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Fact: stories in which the characters always do the most intelligent thing in any given situation and the heroes' plans go off without a hitch are The Most Interesting Stories In The World.
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Jun 26, 2012 18:57
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Nate RFB posted:Jack Noir, guilty of mass genocide? Cool as poo poo. Jane, fairly boring? Go get stabbed, thanks. Well, consider it this way. Think of all the readers who follow Homestuck. Then think of all that cumulative time wasted by being a terrible character. Obviously, death is warranted. Not seriously. e: ^^^^ Dude, we get it. You really like Homestuck. Hussie does not need you to rush to his side to defend every aspect of his narrative.
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Jun 26, 2012 18:58
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Feranon posted:While I don't really want Jane to die for good, I really do wish her and Jake didn't have the whole Egbertian "do the dumbest thing possible when advised not to repeatedly by characters who aren't stone cold retarded" deal going on. It's the main reason John became my least favorite B1 kid, and as dirty as I feel for kinda-sorta agreeing with uu, I'd like to see their death/KO-ing force some sense into them at least. At least Jane was looking for her dad. Jake was just "ADVENTURE!!!" 
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Jun 26, 2012 19:00
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One small thing I'm looking forward to is what the other A6 Acts will be named once they show up on the Map. :3
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Jun 26, 2012 19:05
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Saradiart posted:e: ^^^^ Dude, we get it. You really like Homestuck. Hussie does not need you to rush to his side to defend every aspect of his narrative. I hated what Lost became, but I also hated the endless droves of people calling for Kate's death just because she gave the castaways guns or whatever the gently caress everyone was raging about that week. Edit: the post below this one is a perfect example of valid criticism that I agree with. Plom Bar fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 19:12
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Plom Bar posted:Fact: stories in which the characters always do the most intelligent thing in any given situation and the heroes' plans go off without a hitch are The Most Interesting Stories In The World. Homestuck takes "poo poo going all wrong" up to eleven though. Just because they're teenagers doesn't mean they need to be blistering imbeciles all the time. Especially when you have the Strider/Lalonde kids being fairly competent and getting stuff done without being told and the others mostly going "what time is it ADVENTURE TIME HURRRR." That gets boring and predictable about as fast as everything always going according to plan. And it's a shame because the J-kids can all be funny/charming without the arbitrary stupidity.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:13
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You know, we haven't seen much of what uu looks like yet but from what we can see of his clothing, his dress sense is eerily familiar.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:19
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Pretty much. I am immensely biased towards certain characters, so really, all the death and violence was the most minor part of the update for me.  Gaze upon this, and consider the increasing likelihood that Lord English is a really, really lovely artist. (I'm also seeing a lot of parallels between Calliope and Scratch aside from the choice in weapons, but I figure I'd better not overdo it with the fangirling.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:23
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Rooreelooo posted:You know, we haven't seen much of what uu looks like yet but from what we can see of his clothing, his dress sense is eerily familiar.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:23
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Seoinin posted:Much like Tavros' socks and sandals ensemble out him as King Dork of Greater Dweebulonia, a bowtie is just indicative of someone being terrible. See: Tucker Carlson, Henry Kissinger. Counterpoint: the Doctor. 
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Jun 26, 2012 19:30
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People don't like Jake? Next you'll be telling me people don't like Cool Orange Strider.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:31
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It really looks like Jake broke his spine. Maybe that's a thing that just happens to Pages. Blank page, book spine, who knows.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:36
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The Wall posted:People don't like Jake? Next you'll be telling me people don't like Cool Orange Strider. 
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Jun 26, 2012 19:41
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My teeth theory is much better now; uu has six teeth between his large ones on top! UU has four! Lord English has five! Either there's a third hidden LE personality, or LE is made when the personalities of uu and UU reconcile and become one.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:47
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I really like Jane's potential, because I was a fan of John. Somehow Jake's idiot idea are less endearing than John's, but I haven't re-read much of the earlier stuff so I have no idea. I really disliked Jade for a lot of the first parts, but I didn't wish she wasn't a part of the story. I really can't stand Dirk/AR, I find them pretty much insufferable. AR moreso, Dirk at least has had some time to mature, I guess? Though I think all the post-Cascade characters have a tough bunch to follow, they're going to be judged more harshly due to when they're introduced. Also: WOAH to the update. Can't really say much else about it, I'm really bad at making predictions aside from really off the wall/stupid ones.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:49
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Jon Joe posted:or LE is made when the personalities of uu and UU reconcile and become one. I would think they would be too iRRECONCILA8LE!!!!!!!!
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Jun 26, 2012 19:49
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Saradiart posted:It really looks like Jake broke his spine. Maybe that's a thing that just happens to Pages. Blank page, book spine, who knows. hah oh man, if jake had to go everywhere in a wheelchair that would be the best plot twist. at least he has dirk to build him some sweet robot legs. or maybe only one of his legs will be broken, and he'll need a peg leg to replace it. A golden peg leg with cueball-flashing colours around the rim. Jon Joe posted:My teeth theory is much better now; uu has six teeth between his large ones on top! UU has four! Lord English has five! Either there's a third hidden LE personality, or LE is made when the personalities of uu and UU reconcile and become one. My theory about this is that, if uu and UU are playing sburb, then it follows that they are ectobiological clones (because all players of sburb are.) if they're clones, they who are they clones of? There must be an adult cherub running around somewhere to be their relative. they did mention that cherub ancestors precede their young by millions of years. Basically, I think that uu and UU are the ectobiological children of lord english and some other cherub - probably called Lady Irish or something. uu and lord english are technically the same person, but in the same way that b1 dirk and b2 dirk are technically the same person, or that karkat and the sufferer are technically the same person. The logical conslusion of this theory is that, since uu and UU share a body, lord english probably also shares a body with another cherub, or rather he did at one point.
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Jun 26, 2012 19:55
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Feranon posted:Homestuck takes "poo poo going all wrong" up to eleven though. Just because they're teenagers doesn't mean they need to be blistering imbeciles all the time. Especially when you have the Strider/Lalonde kids being fairly competent and getting stuff done without being told and the others mostly going "what time is it ADVENTURE TIME HURRRR." I think it's mostly because they act stupid inspite of Others telling them not to. It's a bit more irritating when they don't just do something silly in your mind, but when someone in story is telling them 'no that's dumb, don't do that' and they do it anyway.. well, in slasher flicks I tend to say that the characters who do that deserve getting stabbed by the serial killer. I really like Jake and Jane though so I hope they don't bite it off so soon  Edit: Rooreelooo posted:The logical conslusion of this theory is that, since uu and UU share a body, lord english probably also shares a body with another cherub, or rather he did at one point. Maybe he still does, but he's hidden her name awayso she can't be woken up again. Also I don't think it's a coincidence that scratch was made from lil' Cal and the Cue Ball and had space powers. Ron Paul Atreides fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 20:09
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Myrdhale posted:Also I don't think it's a coincidence that scratch was made from lil' Cal and the Cue Ball and had space powers. First Guardian powers. Now, maybe there's an argument to be made that there's some connection between the two kinds of powers, but it's far from a given.
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Jun 26, 2012 20:30
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Alright, uu is starting to turn out to be a really creepy little fuckstick.
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Jun 26, 2012 20:40
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Completely aside: I was just reading an article regarding the Wow! signal and noticed something. The burst of high signal-to-noise ratio was represented on paper as 6EQUJ5, which almost looks like Equis... or maybe Equius.  And get this. The location in the sky that they deduced the burst of noise came from? The constellation Sagittarius.  Equius is trying to make first contact.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:04
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Lord of Laughton posted:Completely aside: I was just reading an article regarding the Wow! signal and noticed something. If it turns out first contact is manhorse pornography I'm quitting.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:14
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Ze Pollack posted:If it turns out first contact is manhorse pornography I'm quitting. Homestuck or life?
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Jun 26, 2012 21:19
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If Calliope's box contains the bunny I really hope that means we get to see the bunny personally delivered to the director of Con Air by someone. That should be how the story ends.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:25
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Plom Bar posted:Fact: stories in which the characters always do the most intelligent thing in any given situation Quite frankly? Yes, they are. Stories are unequivocally better when characters fail due to an external force and/or they are simply outsmarted, as opposed to characters failing due to their own idiocy, especially when it's done repeatedly and in spite of other characters or basic loving common loving sense telling them not to do the dumb things. Because then your characters become Stupidity Plot Devices, aka annoying John or annoying female John. Really, name a distinguishing characteristic of Jane or Jake beyond "is dumb". And I don't even get why your panties are all in a twist, annoying John and annoying female John are coming back and you know it but you're acting all butthurt that someone doesn't like the terribleness that is how they're written this act. Like, really, you honestly think Huss is gonna kill them off? No. No he loving isn't, because we really need another 5,000 loving pages about annoying female John having a crush on annoying John but doing nothing about it. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 21:29
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Lord of Laughton posted:Completely aside: I was just reading an article regarding the Wow! signal and noticed something. Equius is real. All my dreams are finally coming true.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:30
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Myrdhale posted:I think it's mostly because they act stupid inspite of Others telling them not to. It's a bit more irritating when they don't just do something silly in your mind, but when someone in story is telling them 'no that's dumb, don't do that' and they do it anyway.. I think that I can understand thinking Jake was really stupid for going through to Derse, but I can't say I'd blame Jane for ignoring the auto-responder and going off to look for her dad? I mean, hell, I'd have told that smarmy computer to shut it and gone for it if I were her. Jake had better things to be doing, but we already know he's not the brightest candle on the menorah.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:32
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Occupation posted:Really, name a distinguishing characteristic of Jane or Jake beyond "is dumb". Jane: Inquisitive, old-fashioned, home-body, bad at relationships, too accommodating, skeptical. Jake: Impulsive, anachronistic, socially awkward, unexpectedly perceptive, probably a horrible closet Avatar otherkin. Not hard! Edit: Also, butthurt is a really dumb and vaguely homophobic piece of linguistic poo poo. Just getting that out there.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:37
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Occupation posted:Quite frankly? Yes, they are. Stories are unequivocally better when characters fail due to an external force and/or they are simply outsmarted, as opposed to characters failing due to their own idiocy, especially when it's done repeatedly and in spite of other characters or basic loving common loving sense telling them not to do the dumb things. So, tragedies like Hamlet are worse because the conflict is extended by the character's flaws? Not to say Homestuck is anywhere near the quality of Shakespeare, but I hope you see my point.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:38
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Occupation posted:as opposed to characters failing due to their own idiocy, especially when it's done repeatedly and in spite of other characters or basic loving common loving sense telling them not to do the dumb things Have you ever heard of a "tragic flaw"? It's like this, only admittedly less irritating. Is a hero constantly affected a tragic flaw that is their own fault bad story-telling? EDIT: ^ or that. EDIT 2: I'm not saying they're heroes from an epic or something, I'm just trying to put some perspective Color Printer fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 21:41
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Color Printer posted:Have you ever heard of a "tragic flaw"? It's like this, only admittedly less irritating. Is a hero constantly affected a tragic flaw that is their own fault bad story-telling? In both your and glitchwraith's cases that's a clear limitation of their characters. That's the point, they're each acting to the best of their abilities within the context of their disability or flaw. Jake and Jane are just loving stupid. They're big stupid dumb morons, and annoying besides. That isn't a tragic flaw, unless their tragic flaw is "be a big stupid dumb moron at all times".
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Jun 26, 2012 21:46
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Without weighing in on the issue, might I suggest, Occupation, that you chill out a little bit?
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Jun 26, 2012 21:49
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What are you even on about regarding Jane? Jake, sure, he's thick. What has Jane done? Awkwardly gently caress up her first attempt at telling a boy she likes him? Boy, that sure is an incredibly stupid and out of character thing for a teenage girl to do.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:50
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But she stepped on a strange pad! Even after the talking sunglasses told her not to without explaining why! I mean, how dumb can you get?
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Jun 26, 2012 21:52
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I will grant that Jake was a complete dumbass for stepping on a pad he found in a deep pit in a temple on an island (even if it's one he's lived on his whole life). For no reason other than "gently caress you shades time for adventure whooooo". That is pretty dumb. Does it mean he's a bad character? No, unless maybe he kept doing that. That's the thing; their stupidity has only been a major factor in...pretty much this and nothing else (and beating up Fish Hitler and loving up relationships but I don't think that matters?) EDIT: v Oh, right there's that. Color Printer fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 21:56
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pumpinglemma posted:But she stepped on a strange pad! Even after the talking sunglasses told her not to without explaining why! I mean, how dumb can you get? She also went outside and almost got killed by a boobytrap despite Dad's warning that she can't leave the house because she will be killed by assassins, and ran Roxy's compuner-exploding virus even after explicitly being told not to. She really is pretty terrible at heeding well-meaning advice.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:58
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Gabriel Pope posted:She also went outside and almost got killed by a boobytrap despite Dad's warning that she can't leave the house because she will be killed by assassins, and ran Roxy's compuner-exploding virus even after explicitly being told not to. She really is pretty terrible at heeding well-meaning advice. Now to be fair, what teen is good at heeding advice period?
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Jun 26, 2012 22:01
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Occupation posted:Jake and Jane are just loving stupid. They're big stupid dumb morons, and annoying besides. That isn't a tragic flaw, unless their tragic flaw is "be a big stupid dumb moron at all times". I mean, I don't really particularly have a strong opinion on these characters yet, but if you make sure to oversimplify character traits as much as possible, then yeah, every single tragic flaw every character has ever had in the history of storytelling is "be a big stupid dumb moron at all times." Like Vriska, to use an example I'm 100% sure everyone in this thread is familiar with. Remember when she challenged Jack even though she had no chance of winning and thereby doomed everyone else? What a big stupid dumb moron. Or like the time Equius just stood there and let Gamzee kill him like a big stupid dumb moron. I wouldn't have done that. I'd have punched Gamzee in the face. Because I'm not a big stupid dumb moron. MAN, these characters are all unlikeable as hell.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:02
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You also have to keep in mind that these are KIDS we're talking about here. 16-year-olds do stupid poo poo against the better judgement of themselves and their superiors all the loving time, often with little rationale beyond "you think I should, therefore I won't". At least Jane (who's looking for her father) and Jake (who's eager to prove his worth to Dirk and himself) have somewhat reasonable motivation for their idiocy. And besides, Dirk and Roxy are hardly blameless on the "conducting self like a moron" front. Roxy drinks like a fish in spite of being under constant threat of drones, cannibalistic carapacians, and looming starvation, which is grossly irresponsible and should rightly have spelled her demise a dozen times over. Dirk, while capable, believes himself to be the only capable one, biting off far more than he can chew in his attempts to herd the others and orchestrate their actions, without investing much trust in their agency. He believes he knows what's best for everyone, and perhaps rightly so, but he doesn't bother to explain himself to the others and that's what has lead the situation to fall out of his control. But the crazy thing is I still don't hate any of them and I think it's kind of hosed up to wish that any if them die, stay dead, or what have you.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:03
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It's a web comic. Hating a character and wishing they'd disappear doesn't make you a crazy sociopath, and I just went with "die" because that seems to be the only way for a homestuck character to stay gone, and not even then. I don't care if she gets cast into the nega zone or he quits to run for the House of Representatives in California or they're both treated as having never existed in the first place in Act 7, I simply do not want to read about them, their uninteresting lives, their super uninteresting romantic entanglements, or she being a spineless twit or he being the most oblivious fool ever any more. That's it. And since it seems like the only way that's possible is for them to die and stay dead, I wish for them to die. Because quite frankly, they're the worst parts of this act and single-handedly made it impossible to read or enjoy, and I'd enjoy enjoying homestuck again as opposed to now, where it's basically a chore I've invested two years of my life in. Although Calliope is swinging it around to "likeable" again, so who knows. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 22:10
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