? It doesn't make evolutionary sense!" as if there aren't plenty of people out there with poor self-image? I've seen this complaint in a few places now and it just makes no sense. No one complained about Jakes love for the blue ladies making no evolutionary sense... This fandom! I swear, at times... Gosh and/or golly! We now return to our regular conversation about the flaws of Act 6.
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Jun 19, 2012 11:07
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Android Blues posted:I love Act 6, I think Jane is a little boring but Homestuck (and indeed MSPA) has always had the gimmick of "build up to huge reveal, then cut away to entirely new story". That's simply how the story is told. Personally I enjoy it, I think it's kind of amazingly absurd. But it's not a case of "he's already done this twice before, and it was better those times" - this happens constantly. It's to the degree where you might say it's a core part of the structure. Perspective shifts happen constantly, yes, but I don't see how that matters when we're in the middle of a completely different story arc entirely. You wouldn't expect to leap from CD to Rose suddenly in the intermission, like you wouldn't expect to leap from Karkat to John in the middle of A5A1 (A5A2, maybe, but not A5A1). Hussie's using the same tools to tell us a new story, and so far it's not linking back to the previous story, or progressing said previous story, which is what we care about. We've been at a near standstill from all the major plot points since Cascade, and while we've gotten some new developments they're so far completely unrelated and detached from the rest of the story, which is just like A5A1, which had the advantage of moving at a much brisker pace because there were just so many characters that had to be introduced all at once. Act 6 only has the four kids and Calliope/uu, so it's been dragging it's feet a lot more. So yes, it is a case of "he's already done this twice before, and it was better those times".
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Jun 19, 2012 11:17
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When I was a kid I really liked SPACE. That cueball looking symbol kind of reminds me of this diagram in a book showing how one type of supernova might work. It involved a small star in a binary system stealing material from the outer layers of its neighbour, taking more than it can handle and then exploding. The diagram looked kind of like the symbol. Anyone know any plot significant big stars in homestuck?
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Jun 19, 2012 12:17
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On that note, early in Act VI when UU cheered Jane on her big day it seemed she made out the sun itself to be the antagonist.
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Jun 19, 2012 12:21
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SatansBestBuddy posted:So yes, it is a case of "he's already done this twice before, and it was better those times".
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Jun 19, 2012 12:55
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People will always find something to complain about, essentially.
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Jun 19, 2012 13:18
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Seoinin posted:Actually no. I recall people going loving crazy during 5.1. "Who cares about these gray idiots, he's leaving Jade literally hanging in midair for six months." The connection those gray idiots had to the story was even more obtuse than these pink idiots, at least. This is true. At least we know that the B1 kids will be joining up with the B2 kids, and the parts of the old session Jade's bringing with her will stand in for the new session's missing parts to hopefully produce a single viable session (although if that's all that happens and there are no unforeseen shenanigans I will be very surprised). It's not even comparable to the sense of "How is any of this important at this point?" from the start of act 5. Cascade isn't even a cliffhanger, it ends with the kids and trolls en route to the new session, and now we're seeing the setup for their eventual arrival.
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Jun 19, 2012 13:20
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Senethro posted:Anyone know any plot significant big stars in homestuck? in my dream i am the star its me
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Jun 19, 2012 13:38
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I'll admit I was pretty unamused with the whole uU situation up until, like, just now. They came off as pointless and infuriatingly coy. Lemme tell you, they have my undivided attention now. It just took some doing is all. I'm still not sold on Jake, though. Guy's a runaway contender for Least Interesting Anything Ever.
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Jun 19, 2012 13:53
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Seoinin posted:Actually no. I recall people going loving crazy during 5.1. "Who cares about these gray idiots, he's leaving Jade literally hanging in midair for six months." The connection those gray idiots had to the story was even more obtuse than these pink idiots, at least. I dunno, at least with the trolls we knew that they could talk to the kids from different points of time and could see what they were doing in the future, so we already knew they were useful and served as key parts of helping the kids progress. They had a purpose in the story. New kids... what are they gonna do to help? How are they gonna help? Do they even want to help? They don't really have their own place in the story yet. Which is kinda insane to think about because we've been with them for half of Act 6 and still don't know how they'll be able to contribute when the godtiers and trolls arrive. They're gonna enter an unprototyped session and... try to defeat fish hitler I guess?
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Jun 19, 2012 13:55
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SatansBestBuddy posted:New kids... what are they gonna do to help? How are they gonna help? Do they even want to help? They don't really have their own place in the story yet. Which is kinda insane to think about because we've been with them for half of Act 6 and still don't know how they'll be able to contribute when the godtiers and trolls arrive. They're gonna enter an unprototyped session and... try to defeat fish hitler I guess? To be fair, we haven't seen any of their game-based powers yet. Roxy's voiding of the session is the only thing hinted at, and that's going to be super-useful because that lack of ability of observe mean that nothing in the future will be predestined the way most of the B1 session was. They can actually do things. If this follows the pattern of the other acts, the B2 kids will gently caress Everything Up, probably by playing some part in the original creation of Lord English, and then they'll join up with the B1 kids and remaining trolls to...do stuff. Maybe not defeat LE forever, but probably actually finally finish a session correctly and unlock the Ultimate Riddle and all that. And then: year-long boss battle.
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Jun 19, 2012 14:09
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Jake is cool, I like his whole adventurin' schtick. I was sold on him for good after his fight with Robo-Dirk at the very least. Dirk too has been full of interesting drama, maybe he's not as funny as I imagined him to be (but when he is funny, like the last uu conversation, he is on fire), but he's still a very interesting character. And Roxy is Roxy. Jane is the only one who feels kind of boring. But that's cool, Rose was super boring too. Can't all be winners. And even Jane got those amazing faces during the Jake Relationship Thing.
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Jun 19, 2012 14:16
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Seoinin posted:I'll admit I was pretty unamused with the whole uU situation up until, like, just now. They came off as pointless and infuriatingly coy. Lemme tell you, they have my undivided attention now. It just took some doing is all. But even the bad characters have had a lot of funny moments, and the good new characters have had A LOT of great moments. And now that UU and uu finally make sense , I'm really excited to read about them as well. I really wish uu being Lord English isn't a fakeout since it would mean we are getting somewhere with the main villain, getting his backstory and possible motivations. Act 5 had some similar issues for me, there were a few long pesterlogs that weren't really that interesting, brought nothing new to the table, and usually skip on a reread. Act 5 did end up developing all the characters it introduced into interesting directions, so I'd guess Act 6 will do the same.
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Jun 19, 2012 14:37
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I agree that Act 6 has been a bit slow, and too infodumpy at times, and that the non-Roxy new kids aren't as interesting as they could be (although they've all been growing on me). The UU reveal has really helped things though. Before that, it was a case of "ugh, do we really need more characters with a vague and tangential connection to the story? What is even the point of these guys? I guess they'll be relevant eventually somehow, but..." Little did we know just how relevant they would be.
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Jun 19, 2012 14:51
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I'm definitely skipping a lot more dialog in act 6. As someone was saying, the earlier dialog was more quotable. There's still things being revealed and people doing funny things, but not as many people saying funny things. It's just people saying twice as many words as they have to to say what their saying. I'm not sure if it's worse than things from earlier on, but at least it gets more annoying as time goes on.
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Jun 19, 2012 15:11
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Nate RFB posted:Jake is cool, I like his whole adventurin' schtick. I was sold on him for good after his fight with Robo-Dirk at the very least. Dirk too has been full of interesting drama, maybe he's not as funny as I imagined him to be (but when he is funny, like the last uu conversation, he is on fire), but he's still a very interesting character. And Roxy is Roxy. I had the opposite problem, I'm incredibly tired of Jake. He's the most bland character I've seen since probably Sollux, but at least Sollux had the excuse of doing literally everything offscreen so the times we do see him he's either getting screwed with, getting screwed over, or just kinda chilling out. He was like the troll equivalent of DD. Jake's just awful. It doesn't help that almost everything so far that's happened with the characters has revolved around Jake in same way. The relationship drama? Because everyone's trying to get into Jake's pants. The entry order? Dirk trying to get into Jake's pants. Finding out Dirk's gay? Because of Jake. Jane wandering around through her planet trying to find her dad? WELL LOOK AT THAT THERE'S JAKE HOW CONVENIENT Jake by himself is boring. I think it's mostly because we haven't really been with him much, but I don't think that's really much of an excuse when the other three kids are incredible. Solo Jane at the beginning was a bit boring, but the little inner conflict (about Jake, of course) she has going on is something to go off at least. I don't even need to explain why Roxy's an amazing character, and Dirk's got the snarkiness of Dave and the masterminding of Vriska all in one package. What has Jake done so far? Got his rear end handed to him by a robot (I really don't like that whole flash, but it has more to do with the song than anything else), talked with people, got a concussion, and attacked Sea Hitler. Okay, the last one was pretty cool but otherwise I'm really getting tired of Jake and everything revolving around him is what I'm trying to get at here.
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Jun 19, 2012 15:14
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Jazu posted:I'm definitely skipping a lot more dialog in act 6. Well, don't be confused later. Also re: Jake, someone proposed to me that Jake is basically the main character in a dating game- every other character seems to be interested in him, perhaps unusually so. Jake kind of won me over as a character in the dream bubble, I have to wonder how insightful and observant he really is if he's capable of creating a mental Dirk who has all the answers which he's not willing to recognize himself as having.
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Jun 19, 2012 15:21
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Looks like a blackhole eating a star
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Jun 19, 2012 15:27
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The revelation that he's likely been stealth characterizing Lord English for this whole act immediately makes up for its failings in my opinion. The act has been dragging a bit and my interest has been less fervent than in the past, but the Calliope reveal and all its implications have essentially rekindled the flame for me.
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Jun 19, 2012 15:37
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I've never really lost interest in Homestuck throughout the various acts - although I was archival up until the Equius death page - and I think that's because I don't focus on whether or not the immediate panels/characters/plot/what-have-you is relevant or whether Hussie is 'doing a good job' with pacing/dialog/overloading the story with redundant characters. I think how I operate i relations to Hamsteak can be summed up in some weird concept referred to as 'trust'. The fact that Hussie has continually surprised me with genuinely unexpected twists, interesting plot points, and references going as far back as the beginning of the comic - even at this late point, near the 'end' of the story - doesn't really allow for me to question his competency as an author. I can accept that things seems clunky and pointless for a reason, and probably set up for things that happen later on, or off, screen. And I'm 0k with that; criticism be damned. I think the only time I was ever anything but interested in a new update was with the horse/vriska proposal update. And that was primarily because, to me, it felt entirely out of nowhere. And also, Vriska was not NEARLY fat enough for Hussie.
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Jun 19, 2012 15:57
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TOAST7312 posted:And also, Vriska was not NEARLY fat enough for Hussie. She was supposed to eat all the horses before running into Andrew.
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Jun 19, 2012 16:08
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pandaK posted:Looks like a blackhole eating a star You fools! It's obviously a Jigglypuff seen from above.
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Jun 19, 2012 16:20
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Tunicate posted:You fools! Dear gog! So what happens when both Calliope and her brother go to sleep?
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Jun 19, 2012 16:28
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The weird symbol could be something like a timeline of Calliope and her brother, and who has consciousness when. Starting in the center of the spiral, which moves between red and green frequently, but then later on stays in the red for quite a while (presumably as Lord English maybe?) but ends up in the green (Calliope eventually winning out?)
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Jun 19, 2012 16:32
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Seoinin posted:Actually no. I recall people going loving crazy during 5.1. "Who cares about these gray idiots, he's leaving Jade literally hanging in midair for six months." The connection those gray idiots had to the story was even more obtuse than these pink idiots, at least. The best thing about 5.1 and what saved it, beyond most of the trolls being well-developed, interesting characters, was it turns out the trolls were heavily invested and/or influenced the main story in a variety of ways, so much so their story was the main story, and we just only saw the kids' side of it up until then. Hussie had already left enough allusions and references in the previous acts to make the trolls' story make perfect sense plotwise, because we had already seen most of these guys talk to the main four and give hints/advice/help/harm/etc. So when act V happened we found out that, oh, this chatlog with randomtroll was actually Tavros and here was why he was such a spineless moron or why gallowsCalibrator wrote all weird or why the grey text guy was so angry and confrontational. Compare to act 6, which spent over half of its chatlogs talking about how everyone wants to gently caress Jake. Seriously all the Jakechat could've been excised entirely (and the entire chapter would've been much better for it) with no loss in clarity or amusement. Try to say that about any other subplot in any other act. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 16:48
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Well, whatever else, Act 6 has been much better-paced than Act 5. More importantly, it's been better-structured. The frequent intermissions keep us from forgetting about what's going on in the suspended plotline, while the new kids have fewer points of view to bounce between, and the character selector gimmick makes it more obvious that they're advancing in parallel. Even the exposition is being spaced out more evenly; we gripe about Aranea now, but she's doing what she does so we won't need someone to literally usurp narration duties in order to make sure we know everything we need to know. Things might still go crazy when we get to the inevitable clusterfuck of eight kids, five living trolls, at least four dead trolls, three sprites, two cherubs, and a Jack Noir running around; for now, though, we're looking at a story comparable in scope to Act 3, but written with more experience with what works well in this format. Watching these new characters come into their own has been great, and the established structure of the comic means we know they will come into their own, so I'm willing to be patient. pumpinglemma posted:The one thing making me think that uu isn't Lord English right at this moment (although obviously he will be later) is that we don't have an explanation for either his apparent Space powers or Doc Scratch. Maybe this drawing is a hint at what's going to happen there? Recall uu's game plan, which offers a possibility.
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Jun 19, 2012 16:53
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Senethro posted:
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004941 Yeah there's kindof a big star in homestuck, that is plot significant. E: just spelling it out for the slow. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 16:58
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Occupation posted:Seriously all the Jakechat could've been excised entirely (and the entire chapter would've been much better for it) with no loss in clarity or amusement. Try to say that about any other subplot in any other act. Boy are you gonna be red in the face when everyone wanting to bone Jake turns out to be the most crucial plot point of all
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Jun 19, 2012 17:00
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Occupation posted:The best thing about 5.1 and what saved it, beyond most of the trolls being well-developed, interesting characters, was it turns out the trolls were heavily invested and/or influenced the main story in a variety of ways, so much so their story was the main story, and we just only saw the kids' side of it up until then. Then act V happened and we found out that, oh, this chatlog with randomtroll was actually Tavros and here was why he was such a spineless moron or why gallowsCalibrator wrote all weird or why the grey text guy was so angry and confrontational. There's also the part where 5.1 did more in its first 6 weeks than Act 6 has done in over 6 months. The first few weeks of 5.1 were a brick wall that was quickly demolished by the ensuing whirlwind of troll craziness. Act 6 has been a ride up a long uphill slope on a lovely tricycle desperately being pedaled by Roxy chatlogs. In response to criticism that Act 1 (and to a much lesser extent Act 2) is boring and inane, Hussie has said it was written that way intentionally to create distinction between the mundane lives of the kids on Earth and the fast-paced craziness that comes later. I don't remember for sure whether or not he's said that Act 6.1 and 6.2 were supposed to deliberately mirror the grueling pace of the early parts, but I'm still not sold on the notion that making parts of your story worse on purpose so that they contrast with the good bits is the best idea in the world. Bongo Bill posted:, and a Jack Noir running around Please. That's short like at least two Jack Noirs.
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Jun 19, 2012 17:03
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Bongo Bill posted:Even the exposition is being spaced out more evenly If by "spaced out more evenly" you mean there's three to four times as much of it with roughly the same amount of information being given, yeah sure. This is the main problem with 6. It's so in love with its gimmick and having to flesh out John 2.0 or Female John 2.0 or Creepy Annoying Dave or Random Exposition Girl or Other Random Exposition Girl that everything is much, much longer than it should be. They arrive at the same places that the previous acts had, but take so much longer to do it and talk about so much unnecessary bullshit along the way it feels like a trial to read instead of being something actually enjoyable. Gabriel Pope posted:In response to criticism that Act 1 (and to a much lesser extent Act 2) is boring and inane, Hussie has said it was written that way intentionally to create distinction between the mundane lives of the kids on Earth and the fast-paced craziness that comes later. I don't remember for sure whether or not he's said that Act 6.1 and 6.2 were supposed to deliberately mirror the grueling pace of the early parts, but I'm still not sold on the notion that making parts of your story worse on purpose so that they contrast with the good bits is the best idea in the world. But...acts 1 and 2 were great. Mostly because Hussie was devoted to cheesy slapstick and being funny over people whining in chatlogs, and learning about how sburb functioned or how the kids dealt with the simple adversity of inventory shenanigans was new and exciting. Which made me roll my eyes when he actually devoted time to inventory poo poo in act 6. Although it did give us the rap battle, so I guess it's all okay in the end. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 17:08
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Huh, guess I missed all the Act 6 criticism, and I can't say I'm surprised by how you guys feel about this act. All true, except for the part about the reset kids being new characters. They're kid versions of ancestors we'd already seen or heard about. Popo posted:Unrelated to all this current chat but is anyone else confused by people saying "Why does Calliope find herself ugly? It doesn't make evolutionary sense!" as if there aren't plenty of people out there with poor self-image? Also, who says that cherubs evolved at all? They could have just been created by Gamzee's dark jujus.
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Jun 19, 2012 17:14
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Senethro posted:When I was a kid I really liked SPACE. That cueball looking symbol kind of reminds me of this diagram in a book showing how one type of supernova might work. It involved a small star in a binary system stealing material from the outer layers of its neighbour, taking more than it can handle and then exploding. The diagram looked kind of like the symbol. Back at the beginning of Act 6 there was some discussion of the sun over scratched earth looking strange. It appears to be kind of big and white, different from how the sun was depicted in Act 1. I'm not sure it's significant but it kind of resembles the drawing on Calliope's wall, minus the spiral.
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Jun 19, 2012 17:17
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Occupation posted:But...acts 1 and 2 were great. Mostly because Hussie was devoted to cheesy slapstick and being funny over people whining in chatlogs, and learning about how sburb functioned or how the kids dealt with the simple adversity of inventory shenanigans was new and exciting. The beginning seems to be one of the more contentious parts of Homestuck. Personally I think it works in the context of being a followup to Problem Sleuth, since then you know what to expect with the slapstick and inventory shenanigans and it becomes all the more delightful when the story proceeds to subvert your expectations. If you take Homestuck as a standalone work though I think Act 1 looks a lot less appealing. Part of that is a matter of taste, though, since I know there are a reasonable number of people who thought Act 1 & 2 were the best part.
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Jun 19, 2012 17:19
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Occupation posted:If by "spaced out more evenly" you mean there's three to four times as much of it with roughly the same amount of information being given, yeah sure. I think on a reread Act 1 and 2 feel a bit weird even though I enjoyed Problem Sleuth, mostly because Hussie doesn't have the character's voices pinned down yet. Dave especially sounds off in the early logs. It's pretty hard for me to pick a favorite or least favorite act, though, not counting Act 6 since it's not done yet. *All of the sudden
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Jun 19, 2012 17:21
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