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BoostCreep posted:I have an opportunity to buy an '87 Grand Wagoneer for super cheap. Like $500. It runs, passed california SMOG last year, and is in relatively good condition. 4x4, 4 door, auto, V8, no rust, etc. It does have some little problems like window motors that don't function 100% and door lock issues. It was bought for $3,800 a year ago and now the guy just wants to get rid of it. If I bought this, I'd be using it mostly as a tow rig for cars and a general get out of town 4x4er. I'll probably have to sell my '01 Cherokee if I got it, so it would have to be capable of towing while still being able to deliver all the off-road fun I can expect from my mildly modified XJ. BUY IT! You can EFI swap those motors with mostly junkyard parts off Chevy 350s for basically pocket change (as EFI swaps go) - no more than 300 bucks, and probably a lot less. You can also soup them up a bit, over the years many slightly different AMC 360s were made that have wildly differing horsepower ratings. Also, under no circumstances should you confuse the AMC 360 and the Chrysler 360, they're nowhere near the same except for being 360ci V8s. Only a few bolts and I think the rockers are the same, and they won't bolt to any of the same bellhousings and engine mounts. Just google for "amc 360 efi swap" or check IFSJA for more info. Can't say much about the auto transmissions, iirc it's some TF727 or something. But you can always worst-case swap it to manual, a T18 (iirc) with the right bellhousing will bolt up to that engine and transfer case.
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Jul 12, 2012 02:04
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BoostCreep posted:My questions are, does anyone have experience with these? Are they relatively easy to live with? It's a carbed AMC 360 engine in a body that was designed in 1962, so I'm a little concerned about dealing with something of that vintage and technology. Will it be reliable? Can that engine even tow? I'm seeing a 5,000lb towing capacity for it, which might be incorrect as it sounds low, but with a V8 engine that makes 144hp it wouldn't surprise me. I've never towed with my Wagoneer, but I plan to. I know a lot of people have. The 5000lb capacity is for the factory Class III hitch. I think at one point Jeep offered a Class IV hitch, although that could have just been for bigger J-truck pickups. The horsepower is low, but the AMC V8s make good torque. The big things to live with: -No overdrive -Vacuum line spiderweb, emissions were not kind to Wagoneers (especially in Cali) -Ride quality with 4 leaf springs -Rust, thank your lucky stars on that front. But check the floors around the rear seats, it's a problem area. -Engine oil problems. A lovely aluminum oil pump housing gets ground away and you lose pressure. Timing covers (which house the pump) are expensive. Get a reliable gauge and keep an eye on the pressure and you'll be OK Pros: -V8 is reliable aside from oil problems -Chrysler TF727 is a beast of a transmission -Dana 44 axles front and rear or comparable AMC 20 in rear (not the same lovely 2-piece axle shaft ones in CJs, FSJ AMC 20s are solid) -The 2bbl carb is a Motorcraft 2150, maybe the best 2bbl carb ever -A lot of engine accessories and other parts are shared with big three trucks of that era -Dedicated community at https://ifsja.org and parts support at https://bjsoffroad.com and https://teamgrandwagoneer.com For $500, I'd have it parked in my driveway by now Salami Surgeon fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 02:36
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The jks track bars are awfully pricey... what about rubicon express? http://www.quadratec.com/products/16311_602.htm I'm slightly concerned that I may not be in the correct lift range though. My coils add maybe 3" and the tires are currently 31s, my next tires will be either 32 or 33" when these wear out (1-2 years). ethanol fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 03:02
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SNiPER_Magnum posted:things You never explained what a cinder box is.
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Jul 12, 2012 06:28
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 Just finished modeling this a while ago. I'm also doing a YJ but I haven't found good blueprints yet, so it's being done mostly by imagination.
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Jul 12, 2012 08:57
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Steiler Drep posted:
let me  here.I think the windows are too big. Military fuel cans should be green. The lower portion of the fender that flattens out should be flush with the bottom of the tub. An MB/GPW had cutaways for the pioneer axe and shovel. If I remember correctly the front bumper should be a simple U channel. The blocks on the hood for the windshield were generally made of wood if you want to get fancy with textures.  just look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Covered_Willy%27s_jeep_Wings_Over_Wine_Country_2007.JPG Also there are a bunch of YJ models on sketchup if you want to use them to get an idea http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=yj&styp=m&scoring=t&btnG=Search
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Jul 12, 2012 12:49
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ethanol posted:The jks track bars are awfully pricey... what about rubicon express? RE's is pretty good, plus Clayton and Iron Rock are nice, too (I have IR's on my XJ with the double-shear bracket.) JKS makes nice stuff, but they really overprice themselves above some very good competition. You might be okay on the lift range. I think mine was around 2"-3" and the bar was for 3.5"-7" but I still had some threads between the joint and the jam nut. Philip J Fry fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 13:57
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Philip J Fry posted:RE's is pretty good, plus Clayton and Iron Rock are nice, too (I have IR's on my XJ with the double-shear bracket.) JKS makes nice stuff, but they really overprice themselves above some very good competition. Edit: the shop just quoted $400 to put in m track bars and steering stabilizer. Are they loving insane? I'm just gonna buckle down and do it myself. ethanol fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 14:46
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ethanol posted:
That is pretty insane. that's like 15 minutes worth of work at most.
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Jul 12, 2012 20:00
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Has anyone replaced the wiring harness and rubber boot that goes from the rear lift gate into the driver's side kick panel behind the spare tire? I have found the wiring harness, but I can't find the rubber boot anywhere. A part number would seriously rule, but any other suggestions here? 99 XJ by the way...
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Jul 12, 2012 20:06
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So, a friend of mine that lives halfway across the country can't find any Wranglers worth a drat that aren't either terrible or sold before they can get to them. She's asked me to look at some out here in AZ, in particular this one (a 2001 It looks clean enough in photos, and supposedly the restored title is due to being stolen and having the interior ripped out. Any trouble points in particular with the TJ that I should be looking for if/when I go inspect and test drive this thing? IOwnCalculus fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 20:26
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IOwnCalculus posted:So, a friend of mine that lives halfway across the country can't find any Wranglers worth a drat that aren't either terrible or sold before they can get to them. She's asked me to look at some out here in AZ, in particular this one (a 2001 YJ, in case CL fails). That is actually a TJ. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that it probably has the 0331 head casting which is prone to cracking. You can check for the TUPY stamp under the oil fill cap and if it's there, you have the updated version which has the better casting. I'm almost certain that a 2001 model has the bad head, though. Milky residue under the oil fill cap is a sure sign of a cracked head. rally fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 20:45
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So I parked in my driveway as usual which is pretty steep(you can see how steep in a photo I posted earlier in this thread) and I was absent minded and just left it in first when I parked it. I get a call from my neighbor 15 minutes later that my truck is blocking the alley... I go out and check and yep sure enough its still in first. I start it up and theres an unfamiliar noise even when in neutral. Fifteen minutes later I go out to the dentist but the noise isn't there anymore. Did I do some irreparable damage to my tranny? What caused it to roll? Was the drive way steep enough to turn the engine and transmission? edit: Question #2 Say I get new wheels, can I fit 33s on an unlifted TJ? I recall there being a picture of one but I can't find it in the thread Shubs fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 21:15
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This really should be a factory option, and maybe they could throw in that rumored 3.0 diesel from the Grand Cherokee. Manual transmission would be nice too, but I don't want to be greedy. 
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Jul 12, 2012 21:18
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BrownieVK posted:This really should be a factory option, and maybe they could throw in that rumored 3.0 diesel from the Grand Cherokee. Manual transmission would be nice too, but I don't want to be greedy. Every time I look at one of these I think of the Gladiator concept vehicle and how I'd much rather have one of those.  That or how I could make something similar with a hardtop two door and a sawzall for a fraction of the cost. Sandbagger SA fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 21:40
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commissargribb posted:That or how I could make something similar with a hardtop two door and a sawzall for a fraction of the cost. I cant imagine how much the kits are, I haven't really checked. I'm not sure if it would even be a smart move to make one a factory option, it might not sell well to the general public. Hell most people I see in new Jeeps in my area have the painted hardtops and color matched panels all around, kind of making an imitation G-Wagen, and no they are never dusty, let alone actually dirty. The Gladiator is sexy though!
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Jul 12, 2012 22:18
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They're about $8k, aren't they? Edit: Just under $6k. http://www.quadratec.com/products/12503_8000_07.htm
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Jul 12, 2012 22:22
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InitialDave posted:They're about $8k, aren't they? Before professional installation. 
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Jul 12, 2012 23:03
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commissargribb posted:Every time I look at one of these I think of the Gladiator concept vehicle and how I'd much rather have one of those. As far as I can see, the only difference is a lot of chrome(which is  on its own) and a side mounted tire?
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Jul 12, 2012 23:20
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rally posted:That is actually a TJ. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that it probably has the 0331 head casting which is prone to cracking. You can check for the TUPY stamp under the oil fill cap and if it's there, you have the updated version which has the better casting. I'm almost certain that a 2001 model has the bad head, though. Milky residue under the oil fill cap is a sure sign of a cracked head. Thank you, wouldn't have ever known about that little bit...the two Jeep owners I know in real life either have considerably newer or older Jeeps that weren't impacted by this. Hell, I never even came across that info when I was looking at '98+ Cherokees for a while.
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Jul 12, 2012 23:56
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Shubs posted:As far as I can see, the only difference is a lot of chrome(which is It just seems like more of a complete vehicle idea to me. It's also got a sun roof and a terrible half crew cab for paraplegic people with no legs.  And This weird tiny door on the side with the spare tire.  ^ I dont know what this thing is under the spare.
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Jul 13, 2012 00:53
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Alright, the stars have finally aligned and this Sunday we're gonna get together and pull the high-mileage transmission and non-TUPY 4.0 from this 2001 XJ: and replace it with the low-mileage transmission and TUPY 4.0 from this totaled jeep:  I kind of don't know what I'm doing but luckily a friend who does is showing up! I hope  The plan is to remove the front clip, radiator, and front bumper then pull the entire thing straight out. This is the easiest way to swap the engine/trans if you're doing both at the same time, correct? Is there any particular little problems that aren't obvious but I should watch out for? (For example I've read a couple engine swap threads and they're a little vague with the details, but get that you should remove or at least keep an eye out for the crankshaft position sensor as it can apparently be easily damaged if the engine/transmission aren't swapped independently.) I'm also starting a tool list and I need an E-12 star bit for the transmission, correct? Any other unusual tools I should think about investing in? I eats my spinach fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jul 13, 2012 |
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Jul 13, 2012 01:05
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IOwnCalculus posted:So, a friend of mine that lives halfway across the country can't find any Wranglers worth a drat that aren't either terrible or sold before they can get to them. She's asked me to look at some out here in AZ, in particular this one (a 2001 Quoting myself because holy crap, no way would I pay even half asking price for it. Totally never noticed that it was a 4cyl until I got there. The thing felt about twice as slow as my 4cyl Ranger does. On top of that, the A/C was aftermarket with no apparent way to disable the compressor, and most disturbing of all, the suspension felt barely cobbled together. Every bump in the road made the thing feel like it wanted to hunt, and crossing train tracks I was afraid it was going to spin out in a straight line. Now, this is only the third Wrangler I've ever been in, but all three have been more or less crapbuckets. Does a good Wrangler actually want to track in a straight line, or do they ALL feel like they're trying to hunt all over the road?
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Jul 13, 2012 03:21
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Death wobble? That can come up in any solid front axle vehicle, and I think the Wrangler has been the only one in the US for years. It's not uncommon at all, but I'd stay away. My 93 YJ didn't have it, and so far my JK is good. In the JK it's apparently caused by some insufficiently torqued bolts in the front suspension most of the time. It causes other failures after a while though.
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Jul 13, 2012 03:28
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My YJ drives somewhat straight. Straighter than a lot of other cars I've owned.
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Jul 13, 2012 03:41
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MAJOR STRYkER posted:You never explained what a cinder box is. It's a cinder block when your brain doesn't work and you don't proofread.
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Jul 13, 2012 03:56
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I'd bet every wrangler owner will encounter alignment/suspension problems. You just need to figure out what is out of shape and repair it. Wranglers need a lot of love and a steady cash flow. That's why like half the jeeps on the road are complete poo poo buckets and the other half are awesome and fun and worth it. It completely depends on how the owner maintains the thing. Just dont even bother with one unless its got a 4.0 and a Dana 44 in the back. Pay the extra money now or later. Believe me when I tell you, I just dropped over two grand swapping out my grenaded d35. Do yourself a favor and read up on lift kits too, there aren't that many brands and some are much better than others, and the components contribute heavily to tracking and overall ride quality. Most of the Tj's left for sale with Dana 44's are probably already lifted. You can probably bet as well that the bigger and nastier the tires, the harsher the ride. My lift is a modest 3", '99 4.0 tj here with 99,000 miles an I have great ride quality, which I chaulk up to new bilstein shocks and decent coils. Hope I didn't offend anybody with my proper ownership elitism, I cringe when I see those poo poo bucket 4 cyls in the super market parking lot. Edit, by the way, the slightest amount of wind and you can throw your jeep suspension out the window. Doesn't matter how tight it is, youre going to be everywhere, hang on to that steering wheel Super edit: You mentioned you're in az, that's where I went to buy my wrangler. I drove it all the back to Vermont. Well worth the gas money because the desert helped to keep the jeep in immaculate condition. ethanol fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jul 13, 2012 |
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Jul 13, 2012 04:43
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Godholio posted:Death wobble? That can come up in any solid front axle vehicle, and I think the Wrangler has been the only one in the US for years. It's not uncommon at all, but I'd stay away. My 93 YJ didn't have it, and so far my JK is good. In the JK it's apparently caused by some insufficiently torqued bolts in the front suspension most of the time. It causes other failures after a while though. Nah, the front end felt decently planted (aside from the wheel "centering" at about 30 degrees to the right) but the rear end felt like it was barely hanging on to the rest of the truck. It only just now dawned on me that I should probably ask my coworker with his TJ if I can take it for a spin and make sure I'm just not expecting too much out of a tiny wheelbase, solid axle front-and-rear vehicle.
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Jul 13, 2012 04:49
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ethanol posted:Just dont even bother with one unless its got a 4.0 and a Dana 44 in the back. I have a super budget cheap leaf spring lift but coming from 25 year old springs, it was actually a marked improvement. Now I just need to replace this 4.2L High Smog Output motor, Auto trans, NoPower207 xfer case, and my D35. Oh and eliminate the slip yoke in the rear end  Yeah it's been a stream of cash. The cool thing though is a lot/most of the stuff I can do myself rather cheaply even though I have very little experience wrenching.
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Jul 13, 2012 04:54
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Professor Awesome posted:Alright, the stars have finally aligned and this Sunday we're gonna get together and pull the high-mileage transmission and non-TUPY 4.0 from this 2001 XJ: a few things - * yes, that's probably the easiest way. Pull the bumper, radiator, front clip, starter, and perhaps passenger side frame to motor mount bracket, and it should come out easily with an HF engine hoist. Easier with the transfer case removed from the drivetrain, but that's enough of a pain in the rear end I usually leave it on. You WILL want a load leveling bar to make this easier, and at least one helper, I've done it alone a few times but it requires a lot of frustration, some jumping on the front crossmember, and a certain lack of caring about the condition of the oil pan and front crossmember. * 00 or 01 donor, 01 recipient right? All the sensors and accessories are going to be exactly the same, don't even bother removing them from the donor engine. Just disconnect all the connectors and yank it. I wouldn't even remove the manifolds from the engine, especially since you've probably got the pre-cat exhaust setup, which means no possibility of broken studs in the exhaust manifold, they're through bolts. * If you pull the AC compressor and condenser, you can sorta lay them off to the side (on a few layers of cardboard and rags) so you don't have to drain, evacuate, and refill the AC system. * no need for an E12 socket since you're swapping the whole unit - you only need it if you ever intend to separate an engine from a transmission. * Some tools you will want to have on hand - - 5/16 gear wrench for undoing driveshaft bolts and ujoint strap bolts - 5/16 6 point box wrench for breaking the same bolts loose - if you use an 8mm or a 12 point, there's a drat good chance you'll be cutting the heads off, drilling them out, and retapping. Not a good day. - 3/8 quick disconnect tool for fuel and trans cooler lines - you can get the full set at autozone for a decent price, get the multi colored anodized aluminum set not the plastic ones (junk) or the universal one-size-fucks-up-all diecast zinc one (really loving junk) - if the donor motor is leaking oil from the oil filter adapter housing, you will want a T55 torx socket to remove it (depending on year, iirc 00/01 use the torx) so you can replace those $5 of o-rings while it's dangling in front of you, rather than crammed up against the frame rail. * some spare parts you will want to have on hand - - fuel line quick disconnect o-ring kit. Removing the quickdisconnect munches up the o-rings sometimes and car-be-ques are no fun. I forget what the part number for it is. - some 14mm full circle fuel injection hose clamps, just in case things go really badly with the quick disconnects. - vaseline to make sure you can get the drat quick disconnect back together without tearing up the new o-rings... - new o-ring kit for the oil filter adapter housing if it's leaking on the donor motor. $5 or so at autozone, check the help section. - new bolts for the exhaust manifold to precat flanges (not sure what size these are) if yours look crusty at all - new engine mounts if yours look cracked - do not buy the cheapest ones off rockauto, they are worthless - new filter, oil, few gallons of coolant, etc of course. also a few quarts of ATF - any Dexron/Mercon compatible is fine. I can't think of any other special tools or commonly needed replacement parts. Be real careful about the oil pressure sender, they're quite delicate and if you break one, you're going to have a flaky gauge at best and a sudden, severe lack of oil pressure at worst.
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Jul 13, 2012 04:54
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ethanol posted:I'd bet every wrangler owner will encounter alignment/suspension problems. You just need to figure out what is out of shape and repair it. Wranglers need a lot of love and a steady cash flow. I don't think my friends will have any problems with the first part of this - her husband has built a handful of full-on project cars and motorcycles. I think he's well up to the task of keeping a Wrangler on the road, but I don't want to tell him to buy something where he's going to be absolutely hating life on the drive back to KC. I'd rather help him find something where they can at least drive it a while before that steady stream of cash starts. Also, to be perfectly honest it's very likely the Jeep will never see any actual offroading out there, just some dirt roads and that thing called "snow". And yeah, there are shitloads of them out here. No rust, and no inspection (other than emissions in two counties) so it's all just a matter of how long someone is willing to keep it rolling. I think there's more Jeeps on the East Valley CL alone than there are in all of KC.
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Jul 13, 2012 05:24
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IOwnCalculus posted:Nah, the front end felt decently planted (aside from the wheel "centering" at about 30 degrees to the right) but the rear end felt like it was barely hanging on to the rest of the truck. My TJ only has a 2.5 inch lift and 33's and drives decently straight. Wind takes it for quite a ride, but that happens on completely stock TJ's too. Lifts and bigger tires make the steering have less return-to-center and wander easier, but if your suspension is tight it will be predictable and controllable with a firm grip; worn out bushings and ball joints let the axle float around too much and that's when you get wild beasts instead of slightly wandering beasts.
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Jul 13, 2012 05:33
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kastein posted:a few things - Cool, thanks (again.) Yeah, both are 2001s and also yeah the E12 socket thing was sort of confusing. It was of course mentioned in engine swap advice threads that left the old transmission in place but a couple guys mentioned them in fully assembled unit swaps too, however looking at our '99 I couldn't figure out where the hell an E12 bolt attached the transmission to the body or crossmember or whatever. We're selling the higher-mileage engine and transmission to our mailman and he's supposed to bring his hoist but I don't know if he has a leveler. (Does the "HF" in "HF engine hoist" stand for Harbor Freight, ie just any cheapass hoist?)
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Jul 13, 2012 05:33
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Professor Awesome posted:Cool, thanks (again.) Yeah, both are 2001s and also yeah the E12 socket thing was sort of confusing. It was of course mentioned in engine swap advice threads that left the old transmission in place but a couple guys mentioned them in fully assembled unit swaps too, however looking at our '99 I couldn't figure out where the hell an E12 bolt attached the transmission to the body or crossmember or whatever. We're selling the higher-mileage engine and transmission to our mailman and he's supposed to bring his hoist but I don't know if he has a leveler. (Does the "HF" in "HF engine hoist" stand for Harbor Freight, ie just any cheapass hoist?) The E12 socket is used to remove the top two bolts from the bellhousing so that you can unmate the engine and transmission. I don't know if they're used on automatics, but manuals have them.
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Jul 13, 2012 05:35
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commissargribb posted:
Looks like a bottle jack.
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Jul 13, 2012 11:53
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Professor Awesome posted:Cool, thanks (again.) Yeah, both are 2001s and also yeah the E12 socket thing was sort of confusing. It was of course mentioned in engine swap advice threads that left the old transmission in place but a couple guys mentioned them in fully assembled unit swaps too, however looking at our '99 I couldn't figure out where the hell an E12 bolt attached the transmission to the body or crossmember or whatever. We're selling the higher-mileage engine and transmission to our mailman and he's supposed to bring his hoist but I don't know if he has a leveler. (Does the "HF" in "HF engine hoist" stand for Harbor Freight, ie just any cheapass hoist?) yeah, I've been abusing my harbor freight hoist for years and it hasn't died yet. As for the leveler - it's like 30 bucks at harbor freight. Not the best, but certainly works and I haven't broken it yet either.
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Jul 13, 2012 14:36
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Are the coolant flushing kits that Prestone sells garbage? I noticed this morning that the inside of my coolant overflow bottle is pretty drat nasty, and my coolant smells really foul and looks a little cloudy. I intend to replace the water pump pretty soon, but until then I would like to know things are relatively clean in there. If I use one of these kits is there anything I should know so I don't destroy my new radiator or anything?
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Jul 13, 2012 19:13
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rally posted:Are the coolant flushing kits that Prestone sells garbage? I noticed this morning that the inside of my coolant overflow bottle is pretty drat nasty, and my coolant smells really foul and looks a little cloudy. I intend to replace the water pump pretty soon, but until then I would like to know things are relatively clean in there. Found some coolant system flush kits: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/cat...tgry=SEARCH+ALL
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Jul 13, 2012 21:16
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Made some door hangers today! 
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Jul 13, 2012 21:18
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EightBit posted:Found some coolant system flush kits: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/cat...tgry=SEARCH+ALL Yeah I mean specifically the chemical they have you put into the radiator with water and run for a little while to clean the poo poo out. I have read a few things saying not to put tap water into your radiator due to corrosion and such. My main concern is loving up the heater core. This thing got new coolant about 2000 miles ago and its already smelly and gunked up, obviously the whole thing is gross and has been for awhile, I don't want to do further damage.
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Jul 14, 2012 00:26
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