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wodin
Jul 12, 2001

What do you do with a drunken Viking?

Resource posted:

There should be a "game developers get healthy and not fat" motivation help thing, Each crunch I think my baseline fatness increases.

Crunch is a +1 lb/week for me, charted and graphed over 3 different crunches now. It's actually somewhat amusing in an inevitable sort of way. I managed to hold it flat this time around for about a month this time with biking/walking to work and then made up the extra ground later when we hit the 'urgh' moments. I think it's mostly the stress and lack of sleep loving with your metabolic rates - I've tracked calorie intake and it's not appreciably different inside/outside of crunch (though buffet-style crunch dinners definitely do not help).

On a completely unrelated note - do any of you guys find yourselves deconstructing systems related to your area of expertise in other games (complete with spreadsheets and other analysis) and then losing enjoyment when you find something you would have done differently/you think is off?

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Spacedad
Sep 11, 2001

We go play orbital catch around the curvature of the earth, son.
As an animator well versed in flash, I've been looking with idle curiosity into the games industry. I would definitely enjoy working on interesting iPhone games - there's some really amazing animation in some of them too.

I think my ideal games job would be to create art and animation for an interesting indie game. I want to start gathering research - couldn't hurt.

SnafuAl
Oct 20, 2010

VR! VR! VR!
BLOODY VR!


Aliginge posted:

University in the past few years here in the UK has gone from completely and totally free not a long time ago to £1k a year when I first started, then £3k a year, now it's £9k a year. We British are hurtling headlong towards the American student debt situation and it's entirely on purpose.

Maybe for you buggers south of the border, my university education cost me only living expenses for four years. :scotland:

Now if only I could actually put it to use.

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"

Chainclaw posted:

Our studio has a bunch of push-up-clubs and just setup a Fitocracy thing.

Fitocracy; A hierarchy based on how ripped you are. The CEO must be built like a god drat brick shithouse.

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?

wodin posted:

On a completely unrelated note - do any of you guys find yourselves deconstructing systems related to your area of expertise in other games (complete with spreadsheets and other analysis) and then losing enjoyment when you find something you would have done differently/you think is off?
Yes. It has completely destroyed any joy I might get from cinematic FPSes ("look at how framed this is, it channels you to an inevitable cover here, which is then easy to fire from so there's..."), and likewise for survival horror (cheap scares are cheap).

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool

wodin posted:

On a completely unrelated note - do any of you guys find yourselves deconstructing systems related to your area of expertise in other games (complete with spreadsheets and other analysis) and then losing enjoyment when you find something you would have done differently/you think is off?

I have large amounts of trouble playing competitive multiplayer games because I deconstruct them all the time :(

Why can't I just mash buttons and watch pretty colors flyyyyy.

GeeCee
Dec 16, 2004

:scotland::glomp:

"You're going to be...amazing."

Times posted:

As an animator well versed in flash, I've been looking with idle curiosity into the games industry. I would definitely enjoy working on interesting iPhone games - there's some really amazing animation in some of them too.

I think my ideal games job would be to create art and animation for an interesting indie game. I want to start gathering research - couldn't hurt.
Sup, I work for an IOS dev. :)

If you're working in a small studio, you need to be multi-skilled. I do concept art, character creation and 2D animation, create UI elements and recently I've been pushed more towards working with the tech side of the job and managing texture dictionaries and building levels with our in-house level editor, using the same 2D level assets I made in Photoshop at an earlier stage.

In triple-A studios you specialise, as there is someone else on production that'll take your work and do the next part, so you have to become very proficient in one particular job. Say character animation or Environment modelling.

No such luck in smaller studios, just you and one or two other artists who are probably busy being tasked with other projects. You adapt. :v:


Being open to the mobile IOS side of things is a good decision I reckon, with triple-A hitting the wall left right and centre mobile gaming is still doing very very well and with the release of cheaper and cheaper tablets like Google's Nexus 7 means it's still got a fair amount of growth to go yet and that's good news for new people to the industry.

Just whatever you do, don't bother checking mobile game dev sites for job postings as they probably won't bother putting them up on their site :p Just do the usual cover letter + folio app.

GeeCee fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jul 7, 2012

waffledoodle
Oct 1, 2005

I believe your boast sounds vaguely familiar.

wodin posted:

Crunch is a +1 lb/week for me, charted and graphed over 3 different crunches now. It's actually somewhat amusing in an inevitable sort of way. I managed to hold it flat this time around for about a month this time with biking/walking to work and then made up the extra ground later when we hit the 'urgh' moments. I think it's mostly the stress and lack of sleep loving with your metabolic rates - I've tracked calorie intake and it's not appreciably different inside/outside of crunch (though buffet-style crunch dinners definitely do not help).

We've been crunching for the past three weeks trying to hit our closed beta target, and amazingly it hasn't broken my diet (for the first time ever). This time around I've been the guy who always specifies that he wants the healthy/salad option, and I still force myself to hit the gym 4-5 times a week. The only thing that messes me up is when there are ice cream parties in the breakroom :argh:

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf

Shalinor posted:

Yes. It has completely destroyed any joy I might get from cinematic FPSes ("look at how framed this is, it channels you to an inevitable cover here, which is then easy to fire from so there's..."), and likewise for survival horror (cheap scares are cheap).

Sometimes I will be playing a game and then just stop for a second and be in awe of the work that went into it. Some of my most memorable recent ones were just staring at the graphics in some of the scenic places in Skyrim.

And then I find myself getting killed by a dragon, and snapped out of the moment.


Also, less than a month till I start my new job :neckbeard:

concerned mom
Apr 22, 2003

by Lowtax
Grimey Drawer

waffledoodle posted:

Ice cream parties in the breakroom :argh:

Is that a euphemism?

Edit:

VV I've been trying to champion Dressing-Gown Fridays but it hasn't caught on.

floofyscorp
Feb 12, 2007

The problem with working in such a casual environment like this is we can't have sponsored 'dress down' days for charity and the like. When jeans are smart and even shoes are optional, where do you go from there?

We're having a onesie day next Friday in aid of Make-A-Wish. The horror...

(I'm going to donate a fiver and wear my fanciest business attire because gently caress onesies)

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"

Every day is mandatory check shirt day. No exceptions.

Adraeus
Jan 25, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Fishbus posted:

Every day is mandatory check shirt day. No exceptions.
Better than this day every day:

cocoavalley
Dec 28, 2010

Well son, a funny thing about regret is that it's better to regret something you have done than to regret something you haven't done

floofyscorp posted:

The problem with working in such a casual environment like this is we can't have sponsored 'dress down' days for charity and the like. When jeans are smart and even shoes are optional, where do you go from there?

We're having a onesie day next Friday in aid of Make-A-Wish. The horror...

(I'm going to donate a fiver and wear my fanciest business attire because gently caress onesies)

We have 'Fancy/Formal' Fridays. A fair number of people participate too, even in the hot weather we've been having.

I'm also a bit horrified by the idea of a bunch of game devs coming to work in onesies, especially since the first thing I envision is the little shirt with snaps in the crotch that you put on babies.

Resource
Aug 6, 2006
Yay!
The game developer uniform here is game t-shirt, plaid shorts, and flip flops. Everyone, everyday.

Zagrod
Jun 26, 2005

fiyah fiyah fiyah
Clapping Larry
I'm the last holdout in my company still wearing jeans in this weather (32C/90F). Because seriously, gently caress shorts unless I'm on a beach and I'm drinking a drink with a little straw umbrella in it

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"

Adraeus posted:

Better than this day every day:



We're growing quite accustomed to our f2p (free to plaid) model now in the office. :v:

Juc66
Nov 20, 2005
Lord of The Pants
There was a dress code at bioware when I worked there.
THOU SHALT NOT BE NUDE!

I don't work there any more :stare:

It's a holdout from their old offices where the AC didn't work 90% of the time.
I guess when it gets to be 42C in the office, people start doffing clothes.

Akuma
Sep 11, 2001


You sons of bitches, it's rained here every day for the past month. I wish we had shorts weather, goddamn. Worst summer ever. Went to a carnival with Aliginge at the weekend, and by the end of it I was more mud than man.

waffledoodle
Oct 1, 2005

I believe your boast sounds vaguely familiar.

Zagrod posted:

I'm the last holdout in my company still wearing jeans in this weather (32C/90F). Because seriously, gently caress shorts unless I'm on a beach and I'm drinking a drink with a little straw umbrella in it

We've got a new guy that dresses like JP from Grandma's Boy every day. Even over the last few weeks when temperatures were in the 105's.

Sigma-X
Jun 17, 2005

Adraeus posted:

Better than this day every day:



what is wrong with Wifebeater Wednesdays?

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?

waffledoodle posted:

We've got a new guy that dresses like JP from Grandma's Boy every day. Even over the last few weeks when temperatures were in the 105's.


Have you tried to strike up a conversation about robot legs with him?

waffledoodle
Oct 1, 2005

I believe your boast sounds vaguely familiar.
Whenever I try, he blends into the wall and disappears

Magic
May 18, 2004

Your ass is on my platter, snapperhead!
Welp, after being unemployed and job hunting for 7 months, last week I passed on an interview for a QA position with Microsoft (UK) since I've been offered an actual IT job contract closer to home. I had a good think about it but I just didn't want to go back into the industry. Aside from moving across the country and going back to the bottom rung of the development ladder, it's also due to seeing (and experiencing) some stories of horrible treatment. I know you can get that anywhere but the games industry seems to have it more than elsewhere - it's still growing up. I feel like I've been there, done that and at the age of 28 it's like I should be doing something more than chasing childhood dreams.

Not to be all :smith: though... it's just time to move on.

Pros:
- Set work hours of 9 to 5, no overtime.
- (Arguably) better career prospects.
- The IT industry and services are more stable.

Cons:
- Good (ironed) shirt and trousers from now on. I hate ironing.
- Not everyone around me will be a gamer.
- Mundane work.

Games development for me from now on will virtually be a hobby, with work on Unity 3D and game design work in my spare time. I think that's a good compromise at least.

wodin posted:

On a completely unrelated note - do any of you guys find yourselves deconstructing systems related to your area of expertise in other games (complete with spreadsheets and other analysis) and then losing enjoyment when you find something you would have done differently/you think is off?
At the studio I worked at the team would analyse the latest games that were put on the retail consoles. It wasn't to a microscopic level but it was usually unfair bitching with bias, though that's to be expected with rival developers.

After working in QA I certainly found myself struggling to 'switch off' and ignore bugs. On the flipside, I appreciated that just because bugs were present or certain, obviously cool features weren't implemented then it doesn't mean the devs didn't consider them; I know that schedules have to be maintained instead and there's not time to do everything.

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?

Magic posted:

Cons:
- Good (ironed) shirt and trousers from now on. I hate ironing.
This would kill me, if I ever had to leave the industry. Having to wear slacks or a skirt again? And a blouse? Ouch.

... that said, my last non-games job had our team lead wandering around in ratty shorts and flip flops all the time, so hopefully I could still find a programming job with casual dress. Surely that didn't all die with dotcom?

Freelancepolice
Apr 8, 2008

Magic posted:

Welp, after being unemployed and job hunting for 7 months, last week I passed on an interview for a QA position with Microsoft (UK) since I've been offered an actual IT job contract closer to home. I had a good think about it but I just didn't want to go back into the industry. Aside from moving across the country and going back to the bottom rung of the development ladder, it's also due to seeing (and experiencing) some stories of horrible treatment. I know you can get that anywhere but the games industry seems to have it more than elsewhere - it's still growing up. I feel like I've been there, done that and at the age of 28 it's like I should be doing something more than chasing childhood dreams.

Not to be all :smith: though... it's just time to move on.

Pros:
- Set work hours of 9 to 5, no overtime.
- (Arguably) better career prospects.
- The IT industry and services are more stable.

Cons:
- Good (ironed) shirt and trousers from now on. I hate ironing.
- Not everyone around me will be a gamer.
- Mundane work.

Games development for me from now on will virtually be a hobby, with work on Unity 3D and game design work in my spare time. I think that's a good compromise at least.

At the studio I worked at the team would analyse the latest games that were put on the retail consoles. It wasn't to a microscopic level but it was usually unfair bitching with bias, though that's to be expected with rival developers.

After working in QA I certainly found myself struggling to 'switch off' and ignore bugs. On the flipside, I appreciated that just because bugs were present or certain, obviously cool features weren't implemented then it doesn't mean the devs didn't consider them; I know that schedules have to be maintained instead and there's not time to do everything.

When you say bottom of the ladder, what was your last position?

Sorry to hear that man, although as much as I adore working in games - sometimes I do think it would be an easy decision to walk away.

NINbuntu 64
Feb 11, 2007

Looks like Valve just made poo poo get really real up in here. This is more on the indie side of things but I'm interested in seeing how a democratized approval system like this will play out.

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?

NINbuntu 64 posted:

Looks like Valve just made poo poo get really real up in here. This is more on the indie side of things but I'm interested in seeing how a democratized approval system like this will play out.
That is both cool and terrifying. Originally, you had a shot at getting into Steam by just being A Really Good Game That Had Some Press. Now you've got to convince people to go click some goofy referral link?

... really? Because that went so well in the thousands of "hey you other submitter let's trade votes because our fanbase doesn't really care to go to some voting page somewhere, they just want fun videos and a buy link when we're done" systems that have been done in the past.

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jul 9, 2012

Resource
Aug 6, 2006
Yay!

NINbuntu 64 posted:

Looks like Valve just made poo poo get really real up in here. This is more on the indie side of things but I'm interested in seeing how a democratized approval system like this will play out.

I was thinking about this news today, it'll be interesting to see if this just ends up flooding Steam like an app store with so many games that you can't find anything good, or if it'll really allow more great games to appear.

Also the potential for internet communities to maliciously skew results seems like it could be a problem. I hope they still maintain some oversight because it's certainly an interesting idea.

NINbuntu 64
Feb 11, 2007

Shalinor posted:

That is both cool and terrifying. Originally, you had a shot at getting into Steam by just being A Really Good Game That Had Some Press. Now you've got to convince people to go click some goofy referral link?

... really? Because that went so well in the thousands of "hey you other submitter let's trade votes because our fanbase doesn't really care to go to some voting page somewhere, they just want fun videos and a buy link when we're done" systems that have been done in the past.

Given Valve's track record with pretty much drat near everything, I trust them to handle this idea with a bit more prudence than everyone else, especially considering this line here:

quote:

We're going to be reaching out to developers as we see their games getting traction regardless of whether they have achieved a specific number of votes or are sitting 1st or 2nd place at any given time. We are most interested in finding the games that people want, not requiring them to always hit a specific number of votes.

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008

Soon, we will be unstoppable!
"Try a random game and vote on it" would be a much better idea and much harder to abuse.

NINbuntu 64
Feb 11, 2007

OneEightHundred posted:

"Try a random game and vote on it" would be a much better idea and much harder to abuse.

It'd be a worse idea because only five people will use it since it requires them to download and play a game in the first place. You'd also run into poo poo like people getting random games that completely fall outside of their interests, which would skew things negatively for more niche indie titles.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Shalinor posted:

That is both cool and terrifying. Originally, you had a shot at getting into Steam by just being A Really Good Game That Had Some Press. Now you've got to convince people to go click some goofy referral link?

... really? Because that went so well in the thousands of "hey you other submitter let's trade votes because our fanbase doesn't really care to go to some voting page somewhere, they just want fun videos and a buy link when we're done" systems that have been done in the past.

Yeah, at first glance it seems like a Bad Idea. It might work fine in the short term, when a large audience is available to participate, but as soon as people start to lose interest in voting it just becomes an exercise in coercing the internet into clicking a thing for you.

If Valve uses this to supplement their existing system I can see it being very powerful, but as a straight-up replacement, I'm not so sure.

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?

octoroon posted:

If Valve uses this to supplement their existing system I can see it being very powerful, but as a straight-up replacement, I'm not so sure.
Yeah, this to me is key. So long as all they're doing is, basically, opening up the submission process? So that we can see all games that are submitted that they're looking over? Ok. So they definitely look at the high-vote ones, and then also keep doing exactly what they're already doing, with looking over new entries or updated entries on their own to find the good ones.

... but if they ditch their own curating process entirely, it would destroy what they've got going right now.

mastermind2004
Sep 14, 2007

quote:

Steam Greenlight is a new system that enlists the community's help in picking some of the next games to be released on Steam.
I think the important thing is some of the next games, I assume they aren't killing their existing approval process, this is just to supplement it. So this way they don't have to run through whatever their internal process is for new indie games, they can just farm them out to Steam Greenlight, and see what bubbles up.

Chainclaw
Feb 14, 2009

Not a good year for any developers in Vancouver, looks like Rockstar shut down Rockstar Vancouver, the developer behind Max Payne 3
https://twitter.com/gamasutra/status/222482435181522945

I'm curious if it's a poor game sales situation, one of those more awkward no projects lined up situations, or a case of too much staff on hand and the next game is still in early production, don't need that many bodies.

edit: And in some odd coincidence, this article went up today on how studios avoid getting shut down / layoffs during downtime http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-successes-how-studios-avoid-closures-layoffs-and-attract-the-best-talen

Hughlander
May 11, 2005

Countdown to Eastern European click forms ala early App Store...

NINbuntu 64
Feb 11, 2007

Chainclaw posted:

Not a good year for any developers in Vancouver, looks like Rockstar shut down Rockstar Vancouver, the developer behind Max Payne 3
https://twitter.com/gamasutra/status/222482435181522945

I'm curious if it's a poor game sales situation, one of those more awkward no projects lined up situations, or a case of too much staff on hand and the next game is still in early production, don't need that many bodies.

This may have something to do with it:

quote:

In September 2011, analyst Arvind Bhatia from Stern Agees stated that Rockstar’s Max Payne 3 could cost $105 million to develop. $105 million is almost reaching production costs of a big summer blockbuster film. Arvind said Rockstar had a team of around 200 people working on the game, and Max Payne 3 needed to sell 4 million units to break even. In a financial report, Take-Two stated that they were expecting the game to sell at least 3 million copies. The game only sold 440,000 units in the first month. Michael Pachter called the game a flop, and there are now a few million copies of this game sitting around in stores as unsold inventory. How is this smart business? Why would you set yourself up in a situation where you have to sell 3 to 4 million copies just to break even?

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/07/02/the-rise-of-costs-the-fall-of-gaming/

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf
I'm just about to join a company in that corporate tree :ohdear:

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Lord of Sword
Dec 12, 2006

We live thinking we will never die.
We die thinking we had never lived.
Cut it out.
I got turned down after an interview earlier in the year (thought it went well but they said they'd talked to someone with 'better gameplay knowledge'). They're advertising the same position again now though, but is it a total waste of time for me to apply if they already decided not to hire me the first time?

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