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RentACop posted:Looking back on it, this comic has a lot of arcs that are boring as hell to read when they aren't in book form and you can just power through it. It's more noticable after the paladin-boogaloo. I'd be surprised if Tarquin didn't get a big reversal some time soon. Maybe via V and the three fiends, since they're probably due to make an appearance (<= official prediction marker for bragging rights in vanishingly unlikely case this happens).
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Jun 18, 2012 03:13
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The Sue-ish thing about Xykon that I don't get from Tarquin is his personal power. Tarquin's Sue-ish because he knows standard conventions and, along with the rest of his party, controls most of the world through manipulation of less-intelligent leaders. He is definitely not a powerhouse in combat in my mind; I can't see him holding off super-V like Xykon did.
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Jun 18, 2012 04:37
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sebmojo posted:Maybe via V and the three fiends, since they're probably due to make an appearance (<= official prediction marker for bragging rights in vanishingly unlikely case this happens). Though Tarquin could probably have used a break between his appearances, I've got to admit I wouldn't be disappointed if we never saw the three fiends again (even though that's obviously not going to happen). "Some demons/ultimate evils you've barely seen are actually the super-secret power behind every bad ever and only really show up to any strong degree at the very end, likely eclipsing the main villains you've actually spent time with over the course of the story" is one of the more boring/obnoxious twists I can think of throwing into either a D&D campaign or just fiction in general. Unless, I suppose, they show up at the very end and give a big long speech about how they're the true evil powers in everything that's happened, only to have Xykon have them eaten by an advanced vampire tyrannosaurus or something mid-monologue. That'd be kinda funny. 
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Jun 18, 2012 06:05
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greatn posted:He got like over a million dollars, you'd think he could hire some temp workers. He did, kind of. There's just a lot of work to be done, and he needs to be in the loop for almost all of it. Speaking of, I final got my book (Snips, Snails and Dragon Tails) the other day, and although I was expecting it to be differently bound, it's a very beautiful and nice feeling book.
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Jun 18, 2012 06:14
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sebmojo posted:I'd be surprised if Tarquin didn't get a big reversal some time soon. Maybe via V and the three fiends, since they're probably due to make an appearance (<= official prediction marker for bragging rights in vanishingly unlikely case this happens). http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html I bet the imp is popping back in from the Lower Planes, where it was making sure everything is ready to take control of V. It makes perfect narrative sense, as well - this is the second-to-last gate, so it has to be the second-to-last climax for our protagonists. All the secondary antagonists have to be dealt with, so that the final battle is a pure showdown between the Order, Xykon, and Redcloak. All the personal issues have to come to a head now, so that the protagonists can work through them before that final battle. V needs to be possessed now, so we can have strips exploring how everyone else reacts to that. If V were possessed at the final gate, then there would be no time for that denouement.
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Jun 18, 2012 06:27
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sebmojo posted:I'd be surprised if Tarquin didn't get a big reversal some time soon. Maybe via V and the three fiends, since they're probably due to make an appearance (<= official prediction marker for bragging rights in vanishingly unlikely case this happens). Yeah, if I had to guess Tarquin getting waxed by Xykon is pretty likely. Discovering he's not the main villain at the last second seems like a tropey enough blindspot
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Jun 18, 2012 08:14
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Niton posted:He did, kind of. There's just a lot of work to be done, and he needs to be in the loop for almost all of it. I got my copy of Start of Darkness in the mail today and promptly read all of it. I'll give the coloring book to my niece and hopefully she'll learn some valuables lessons thanks to it.
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Jun 18, 2012 21:55
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A Big Dark Yak posted:Though Tarquin could probably have used a break between his appearances, I've got to admit I wouldn't be disappointed if we never saw the three fiends again (even though that's obviously not going to happen). That's not what the three fiends are through. They're bit-players making a power play for in lower realms, not power players in their own right.
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Jun 18, 2012 22:11
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RentACop posted:Yeah, if I had to guess Tarquin getting waxed by Xykon is pretty likely. Discovering he's not the main villain at the last second seems like a tropey enough blindspot Gotta disagree here. Chekov's Evil Adventuring Party says that Tarquin and Malack aren't going down for real until they're there with their whole crew, including Miron, the catgirl thief, and the mage with all the ioun stones. Getting beat by the Order or Team Evil? Sure. Getting killed permanently this early? Not a chance.
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Jun 19, 2012 01:23
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jng2058 posted:Gotta disagree here. Chekov's Evil Adventuring Party says that Tarquin and Malack aren't going down for real until they're there with their whole crew, including Miron, the catgirl thief, and the mage with all the ioun stones. Getting beat by the Order or Team Evil? Sure. Getting killed permanently this early? Good point, I forgot those guys even existed. Too bad Burlew is on his deathbed and we'll never get another comic again
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Jun 19, 2012 02:29
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Will those two lizard adventurers be back too, I guess? I was personally hoping that we'd see the big one get to talk about the rabbits in the arena but Belkar pretending to be a mice person screwed that up and they are both sadly alive.
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Jun 19, 2012 02:57
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Ponsonby Britt posted:http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html Smart points. V's had the true horror of his deeds brought home to him, so now's the time to bring out the rest. It's also a good avenue for lampshading the 'take out/cripple the high-level wizard at the big confrontations because otherwise they're too hard to write' syndrome - make him (briefly) into an antagonist. And the story of the Linear Guild, and therefore the three fiends, is almost certainly going to finish at this gate. My other !!PREDICTION!! is that Draketooth has swallowed the gate, then had himself turned to stone. Making the results of the Speak with Dead spell accurate.
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Jun 19, 2012 03:08
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jng2058 posted:Gotta disagree here. Chekov's Evil Adventuring Party says that Tarquin and Malack aren't going down for real until they're there with their whole crew, including Miron, the catgirl thief, and the mage with all the ioun stones. Getting beat by the Order or Team Evil? Sure. Getting killed permanently this early? I don't think we'll ever see the rest of their party - it's just a nod to the 'adventurers hang out in parties' trope.
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Jun 19, 2012 03:12
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sebmojo posted:My other !!PREDICTION!! is that Draketooth has swallowed the gate, then had himself turned to stone. Making the results of the Speak with Dead spell accurate. Except they found his body already, and it was very much not stone.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:30
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Ha! Well, that's just, that's just, well! Ha! OHMYGODLOOKATTHATTHINGOVERTHERE (scampering feet, distant slam, car starts up outside, peels off)
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Jun 19, 2012 05:13
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sebmojo posted:I don't think we'll ever see the rest of their party - it's just a nod to the 'adventurers hang out in parties' trope. My money's on it going the other way. I expect Tarquin, Malack, Miron, and all the rest to be big players in the last book, presuming that we're nearing the end of book five and that book six is the dramatic finale....though I do see a way that it might go to seven, depending on how Rich wants to play it. The reason I think that is because Tarquin has replaced Nale as Elan's personal foil. Indeed, I'll wager that Tarquin's crew becomes the new "Linear Guild" and that we'll get to see the Order have to take on a team of evil opposites who are not only higher level, but also dangerous because, unlike the Linear Guild or Xykon and Redcloak, Tarquin's team like and respect each other. Thus the one thing that the Order can usually rely on against the Guild, namely teamwork, will be superseded by Tarquin's crew's superior teamwork...it should be quite interesting. And I expect the position of "Elan's nemesis" to be available because I also agree with some earlier posters that Nale has run his course and won't be making it out of Girard's hideout alive.
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Jun 19, 2012 07:36
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If Nale dies, I think Sabine might well end up swinging for the fences with whatever is left. It's been established that despite being Chaotic(?) Evil and a 'physical incarnation of illicit sex', she truly does care about Nale, and would stand against every demon in hell for him. If he dies in any sort of permanent way (or even an impermanent one), she's going to end up going Harley Quinn, I think.
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Jun 19, 2012 07:41
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jng2058 posted:My money's on it going the other way. I expect Tarquin, Malack, Miron, and all the rest to be big players in the last book, presuming that we're nearing the end of book five and that book six is the dramatic finale....though I do see a way that it might go to seven, depending on how Rich wants to play it. The reason I think that is because Tarquin has replaced Nale as Elan's personal foil. Indeed, I'll wager that Tarquin's crew becomes the new "Linear Guild" and that we'll get to see the Order have to take on a team of evil opposites who are not only higher level, but also dangerous because, unlike the Linear Guild or Xykon and Redcloak, Tarquin's team like and respect each other. Thus the one thing that the Order can usually rely on against the Guild, namely teamwork, will be superseded by Tarquin's crew's superior teamwork...it should be quite interesting. Put like that, it makes a lot of sense. If Tarquin et al die here it's a lot of buildup for not too much payoff. And as you say, it's a clever new take on 'evil opposites'.
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Jun 19, 2012 11:28
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jng2058 posted:And I expect the position of "Elan's nemesis" to be available because I also agree with some earlier posters that Nale has run his course and won't be making it out of Girard's hideout alive. The problem with this is that, at that point, Nale becomes a lot of wasted time. Just a lot. We've spent more time on him than some members of the Order. Like or hate, he's a defined character. To have him replaced by Captain Perfect would feel pretty lovely.
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Jun 19, 2012 12:23
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ImpAtom posted:The problem with this is that, at that point, Nale becomes a lot of wasted time. Just a lot. We've spent more time on him than some members of the Order. Like or hate, he's a defined character. To have him replaced by Captain Perfect would feel pretty lovely. Only if you don't already despise him and look forward to his death with an irrational sense of glee. (For my money, Nale backstabs Tarquin and assists Elan, not because he wants Elan to live but because he wants his father to know, in his dying moments, that he should have been the favored and honored son, it should have been his name spelled out in burning commoners, it should have been all. About. Him.) (And then Malack fries him because seriously, gently caress that guy.)
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Jun 19, 2012 13:20
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Only if you don't already despise him and look forward to his death with an irrational sense of glee. I think he's boring as hell, but Rich is generally pretty good about giving payoff for stuff, so it'd be really disappointing if the payoff is "you had to sit through a whole lot of screentime with this rear end in a top hat only for him to die and be replaced by new, better, villain." Miko was pretty annoying as well but her payoff made it worthwhile and I'm holding out hope the same goes for Nale.
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Jun 19, 2012 13:24
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Malack alone has more characterisation than Nale ever got through the entire series. Nale's been around forever yet his entire personality can still be summed up as (1) arrogant (2) kinda clever (3) evil. That was totally fine when the strip was more lighthearted and he was a useful plot & joke device, but for whatever reason he never got fleshed out the way almost every major character has since been. I'm gonna speculate that Rich has just been drawing a blank about coming up with some interesting motivations and traits for him, which is why he's been keeping Nale behind the scenes as much as possible.
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Jun 19, 2012 17:01
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ImpAtom posted:The problem with this is that, at that point, Nale becomes a lot of wasted time. Just a lot. We've spent more time on him than some members of the Order. Like or hate, he's a defined character. To have him replaced by Captain Perfect would feel pretty lovely. Only if he just dies. I don't expect Rich to whack Nale in some minor fashion. I'm expecting to see a multiple betrayal conflagration with the IFCC demons, Team Evil, the Linear Guild, and the Order of the Stick dueling it out for Girard's Gate. If I had to guess, Nale goes out with Sabine in his arms destroying the Gate, because "if I can't have it, gently caress you all, NO ONE CAN!" Or something along those lines. I didn't say Nale was going out like a bitch, just that he's going out.
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Jun 19, 2012 17:08
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Now Tarquin, that's the guy who has to go out like a bitch.
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Jun 19, 2012 17:10
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Calaveron posted:Now Tarquin, that's the guy who has to go out like a bitch. And I think he's forgetting one minor detail of his "I'll get to be a legend" plan: Elan's a bard. Who writes the songs that make legends in a D&D universe?
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Jun 19, 2012 18:22
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Fighting Trousers posted:And I think he's forgetting one minor detail of his "I'll get to be a legend" plan: Elan's a bard. Who writes the songs that make legends in a D&D universe? drat. Good point.
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Jun 19, 2012 18:44
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Fighting Trousers posted:And I think he's forgetting one minor detail of his "I'll get to be a legend" plan: Elan's a bard. Who writes the songs that make legends in a D&D universe? Agreed. Tarquin's going out like a bitch...mostly because Elan knows that's the perfect way to kill the legend. Hence the plan.
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Jun 19, 2012 19:15
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While it's speculation time, I could see Nale getting taken out and Tarquin's crew taking that spot. Replacing evil doppelgangers with evil... supergangers
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Jun 19, 2012 19:33
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NihilCredo posted:Malack alone has more characterisation than Nale ever got through the entire series. Nale's been around forever yet his entire personality can still be summed up as (1) arrogant (2) kinda clever (3) evil. Here's the thing: sometimes, people are just that shallow. Sometimes, they're just what they seem to be on the label-- not everyone has to be some intricately woven tapestry. Sometimes the clever rear end in a top hat is just a clever rear end in a top hat, regardless of how plot important he is.
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Jun 19, 2012 19:47
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It wouldn't be proper for Nale to die before the end run. Nale is just as much a main villain as Xykon is, so seeing him perish long before Xykon (let alone much later introduced characters like Tarquin) would not be right. Besides, what would that leave Thog with???
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Jun 19, 2012 19:55
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Nenonen posted:Besides, what would that leave Thog with???
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Jun 19, 2012 19:57
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jng2058 posted:Agreed. Tarquin's going out like a bitch...mostly because Elan knows that's the perfect way to kill the legend. Hence the plan. Yeah, I could see Tarquin dying in a hole in the middle of nowhere with a mask on his head as an adequate way to take a guy like him out. For my money, you may see him die in this encounter, but I don't think Nale and Sabine are going out until the inevitable raid on Xykon's astral-plane headquarters.
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Jun 19, 2012 21:16
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It's a gamble, but I'd still bet heavily on Tarquin not surviving this act. He has "Act Villain" written on his head in big bold letters, like Kubota or Miko or any of the other myriad villains they've beat down over the story. He might have a good hook and people might like his shtick, but that just makes him a very good act villain. This just hasn't been the sort of story to throw big twists like that - some big twists and turns here and there, sure, but Rich hasn't proven to be the sort of authour to turn the whole story on its ear in a moment just to keep us guessing.
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Jun 20, 2012 02:34
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Dolash posted:It's a gamble, but I'd still bet heavily on Tarquin not surviving this act. He has "Act Villain" written on his head in big bold letters, like Kubota or Miko or any of the other myriad villains they've beat down over the story. He might have a good hook and people might like his shtick, but that just makes him a very good act villain. This just hasn't been the sort of story to throw big twists like that - some big twists and turns here and there, sure, but Rich hasn't proven to be the sort of authour to turn the whole story on its ear in a moment just to keep us guessing. Alright here's the play. Everyone gets 1000 GoonBux. Propose your bets on story or character resolutions and lay down your bux. This is a good time for it because we'll hopefully get a resolution to the current book by year's end if not sooner. I'm going to lay 250 GB that Nale dies for realsies by the end of the book, and another 250 GB that Tarquin survives...or at least is killed in a fashion that we can reasonably expect his allies to raise him from the dead. In other words, Tarquin is in a position to intervene in the next book rather than taken out as a one and done baddie. I'm saving my other 500 GB for later bets. Any takers on my offers?
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Jun 20, 2012 04:41
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I've got 250 on Tarquin turning into an anti-hero once he finds out Xykon's plan is to destroy the world.
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Jun 20, 2012 05:28
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After hearing Dolash's arguments, I think I'll take both of your bets, jng. And I'll also put down another 250 that by the end of the story, Nale's death will have caused some kind of fundamental break in Sabine's psyche.
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Jun 20, 2012 05:34
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Colon V posted:After hearing Dolash's arguments, I think I'll take both of your bets, jng. jng2058 vs Colon V - Nale permanantly dead by book's end (jng) or alive (Colon) = 250 GB Done jng2058 vs Colon V - Tarquin alive or raisable at book's end (jng) or Dead/dispensed with as ongoing villain (Colon) = 250 GB Done Nale's death causes Sabine break down - No Bet. Sorry man, I agree with you on that one. Any takers in the audience for that one or Soonmot's Tarquin anti-hero bet?
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Jun 20, 2012 05:40
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I just got an email saying that my Kickstarter package shipped!  ...And the tracking number provided tells me that it was already delivered March 21, 2011! I'm going to be honest, I'm not entirely sure who I'm supposed to be e-mailing over this.
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Jun 20, 2012 06:22
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YggiDee posted:I just got an email saying that my Kickstarter package shipped!
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Jun 20, 2012 06:38
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Cabbit posted:Here's the thing: sometimes, people are just that shallow. Sometimes, they're just what they seem to be on the label-- not everyone has to be some intricately woven tapestry. Sometimes the clever rear end in a top hat is just a clever rear end in a top hat, regardless of how plot important he is.
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Jun 20, 2012 07:35
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