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Snidesworth posted:Bestiary Well, that certainly sounds good; I'm not too worried about a lack of good Daemon stuff as I have the Deathwatch and Daemonhunter books for such things. The better Xeno generator is what I'm really looking forward to; now to wait for a month for it to come out on pdf 
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Jul 16, 2012 13:38
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Sounds like a good groundbased counterpart to the spacey goodness of Battlefleet Koronus. I shall pick it up as soon as I have the money.
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Jul 16, 2012 13:51
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I kind of don't like how often stuff on daemons has tended towards just rehashing the baseline lesser, beasts, and Greater Daemons of each Chaos God in the more recent FFG releases. They're fine in their own right and would have to be there even if they weren't, it's just that expanding the universe is what I find interesting about DH/etc and nothing feels less like "chaos" than every daemon ever seemingly being a rank-and-file example of one of a set number of ranks in the army of one of the precisely four gods of chaos.
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Jul 16, 2012 15:46
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That's my thinking as well. Part of why I enjoyed Disciples of the Dark Gods and Creatures Anathema so much when they came out was that they generally steered clear of the generic daemons, instead spending time developing individual groups or detailing new, unusual and often unaligned entities. Even the Nurgle group in DotG was given a personal touch, despite being fairly standard in how they worked. The Koronus Bestiary does have a section where it discusses what the daemonic is, saying how no two daemons should ever be the same and how they are even more unknowable than xenos are, only to go on and trot out the same old faces we've seen before. I know them and my players, for the most part, know them as well.
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Jul 16, 2012 16:06
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I'm curious about how many people are playing with which actual ruleset/book. It sounds like a lot of people are using the Black Crusade combat rules, but how about the rest of the game framework? I ask because we are using Dark Heresy, and the economic structure just seems terrible to me. Basically there doesn't seem to be any possible way for the Acolytes income to cover their needs, even if they sleep under an overpass and eat gruel. Is anyone using the basic DH system? If so, how do you deal with this? I have basically been letting them do mission-specific requisitions and requests because otherwise it seems like every story mission would be preceded by two money-making schemes. I am really tempted to just abandon it and try switching over to either the Rogue Trader or Black Crusade versions. They might need a little work, but tracking thrones seems pretty goofy.
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Jul 16, 2012 17:59
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If you've got the Only War beta rules, people have done house-ruled "Specialties" for the various Dark Heresy character types. Toss out keeping track of individual Scints/Thrones for a version of the Profit Factor/Honor/Infamy/Logistics mechanic and you'd be good to go. I really like how across various versions they've slowly condensed the skill lists down to something more reasonable.
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Jul 16, 2012 18:09
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I've been updating the rules my group plays with as each core game comes out. With a couple of exceptions they've done nothing but improve the game. Skill bloat being cut down on was a big deal, crappy and badly worded talents and actions were made better and, as of Only War, there's a classless advance system which isn't hooked into the Chaos Gods. I'd definitely replace the Dark Heresy currency system with something else, or at least rework the cost of some basic stuff into something more reasonable. Tracking individual coins is tedious as all hell, especially when you have to work keeping the cell fed into the weekly budget.
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Jul 16, 2012 19:28
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Hodgepodge posted:Yeah. The Necrons now turned on the C'Tan shortly after they won their war with the Old Ones and either killed them or shattered them into controllable "fragments" when possible. The fragments aren't as god-like as the C'Tan were and don't have enough of their original essence to be truly self-aware, but like the Avatars of Khaine they are certainly able to bring the wrath of a god onto the battlefield. God I have been out of the loop on this one. So whats sort of "happening" in the present day of 40k? Are the necrons gone? Have tyranids stopped being murder bugs and started having dinner parties?
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Jul 17, 2012 08:54
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Josef bugman posted:God I have been out of the loop on this one. So whats sort of "happening" in the present day of 40k? Are the necrons gone? Have tyranids stopped being murder bugs and started having dinner parties? Naw. Necrons having personalities is the biggest new thing. And I really want to use them now if I get around to running Deathwatch myself. I know that the Jericho Reach has a gigantic Tyranid thing going on, but I just can't find anything compelling there. They exist to kill/get killed by. Coming up with combat strategies for taking them out is fine a few times, but they're just so damned tedious.
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Jul 17, 2012 10:52
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Mazed posted:Naw. Necrons having personalities is the biggest new thing. And I really want to use them now if I get around to running Deathwatch myself. use them to gently caress with other groups. They are good for interrupting your fight with a tau or rebel guardsmen group or w/e
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Jul 17, 2012 11:01
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Mazed posted:Naw. Necrons having personalities is the biggest new thing. It's actually a great retcon since it doesn't negate any of the previously established material.
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Jul 17, 2012 12:08
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The new Necron stuff is pretty great because it basically just owns up to them being Mummies in Space and goes whole hog with it in the best way. If you want to play emotionless murderbots you can still do that, but being able to play ancient and crazy robots is pretty great. Plus for stuff like narrative campaigns (and RPGs, of course) it makes them much more useful and interesting as adversaries.
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Jul 17, 2012 14:39
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The fact that it doesn't completely negate the old Necron themes but now allows for more complex plots involving them is what makes the changes so positive, in terms of roleplay, and why they could make for such a great Xenos adversary in a Deathwatch game. I'm looking forward to seeing what the Outer Reach book does with them. For my part, I'm personally envisioning a scenario where the Space Marines get mixed up in a situation that involves the Necrons and the heretical forgeworld Samech. There's the old thing about the C'tan Void Dragon being the true form of the Omnissiah, and when you throw in some Chaos, the Mechanicus, and a bunch of creepy undead aliens whose relation to said entity is a more complicated affair than previously thought, this could be some great material for the Deathwatch to chew on.
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Jul 17, 2012 15:04
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So this Sunday I played a game of Black Crusade, but running the players through the classic Paranoia module "Stealth Train." It went about as well as you can expect.
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Jul 18, 2012 03:33
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Assumethisisreal posted:So this Sunday I played a game of Black Crusade, but running the players through the classic Paranoia module "Stealth Train." It went about as well as you can expect. That was an entertaining read, let us know how it goes!
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Jul 18, 2012 11:02
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That was an absolutely hilarious read. That Heretek player deserves a Gold
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Jul 18, 2012 12:46
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Assumethisisreal posted:So this Sunday I played a game of Black Crusade, but running the players through the classic Paranoia module "Stealth Train." It went about as well as you can expect. I knew what was coming when those civilians showed up and I still laughed my rear end off. I'm stealing this idea and any more ideas you're likely to have in the future.
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Jul 18, 2012 15:26
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Wonder what other games you could run in the 40K RPG system 
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Jul 18, 2012 15:49
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Oooh! Oooh! I know! Maid RPG! Fair warning, there's a lot of creepy anime bullshit written into it, but it's easy enough to throw that stuff out.
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Jul 18, 2012 16:04
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Pththya-lyi posted:Oooh! Oooh! I know! Maid RPG! Fair warning, there's a lot of creepy anime bullshit written into it, but it's easy enough to throw that stuff out.  “Am I kawaii? Uguu~"
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Jul 18, 2012 16:10
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Pththya-lyi posted:Oooh! Oooh! I know! Maid RPG! Fair warning, there's a lot of creepy anime bullshit written into it, but it's easy enough to throw that stuff out. Sorry, I've already done this  Albeit with a DH campaign using Maid rules, but same difference.
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Jul 18, 2012 16:31
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homerlaw posted:
  Is tha- No gently caress it I don't want to know
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Jul 18, 2012 17:31
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homerlaw posted:
This is great. Anyway, glad you guys enjoyed it. I'll be running a few more Paranoia style games this summer, I'll be sure to share them when I do. The next one will probably be about letting the newly announced Warchief deal with having to placate rival factions under his command, in situations where you can't make everyone happy, and especially in which having terminator armor and quad-linked rocket launchers is completely unhelpful.
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Jul 18, 2012 19:09
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CommissarMega posted:Sorry, I've already done this Tell me more.
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Jul 23, 2012 03:59
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Pththya-lyi posted:Tell me more. It started off with our 800-year old inquisitor being turned into a little girl thanks to CHAOS. This was distressing, because our Inquisitor didn't want to relive his childhood, and secondly because yes, she had been a dude. So her (his?) faithful Acolytes Psyker-chan, Techpriest-chan (me), Scum-chan and... sigh, Cata-chan (yes, he went there) set off on a long and perilous quest to make their Inquisitor older (dude status was optional, she just didn't want to go through puberty). Highlights include: -The vast majority of Gellar fields on our ship failing, so everyone assembled at the top of the ship, and I turned up the grav-generators, flattening the infested parts of the ship into one single board. We then proceeded to surf that ship within Cata-chan's Mazinger Z Titan around on adventures. -'Seducing' an Eldar. Did you know that Eldar mating rituals consist entirely of ear-massaging? And that a skilled Techpriest can construct an automatic ear massager? Sure, it was tech-heresy, but we pretty much considered ourselves radicals for making a space surfboard. -Using the knowledge of the Black Library to wake the Emperor up using a machine devised by pre-Fall Eldar devoted to the path of Rock, and then proceeded to ride our 16km-long Imperial Surfboardius into the heart of the Warp and ram into the Chaos Gods, making a Chaos Kebab. -Tea with Kharn the Betrayer, who became the new Blood God. I can't remember how, but we got him hitched to Isha, who ditched the rest of the Eldar Pantheon because they left her with Nurgle. Cata-chan ended up getting hitched to our Inquisitor, our Psyker became the new Tzeentch, and my Techpriest ended up having a very open relationship with the contents of the space hulk that had once been the entire Chaos fleet. GOOD END
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Jul 23, 2012 05:34
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I may get the opportunity to run a DH game, which would be a first for me. Is there a list of changes I can make to the rules to bring them more in line with the improved BC system? I'm definitely making shooting +10/0/-10 instead of 0/+10/+20, but is there anything else I should do? Nobody involved has played DH before, except me on PBP.
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Jul 23, 2012 14:40
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I would also use the modified Righteous Fury rule from Black Crusade instead of the one in DH basic. Although it's called something else in BC, anyway. Basically instead of having 10s for damage explode into additional damage (and potentially do that endlessly) they either give you one point of automatic damage to the enemy (if you would have failed to exceed their Toughness+Armor) or you roll a d5 on the crit chart (if you did damage with the attack). I prefer this because it makes Righteous Fury more predictable, and also increases the amount of times you actually use the crit effects. The other thing I would suggest (mentioned earlier) is that I would throw out the Dark Heresy economic system, because it is dumb and makes no sense. I would replace it with the one from Rogue Trader, I think, unless you want to wrangle a Reputation stat for DH (possible). You can also decide to just use the DH system, but be prepared to either vastly increase your player's income or allow them to operate on some sort of requisition system. Note this applies to games where you are doing a lot of walking and talking, not ones where you are digging through space hulks.
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Jul 23, 2012 14:52
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Ashcans posted:The other thing I would suggest (mentioned earlier) is that I would throw out the Dark Heresy economic system, because it is dumb and makes no sense. I would replace it with the one from Rogue Trader, I think, unless you want to wrangle a Reputation stat for DH (possible). You can also decide to just use the DH system, but be prepared to either vastly increase your player's income or allow them to operate on some sort of requisition system. Note this applies to games where you are doing a lot of walking and talking, not ones where you are digging through space hulks. I personally love the income system your a pack of nobodies with no equipment and nothing to count on but yourselves. Your paid very little (mostly during your mission's downtime) and need to scavenge what you can to keep going. Nothing is more awesome than having an acoylte contemplate shooting the alien monster eating his leg because of the cost of that bolt pistol ammunition. Clanpot Shake posted:I may get the opportunity to run a DH game, which would be a first for me. Is there a list of changes I can make to the rules to bring them more in line with the improved BC system? I'm definitely making shooting +10/0/-10 instead of 0/+10/+20, but is there anything else I should do? Nobody involved has played DH before, except me on PBP. I recommend running the game as normal to begin with rather than taking the advice of people with different playstyles, likes and dislikes into how your game works. Most of these changes have a variety of cascading changes to the game which often then creates different house rules. Makes sense if your group works in a certain way, is crazy if yours doesnt. Take for example the +10/0/-10 shooting changes. What is does is make accurate rifles the key to Dark Heresy gameplay, without making further changes everyone wants to buy one and aim for a +30 to hit (+10 if your in 70m ranged combat). This combined total of +40 for anyone who can use basic SP weapons makes combat VERY different (your rank 1 assassin for example is going to need about 80 or less to hit). A problem not obvious at first if your just trying to make things a little more damage-oriented rather than hit-oriented but you cause other problems to exist. Your group will find what works and doesn't work for it, rather than what other people like. kingcom fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jul 23, 2012 |
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Jul 23, 2012 15:30
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I realize that this is possibly the dumbest question in the history of dumb questions, but could someone explain how death works in BC? I get that once your wounds drop below 0, you start taking critical damage and a d10 roll on the critical hit chart, but is there ever a point where you just outright die? I must not be looking in the right section or am just glossing over where they say that.
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Jul 23, 2012 16:19
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kingcom posted:I personally love the income system your a pack of nobodies with no equipment and nothing to count on but yourselves. Your paid very little (mostly during your mission's downtime) and need to scavenge what you can to keep going. Nothing is more awesome than having an acoylte contemplate shooting the alien monster eating his leg because of the cost of that bolt pistol ammunition.
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Jul 23, 2012 16:27
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kingcom posted:I personally love the income system your a pack of nobodies with no equipment and nothing to count on but yourselves. Your paid very little (mostly during your mission's downtime) and need to scavenge what you can to keep going. Nothing is more awesome than having an acoylte contemplate shooting the alien monster eating his leg because of the cost of that bolt pistol ammunition. I think that resource scarcity adds a lot to a survival/horror game, but the basic layout of Dark Heresy pushes that to the extreme. It's kind of cool if your characters have to struggle and improvise to get through tough situations, its another when they don't have enough resources to survive their downtime. I'd rather my players were pursuing the story than struggling with abject poverty. Olanphonia posted:I realize that this is possibly the dumbest question in the history of dumb questions, but could someone explain how death works in BC? I get that once your wounds drop below 0, you start taking critical damage and a d10 roll on the critical hit chart, but is there ever a point where you just outright die? The higher results on the criticals chart include death (like when your head explodes from energy damage). So basically you keep rolling critical effects until one of them kills you, although its very possible that before you actually get a death effect a character will be so crippled and penalized you may as well permit a coup de grace. For unnamed enemies/mooks, its usually acceptable to just call them dead when they drop below 0 wounds.
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Jul 23, 2012 16:42
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Ashcans posted:The higher results on the criticals chart include death (like when your head explodes from energy damage). So basically you keep rolling critical effects until one of them kills you, although its very possible that before you actually get a death effect a character will be so crippled and penalized you may as well permit a coup de grace. For unnamed enemies/mooks, its usually acceptable to just call them dead when they drop below 0 wounds. Alright, I was just unsure if there was something like in GURPS where you just flat out die if you drop to a specific negative amount. Thanks!
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Jul 23, 2012 17:07
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I thought when you took damage in excess of your Wounds, that was critical damage. If you have 0 wounds and take 5 damage, you now have 5 Critical damage, and check the relevant table for the damage type and apply that. If you take another 3 damage, you now check the 8 entry for the table.
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Jul 23, 2012 17:26
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You are totally right. I got myself turned around because I was also thinking about the RF effects in BC (which are a roll on the Crit chart).  I use sudden death for my mooks and our games are pretty combat-light so we haven't had to deal with crits and death much.
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Jul 23, 2012 17:43
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Ashcans posted:I think that resource scarcity adds a lot to a survival/horror game, but the basic layout of Dark Heresy pushes that to the extreme. It's kind of cool if your characters have to struggle and improvise to get through tough situations, its another when they don't have enough resources to survive their downtime. I'd rather my players were pursuing the story than struggling with abject poverty. The way I get around this is to not bother with day-to-day living expenses. Sure, the books cover the cost of meals, etc. but I don't believe it adds anything to the game when you have to micromanage during downtime. Instead, players can focus on saving up their money for what they need/want. Sure, I might throw a situation at them that can be solved with the application with money, but at least it's contributing to the story in some way.
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Jul 24, 2012 01:16
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is there anyway to make a viable unarmed/martial arts character in Black Crusade? or in any gameline? i just really like the idea of lonely spacefarer, travelling the galaxy to master the art of the fist, but it seems very limited combat wise.
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Jul 24, 2012 02:32
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Completely unarmed combat doesn't have a lot of mechanical support in all the lines. Powerfists on the other hand....
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Jul 24, 2012 02:54
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Dark Heresy has the Hammerfist psychic power and allows you to be Alex Mercer from prototype. In Black Crusade, your main support comes from being a space marine and starting with power armour and a boatload of Unnatural Strength and Toughness, but then you'd be outclassed by other marines who use those abilities to carry around autocannons and the like.
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Jul 24, 2012 12:31
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Clanpot Shake posted:Single shot still can only hit once, and with the crit effects Ashcans suggested it still makes single shot have lower potential damage than full auto. Plus, hitting is satisfying, so I don't see too much of a problem having 4/5 chance to hit for someone built for shooting. Actually your ignoring the Accurate weapon Quality which makes these guns still do ungodly amounts of damage. Crits we're never the issue, the accurate let you keep up with full auto weapons. You may want that 4/5 chance to hit but the type of games where everyone can murder eachother with a seconds notice isnt the type of horror games I like to run. Thats why I advised experiencing it first amongst your group before making changes. The game system really doesnt work well with slugfests, nobody has the health and if people are loaded with armour you are simply making weapons more and more meaningless. You see it go out of control with games like Deathwatch where the combat just gets very wonky very quickly. Black Crusade tried to take it in a different approach but ends up with an entirely new set of problems it needs to deal with but thats getting away from the point. I'm not saying you cant do it but you need to be aware of all the cascading effects and subsequent changes that take place in merging elements of these radically different systems. You take the same character from Dark Heresy and place them into Black Crusade, I suddenly stop playing it safe and start charging out and attacking people with confidence. Sure they go of the same basic math system but the way everything fits together create different play experiences. Just be aware of that when you start changing things. SleazyBakeOven posted:is there anyway to make a viable unarmed/martial arts character in Black Crusade? or in any gameline? i just really like the idea of lonely spacefarer, travelling the galaxy to master the art of the fist, but it seems very limited combat wise. Outside of being a Sorceror of Tzeench (all the Space Marine bonuses and the ability to give more mutations to yourself from certain powers like natural weapons and extra arms, legs, wings, unnatural stats) or waiting until you get a Power Fist/Lightening Claw etc your outta luck. Monks dont really live long enough in the 41st millenium to justify its training. Would be interesting to make a build for it though... MaliciousOnion posted:The way I get around this is to not bother with day-to-day living expenses. Sure, the books cover the cost of meals, etc. but I don't believe it adds anything to the game when you have to micromanage during downtime. Instead, players can focus on saving up their money for what they need/want. Sure, I might throw a situation at them that can be solved with the application with money, but at least it's contributing to the story in some way. See I have their Inquisitor providing a safe house for their activities, they might get some supplies/equipment based upon their success on the previous mission or threats in their new mission but mostly on their own. I agree that the monthly income is their spending money not their living allowance but then again, this all depends on the amount of looting your players do to get by. kingcom fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 13:28
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There is an Unarmed line of Talents in Rogue Trader. I think they max out at allowing Unarmed attacks to not be primitive. That isn't all that spectacular in comparison to an actual weapon, but in theory it could allow you to punch through a tank.
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Jul 24, 2012 13:32
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