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Taerkar posted:The USPS has already been addressed so I'll handle the DMV. The DMV is hamstrung by the fact that we must carry around reams of documents in this country rather than having an efficient data warehousing system that allows all of the various pieces of government to communicate efficiently. Once you enter the DMV, if you don't have all 50 documents required to achieve whatever goal you had in mind, then there is really nothing they can do to help, and you standing and yelling at the attendant will not help. Sorry for the rant, but I loving hate how our government outright rejects the use of technology to make our everyday lives even better.
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Jul 18, 2012 20:29
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Last time I went to the DMV it wasn't even the county office, but just the mobile unit they have once a week in my town (basically an RV with a couple of DMV workers). I had to transfer both the title and registration on my car to my name, and once I got in (after a ~10 minute wait) it literally took five minutes to complete and get a new set of plates.
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Jul 18, 2012 20:29
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In Arizona, if you have a simple issue you can do the entire thing online and get your paperwork or ID in the mail. It's very quick and easy.
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Jul 18, 2012 20:31
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My appointment to get a State I.D. at the California DMV probably took ~20 minutes. Of course, it's going to take a month to mail the drat thing for some reason.
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Jul 18, 2012 20:34
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Looks like we're done here:quote:3. You're all over the map on this one. When I see a mail truck pull up in front of a building and deliver to houses down the street - and not the building which it is parked in front of, I see inefficiency. USPS is bankrupt. UPS and FedEx are not. Amazon and Zappos manage to reliably ship me products in ridiculous time. Not using USPS.
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Jul 18, 2012 20:36
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jojoinnit posted:Looks like we're done here: yeah, this guy has a vision of what he wants to believe and not amount of data is ever going to change that. USPS delivers packages on par with the other carriers. I guess he is mad about a letter he sent using basic postage or something.
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Jul 18, 2012 20:38
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I would also like to contribute my DMV anecdote: I've never had a problem with them out in NJ, and I don't really understand where all these horror stories come from. I mean, oh no, I had to wait in line for 20 minutes?
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Jul 18, 2012 20:38
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jojoinnit posted:This is moving fast now. His response: 1) Tying spending to some magic GDP number is silly. First and foremost, how do you even derive such a number? Is 25% too much, but 24.7% is ok? Besides, there's a lot that goes into that. For example, spending to GDP skyrocketed in 2009 (from about 20% to 25%), but has been coming down since Q3 2010 despite little in cuts to spending. Did we somehow increase spending in 2009 by 25%? No. The recession cut into revenues, but it also contracts GDP. As a result, when GDP shrinks and government spending remains steady, spending becomes a large percentage of GDP. The questions to be asking are, "do we need this?" and "can we afford it?". If that means that sometimes spending as a fraction of GDP is 33% and sometimes its 19% so be it. 2) The problem here is the marginal utility of a dollar. The less money you have, the more valuable each one is; and the more you have, the less useful each one is. For example, if you taxed everyone 50%. That's fair, everyone pays the exact same tax. Only now you have a family of four making $24,000 a year, paying $12,000 in taxes. They couldn't really survive off of 100% of their income, and now they have only half as much. Meanwhile, you have someone like Mitt Romney who makes $22M in a year, and pays his 50%; this leaves him with $11 MILLION dollars after taxes. At a 50% percent tax, poor family can't survive; but at 50% tax, Mitt can still be absurdly wealthy, making more money in a single year after taxes than most American families will make in their entire lives before taxes. This is why progressive tax systems exist. The idea that its not fair for Mitt to only keep $11M after taxes, while the poor family gets to keep 100% of their $24,000 is just crazy. I honestly don't understand how this is not plain as day to people. 3) The problem is, leaving it in the hands of private organizations mean it will increasingly become less attainable. They aren't interested in actually getting you care, just in getting your money. But I don't have it in me to do a massive healthcare effort post right now. I will say, the USPS thing is silly, the USPS is amazing. Its only real problems are that people don't really need it as much anymore due to the internet, and some really really lovely Republican laws designed to hamstring it. As for the DMV, its really easy to fix the DMV. Its not that they're inefficient or terrible, they're understaffed. How efficient is you local McDonalds at getting people their food during lunch-rush hour with only one register open? If you want to make the DMV better, spend more money on it so they can hire more people which will cut down on the wait time. But its ultimately a case of "you get what you pay for". jojoinnit posted:He gave me his source as this: http://technorati.com/politics/article/waiving-work-requirements-for-welfare-recipients/ Ok, I hadn't heard about that, though I don't fully trust those sources, but I think they were good enough. DHHS is going to start granting waivers to States who want to add some flexibility to the rules. Honestly it seems relatively minor to me. But it's hard to tell exactly what it is going on beyond the fact that its not some massive welfare change at a national level. Most States won't change at all. Also, I love Mitt Romney's quote about how linking work and welfare is the key to preventing welfare from being a way of life. You know what else keeps welfare from being a way of life? The fact that most people live longer than five years.
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Jul 18, 2012 20:39
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Vyacheslav posted:I would also like to contribute my DMV anecdote: I've never had a problem with them out in NJ, and I don't really understand where all these horror stories come from. I mean, oh no, I had to wait in line for 20 minutes? From my experience it comes from people who don't understand the bureaucracy of the system and get pushed around/chewed up because of it. ed: also cause it's a public thing that they can't pay money to get expedited or served quicker than the proles. nsaP fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jul 18, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 20:40
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Edit: poo poo, I missed there was another page. Never mind.
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Jul 18, 2012 20:42
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UnmaskedGremlin posted:Him: "Seth, please stop sipping the Kool Aid! Obama did not say that, try quoting him and stop believing the Spin........ The Govt did not directly help me, the Govt did not directly build the roads, small businesses like O & G Industries, Mohawk Construction, and CT Concrete build roads..... The Govt did not directly build my phone system Toshiba Electronics did......... The Govt did not sell me the phone system directly a small business in Prospect CT by the name of Mid-State Tele Data did, The Govt does not directly provide me phone lines it is a Corporation by the name of AT & T............. All the Government does is regulate and tax these businesses and companies of which some is needed but this Country is not meant to be a Government Center Society as Mr. Obama would like and that is what he meant by his comments. I believe our Country was founded so it was a Citizen centered Society with Freedom and Liberty and less Government!!!!!" I would just give up on that one if he is saying with a straight face that construction companies built the roads. He's either completely nuts or being intentionally dense.
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Jul 18, 2012 20:50
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Boxman posted:I would just give up on that one if he is saying with a straight face that construction companies built the roads. He's either completely nuts or being intentionally dense. It actually got a bit better from there, I think: ME: I think you're confused dude. I'm not sure you read what he said at all. Whether it was government, a teacher, a private investor, a company, anyone, as a society we all work together, and no one can stand alone. No one can survive without the help of one another. That was the message and the gist. If you'd like, I can copy the two paragraphs from the speech that explain that. Nothing about free, nothing about an all encompassing government. Everyone needs help along the way. Whether its making a phone call, driving a car (on a road!), getting taught to read and write and do math, or having a building to conduct business in, we all relied on someone else to help put us in that position. Him: Seth, please post the 2 paragraphs, hell post the whole transcript.......... You are right in your last post, many people helped me build my business, my clients, my partner, my employees, the Broker/Dealer, the Bank of New York, etc....etc.... but the GOVERNMENT was NOT one of them........ The whole Crux of the debate that Obama started with his comments is this basic question: “Who do you think is responsible for creating American businesses? Choice No. 1: American people, small-business owners and entrepreneurs. Or choice No. 2: the Government. I vote for choice number one. Which do you vote for? Me: “Posted Obama speech quote” There is no debate about what he was inferring. Only if you weren't paying attention. That question you posed is no where in that quote. So I'm not sure where you're coming up with those questions. But the bottom line is without government, no one would have the infrastructure to do anything. So to say they haven't done anything for anyone is laughable. Him: And where did you and copy and paste that from?? Please, be clear I am not saying or suggesting that The United States of America is not Awesome because it is. I am very blessed to have been born here and to have the opportunities that my US citizenship affords me. However, it comes back to this are we a Government Centered Society or an Individual Centered Society with Individual Freedoms, Individual Liberties, and Individual Rights. I believe as many many other people smarter than me agree that Obama's speech which you partially quoted is a vote for Obama is a vote for a Government Centered Society and NOT one with Individual Rights, Freedoms, and Liberties! Me: His speech that he made like 3 days ago in which your picture you posted is in reference to. The one where he made no inferences to individual or government based societies, whatever those are, and how as a group of people living in the same country and world, we need to work together to become stronger, better, greater. There's no rhetoric to it. Been silent since then.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:01
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Amused to Death posted:Heck last time I went to the DMV to get a new ID, I was in and out within 15 minutes. It took me longer to park my car than renew my registration. jojoinnit posted:Looks like we're done here: Hahaha. They do that because the employees get to keep the $$$ they don't spend on gas. The employee is being more personally efficient by walking!
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Jul 18, 2012 21:06
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Taerkar posted:It took me longer to park my car than renew my registration. Must be nice! Kansas hired a 3rd party company to overhaul it's DMV software and it completely backfired. After giving them something like $45m it was so bad that they decided to withhold the remaining $5m due to the estimated increase in labor it will take to man the local offices due to the new slower software. For awhile they had to restrict it to X number of registrations per office so if you weren't there in line when the office opened you weren't going to get your car registered. I sure am glad they outsourced this rather then actually have government employees create the system and be able to continue development and make improvements to it. It's so much better having the 3rd party company take the 90% that's already paid and run the gently caress away saying, "Good luck!"
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Jul 18, 2012 21:18
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Taerkar posted:They do that because the employees get to keep the $$$ they don't spend on gas. The employee is being more personally efficient by walking! The entire idea that government can't do anything right is nothing but a right wing fallacy. I know we already do outsource a lot of our military work to 3rd parties, but why don't republicans call for the abolition of the government run military? Surely they can't be as efficient as private companies!
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Jul 18, 2012 21:22
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Taerkar posted:Hahaha.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:25
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Amused to Death posted:Heck last time I went to the DMV to get a new ID, I was in and out within 15 minutes. Cool. The last time I renewed my license it took about three hours and I had to drive across town, between facilities twice. To be fair, it would have only taken two hours but one of them was closed for lunch (wtf) so I ran some unrelated errands while waiting.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:27
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As someone from the UK, I have never gotten all the talk about having to stand in line at the DMV or other such governmental instituation. Are you not able to do these things by post or online?
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Jul 18, 2012 21:30
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Tsietisin posted:As someone from the UK, I have never gotten all the talk about having to stand in line at the DMV or other such governmental instituation. Nope! Maybe depending on the state, but usually not. Instituting these kinds of things are often hard because they're spun as BIG GOVERNMENT EXPANSIONS, or the Republican Party turns it down because they want people to associate dealing with the government with frustration.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:32
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I was catching up on the thread and was gonna respond to an older post that would illustrate something I've been thinking about regarding the topic of individualism but this will work well:UnmaskedGremlin posted:Him: "Seth, please stop sipping the Kool Aid! Obama did not say that, try quoting him and stop believing the Spin........ The Govt did not directly help me, the Govt did not directly build the roads, small businesses like O & G Industries, Mohawk Construction, and CT Concrete build roads..... The Govt did not directly build my phone system Toshiba Electronics did......... The Govt did not sell me the phone system directly a small business in Prospect CT by the name of Mid-State Tele Data did, The Govt does not directly provide me phone lines it is a Corporation by the name of AT & T............. All the Government does is regulate and tax these businesses and companies of which some is needed but this Country is not meant to be a Government Center Society as Mr. Obama would like and that is what he meant by his comments. I believe our Country was founded so it was a Citizen centered Society with Freedom and Liberty and less Government!!!!!" Look at this. Look how personal this is to him. I don't think this attitude, which is incredibly common, has anything to do with paying taxes. Conservatives are more than happy to pay taxes for police, prisons, border enforcement, and the military. It has nothing to do with government interference in people's personal lives or anything. I think the problem is that they don't want to owe anybody. I've been reading David Graeber's "Debt - The First 5000 Years" and he talks a good bit about the social conditioning of the concept of debt. It is seen as a moral failing to be in debt and when one is in debt it is a moral imperative to pay off that debt. A debt doesn't have to be money; if a friend helps you move, for instance, you feel obligated to help him when he moves. If the individualist believes that he has received help in his life it is absolutely necessary for his/her self image to believe that it was a service paid for or else he/she will be in debt, and in the case of things like infrastructure, schools, etc, there is no way to pay that back so that they are completely square, at least not in the individualist mind. That's why, I think, they often use the imagery of welfare "slavery" - if the government helps you out of poverty, you'll be in hoc for life. I think it might be useful to keep this in mind when arguing with bootstrappers. If there is some way to deflate the sense that government programs incur a debt, it might help to open up the conversation a bit more.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:37
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Leon Einstein posted:This is a common conservative viewpoint, but it's completely wrong. Getting a letter anywhere in the country in a few days for 44 cents is pretty goddamn impressive. The USPS was hamstrung by the right forcing them to PRE-PAY pensions for the next 75 years. This has been making it appear that they've been losing huge amounts of money for years and years. The GOP will be happy as pigs in poo poo when it is eventually replaced by private companies that won't deliver to unprofitable areas. The irony rich icing on that irony cake is that all of the unprofitable areas that the private sector won't deliver to are the same areas that the private sector refuses to deliver to now. We tend to describe it as the rural/farm base of the Republican party. So not only are they voting against their own economic interests but they are voting against their ability to send/receive a chain letter. edit: balls this thread moved fast but I'll leave it here.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:46
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Dr Christmas posted:Nope! Maybe depending on the state, but usually not. Instituting these kinds of things are often hard because they're spun as BIG GOVERNMENT EXPANSIONS, or the Republican Party turns it down because they want people to associate dealing with the government with frustration. We probably have more government intrusion than most, but anything vehicle related is entirely uncomplicated. Need new car tax (I think the same as your tags), just apply online. Need to update your photo on your licence, just pop it in the post. Want copies of your annual vehicle check certificate, print it out yourself from the government website. Seems strange that I might have to take time out from my day to sort these things out.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:49
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Dameius posted:The irony rich icing on that irony cake is that all of the unprofitable areas that the private sector won't deliver to are the same areas that the private sector refuses to deliver to now. We tend to describe it as the rural/farm base of the Republican party. So not only are they voting against their own economic interests but they are voting against their ability to send/receive a chain letter. More specifically if you Fed Ex something out to Ruralland, USA, they'll dump it off on the USPS to deliver the final bit.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:54
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Anubis posted:Must be nice! Kansas hired a 3rd party company to overhaul it's DMV software and it completely backfired. After giving them something like $45m it was so bad that they decided to withhold the remaining $5m due to the estimated increase in labor it will take to man the local offices due to the new slower software. For awhile they had to restrict it to X number of registrations per office so if you weren't there in line when the office opened you weren't going to get your car registered. Just to emphasize how hosed up Kansas is right now: I bought a vehicle from a dude over in Missouri, so I had to go in to get my temporary tags, then get the vin inspected to prove it wasn't stolen, then go get my actual plates. So I had to go to the DMV twice. They open their doors at 7:30 am. By 7:45, they no longer allow you to get in line for new tags. They are already fully booked for the day. Try again tomorrow. They've set up a system to get in line by cell phone, and they will text you updates about your place in line. Both times I got in line 5 minutes after the phones opened and didn't get to the front of the line until after noon. I can't imagine how hosed a person would be if the don't have a cellphone/don't have reliable transportation/don't have a job near the DMV that is cool with you taking off for a half our in the middle of the after noon.
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Jul 18, 2012 22:08
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archangelwar posted:The DMV is hamstrung by the fact that we must carry around reams of documents in this country rather than having an efficient data warehousing system that allows all of the various pieces of government to communicate efficiently. Once you enter the DMV, if you don't have all 50 documents required to achieve whatever goal you had in mind, then there is really nothing they can do to help, and you standing and yelling at the attendant will not help. Last time I went to the DMV I called ahead and it put me in the queue and texted me the approximate time I would be called. I scheduled my drive accordingly. I got stuck in traffic and it texted me that I was up, and if I needed five more minutes I should simply respond "More Time." I did so, and showed up right in time for my appointment. I was out of there in five minutes flat. edit: This was Johnson County, Kansas. Don't know why you guys are having so much trouble. Mr. Belding fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jul 18, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 22:21
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I was looking into getting my license/buying/registering a car in Kansas and their website for that stuff has been 404 for about 6 months now. It's loving ridiculous.
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Jul 18, 2012 22:22
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nsaP posted:It's all about how it's framed, and places like foxnews are framing it like this: On this note it continues. This is why there are arguments about the Obama comment, current Fox front page 
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Jul 18, 2012 22:25
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Look at that politics, terrorist attack, and my little ponies.
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Jul 18, 2012 22:41
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Leon Einstein posted:
In office Republican: "Government can't do poo poo right, allow me to demonstrate." Taerkar posted:More specifically if you Fed Ex something out to Ruralland, USA, they'll dump it off on the USPS to deliver the final bit. Doesnt UPS payroll go through USPS?
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Jul 18, 2012 22:52
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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Mr. Belding posted:Last time I went to the DMV I called ahead and it put me in the queue and texted me the approximate time I would be called. I scheduled my drive accordingly. I got stuck in traffic and it texted me that I was up, and if I needed five more minutes I should simply respond "More Time." Because the states don't share data and many of them don't have the same system and convenience that you do which was my point. Your experience might have been great, but now try transferring your title and registration to another state. The new system will likely not be able to speak with the old system and you may be stuck printing out a ton of paper work. And since you aren't in the new system, that means more paperwork (that will then be promptly entered into the database by the clerk and filed into a cabinet where it will never be looked at again). Once you have presented at least two separate government issue documents to prove your identity, then you will be able to move forward in the process. Can't afford a passport and drivers license? Better hope your paper social security card doesn't end up in the wash and that your parents bothered to preserve your birth certificate! Because you can't simply get these docs in most states via electronic format. And the best part of it all is that each state has different procedures and different software to accomplish the same tasks. But no one thinks to try and unify the process so that transition is easier. Maybe this does not affect too many people because they live in the same state they were born in, but I have lived 5 different states, have had to take the written driving exam 3 times, have had to transfer title 4 times because a state will not register a car titled in another state, have had to file for taxes in 8 different jurisdictions (my latest move required me to pay state, county, city, and neighborhood 'luxury' taxes on both of my vehicles), and basically dealt with both extremely streamlined DMVs and extremely inefficient. The reason I rant is because through all of these experiences, the end result was the same: title and registration just to be legal to drive and park on the streets where I live.
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Jul 18, 2012 23:24
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Taerkar posted:More specifically if you Fed Ex something out to Ruralland, USA, they'll dump it off on the USPS to deliver the final bit. I ordered a game from Amazon once and UPS took it from their first distro center to the local post office and mailed it to me through USPS. It even said so on the online tracking. It was to an address on a street just off of loving Lake Shore Drive in Chicago.
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Jul 18, 2012 23:36
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Mr. Belding posted:Last time I went to the DMV I called ahead and it put me in the queue and texted me the approximate time I would be called. I scheduled my drive accordingly. I got stuck in traffic and it texted me that I was up, and if I needed five more minutes I should simply respond "More Time." The new system went in place about 2 months ago. I used to love our DMV system, with the texting in and reduced waiting but it's seriously hosed right now. Also, normal drivers license stuff is still OK, I believe. Only the vehicle registration part has been hosed over. Also, hello from Olathe.
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Jul 18, 2012 23:39
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I think USPS/UPS/FedEx (maybe not FedEx) will ship each others stuff to various points. There's already privatization in the USPS in that they will sometimes contract shipping mail longer distances.
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Jul 18, 2012 23:40
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Seriously though. The USPS is an independent agency. The government doesn't "run" it. (Mostly.) Pointing to anything the USPS does and saying it's an example of what the government does that is bad (or good, for that matter) is wrong.
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Jul 18, 2012 23:53
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I took my buddy at work over 3 hours to get his registration renewed down here in Wichita so I dunno maybe living somewhere with actual poor people has an effect?
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Jul 18, 2012 23:54
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lancemantis posted:I think USPS/UPS/FedEx (maybe not FedEx) will ship each others stuff to various points. There's already privatization in the USPS in that they will sometimes contract shipping mail longer distances. I understood it as they all work together sometimes and ship each others packages depending on who/ what was going where. All using the same planes and such to reduce costs. Also mt DMV in mildly rural WI, there is a front desk that you get in line for. You tell him what you are there for and he gives you all the paperwork you need and checks if you have all your important documents. Then he gives you a letter+number and you go work on paperwork until your letter+number comes up. It works incredibly well.
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Jul 19, 2012 00:09
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rscott posted:I took my buddy at work over 3 hours to get his registration renewed down here in Wichita so I dunno maybe living somewhere with actual poor people has an effect? Yeah, the State handles registration, that is the one that is screwed up. The county office for license issues has pretty normal wait times.
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Jul 19, 2012 00:15
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A high school friend who seems to have gone off-the-rails libertarian since graduating shared this on his facebook today: http://didntbuildthat.com/ My response: I'm sure glad the folks who are managing that Tumblr-based site invented Tumblr themselves, built their image editing and web browsing software from the ground up to upload it on the Internet they created from a computer that they hand-soldered and.. do you want me to go on? -- This is someone who yelled at me when I gave him crap for linking to an unbelievably bullshit "news" site, saying that he should know better than to trust biased sources or at least be more responsible and link to unbiased ones. It turned into an argument about drugs, somehow. We used to be really good friends, which is why I just gave him no-nonsense responses, but I'm nearing the point of severing. bairfanx fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 00:36
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A friend of mine has been posting a lot of "You didn't build that"/"rugged individualism" stuff over the last few days. It's gotten tiring typing out real replies that have gone ignored, so I've resorted to just posting this in response now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3ofKUP4k8
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Jul 19, 2012 00:57
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UnmaskedGremlin posted:The Govt did not sell me the phone system directly a small business in Prospect CT by the name of Mid-State Tele Data did, The Govt does not directly provide me phone lines it is a Corporation by the name of AT & T............. All the Government does is regulate and tax these businesses I would like to know if this guy knows what a "right of way" is.
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Jul 19, 2012 01:20
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