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PoopShipDestroyer
Jan 13, 2006

I think he's ready for a chair

wattershed posted:

Yesterday I took a sip straight from one of my taps.

Just because I could.

America.

:911:

Anyone have any heat shield tips? I'm thinking I'll just go buy a piece of metal duct stuff that's about the right shape and hope for the best.

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wattershed
Dec 27, 2002

Radio got his free iPod, did you get yours???

RiggenBlaque posted:

:911:

Anyone have any heat shield tips? I'm thinking I'll just go buy a piece of metal duct stuff that's about the right shape and hope for the best.

Talking about a way to block wind from your banjo cooker's flame?

Allow me to quote myself from February:

I posted:

Went to Home Depot today, xmas gift card in hand. Headed to the 'ducting' aisle and just kinda poked around looking for something that could get me 40" in diameter of metal circular protection. Found two of something like these, which snap together. This was the end result:



Snapped the pieces together to make one long piece, wrapped it around the Bayou Classic KAB6, snapped them together to keep it snug around the burner, then drilled that hole in it to stick the match/lighter through as well as give me a sight to the flame without moving the pot. I only measured out the diameter before I went to Home Depot, didn't think about the height I'd need, but it turns out that this is basically a perfect fit. It's a little hard to see, but on the right side of the photo you can see the cover to the propane valve, and you can see how the ducting comes down almost right on top of it. There's a few screws around the side of the KAB6, and the ducting more or less sits on them, so even if I hadn't belted it tightly around the cooker it would still sit on the screws/valve cover. Totally awesome modification that I'm pretty sure everyone would benefit from.

PoopShipDestroyer
Jan 13, 2006

I think he's ready for a chair

wattershed posted:

Talking about a way to block wind from your banjo cooker's flame?

Allow me to quote myself from February:

This is the exact post I've been looking for, but couldn't remember where I saw it. Thanks a lot! I have a KAB4 but it looks like they are pretty much the same

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007





You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line
Alright, this might be a long-shot, but anyone know the legality of carrying sealed hop pellets across the US-Canada border? I'm ordering some stuff from Austin Homebrew Supply, and while shipping to Canada is horrendous, I can ship it to Point Roberts WA, which is just a quick trip over the border, and pick it up from there for a $3 charge.

I'll be declaring whatever I buy (as usually they don't care on packages), but I want to know it won't just get seized at the border.

E: checking the Automated Import Reference System gives me 2 different answers... if it's an 'vegetable saps or extracts of: hops', intended for human consumption (which includes using it as an additive), then it's allowed in. If it's a rooted or unrooted Humulus (which includes cuttings, flowers, etc.) then it's refused entry.

JawKnee fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jul 4, 2012

Daedalus Esquire
Mar 30, 2008
I'm not basing this on any sort of law knowledge or prior experience, but I don't see why they would seize them. It's just a plant, and not illegal (afaik with regards to Canada) so why would they take it?

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Daedalus Esquire posted:

I'm not basing this on any sort of law knowledge or prior experience, but I don't see why they would seize them. It's just a plant, and not illegal (afaik with regards to Canada) so why would they take it?
There's some bullshit around agricultural products but I think its limited to specific stuff that can carry illnesses.

I don't know specifically whats covered for what jurisdiction (for example you can't actually bring out of state produce into California in a car, let alone whats covered under international produce carrying) but I don't think a border cop would even recognize hops as anything if nothing else.

Some advocacy sight should have a plain text summary if no one else has a specific answer for JawKnee.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.
Tell them its organic rabbit food.

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007





You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

Angry Grimace posted:

Tell them its organic rabbit food.

E: Correction, conveniently packaged in 16 1 ounce air-tight packs :v:

RocketMermaid
Mar 30, 2004

My pronouns are She/Heir.


I'm finally getting back into the habit as of now. :D Brewing a testbed for a Goose Island innovation beer either tonight or tomorrow morning, and after that I'm brewing an imperial IPA with ancho chiles.

Speaking of which, what would be the best method for adding dried chiles to a beer? I'm inclined to chop them up and add them to the secondary with the dry hops, sans the seeds. A vodka infusion would work too, I'm sure, but this would be a bit more convenient.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
My friend has brewed a fair share of chile beers with direct addition to the boil and secondary and I'm not sure why direct addition would be any more convenient. The sticking point has always been too vegetal or too chemically hot or both. Both of which can be controlled by a tincture.

Porterhaus
Jun 6, 2006

Zero to Gyro
Just a heads up that Northern Brewer is offering a $25 gift card with any purchase over $100 until midnight central time tonight. No coupon code, just add the $25 gift card to your cart once you have more than $100 worth of stuff in it.

Thoughts on their Deluxe Brewing Starter Kit (Glass)? I've been lurking for awhile and this might be too good of a deal to pass up.

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!
In general, the NB starter kits are very, very good. They have a lot of great items in them (star-san, auto-siphon) that make brewing easier and better, and they dispense with some bullshit things that are in some other suppliers' kits. You will not go wrong with that kit.

But you can get by with less kit if you want to. The basic kit has all the good bits and you can certainly make excellent beer with it. You'll have to add an ingredient kit or two to get above the magic $100 line, but you were going to do that anyway.

If it were me and I had settled on the deluxe kit, I would also go with plastic fermenters rather than glass, as breaking glass is a whole lot of no fun; plastic is lighter and more durable.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.

Jo3sh posted:

In general, the NB starter kits are very, very good. They have a lot of great items in them (star-san, auto-siphon) that make brewing easier and better, and they dispense with some bullshit things that are in some other suppliers' kits. You will not go wrong with that kit.

But you can get by with less kit if you want to. The basic kit has all the good bits and you can certainly make excellent beer with it. You'll have to add an ingredient kit or two to get above the magic $100 line, but you were going to do that anyway.

If it were me and I had settled on the deluxe kit, I would also go with plastic fermenters rather than glass, as breaking glass is a whole lot of no fun; plastic is lighter and more durable.

The first thing I did when I got my kit was drop the carboy on the floor. It was full of water too, but it didn't break. (In some places we call that "learning.") Just be super careful with glass carboys. I now use nylon straps which let me carry the carboy without fear of dropping it.

The only thing I don't like about the NB starter kits is that the order page implies you should get one of the ingredient kits on that page (as though they are easier or something), when in reality you can make any of the recipes they have on the site.

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

Angry Grimace posted:

you can make any of the recipes they have on the site.

... and they have a shitload of good kits available, too. Seriously, look through the extract ale kits section and I will be very very surprised if you don't find something that makes your mouth water. I agree with Angry - don't let yourself be limited; if one of the default choices works for you, that's great, but you can make anything you want. That's why we are homebrewers.

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007





You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line
I'm about to go pick up some iodophor from the drug store for a spray-bottle sanitizer - is a betadine at 7% good enough? And what should my sanitizer to water ratio be?

E: I found a few sites that suggest 1/2 an oz of 10% solution per 5 gallons (about 1/10 oz per gallon) so I can extrapolate from there.

Here's the links if anyone else is interested:

http://www.bayareamashers.org/content/maindocs/iodophor.htm

and

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5878

JawKnee fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Jul 5, 2012

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.
Question: If I'm going to rack a wheat beer on top of a fruit puree, how long should I leave it there before carbing it up and getting it ready to drink? I'm assuming it will ferment out a bit, but do I just move it after that?

JawKnee posted:

I'm about to go pick up some iodophor from the drug store for a spray-bottle sanitizer - is a betadine at 7% good enough? And what should my sanitizer to water ratio be?
I've heard of people doing this before, but I'm way too paranoid to go cheap on my sanitizers that actually touch the beer.

Edit: I'm fairly certain Betadine, etc. are generic iodophors that can work just as well as the stuff they sell you at the brew shop, but iodophors seem to not be in vogue vs. star-san so I couldn't find much information on the correct ratios that would be safe. I guess I'm just paranoid because iodine is definitely toxic if you overdo it.

Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jul 5, 2012

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007





You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

Angry Grimace posted:

I've heard of people doing this before, but I'm way too paranoid to go cheap on my sanitizers that actually touch the beer.

This will be for sanitizing instruments (ie: spoon, thermometer, hydrometer) rather than my fermenters or brew kettle.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.
I poured my apricot puree into my secondary and racked my wheat on top of it, but I totally forgot to sanitize the can, the can opener or the siphon. :v: I racked a little extra yeast off the bottom in the hopes it will eat anything bad. :v: :v:

Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Jul 5, 2012

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Tenderloin posted:

Thoughts on their Deluxe Brewing Starter Kit (Glass)? I've been lurking for awhile and this might be too good of a deal to pass up.

I bought their deluxe starter kit and have been really happy. I haven't NEEDED to buy any other hardware besides a kettle and procuring bottles. Nothing feels like it was "cheaped out" on or put in just to entice you to buy a higher end version.



On another note, my sweet stout from NB is STILL throwing the odd bubble through the airlock every minute or two and it's been in the fermenter for about 10 days. I am not necessarily worried, but is it normal to have a fermentation cook for this long? The other two batches were both basically done in 3-4 days and after that, I noticed no activity.

internet celebrity
Jun 23, 2006

College Slice
Anyone ever use Apollo hops late in the boil in an IIPA? I picked up a bunch from the NB hop sale since they're stupid high alpha and great for bittering. I'm reading a lot of conflicting things on their flavor/aroma. Some people say passion fruit and tangerine, some people say cat pee and old lady perfume. Anyone use them as a flavor/aroma hop before?

crazyfish
Sep 19, 2002

AlternateAccount posted:

On another note, my sweet stout from NB is STILL throwing the odd bubble through the airlock every minute or two and it's been in the fermenter for about 10 days. I am not necessarily worried, but is it normal to have a fermentation cook for this long? The other two batches were both basically done in 3-4 days and after that, I noticed no activity.

My witbiers with Wyeast 3744 bubbled for almost two weeks. I wouldn't worry unless you see a pellicle start to form or the taste is off.

nesbit37
Dec 12, 2003
Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)
For those of you that have used both, is it worth buying BeerSmith 2.1 if you already have a license for 1.4?

Daedalus Esquire
Mar 30, 2008
I can't really remember using the first version, but I remover being fairly impressed when I switched. I have very few if any complaints about beer smith 2.

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!
We were without power from Friday to yesterday (off the beaten path power grid on an estuary south of DC, knocked out by a monster thunderstorm last Friday), and running our fridges every couple hours on a generator. It was too small to run all the time or run both fridges and the chest freezer at the same time, so we had to just tape 'em all shut and follow a schedule so no one got too warm. It's been a rough week, temps over 100 and humidity high enough to cut with a knife in the swamp that is northern VA. Sleeping in the basement gets old fast.

Anyway, I had 5 smack packs in one of the fridges: a 3725 (Bier De Garde), a 1056 (American Ale) and 3x 4184s (Sweet Mead). When the power came back, we opened the fridge to find out the American Ale was all swelled up despite the nutrient pack being unbroken; I couldn't tell you why that pack went apeshit but it was a sign.

So I spent my 4th of July bottling ~4.8 gallons of stout and brewing my first two all-grains with the help of my fresh-built Rubbermaid mash tun (a circle of braided steel hose on a T fitting for a manifold turns out to work much better than it looks like it should). Got a cream ale and a bier de table rolling away in the basement and I'm hell of jazzed about getting so much done in one day. :cheers:

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.

Daedalus Esquire posted:

I can't really remember using the first version, but I remover being fairly impressed when I switched. I have very few if any complaints about beer smith 2.
I barely know how to use BeerSmith at all. Some of my recipes have weird ingredients like Golden Naked Oats but I'm not sure how you get those in there when the default grains option doesn't include them. There's a TON of features in there, none of which I know how to use.

wattershed
Dec 27, 2002

Radio got his free iPod, did you get yours???

Angry Grimace posted:

I barely know how to use BeerSmith at all. Some of my recipes have weird ingredients like Golden Naked Oats but I'm not sure how you get those in there when the default grains option doesn't include them. There's a TON of features in there, none of which I know how to use.

I can only seem to modify existing options for grains/hops/etc, so I've been editing the ones I can't imagine ever using or just trying to remember when I've changed the properties of a common item. It's frustrating that I can't add my own adjunct items, especially if they affect the flavor profile.

The interface is kinda terrible, to be honest. I'm always annoyed when there's 4 different buttons to do the same thing. Not surprisingly, you see that sort of thing commonly in homegrown apps where there's no QA or UX work done to keep the users from punting their PCs into the wall.

The actual recipe builder on hopville kills BeerSmith's, but there's a lot more in the way of fermentation, rest steps, shopping lists, and inventory lists which keep me going back to BeerSmith. I've taken to building recipes in hopville, using that as a source to input into BeerSmith, then utilizing the rest of BeerSmith's features from there.

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

wattershed posted:

The interface is kinda terrible, to be honest.

I agree. More than anything else, this is what keeps me from using BeerSmith. Hopville meets my needs and has the bonus of being able to share the recipe online (although isn't there a BeerSmith feature for that in v.2?).

To me, BeerSmith reeks of a small shop or even a one-person effort. The author(s) is/are so familiar with how it all works that it all seems like second nature to them; so much so that they can't even form the thought that the UI is confusing or that the product as a whole is hard to use.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.

Jo3sh posted:

I agree. More than anything else, this is what keeps me from using BeerSmith. Hopville meets my needs and has the bonus of being able to share the recipe online (although isn't there a BeerSmith feature for that in v.2?).

To me, BeerSmith reeks of a small shop or even a one-person effort. The author(s) is/are so familiar with how it all works that it all seems like second nature to them; so much so that they can't even form the thought that the UI is confusing or that the product as a whole is hard to use.

The most basic example of this is when you first turn it on and try to find out how to add a recipe. It took me like 10 minutes and I'm not a computer newbie, but I'm not a programmer or anything. The only reason I even bought it was that I rather liked the style guideline sliders to know when my recipe is too bitter for style, etc. and the fact that it gives me very accurate water calculations.

crazyfish
Sep 19, 2002

Jo3sh posted:

I agree. More than anything else, this is what keeps me from using BeerSmith. Hopville meets my needs and has the bonus of being able to share the recipe online (although isn't there a BeerSmith feature for that in v.2?).

To me, BeerSmith reeks of a small shop or even a one-person effort. The author(s) is/are so familiar with how it all works that it all seems like second nature to them; so much so that they can't even form the thought that the UI is confusing or that the product as a whole is hard to use.

I started out using BeerSmith, but the interface is just so awful that I just switched to Hopville and things are a lot better. Granted, BeerSmith is ludicrously powerful, but I don't need 99% of what it offers.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef
I need a lot of what Beersmith offers just because I'm too lazy to do mashing mathematics (especially when I do multiple rests or decoctions) and the horrible municipal water I get I r.o. filter and then get back up to spec with salt additions, which Beersmith also calculates for me.

I've only used V2, I agree the UI is pretty terrible, but it only took me a little while to get used to it, adding ingredients, mashing schedules, water profiles, and equipment profiles isn't too painful.

The real issues I've had with beersmith is if it unexpectedly closes all unsaved recipes are hosed. Also, it has recently started spouting out weird numbers for efficiency and IBUs, but as with its temp suggestions I've just learned in which direction I need to fudge things to be right for my setup.

I feel I've gotten my money's worth already, even if I've also had my fair share of frustrations using it.

Midorka
Jun 10, 2011

I have a pretty fucking good palate, passed BJCP and level 2 cicerone which is more than half of you dudes can say, so I don't give a hoot anymore about this toxic community.
Does anyone have a good link for how to create a mash tun from a cooler?

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Jo3sh posted:

I agree. More than anything else, this is what keeps me from using BeerSmith. Hopville meets my needs and has the bonus of being able to share the recipe online (although isn't there a BeerSmith feature for that in v.2?).

To me, BeerSmith reeks of a small shop or even a one-person effort. The author(s) is/are so familiar with how it all works that it all seems like second nature to them; so much so that they can't even form the thought that the UI is confusing or that the product as a whole is hard to use.

Your suspicions are correct, it's literally one dude (Brad Smith). And I agree, it does totally feel like he just does what makes sense to him without really reading up on modern UI design principles or soliciting feedback from users. I will say he's super receptive to suggestions and bug reports, though. I've posted several on his forum and he's implemented them all. If you have something more specific than "this sux lol", write it up and he'll probably look at it.

The recent v2.1 update added a recipe sharing website that you can export your recipes to. You get something like 10 for free and can buy more space for a nominal fee.

One suggestion: check the website and make sure you are running the latest version. The first few 2.0 builds had a retarded bug where the Check for Updates feature didn't work, so I was running an ancient super-buggy version for like 9 months til I realized that. The UI is still goofy but it's better than it was.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.

Midorka posted:

Does anyone have a good link for how to create a mash tun from a cooler?

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Converting_a_cooler_to_a_mash_tun

Walmart is selling rectangular 48 qt. Marine coolers for 27 dollars right now. I honestly do not recommend trying to go to Home Depot to find all the parts unless you hate yourself. Just buy a cooler conversion kit from any LHBS or brewing supply shop. It's worth paying ~$10 extra bucks to not wander around Home Depot for 90 minutes looking for the exact fit part.

//

In other news, that Citra Pale Ale I made has really come into its own. It had a very fruity character until it sat cold in the kegs for 2+ weeks. I can only imagine that is just a strong hop flavor that fades out over time because it's pretty delicious right now; the fruity/tropical flavor is still there but it's now just a hint of that flavor as opposed to just screaming FRUIIIIIIIIIIIT when you take a sip.

Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jul 6, 2012

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007





You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line
Brew time. This is my first attempt at an extract boil; my little stove is struggling to boil 14 L (which will be my wort boil volume in a couple hours) for my 11.5 L of boiled water going first into the primary.

Wish me luck, this is so damned exciting - I'm happy watching water boil!

Midorka
Jun 10, 2011

I have a pretty fucking good palate, passed BJCP and level 2 cicerone which is more than half of you dudes can say, so I don't give a hoot anymore about this toxic community.

Angry Grimace posted:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Converting_a_cooler_to_a_mash_tun

Walmart is selling rectangular 48 qt. Marine coolers for 27 dollars right now.

Thanks, is it necessary to have a cooler that has a drain plug?

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.

Midorka posted:

Thanks, is it necessary to have a cooler that has a drain plug?

If it doesn't have a drain plug you will have to drill one; otherwise there's no way to lauter (meaning, drain the sweet wort and leave the spent grain behind). You will use a stainless steel washer hose plus some worm clamps and/or a copper manifold (as shown on that link) to do that. I'm lazy and use a "bazooka screen" type unit which just screws into the valve manifold.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Igloo-Marine-48-Quart-Cooler/16437964 has a drain plug and is 27 bucks.

Midorka
Jun 10, 2011

I have a pretty fucking good palate, passed BJCP and level 2 cicerone which is more than half of you dudes can say, so I don't give a hoot anymore about this toxic community.
Thanks, I only asked because I already have a decent sized cooler, but that one I may pick up for the future. I'm only doing 2.5 gallon batches now so 48 quarts is overkill.

crazyfish
Sep 19, 2002

Angry Grimace posted:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Converting_a_cooler_to_a_mash_tun

Walmart is selling rectangular 48 qt. Marine coolers for 27 dollars right now. I honestly do not recommend trying to go to Home Depot to find all the parts unless you hate yourself. Just buy a cooler conversion kit from any LHBS or brewing supply shop. It's worth paying ~$10 extra bucks to not wander around Home Depot for 90 minutes looking for the exact fit part.


Do this. I spent way too goddamn much on trying to find parts for the cooler that actually sealed worth a drat. My cooler seals now, but in retrospect I spent more on parts than the kit cost me.

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

Docjowles posted:

Your suspicions are correct, it's literally one dude (Brad Smith). And I agree, it does totally feel like he just does what makes sense to him without really reading up on modern UI design principles or soliciting feedback from users. I will say he's super receptive to suggestions and bug reports, though. I've posted several on his forum and he's implemented them all. If you have something more specific than "this sux lol", write it up and he'll probably look at it.

I don't mean to slam it too harshly, it's a heck of a product for what it is, but I don't really have concrete suggestions like put this button there, eliminate this, add that. But yeah, he needs to read up on UI design for version 3.

And honestly, I am happy with Hopville for the moment (but that reminds me that I need to go look at Hopville v.2 also, since that was supposed to get rolled out over the holiday).

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wattershed
Dec 27, 2002

Radio got his free iPod, did you get yours???

Jo3sh posted:

I don't mean to slam it too harshly, it's a heck of a product for what it is, but I don't really have concrete suggestions like put this button there, eliminate this, add that. But yeah, he needs to read up on UI design for version 3.

And honestly, I am happy with Hopville for the moment (but that reminds me that I need to go look at Hopville v.2 also, since that was supposed to get rolled out over the holiday).

I can completely deal with the overkill of having three different icons which lead me to the same place if it also means including the minutiae that precise brewers want. I'll take that trade-off any day. Hell, let me add my own ingredients from scratch and input their values, then let me export a recipe or shopping list to a text or doc file. I'd pay another $5 just for that.

As for hopville, it looks like it's not live on the newest version right now, but this...er, yesterday...afternoon, it was up and running in a limited form. I could access my recipes, but didn't have a way to edit them. It looked slick, but if it's going to be all ajax'd out and take 5 seconds to react to changes I'll stick with my offline software.

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