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Dominion posted:No, it's not endemic to warhammer, it's the same in every game ever, whether it's warhammer or magic or competitive bridge. People don't want to admit that they got beat despite playing their best, so there's always some other reason they lost. I don't think it's endemic to Warhammer exclusive of other nerdy hobbies but I think it's exacerbated in Warhammer because of the number of people who treat the game as a sort of large-scale roleplaying game. That said I think it's just one of those areas where it's likely that people don't want to admit to being bad because winning at this poo poo is one of the few high points in their lives when they get to feel like the big man; if they're losing it's someone else's fault for not playing properly. I've played truly relaxed gamers who'd take on anything and anyone with a smile even though they know from the outset they'll probably lose; the whiners tend to be the guys in the middle who're good enough to beat the chumps but don't have the nous to tackle anyone who knows what they're doing.
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Jul 20, 2012 23:24
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In my experience there's definitely a sense that some people feel they are almost entitled to win games because they've spent so much money on the hobby. I think the fact that they've made bad choices in their army building and have actually paid money in the process makes it even worse when the lose.
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Jul 21, 2012 00:03
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Hey guys I listed some stuff for sale in SA Mart: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3497045 Catachans, Cadians, a couple greater daemons, and a carnifex with free harpies!
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Jul 21, 2012 01:06
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I think another bit of entitlement has come from the many edition changes. Armies strengths in general come and go, and units can change drastically from one edition to another. Compare, say, Dark Reapers in 3rd Edition, where they were a powerhouse unit for a lot of players, to 5th (and 6th, probably) where they were complete garbage 90% of the time. People paid money for them when they were good, so clearly they should always be that good!
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Jul 21, 2012 03:11
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Is it just harder to get your hands on AoBR orks these days? I'm seeing sets of 10 boyz and 1 nob go for $22. I just got offered: 10 Aobr nobz and 40 AoBR orks -for- My 2 painted salamander Rhinos   My Salamander Dreadnought  5 tac terminators (1 with a flamer) The guy even said he loves the paint jobs and plays Salamanders. I feel like I'm getting ripped off, am I crazy?
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Jul 21, 2012 03:16
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That is a really dumb trade dude.
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Jul 21, 2012 03:19
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Ok thanks, I think I just needed to hear it from someone else.
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Jul 21, 2012 03:21
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Your list should have an exactly even distribution of each type of special, heavy weapon (Including heavy bolters!) and vehicles (You can settle for whirlwind, rhino, predator, landraider, landspeeder and then run out of FOC slots if you like) otherwise you're a cheesy ham ruining the game. Related, I'm thinking of some neat allies for my Lamenters. I'm using the BA codex and I want it to be able to deep strike or be a flyer but I've already got a separate guard list so I don't want to do Vendettas unless you've got a super sweet conversion idea. Any suggestions? Karandras fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 03:28
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Tequila Ranger posted:However there are a lot of lists that scream "MY OWNER IS (probably) A DOUCHE!" and I dont think you need me to list them for you. I'm a dumb mexican who can't type, so please do enlighten me with 3 or so different douche lists. Tailored lists don't count. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 21, 2012 03:47
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:If allies get it, then so do opposing players. Both are considered enemies, but the Ork KFF rules state "all units" within six inches. Agreed. I haven't played Orks in a long time and I had a Kan Wall list, which seems to not work as well in 6th. And Deffkoptas which again don't look that impressive. I revised the list taking your advice into account. I have to buy in to finish this list so I wanted to just make sure I wasn't loving up too bad. The Warboss is an old metal Thraka model, and two of the meganobs are old 2nd edition meganobs (I need to convert the third one). With the Dakkajet I don't really have points left over for Grots -- not going to take them away from boys and I had to drop a loota squad to get everything to fit. I'm going to run this list in a basic 1000 point fun game / tournament next week. Selections: HQ (115pts) Warboss (115pts) Bosspole (5pts), Cybork Body (10pts), Mega-Armour (40pts) Elites (270pts) Lootas (75pts) 5x Loota (75pts) Lootas (75pts) 5x Loota (75pts) Meganobz (120pts) Meganob (40pts) Twin-Linked Shoota Meganob (40pts) Twin-Linked Shoota Meganob (40pts) Twin-Linked Shoota Troops (480pts) Ork Boyz (240pts) 3x Big Shoota (15pts), 29x Boy (174pts) Nob (51pts) 'Eavy Armour (5pts), Bosspole (5pts), Power Klaw (25pts) Ork Boyz (240pts) 3x Big Shoota (15pts) 29x Boy (174pts) 29x Shootas Nob (51pts) 'Eavy Armour (5pts), Bosspole (5pts), Power Klaw (25pts) Fast Attack (135pts) Dakkajet 110 points Extra Shoota, Paint Job, Fighta Ace 25 points Verdugo fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 04:22
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I have a better idea than going on about douche lists. Let's look at pretty pictures instead.   
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Jul 21, 2012 04:28
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Wow. Using the 54mm Eisenhorn as a big statue in that third picture is awesome.
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Jul 21, 2012 04:33
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CaptainPete posted:We did. They weren't. We used the same dice. We were trying to figure it out and still have no idea what was going on. You and your friend don't understand sample size and probability.
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Jul 21, 2012 04:38
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Everything about those pictures owns.
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Jul 21, 2012 04:44
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Indolent Bastard posted:Now that WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) is out, What page is this on?
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Jul 21, 2012 04:52
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I think the whole WYSIWYG argument is based on it not being on any page. It doesn't explicitly state that its no longer a thing, but it also doesn't say that it is.
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Jul 21, 2012 04:54
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If it's not a rule in the rulebook, it's no longer a rule.
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Jul 21, 2012 04:58
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:If it's not a rule in the rulebook, it's no longer a rule. To some degree this is true. But the basic concept of "look at the model to see what it has" is still around, since that's how explicitly how power weapons work. Really, it doesnt matter. When you point to slugga boys and say they are shoota boys, some people are cool with it and some people are dicks about it, and which is which is gonna be the same in 6th as it was in 5th.
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Jul 21, 2012 05:05
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Dominion posted:To some degree this is true. But the basic concept of "look at the model to see what it has" is still around, since that's how explicitly how power weapons work. This. Plus if you don't do WYSIWYG - how the heck am I supposed to tell what you have? I think you will see it continue to be a rule used in tournaments, that's for sure. In casual play... does it really matter?
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Jul 21, 2012 05:40
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Karandras posted:Related, I'm thinking of some neat allies for my Lamenters. I'm using the BA codex and I want it to be able to deep strike or be a flyer but I've already got a separate guard list so I don't want to do Vendettas unless you've got a super sweet conversion idea. Any suggestions? As a fellow Lamenters player, you should know that no one likes the Lamenters, and the Lamenters hate themselves so much that they probably wouldn't allow anyone to hang out with them regardless. You could do the Badab war thing and ally in some Executioners/Mantis Warriors/Astral Claws, I guess? Take a Stormtalon and maybe some (slightly) cheaper Assault Terminators.
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Jul 21, 2012 05:50
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Fix posted:I have a better idea than going on about douche lists. Let's look at pretty pictures instead. Oh man...sell those to GW. Those are loving awesome.
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Jul 21, 2012 06:00
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Smegmalicious posted:Oh man...sell those to GW. Those are loving awesome. Not my pics.
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Jul 21, 2012 06:28
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Ghost Hand posted:
My friends and I have always been pretty loose with WYSIWYG, but it has to be reasonable. That dude in terminator armor is your lord? Okay, cool. Even if he's modeled with a storm bolter, you can say he's got a combi-flamer. It's when you get in to the whole 'everything looks almost exactly alike but has different equipment that I didn't put on the model' that it's just not okay. In bigger games, we use to get pretty harsh about it because, if there's 200+ models on the board, I need to be able to remember what your guys have without loving up.
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Jul 21, 2012 06:42
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Nephilm posted:I'm a dumb mexican who can't type, so please do enlighten me with 3 or so different douche lists. Tailored lists don't count. sorry puppetmaster I got other things to do
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Jul 21, 2012 07:28
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The more I hear about 2nd edition, the more I want to try and ebay a rulebook and play some. It sounds like the most broken, unbalanced, and crazy thing to be passed off as a game system, which is exactly why it sounds like it will be very entertaining.
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Jul 21, 2012 08:02
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kannonfodder posted:The more I hear about 2nd edition, the more I want to try and ebay a rulebook and play some. It sounds like the most broken, unbalanced, and crazy thing to be passed off as a game system, which is exactly why it sounds like it will be very entertaining. 2E had loads of good points, but it got bogged down by its own complexity and often devolved into a contest over who could bring the more blinged out HQ. Really, the best way to have fun with 2E 40K is to play Necromunda. The small forces make the level of detail manageable, and there's really no way to bring a 500 point superhero. Anyway, I got in my second game of 6E tonight. My buddy brought orks with necron allies, and I brought DE with eldar allies. We rolled big guns never tire, and the VPs for killing heavy choices helped me eek out a win after getting greedy and losing the baron and his remaining hellions by going after a ghost arc full of warriors. My razorwing did well, but limited time-on-table and maneuverability seemed to make up for how hard it was too hit. The two missile limit took away my favorite tactic of spamming four pie plates into the juiciest available infantry target, but the full S blasts helped me take out a command barge, so that's sort of a wash. The high point of the battle was when my buddy's necron overlord assaulted my farseer and pathfinders on the roof of a bastion and won, forcing them to retreat by jumping off the sides; on my turn, they rallied, assaulted the overlord and miraculously struck him down to retake the objective and give me the win.
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Jul 21, 2012 08:59
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kannonfodder posted:The more I hear about 2nd edition, the more I want to try and ebay a rulebook and play some. It sounds like the most broken, unbalanced, and crazy thing to be passed off as a game system, which is exactly why it sounds like it will be very entertaining. Yet another utterly broken thing in 2e was the grenade options. They meant you could do stuff like equip a biker sergeant with a virus grenade, charge him towards the enemy lines on turn one and chuck it. Every model it killed had a chance to explode from the virus and potentially infect others within the blast radius, who could also then explode. You could wipe out an ork army on turn 1 this way. Also vortex grenades were available as standard and were as insane as they are in Apocalypse.
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Jul 21, 2012 09:19
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Fil5000 posted:Yet another utterly broken thing in 2e was the grenade options. They meant you could do stuff like equip a biker sergeant with a virus grenade, charge him towards the enemy lines on turn one and chuck it. Every model it killed had a chance to explode from the virus and potentially infect others within the blast radius, who could also then explode. You could wipe out an ork army on turn 1 this way. Out of curiosity, have any of the old hats around here actually witnessed this thing play out, or was it the similar sort of killer potentiality that defines so much of the rules grousing nowadays? I bailed shortly after Rogue Trader and missed most of second and all of third. I remember the jump-pack vortex grenade killer combo. That was back when I was running Harlequins out of a painted up APC model from Aliens and making Flamers of Tzeentch out of dried rubber cement and rolling every single model up at random from the chaos charts.
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Jul 21, 2012 09:29
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Yeah, I am going to get real familiar with 6th real fast next week, as to practice for the tournament next Saturday, me and my mentor are going to run about 15 games over Monday and Tuesday, aiming at 25 minutes game lengths.
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Jul 21, 2012 09:32
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The Witch Hunters codex has this rule called "Martyrdom" wherein the player gains Faith points when a Faithful unit dies. Could this allow the player to gain Faith points beyond his initial quantity? Like, if he never uses a Faith power in the game and a Faithful unit dies?
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Jul 21, 2012 09:34
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Yes, but that codex is out of the game now, so it doesn't really matter.
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Jul 21, 2012 09:40
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What's the most current ruleset, then?
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Jul 21, 2012 09:47
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A list from a white dwarf published and abandoned so basically pirate it or play the book you want to play.
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Jul 21, 2012 09:49
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Sisters of Battle had a White Dwarf codex released for them about a year ago. I don't know if you can even still buy it? Most of the information is here: http://natfka.blogspot.com/2011/07/sisters-of-battle-information-lists.html
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Jul 21, 2012 09:50
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Fil5000 posted:Yet another utterly broken thing in 2e was the grenade options. They meant you could do stuff like equip a biker sergeant with a virus grenade, charge him towards the enemy lines on turn one and chuck it. Every model it killed had a chance to explode from the virus and potentially infect others within the blast radius, who could also then explode. You could wipe out an ork army on turn 1 this way. This game sounds infuriating and absolutely glorious.
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Jul 21, 2012 09:56
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Sisters of Battle had a White Dwarf codex released for them about a year ago. I don't know if you can even still buy it? Note: It is lovely for GW to sell models with these rules and not provide a link to them on their website.
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Jul 21, 2012 09:59
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Fil5000 posted:Yet another utterly broken thing in 2e was the grenade options. They meant you could do stuff like equip a biker sergeant with a virus grenade, charge him towards the enemy lines on turn one and chuck it. Every model it killed had a chance to explode from the virus and potentially infect others within the blast radius, who could also then explode. You could wipe out an ork army on turn 1 this way. Pierzak fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 09:59
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I also remember hearing something about an Ork (I think) weapon that was basically a giant rubber ball, that bounced around smashing into everything. It would hit a model, do damage, then scatter in another direction to do more damage, and if you scattered right, it would never stop until everything on the table was dead. Also, wasn't 2nd the edition where the right combo of Eldar powers meant your enemy never got to take a turn? This is all going off of memory from what I've read years ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.
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Jul 21, 2012 10:01
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Fix posted:Out of curiosity, have any of the old hats around here actually witnessed this thing play out, or was it the similar sort of killer potentiality that defines so much of the rules grousing nowadays? I bailed shortly after Rogue Trader and missed most of second and all of third. Yes, the virus grende and virus outbreak strategy card were broken. There was simply no way for IG, orks and if I remember correctly non aspect eldar to protect themselves from it while the rest of the armies were completely immune. You could try and space out everything to minimize the damage but that grenade was very likely to take a good chunk of your army away with 0 effort. Vortex grenades weren't bad at all, they were expensive, one use only and dangerous to the thrower as they stayed on the table and moved about and changed shape. Only bads took extremely blinged out HQs as they could be one-shotted by every heavy weapon the board. The current edition is much much worse than 2nd when it comes to complexity and being bogged down by complex and often conflicting rules. There's less cardboard on table now though, that's good. Having separate cards and blips for literally everything was a pain in the rear end. Pierzak posted:If you were playing orks and didn't take the vaccine, it was your own fault. cat with hands fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 10:08
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Pierzak posted:About the only armies vulnerable to virus grenades were the Guard-based ones (IG, chsos cultists, genestealer cultists WHERE TEH gently caress ARE MY GENESTEALER CULTS GW) and they had transports and tanks. If you were playing orks and didn't take the vaccine, it was your own fault. While this is true, it's still a dick move to include even the possibility of it happening. And I've never seen a virus grenade assault but I HAVE seen the bullshit that is a vortex grenade. 2e was pretty much "let's throw all these cool ideas in with no concern for balance!" and it was as terrible/awesome as that implies. Games took hours and hours and there were so many broken rules that they almost balanced out.
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Jul 21, 2012 10:11
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