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kimbo305 posted:How many sparring sessions have you done at the gym? I think it took me about 2 months before I had the endurance to spar, and before that, I was the mobile punching bag. My cardio was fine for other stuff, but it just took a lot out of me to be sparring. If you find yourself able to execute attacks from bell to bell, just stay on the offensive the whole time. Yes, you will get countered by some people, but forcing them to defend will reduce the rate at which you get landed on. mewse posted:It still feels like we're missing part of the story with this guy. If you check his posts he says his first sparring session was a disaster and his coaches told him that maybe he wasn't ready yet. That is ludicrous for a guy that's been training 3 times a week for four years. Maybe I'm being a little hard on myself, I keep my gloves up the entire time and throw punches/combos and got a SINGULAR "Good combo" remark when I lead with a front kick for space and followed up with a 3. Or a "nice" when I caught a body kick and hit a guy onto his rear end with my cross. But those moments are brief in an hour long session of me getting hit by guys that are better and bigger than I am. I just think that in a more relaxed environment with people more on my level that I'd be able to try things out and see how things worked without going home with a pounding headache.
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Jun 21, 2012 03:27
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You need to take everything you learned in pad work and forget it for right now. Learn how your distance and timing and how to land a punch. Also in my gym you don't get pad work until after you've sparred. Pad work is a supplement to sparring as it teaches you combinations that you can work on after you know how and when you can land.
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Jun 21, 2012 03:49
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Honestly, I think you're being a little too critical of your advancement and over exasperated. No offense, but 5 sparring sessions spread out of as many months is not a significant amount of experience. I've got over 2 years and 7 fights under my belt, and there are plenty of nights where I still get my poo poo pushed in. That's normal, and good. Really, I'd be far more concerned about the caliber of your gym if you were kicking everyone's rear end with that much experience. If you're concerned you're not getting a chance to work on your problem areas, say something. There is no shame in asking your partner to dial it back a bit so you can work on something. Tell them what you're having a problem with, and if they're even a halfway decent fighter/Human being, they will work with you. Going hard on you isn't necessarily a sign of people trying to keep you down. They very well could just assume you're okay with that level of aggression since you haven't said otherwise. They may even recognize your weaknesses, and be trying to help expose them to you. Moving from experienced fighters to your untrained friends in your backyard is going to hamper you far more then getting roughed up regularly. They will not be able to expose you to challenging situations, like this one! Don't get discouraged when you get worked over. Analyze what your weaknesses were, and focus on improving them.
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Jun 21, 2012 03:54
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TheStampede posted:Moving from experienced fighters to your untrained friends in your backyard is going to hamper you far more then getting roughed up regularly. Yep. Excellence breeds excellence
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Jun 21, 2012 03:57
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Omar posted:It ain't what you takin', it's who you takin' from, ya feel me? How you expect to run with the wolves come night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies?
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Jun 21, 2012 05:11
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So... You've had 4 sparring sessions ever and you're not good at it. No poo poo?! Just try to relax, focus on breathing, if you're getting hit too hard just ask them to go lighter. It takes time to improve.
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Jun 21, 2012 05:47
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gimpsuitjones posted:So... You've had 4 sparring sessions ever and you're not good at it. No poo poo?! Just try to relax, focus on breathing, if you're getting hit too hard just ask them to go lighter. It takes time to improve.
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Jun 21, 2012 06:13
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Paper Diamonds posted:I guess my confidence is shot because of the first two sessions that resulted in me getting pulled from sparring. So far, as far as I can tell, I have been performing about the same as before. In those first 2 months, I was sparring 2-3 times a week. Every time, my coach would yell at me to shape up or ship out. He never did keep me from sparring. Tough love, I suppose. Anyways, it took forever to start learning how to really fight.
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Jun 21, 2012 06:34
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Paper Diamonds posted:Is it really that unheard of for someone to be good at hitting pads and bags but not good at hitting people? No, that's completely normal and in fact to be expected. I'll just refer to my experiences as that's easy. We just had the new boxe française summer basic course start and there's a bunch of people who've been doing the "fitness" versions of either Savate or boxing for a few years. That means they've been punching the bag or pads for a few years. Some of them even have good technique and form, good cardio and punch or kick hard. However that doesn't translate to sparring well for any of them, at all, nor should it. That's a whole new skill they need to learn and in the meantime forget the fact they can throw a nice four strike combination on a static target because now they have a moving target that will punch back. Just learning technique and punching a bag is a simulation of the movements you have to perform in sparring/in a fight, it's not the real thing and can't be. And the only way they can learn this "sparring" stuff is to do it, and preferably a ton. As an anecdote, I can simply extend my left hand in a bad approximation of a jab at the face someone who has been doing heavy bag work for two years, and with a minimum of timing it will hit his face and throw him completely off. He'll also probably tense up so bad he'll gas out in 30 seconds. Just saying, same goes for you. You need 20 or rather 120 more sparring sessions before you or anyone else should be making any serious judgments. If you get with like every punch, like the guy who has been hitting the bag for two years, ask people to go easier on you, simple as that. If they are not shitheads they should leave you openings and tone it down to your level or just slightly above your level and only whoop your rear end once in a while. Oh and by the way, did you know that surprisingly often someone who seems hopeless at first but just has the tenacity to push forward irregardless will emerge as one of the better guys or girls at a given gym over time? It's true.
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Jun 21, 2012 08:12
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kimbo305 posted:In those first 2 months, I was sparring 2-3 times a week. Every time, my coach would yell at me to shape up or ship out. He never did keep me from sparring. Tough love, I suppose. Anyways, it took forever to start learning how to really fight. I don't know about you guys but when I first sparred I was given little goals against better people. E.g The first time I sparred was against a much better guy from the advanced class who was about a foot shorter than me, my coach said "Don't worry about getting a combo off or even punching him, just try and keep him away, you've got the height that's all you need to do". He slipped me and just started pummelling me every time. The second round was against a guy of roughly equal skill who promptly kicked me in the balls with a teep. I learnt so much more against the good guy. Just set yourself little goals.
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Jun 21, 2012 08:57
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Paper Diamonds posted:I guess my confidence is shot because of the first two sessions that resulted in me getting pulled from sparring. So far, as far as I can tell, I have been performing about the same as before. It can take ages to get comfortable with having people trying to hit you in the face and being able to maintain your composure and technique while that's going on. It's really a whole new skillset past hitting pads. Wait until you get comfortable sparring and then start clinching, back to square one of 'I know loving nothing!' Just keep at it. And for the love of god don't spar with untrained friends in your garage or whatever. You learn a shitload through getting beaten up by much better people, way more than you do by spastically hitting retards on the lawn, and you're less likely to get hurt or form bad habits.
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Jun 21, 2012 09:43
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Paper Diamonds posted:I guess my confidence is shot because of the first two sessions that resulted in me getting pulled from sparring. So far, as far as I can tell, I have been performing about the same as before. It sounds like either your coach is testing how well you respond to pressure, if you'll quit like a baby or step up your game and train harder. Or you got hosed over by a bad trainer If you got hosed over by a bad coach who developed bad training habits and cultivated them in you,. Even if you drill for four loving years you should know enough to set a basic guard so that not too much gets through. Pads don't necessarily translate well into sparring. What you should be learning is how to play. Just play sparring around at a super slow pace. No pads, no gear, just slow and controlled. Drills with gear should be at full or high strength, and variable. If he's testing you, you should evaluate why you want to train. Do you want to fight? At what level? How often? Because I can tell you right now, 3 times a week for an hour or two is utter poo poo. Edit: 'it takes ages to learn how to get hit is hyperbole. It does take a long time, and there are a ton of variable factors, I.e. who is hitting how hard etc. But you need to get over this fear of getting hit asap, and not use this hyperbole to justify your crappiness, no matter how valid it might be. Guilty fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 21, 2012 09:59
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Paper Diamonds posted:I'm not amazing at MT, but that was still kind of a rear end in a top hat remark Paul Pot. How am I supposed to find a sparring partner if not at my gym through the sparring program? And like I said, at my gym there are no "partners", you spar with everybody who shows up to spar that day, regardless of skill level. The internet's not not a place to mince words in my mind and I'm criticizing your gym moreso than your ability. I called this situation bizarre because it just doesn't make any sense. Either you're a bit of a drama queen or your training at a really lovely gym. 4 years of padwork is a long time even if it's on/off. Like KidDynamite said, sparring and padwork go hand in hand so your gym's philosophy seems way off (the only somewhat reasonable excuse I can think of is that your coach didn't let you spar because you trained infrequently so your heart might not be in it). You're describing the sparring as a completely one-sided affair where you're getting hit by every punch. This really shouldn't happen after practicing technique and padwork for that long unless your gym has a lovely bully mentality and these guys are trying to embarrass you instead of practicing with you. Playing devil's advocate, maybe it's not as bad as you're making it sound and they just assume that you've got the technical ability and simply need to learn how to react to pressure. After all you're surviving an hour of sparring without injury (that's a long time, especially after 2 hours of training - we spar for 45 mins max) and you're not asking them to go lighter. The 3rd weird part is that you're getting no feedback from your coach. Some of the guys here seem to enjoy a tough love coach but I think it's stupid macho bullshit (same with enjoying getting punched :P). I started sparring after a few weeks of technique training. It took me another 2-3 weeks to break out of a defensive shell, it took 2-3 months to break the habit of stopping to breathe when getting into exchanges, it took another 2-3 months to get to the point where punches are no longer a scary thing, but a thing that hurts my ego. Once I got over that threshhold I improved dramatically. I got better because coaches and sparring partners encouraged me to attack instead of being all defensive and because my coach told me to go lighter but focus on my breathing. These things take time (unless you're one of those natural fighters), but without feedback you're going to keep stagnating. I'd give it a few more weeks, but by then you should know whether you're overreacting or you need to find a better gym. I've only heard 1 side of the story, so I can only speculate.
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Jun 21, 2012 11:57
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Had another sparring session last night and holy.gently caress. it was AWESOME. It was the first session where I just felt loving confident. I tried my mantra of "if I get pummeled, parry/block and push IN until I can clinch" and it loving worked! I went up against my arch-nemesis The Growler*TM and when he started tagging me with hooks I took that as a sign he was in close enough to pull him in and start throwing knees. Even got a lot of complements on my clinching and spinning! After that I just kept pushing, moving forward only, maybe lean back but always moving forward, throwing combos, kicks, teeps, I felt like a beast. I didn't care that I was getting hit because it meant there had to be an opening to get SOMETHING in. That was the first round, after that with other partners I just felt invincible. Jabbing in, quick combos, clinching when I could, always pushing forward and just generally playing around and trying to have fun doing different techniques. I swear it was like night and day, I just have to keep this up! Now, I still have SO much work to do. I'm still eating more punches than I feel I should, I'm not parrying punches very well, I'm eating a ton of leg kicks because I'm too slow to parry, I'm not really moving around/slipping enough, my form still suffers a bit, I don't keep my hands tight enough to my face when blocking, etc. I'm not trying to be self-deprecating, I know these are all life-long goals but it's good to feel like I know what I have to improve on. It feels like I've turned a bit of a corner and I can only go up.  Paper Diamond - if it's any consolation, read through my posts on the last few pages, I've generally only gone up against people who are way better than me and it can be demoralizing when you don't ever get a chance to feel like you've done well or improved. I suspect I will still feel like that on occasion but the more you do something, anything, the better you will get at it. Just don't give up.
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Jun 21, 2012 18:07
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Paul Pot posted:Some of the guys here seem to enjoy a tough love coach but I think it's stupid macho bullshit (same with enjoying getting punched :P). This reminds me. My posts sometimes read like I enjoy getting punched, but that's not actually the thing I enjoy. I enjoy the learning process and the process involves being punched at and being engaged. Can these become somehow, perversely, intwined  This might be true for others as well... But yeah I'm against the tough love mentality as a rule. People learn or advance in completely different ways. I like the soft, easy to approach and encouraging style (that's what I use by default, but I don't really train fighters though, just try to shove people towards that path when possible). quote:I started sparring after a few weeks of technique training. It took me another 2-3 weeks to break out of a defensive shell, it took 2-3 months to break the habit of stopping to breathe when getting into exchanges, it took another 2-3 months to get to the point where punches are no longer a scary thing, but a thing that hurts my ego. Once I got over that threshhold I improved dramatically. I got better because coaches and sparring partners encouraged me to attack instead of being all This is a really good description, IMO, about the Path to Sparring. I bet that's how a lot of us go through it and the timeframe sounds pretty common  It's not something that happens in an instant or people (or at least very few) are born with. It takes tiiiime. edit: TollTheHounds posted:After that I just kept pushing, moving forward only, maybe lean back but always moving forward, throwing combos, kicks, teeps, I felt like a beast. I didn't care that I was getting hit because it meant there had to be an opening to get SOMETHING in. Oh. You had a "gently caress it" moment? Awesome  You took a telling step and are now better with one short but important leap and ready to get even more so. The next "gently caress it" is going to be even better.
Ligur fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 21, 2012 18:40
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Hey, just getting back into Kickboxing/MT/MMA whatever here. Because I just restarted after a long hiatus, I've taken back all my old bad habits. I did 5-6yrs of Karate as a teenager and because of that, I'm still kicking that stupid roundhouse snap kick where I'm basically throwing my knee up, then snapping my leg out. Any good drills or things to focus on to get a better, standard thai kick in? I know a good trick is to step/pivot into it with your other leg, but how do I get that hip really into it?
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Jun 21, 2012 19:29
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swagger like us posted:Hey, just getting back into Kickboxing/MT/MMA whatever here. Because I just restarted after a long hiatus, I've taken back all my old bad habits. I did 5-6yrs of Karate as a teenager and because of that, I'm still kicking that stupid roundhouse snap kick where I'm basically throwing my knee up, then snapping my leg out. Any good drills or things to focus on to get a better, standard thai kick in? I know a good trick is to step/pivot into it with your other leg, but how do I get that hip really into it? When you start out, just look the direction you're kicking every time you kick and your hip will turn over. Eventually you won't need to look and everything will be fine
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Jun 21, 2012 19:41
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swagger like us posted:Hey, just getting back into Kickboxing/MT/MMA whatever here. Because I just restarted after a long hiatus, I've taken back all my old bad habits. I did 5-6yrs of Karate as a teenager and because of that, I'm still kicking that stupid roundhouse snap kick where I'm basically throwing my knee up, then snapping my leg out. Any good drills or things to focus on to get a better, standard thai kick in? I know a good trick is to step/pivot into it with your other leg, but how do I get that hip really into it? Woodchippers. Have someone wrap their arm around your ankle so your ankle's in the crook of their elbow, between their elbow and their body. Hop on your bottom foot (to turn it sideways) and turn your hip over, press off and hop back to your original position.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:42
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STRIKECHAT Today I practiced with a friend who has problems punching people in the face (at least hard), for about 15 x 1 minute rounds with the rule I can't punch back but only practice blocking, hand blocks or head movement. Both win and had a great time: I got to practice avoiding 2-6 strike combinations and my partner just trying to hit someone in the face. Posting this because there has been so much about "how to spar" lately in the thread. There are many ways, but this is one of those along with the 3 vs 3 or 5 vs 5. Both got something out of it and built a good sweat - now he knows how to follow up with combinations better to land a hit and I got better just slipping those combinations. This is the stuff that helps you to go into live or hard sparring at some point.
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Jun 21, 2012 20:59
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Guilty posted:If he's testing you, you should evaluate why you want to train. Do you want to fight? At what level? How often? Because I can tell you right now, 3 times a week for an hour or two is utter poo poo. Paul Pot posted:4 years of padwork is a long time even if it's on/off. Like KidDynamite said, After all you're surviving an hour of sparring without injury (that's a long time, especially after 2 hours of training - we spar for 45 mins max) and you're not asking them to go lighter.  I feel like I derailed the thread about my sparring experience and guess what? At BJJ today I jacked up my neck in a guillotine. The entire muscle from jaw to the top of my shoulder along the neck is so painful I can't turn my head left. Looks like I won't be sparring tomorrow. go figure.
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Jun 21, 2012 21:46
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Paper Diamonds posted:
BJJ seems to have lots of minor strains and small injuries. I'm still a complete newbie, but everyone seems to always have something in a brace or something, and there's always a couple of people sitting out after the warmup/technique part of the class.
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Jun 21, 2012 23:20
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Nothing MA related is a derail man. Sorry to hear about the neck though! Remember with guillotines to keep their hips away from you and you'll stay safe even against the most determined cranker.
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Jun 22, 2012 01:59
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Paul Pot posted:4 years of padwork is a long time even if it's on/off. Like KidDynamite said, sparring and padwork go hand in hand
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Jun 22, 2012 02:24
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Agreed, the best pad puncher in the world will spar like poo poo unless trains a ton of sparring as well. It's two different things, seriously different things. They support each other, but as long as you leave the other out, they will never mesh in any way.
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Jun 22, 2012 05:15
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Guilty posted:Sorry, but this is wrong as poo poo unless you're Saenchai (hint, you're not). Pads is vital for sparring, but nothing is like sparring except sparring. Don't delude yourself into thinking that if you can hit the pads good, you can hit the opponent good Which part is wrong? My point is that padwork helps your sparring and sparring helps your padwork. Practicing one without the other for years on end isn't a good training philosophy and makes me question the gym. "Hand in hand" as in they belong together, not that one is like the other..calm down.
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Jun 22, 2012 08:16
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I guess he thought you said good padwork equals decent sparring (you didn't).
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Jun 22, 2012 10:42
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STRIKECHAT (these tags are good for people who skim) How do you guys prevent opponents from catching your body kicks? I don't want to ever get wrestlefucked because someone caught my leg. I've got a couple of the basics: Set up your kicks Fake into strikes if they drop their hands to catch Throw less-telegraphed Thai kicks instead of the very telegraphed Dutch ones Flail out of it if they catch your kick Anything I should add? edit: that's actually my go-to single-leg defense \/\/\/ Fontoyn fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jun 22, 2012 |
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Jun 22, 2012 16:03
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Fontoyn posted:STRIKECHAT (these tags are good for people who skim) Posting every second post because vacation and not yet in another country  You should add that.
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Jun 22, 2012 16:22
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Hey all. I try not to post that many links back to my own site, unless they're absolutely relevant or helpful. Anyway, the JKD (Bruce Lee's martial art) community seems to be going into a virtual meltdown at the moment. One of its most prominent instructors, Paul Vunak, has gone off the deep end and has been threatening to gently caress people up. Here are a couple of excerpts from the restraining order request against him, by his former business partner:   More details, and an analysis by our staff lawyer on the subject: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=116849
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Jun 22, 2012 18:25
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Martial arts is probably the worst business to get into. Millions of egos and bullshit for an incredibly thin margin
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Jun 22, 2012 20:23
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Xguard86 posted:Martial arts is probably the worst business to get into. Millions of egos and bullshit for an incredibly thin margin The worst is the stories about rival schools feuding like some sort of hillbillies from 1860. What the hell, guys? I don't know if it's just the natural proportion of stupid assholes in the population, or if people want to live out a kung fu movie and fight for their sifu, or what but Jesus Christ. I can do without the lectures on how martial arts is really about avoiding violence but apparently we have some grown adults who need them. McNerd fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jun 22, 2012 |
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Jun 22, 2012 20:46
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They just have no way to actually compete because no one is willing to spar or put together any kind of live competition. It's also a lot of egos running wild for basically the same reason. I guess live competition schools have feuds too, and guys like Roger Mayweather are awful but it seems to get really really bad and embarrassing for non live styles.
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Jun 22, 2012 20:55
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That's what I always used to think, and I'm sure it's worse there. But I have to admit, the guy I have in mind is a Gracie who was bragging about getting in a street fight over school pride in Brazil. Pretty lame.
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Jun 22, 2012 21:03
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I feel like getting into a street fight is less embarrassing than ridiculous name calling and idle threats. Maybe not the best opinion
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Jun 22, 2012 21:07
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I was recently perusing the school/gym reviews on bullshido, and there is a review for the College of William and Mary bjj club - in which the OP talks about how they frequently "call out" the other martial arts clubs and beat them, etc. There was some dispute in that thread over whether such call outs ever actually occurred, but in my opinion it is a) an incredibly immature thing to do in general and b) even more immature to brag about it later. But then, college students.
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Jun 22, 2012 21:11
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This is why boxing owns. Your gym either puts up or shuts up.
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Jun 22, 2012 21:13
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McNerd posted:That's what I always used to think, and I'm sure it's worse there. But I have to admit, the guy I have in mind is a Gracie who was bragging about getting in a street fight over school pride in Brazil. Pretty lame. There's an old video of Rickson Gracie fighting with a wrestler on the beach in Rio that was used by the Gracie school as advertisement. "This is what you'll be able to do!" For many years, there was a huge overlap between BJJ students in Rio and young men who enjoyed going out and picking fights with basically anyone. BJJ students were responsible for many, many street fights, for reasons ranging from school pride to "he looked at my girlfriend funny". I've also had a lot of contact with the capoeira community and that one is also street fights for your pride, all the time. The situation is much better now. But BJJ still carries a bad reputation for most laymen. I've had to endure more than a weird, "I never thought you were that kind of person" look when telling people I'm doing BJJ...
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Jun 22, 2012 21:13
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Cyphoderus posted:There's an old video of Rickson Gracie fighting with a wrestler on the beach in Rio that was used by the Gracie school as advertisement. "This is what you'll be able to do!" For many years, there was a huge overlap between BJJ students in Rio and young men who enjoyed going out and picking fights with basically anyone. BJJ students were responsible for many, many street fights, for reasons ranging from school pride to "he looked at my girlfriend funny". I've also had a lot of contact with the capoeira community and that one is also street fights for your pride, all the time. When BJJ was beginning to mainstream in the US, I remember reading an article that discussed the rise of young men in Rio who were learning jujitsu then picking fights at night. This was probably, I dunno, twelve years ago?
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Jun 22, 2012 21:20
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Cyphoderus posted:There's an old video of Rickson Gracie fighting with a wrestler on the beach in Rio that was used by the Gracie school as advertisement. "This is what you'll be able to do!" For many years, there was a huge overlap between BJJ students in Rio and young men who enjoyed going out and picking fights with basically anyone. BJJ students were responsible for many, many street fights, for reasons ranging from school pride to "he looked at my girlfriend funny". I've also had a lot of contact with the capoeira community and that one is also street fights for your pride, all the time. Seriously?
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Jun 22, 2012 22:08
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Maybe it's like one of those Step Up movies where you solve all your feuds by having Fresher Moves than the other guy
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Jun 22, 2012 22:50
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