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Tab8715 posted:Doesn't the device have an incredibly different type or vastly improved stylus? I thought that was one the major but unfortunately overlooked selling points. The quality remains to be seen, but they did say there were two separate touch digitizers, one for fingers and a separate one for a stylus. We don't yet know if that will translate into a good writing experience or if it will suck like on iPads.
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Jun 20, 2012 14:35
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Tab8715 posted:Doesn't the device have an incredibly different type or vastly improved stylus? I thought that was one the major but unfortunately overlooked selling points. The pen isn't an artificial finger that uses the conventional capacitive screen, so it's already different from most tablets on the market today. It's more like Lenovo's convertible tablets in that it has a touch digitizer for multitouch, and a separate pen digitizer for pen input, which would probably also allow for pressure sensitivity and eraser support. The touch digitizer also apparently turns off when the pen is brought in close proximity to the screen so you don't have that issue either. For me, I'm waiting to see if Microsoft used their touch response research in the Surface, which would be really great with the pen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4
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Jun 20, 2012 14:44
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Lediur posted:The pen isn't an artificial finger that uses the conventional capacitive screen, so it's already different from most tablets on the market today. It's more like Lenovo's convertible tablets in that it has a touch digitizer for multitouch, and a separate pen digitizer for pen input, which would probably also allow for pressure sensitivity and eraser support. We already know it has eraser support. The guy demoing it during the press conference used the eraser on it and showed the two digitizers at work. I'm looking forward to the optically bonded screen. Hopefully it makes writing with the pen bearable, unlike any other tablet PC I've used.
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Jun 20, 2012 15:34
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Bioalchemist posted:If XBMC ended up on WinRT, with decent performance, I could easily make that the only computer I'd own. Hah, that would be very interesting. I'm sure it will happen too, since XBMC was unofficially ported to the iOS, and has since then become an official port too, I believe. I did a test run of it on my iPhone 4 a while back. Not that I care about this, though, since I'll get the Pro, but that still is a nice though. Never bothered to put XBMC on my W500, though. I should at least put it on a flash drive or memory stick.
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Jun 20, 2012 15:43
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Lediur posted:The pen isn't an artificial finger that uses the conventional capacitive screen, so it's already different from most tablets on the market today. It's more like Lenovo's convertible tablets in that it has a touch digitizer for multitouch, and a separate pen digitizer for pen input, which would probably also allow for pressure sensitivity and eraser support.
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Jun 20, 2012 15:55
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Lediur posted:For me, I'm waiting to see if Microsoft used their touch response research in the Surface, which would be really great with the pen: If that's the video I'm thinking of, it's less "hey, guys, we eliminated input lag!" and more "hey, guys, look how much better things will be when we figure out how to eliminate input lag!".
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Jun 20, 2012 16:18
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Has the magsafe-type charger been mentioned yet? Its probably the thing I am most looking forward to on this thing.
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Jun 20, 2012 16:44
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kri kri posted:Has the magsafe-type charger been mentioned yet? Its probably the thing I am most looking forward to on this thing. A magnetic breakaway charger+data connection is pretty drat cool I must say.
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Jun 20, 2012 17:02
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Jerk McJerkface posted:That video, while impressive, isn't actually using a screen to display the image. It's using a project over head to project the square. It does seem that it's using the surface (ha) as a touch screen, so any input lag reduced off that should be pretty substantial no matter the display method. Displays (at least computer monitors) nowadays have pretty quick input response and only a few ms of lag. Does anyone know what the biggest bottleneck for touchscreen input lag is?
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Jun 20, 2012 19:57
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I'm not sure what the context is in this video but it seemed to have frozen during the presentation. Whoops.
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Jun 20, 2012 20:01
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Boris Galerkin posted:I'm not sure what the context is in this video but it seemed to have frozen during the presentation. Whoops. Yea it did. But hey, beta software on prototype hardware. One thing I really like about Microsoft presentations is how they spend part of it just nerding out and going into technical reasons why they did things. Just lets people know that they're still nerdy as all hell.
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Jun 20, 2012 21:58
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Lediur posted:The pen isn't an artificial finger that uses the conventional capacitive screen, so it's already different from most tablets on the market today. It's more like Lenovo's convertible tablets in that it has a touch digitizer for multitouch, and a separate pen digitizer for pen input, which would probably also allow for pressure sensitivity and eraser support. That was a user experience experiment, there is no technology in that video which would actually enable high performance touch input on a tablet device.
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Jun 20, 2012 23:36
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Lediur posted:It does seem that it's using the surface (ha) as a touch screen, so any input lag reduced off that should be pretty substantial no matter the display method. Displays (at least computer monitors) nowadays have pretty quick input response and only a few ms of lag. Does anyone know what the biggest bottleneck for touchscreen input lag is? I bet they used a camera detection technology, a la the old Surface (that is, the table sized touch interface). It used a projector to display and a camera to detect "touch". It is very clear that they are not using a viable portable technology in that video, he even ends it with "in the next 10 years."
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Jun 20, 2012 23:55
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Startacus posted:Yea it did. But hey, beta software on prototype hardware. That right there is reason enough that they should have waited on this announcement. Make drat well sure it won't crash on stage at your own event before showing it off, you know?
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Jun 21, 2012 00:02
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Startacus posted:Yea it did. But hey, beta software on prototype hardware. Demoing beta software live on stage is such a terrible PR move. I can guarantee that the crashing tablet is going to get the most traction on social media sites. EDIT: Prime example, on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/vbmxz/microsofts_new_tab_surface_freezes_during_the/
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Jun 21, 2012 00:06
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dooTrieux posted:That right there is reason enough that they should have waited on this announcement. Make drat well sure it won't crash on stage at your own event before showing it off, you know? Hmm, I don't know that it makes much of a difference...I mean it hardly got any play in the media, and if it did make a difference it may still of been worth it to preempt tablet stuff at Google I/O.
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Jun 21, 2012 00:26
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Thermopyle posted:Hmm, I don't know that it makes much of a difference...I mean it hardly got any play in the media, and if it did make a difference it may still of been worth it to preempt tablet stuff at Google I/O. I really liked the Surface and I've planned on buying a Windows 8 Pro tablet for a while, but man, six months is a long time to wait for a device.
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Jun 21, 2012 01:09
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Jerk McJerkface posted:I really liked the Surface and I've planned on buying a Windows 8 Pro tablet for a while, but man, six months is a long time to wait for a device. I agree, it's tough, but what are you saying with regards to MS? I mean are you saying you'd just not get it because they're making you wait?
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Jun 21, 2012 01:40
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Thermopyle posted:I agree, it's tough, but what are you saying with regards to MS? I mean are you saying you'd just not get it because they're making you wait? Nah, it's just that if the device was close enough where after the announcement they had a link where you could pre-order it, and it was a month or two away, they probably could have some a million right here, but six months is a long time to keep the hype and momentum of a product launch up. With Google I/O a week away, and the likely announcement of a Google Nexus tablet at ~$200, I'm probably going to buy that, since six months is a long time, and $200 is nothing really. EDIT: Also, Windows 8 is coming out in October, mostly likely, which is only a 3 months away, so I was expecting to wait, and get a Windows 8 tablet then, but the Surface Pro won't be out until December at the earliest. That's a long time to sit on a purchase, especially when Asus has released some interesting products, and I'm sure that Lenovo has something forth coming as well. Super-NintendoUser fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 21, 2012 01:53
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Thermopyle posted:I agree, it's tough, but what are you saying with regards to MS? I mean are you saying you'd just not get it because they're making you wait? Teasing poo poo half a year in advance is a good way to make everyone lose their excitement about the product by the time it finally comes out.
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Jun 21, 2012 01:53
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Syrinxx posted:Teasing poo poo half a year in advance is a good way to make everyone lose their excitement about the product by the time it finally comes out.
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Jun 21, 2012 01:55
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:I don't think immediate availability is a necessity, but it should be timely. WebOS suffered dramatically for this. It had a strong showing at CES, and slowly lost traction over the course of several months before it finally came out. At the very least, firm dates are useful. It's my understanding the SDK isn't even out yet, which for launching a new platform seems like a bad idea.
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Jun 21, 2012 02:15
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MrBond posted:At the very least, firm dates are useful. It's my understanding the SDK isn't even out yet, which for launching a new platform seems like a bad idea. The SDK has been out since last September?
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Jun 21, 2012 02:32
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Not only is the SDK out, there are dev devices available for whatever Windows On ARM is called this month. Microsoft is still pretty nice to major developers.
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Jun 21, 2012 03:39
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Syrinxx posted:Someone said it earlier in the thread but the reason Apple's product launches are so cool is because they have a big event and it ends with "ok it's available now go get it!" On the other hand, Apple's approach isn't good for getting developers on board quickly. Every time Apple rolls out a hardware feature in iOS that needs software-level support, it takes time for the market to react. Think about how few iPad-native apps there were when the iPad launched, how few retina-capable apps there were when the iPhone 4 launched, and so on. They can get away with it because iOS established itself before app stores ever existed and new iOS devices are carefully designed with backward compatibility in mind, but the same isn't true for WinRT. Right now, the WinRT ecosystem doesn't exist at all. Microsoft is probably thinking a lot about Windows Phone 7, and how it slid into a "nobody makes any WP7 apps - nobody makes any money on WP7 apps - why would I spend any time or money developing for WP7, where nobody makes any money?" death spiral almost right out of the gate. On the other hand, if they can convince devs that this will be the next big platform, and offer development tools now, they can have some worthwhile apps other than Office available at launch.
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Jun 21, 2012 04:29
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Startacus posted:We already know it has eraser support. The guy demoing it during the press conference used the eraser on it and showed the two digitizers at work. I'm looking forward to the optically bonded screen. Hopefully it makes writing with the pen bearable, unlike any other tablet PC I've used. Whats the difference between a touch screen that is opitically bonded and one that isnt.
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Jun 21, 2012 04:30
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Tab8715 posted:Whats the difference between a touch screen that is opitically bonded and one that isnt. With an optically bonded display they actually use an adhesive to glue the glass panel to the display. This does a couple of things. A) It eliminates air gap between the glass and the display which prevents condensation building up between the two and also makes the glass and display much closer so you feel like you're righting directly on the display. Trying to write with a digital pen on a non-optically bonded display is a pain in the rear end because it feels like the pen is so far away from the display. B) It increases the strength and durability of the display.
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Jun 21, 2012 04:44
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tk posted:The SDK has been out since last September? Argh - I thought I was in the WP8 thread  You're right, win8 dev sdk has been reasonable.I still dislike Microsoft's penchant for preannouncing things waaay in advance. Surface RT is presumably launching with RT but has no price nor hard specs. WP8 doesn't even have dates or an SDK really.
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Jun 21, 2012 05:37
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Space Gopher posted:Microsoft is probably thinking a lot about Windows Phone 7, and how it slid into a "nobody makes any WP7 apps - nobody makes any money on WP7 apps - why would I spend any time or money developing for WP7, where nobody makes any money?" death spiral almost right out of the gate. On the other hand, if they can convince devs that this will be the next big platform, and offer development tools now, they can have some worthwhile apps other than Office available at launch. I think this is exactly what's going on with the very early announcement. There have been other more transparent decisions like the (now retracted) restriction on VS Express to Metro-only development, presumably in order to streamline (or railroad, depending on your POV) all Windows/Phone development. By combining the desktop development model, they likely hope to directly leverage Windows 8 marketshare into their mobile phones.
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Jun 21, 2012 08:55
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http://techreport.com/discussions.x/23147 Rumor: Microsoft Surface tablets to cost $599, $799 Seems a bit high for the ARM version, hopefully they can come down on the price. I would grab a Pro at that price though without a second thought.
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Jun 21, 2012 16:30
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$599 is a good price point if you want to sell 0 tablets
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Jun 21, 2012 16:35
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If the x86 surface tab turns out to have good battery life, 799 may not be too bad a price point since it is a real PC that can be docked at home. It could be the first real desktop/mobile/handheld full-featured PC. But that doesn't mean I plan on buying one. :/
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Jun 21, 2012 16:53
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$799 is a pretty awkward price point, considering the entry level Macbook Air is only $200 more.
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Jun 21, 2012 18:11
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I'd expect to pay about $800 or a bit more for the pro version (and have no complaints about it - I plan on buying one at launch if that's the case), but there's no way I'd pay over $500 for the RT version. I probably wouldn't pay more than $450.
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Jun 21, 2012 18:16
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Turnquiet posted:If the x86 surface tab turns out to have good battery life, 799 may not be too bad a price point since it is a real PC that can be docked at home. It could be the first real desktop/mobile/handheld full-featured PC. The RT one, though...the only way they'll be able to get away with that is if they market it as a tablet/laptop hybrid that can do roughly what people need to do with a laptop, though without the x86 compatibility. Having the built-in Office suite will help with that, but it's still a tricky sell unless Metro gets a shitton of productivity apps that leverage the keyboard thing.
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Jun 21, 2012 18:27
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Space Gopher posted:Microsoft is probably thinking a lot about Windows Phone 7, and how it slid into a "nobody makes any WP7 apps - nobody makes any money on WP7 apps - why would I spend any time or money developing for WP7, where nobody makes any money?" death spiral almost right out of the gate. Most developers feel the issue with monetizing WP7 is that Microsoft has no in-app purchase model. Smart phone users who are willing to pay premium prices for apps all got iPhones awhile ago. Android learned this pretty quick and Angry Birds debuted with ad-supported and eventually in-app purchase models. The most successful developer showed this by posting his sales figures at http://www.occasionalgamer.com/ and showed that the only way to make serious money on WP7 is through an ad-supported model. I really hope MS launches WP8/Windows 8 with a good IAP system.
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Jun 21, 2012 18:39
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Stick100 posted:Most developers feel the issue with monetizing WP7 is that Microsoft has no in-app purchase model. Smart phone users who are willing to pay premium prices for apps all got iPhones awhile ago. Android learned this pretty quick and Angry Birds debuted with ad-supported and eventually in-app purchase models. They mentioned IAP in the WP8 meeting a few days ago. It links to your phones walled account and bills directly.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:16
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NoDamage posted:$799 is a pretty awkward price point, considering the entry level Macbook Air is only $200 more. Didn't they explicitly say they were shooting for Ultrabook type pricing on the pro model?
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Jun 21, 2012 19:25
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NoDamage posted:$799 is a pretty awkward price point, considering the entry level Macbook Air is only $200 more. Getting something that is more featured and about the same specs for $200 is considered awkward?
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Jun 21, 2012 19:27
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Jerk McJerkface posted:Getting something that is more featured and about the same specs for $200 is considered awkward?
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Jun 21, 2012 19:30
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