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Paul Pot posted:guys like cro cop and wanderlei clearly have padded records, but there's no point in working those fights unless you want to protect the poor pro wrestler's health (they didn't). that's just a dumb thing chael started saying because that idiot pro wrestler friend of his probably still thinks he's a real fighter and wants to save face. It's not easy to gauge a lot of the competition they faced in pride because the stable as a whole was very top heavy. You had at that middle/welter (lhw and Mw) division some stacked guys like Rampage, Shogun, Henderson, Wanderlei, Arona, lil nog, while in the UFC you had Chris Leben, Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, Randy Couture, Rich Franklin, Griffin, Bonnar and Quarry. While some they would have won and have won when they arrived in the UFC the point could be argued that had it been one large talent pool guys like Arona, Silva and Jackson wouldn't necessarily have had the runs they did in pride. The other thing to remember too is that at times fighters were legitimately forced to fight injured and in pain, Nog's story of not being able to walk accross a street but laced 'em up that night rings a bell, as does the story of Anderson Silva fighting with a severely injured (broken?) leg against Chonan. There were likely some works, there was also a lot of Japanese guys who'd made a name for themselves in pro wrestling, shoot fighting and in Judo etc comps who simply weren't conditioned to go toe to toe with a lot of the top tier talent. So they got walked through. Even if fighters got paid the same amount to lose, it's possible they took the fights and the money because they hadn't had fights against opponents of that calibre and simply didn't realise how deep the waters were that they were entering.
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Jun 8, 2012 10:10
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Who has the best muay thai in MMA?
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Jun 24, 2012 17:20
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Julio Cesar Fatass posted:Who has the best muay thai in MMA? possibly anderson?
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Jun 24, 2012 17:38
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either Aldo, Anderson or Jones
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Jun 24, 2012 17:56
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Paul Pot posted:either Aldo, Anderson or Jones I don't know which Jones you're referring to but I really hope you don't mean the DUI snitch.
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Jun 25, 2012 00:10
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Julio Cesar Fatass posted:Who has the best muay thai in MMA? duane "bang" ludwig, and by the transitive property gomi
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Jun 25, 2012 00:15
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killa b whenever he makes his triumphant return to where he belongs.
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Jun 25, 2012 01:56
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david carmichael posted:duane "bang" ludwig, and by the transitive property gomi Sam Stout is like some north american MT champ or something too.
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Jun 25, 2012 02:15
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BlindSite posted:I don't know which Jones you're referring to but I really hope you don't mean the DUI snitch. Jones has great muay thai?
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Jun 25, 2012 04:01
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He expended too much energy and got tired
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Dangersim posted:Jones has great muay thai? Jones is good at a lot of things, he does not have technically proficient muay thai
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Jun 25, 2012 04:22
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I don't really train much stand up so i cant speak to the technical aspects, but it seems pretty effective
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Jun 25, 2012 05:24
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yes jones is good at mma
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Jun 25, 2012 05:27
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Dangersim posted:I don't really train much stand up so i cant speak to the technical aspects, but it seems pretty effective Then you would say Jon Jones has a good stand up game. Not that he's got top 3 muay thai in the UFC.
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Jun 25, 2012 05:35
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BlindSite posted:Then you would say Jon Jones has a good stand up game. Not that he's got top 3 muay thai in the UFC. Would you say he is the Michael Jordan of Muay Thai in the UFC Jonny Bones Jones Joe Rogan?
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Jun 25, 2012 05:46
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BlindSite posted:Jones is good at a lot of things, he does not have technically proficient muay thai Nobody in the UFC uses traditional muay thai techniques more effectively than him. There are still better "strikers" in MMA (untill he passes them in like a year), but that wasn't the question.
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Jun 25, 2012 07:49
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BlindSite posted:Sam Stout is like some north american MT champ or something too. sam stout was like a canadar long pant kickboxing champion
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Jun 25, 2012 18:02
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Paul Pot posted:Nobody in the UFC uses traditional muay thai techniques more effectively than him. There are still better "strikers" in MMA (untill he passes them in like a year), but that wasn't the question. Actually the question was who has the best muay thai in mma, and to make your lovely answer of Jones seem less like bullshit you have to extrapolate that out to "nobody in the ufc uses traditional muay thai techniques more effectively", which is rear end covering bullshit to protect you from the fact you aren't really sure if any awesome muay thai guys are working it out in lesser organizations and also you throw the word effectively in there so that him winning stand up exchanges in MMA somehow backs up the idea he has the best muay thai but you're actually just trolling so gently caress off with this dumb poo poo please ps the best Muay Thai fighter in mma probably wouldn't get outboxed by a girl http://www.middleeasy.com/index.php...4:organizations
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Jun 25, 2012 18:05
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Paul Pot posted:Nobody in the UFC uses traditional muay thai techniques more effectively than him. There are still better "strikers" in MMA (untill he passes them in like a year), but that wasn't the question. What traditional Muay Thai techniques does Jones use? Keep in mind that Thailand doesn't have any kind of monopoly on things like throwing elbows or sticking your arm out so short people can't punch you. He's a good unorthodox striker, but he isn't using the Thai Clinch or really making Thai style kicks IIRC.
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Jun 25, 2012 19:07
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I want to know what a traditional muay thai technique is? Does it include drinking all day every day including while you are training?
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Jun 25, 2012 19:20
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NovemberMike posted:What traditional Muay Thai techniques does Jones use? Keep in mind that Thailand doesn't have any kind of monopoly on things like throwing elbows or sticking your arm out so short people can't punch you. He's a good unorthodox striker, but he isn't using the Thai Clinch or really making Thai style kicks IIRC. The teep to the knee that he does is a more muay thai thing afaik
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Jun 25, 2012 19:21
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Bundt Cake posted:Actually the question was who has the best muay thai in mma, and to make your lovely answer of Jones seem less like bullshit you have to extrapolate that out to "nobody in the ufc uses traditional muay thai techniques more effectively", which is rear end covering bullshit to protect you from the fact you aren't really sure if any awesome muay thai guys are working it out in lesser organizations and also you throw the word effectively in there so that him winning stand up exchanges in MMA somehow backs up the idea he has the best muay thai Who else can claim to have the best "insert attribute" in MMA but someone who's proven it in the premier organization? Ludwig has the best credentials but it only works when he's fighting someone like Amir Sodallah. Jones has outstruck 4 former champions using mostly traditional MT techniques after only 2 years of real training!  NovemberMike posted:What traditional Muay Thai techniques does Jones use? Keep in mind that Thailand doesn't have any kind of monopoly on things like throwing elbows or sticking your arm out so short people can't punch you. He's a good unorthodox striker, but he isn't using the Thai Clinch or really making Thai style kicks IIRC. Which other martial art do you associate with standing elbows, strikes/throws from a double collar tie position & knee stomps? Those kicks he kept whacking into Rashad's midsection were textbook Thai style 
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Jun 25, 2012 19:27
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You're being intentionally obtuse to troll here and I don't care to go through the basic fundamental facts of reality with you, like jones striking is underpinned by a takedown threat But you're saying two guys holding hands and the guy with long arms elbowing the other guy in the face is a sign that he's the best muay thai fighter in the sport. You really couldn't be trolling better or being dumber. congrats if its the former
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Jun 25, 2012 19:34
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Jones' kick catch to spinning back elbow is pretty Muay Boran. Or is it more traditional "I train off DVDs" ???
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Jun 25, 2012 20:30
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Paul Pot posted:Which other martial art do you associate with standing elbows, strikes/throws from a double collar tie position & knee stomps? Those kicks he kept whacking into Rashad's midsection were textbook Thai style What do you mean by "Muay Thai"? Do you consider Dutch Kickboxing to be Muay Thai?
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Jun 26, 2012 00:02
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henkman posted:The teep to the knee that he does is a more muay thai thing afaik That kind of side kicking to the knee he does and that front on heel kick to the knee if more of a korean or kyokushin thing than it is a Muay Thai thing.
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Jun 26, 2012 00:19
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It really looks to me like he's got more of a Dutch style kickboxing background than Muay Thai. The Thai stance isn't even that suited for MMA and I'm not sure that the de-emphasis of boxing represents him. I agree that some of the things he does look like Kyokushin which is what makes me think it's Dutch style.
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Jun 26, 2012 01:33
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I vote Anderson just because hes knocked a dude out with a rising elbow, murdered fighters from the double collar clinch and gashed people up with elbows from the bottom. Pretty much the full MT circuit. However, I think its going to become impossible to answer these kind of questions very soon, because fighters are coming in with MMA striking that isn't based on starting from a different style. So JJ has many Muay Thai like techniques that hes really good at, but the guy started as an MMA striker and continues to train for MMA with no interesting in taking a striking only fight.
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Jun 26, 2012 01:53
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BlindSite posted:That kind of side kicking to the knee he does and that front on heel kick to the knee if more of a korean or kyokushin thing than it is a Muay Thai thing. Those kicks are also used a lot in Savate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f51gmRAUXEs
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Jun 26, 2012 02:44
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I like watching Donald Cerrone kick. As for who has the "best Muay Thai in MMA" it's like asking who has the "best grappling".
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Jun 26, 2012 02:48
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NovemberMike posted:What do you mean by "Muay Thai"? Do you consider Dutch Kickboxing to be Muay Thai? Dutch Kickboxing doesn't put an emphasis on elbows & clinching in most cases. I don't think any of the major kickboxing gyms over in Holland offers seperate clinching classes. BlindSite posted:That kind of side kicking to the knee he does and that front on heel kick to the knee if more of a korean or kyokushin thing than it is a Muay Thai thing. How is it less of a Muay Thai thing if it's part of the rules & used in real fights (which don't exist in "Korean" btw)? It's one thing to seriously debate whether he's the best at it (it's an impossible, stupid debate), but his standup is clearly very Muay Thai focused.
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Jun 26, 2012 08:13
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BlindSite posted:That kind of side kicking to the knee he does and that front on heel kick to the knee if more of a korean or kyokushin thing than it is a Muay Thai thing. confirmed, i did Tae Kwon Doe when i was a little kid and they taught us this to maim someone because if we didn't we'd be getting beat down really bad because Tae Kwon Doe Doesn't Work (see Shogun v Jones)
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Jun 26, 2012 08:14
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The side kick is a regular Muay Thai move, it's called Teep Khang. All the gyms where i've trained taught it, and i've seen it used in Thailand - just not as much as in long pants kickboxing.
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Jun 26, 2012 08:51
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I guess Cosmo is probably the dude with the best actual muay thai record in mma, but then he lost to some dude on a bellator prelim
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Jun 26, 2012 10:48
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Paul Pot posted:Dutch Kickboxing doesn't put an emphasis on elbows & clinching in most cases. I don't think any of the major kickboxing gyms over in Holland offers seperate clinching classes. Jones' clinch game is really heavily influenced by his Greco background, he might start with a Thai Plumb but if his opponent fights back he's pretty quick to move to underhooks. In any case, this is MMA and it's easy to add leg kicks to boxing or submissions to wrestling, or elbows to Dutch Kickboxing.
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Jun 26, 2012 13:44
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I don't think anyone will contest that this is MMA, you were saying that his standup style more closely resembles Dutch kickboxing than traditional Muay Thai, which is silly.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:03
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eine dose socken posted:long pants kickboxing. Yes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkhE4IqV_Hs
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Jun 26, 2012 16:31
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Is there like, a guide or a youtube video to accurately describe the differences between K1, Muay Thai, Dutch kickboxing, and the other types of kicking and boxings? I honestly have no idea where one begins and the other stops.
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Jun 26, 2012 17:07
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Paul Pot posted:Dutch Kickboxing doesn't put an emphasis on elbows & clinching in most cases. I don't think any of the major kickboxing gyms over in Holland offers seperate clinching classes. Sorry I thought you'd know when I said 'korean' I was referring to korean arts which are pretty heavily inbred like Hapkido and TKD which Kyokushin borrows from in certain elements. Then again you think Jones has better Muay Thai than Thiago Alves so.
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Jun 27, 2012 00:00
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Who has the best wrestling in MMA? I'm thinking Rulon Gardner, he won a gold medal 
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Jun 27, 2012 00:21
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heeebrew posted:Is there like, a guide or a youtube video to accurately describe the differences between K1, Muay Thai, Dutch kickboxing, and the other types of kicking and boxings? I honestly have no idea where one begins and the other stops. The big difference is that Muay Thai tends to promote kicks over punches, so they have this odd footwork that isn't great for moving around but lets you put out some really hellish kicks while Kickboxing tended to be based on Kyokushin Karate and Boxing which tends to lend itself towards snappier kicks and stronger punches, although power kicks tend to be based on the Thai mechanics. Calling the fighting that's done in MMA Muay Thai is generally misleading because nobody really follows through with the Thai style footwork that makes their kicks so insane. Even people like Anderson Silva that have an actual Muay Thai background tend to go for a more neutral stance that allows them to move more easily and actually defend takedowns, and try to throw Thai style kicks from that stance. They still get more power than they would with a Karate style kick, but they can't do the thing that Muay Thai fighters do where they just fire off four or five really hard kicks in a row. Here's an example of some really top level Muay Thai kicking to show off what the footwork allows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjp2nPLvYSg&t=46s Here's some Dutch Kickboxing from Overeem. Note how he's really more opportunistic with his kicks and clinch, and relies fairly heavily on his punching for the bread and butter. I'm not sure what the "Dutch don't clinch" thing was about though, Golden Glory is Dutch and they certainly have fighters in sports that allow the clinch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChB0aArKZGI&t=80s
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Jun 27, 2012 01:48
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