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Mill Village posted:Serious or not, FF9 is still far too linear to be considered "gameplay-focused" when it basically has the same gameplay structure as the previous PS1 FF games. I don't know why it gets a free pass on that. Well who said it's gameplay focused? I meant that the way it builds its world and the interactions the player has with it are really self-aware about the fact that it's a video game, not that it's your Lord And Master Super Strategic And Ultra Cerebral Battle System FF13 or whatever. There's more than one layer of player interaction, and it doesn't have to have a reactionary output.
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Jul 27, 2012 19:54
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Mill Village posted:Serious or not, FF9 is still far too linear to be considered "gameplay-focused" when it basically has the same gameplay structure as the previous PS1 FF games. I don't know why it gets a free pass on that. Linearity and gameplay-focused are not mutually exclusive. Super Mario Bros. is a gameplay-focused game which is practically the definition of linear. And FFIX isn't even all that linear compared to games in the series like X or XIII; there's plenty of exploring and sidequests to do throughout the whole thing.
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Jul 27, 2012 19:55
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The White Dragon posted:Oh, it certainly can, but it has to execute them differently, and a lot of the games that take themselves overly seriously miss the part where they're games--that is to say, interactive media--and they often fail to implement even the tiniest counterweights to their gravity. This doesn't necessarily apply to overly-wacky games, though, because those tend not to have a story to speak of to need a serious counterbalance to their monkeycheese. Well, this runs into the problem that there is no generally accepted way to approach games. They're such a wide and varied genre that it's nearly impossible to make something that works. What is too serious for some is too silly for others, and with video games that is twice as hard because you have to balance mechanics with the intentional ignorance of the disconnect between mechanics and story, and what people can and can't accept varies hugely. (See something like Uncharted where Drake's mass murder of enemies can completely throw certain people off and others don't even flinch at it.) Like for FF9, it worked well enough for me, but I know other people who found the structure and design absolutely impossible to accept. It felt too silly/ridiculous for the serious moments and too serious for the silly moments. It's a hard balance to mix. Likewise, the SMT games feel if anything too silly for their subject matter to me, not too serious. (Which, to be honest, is why I like them. The humor offsets the seriousness to me and the ones that are too serious are the ones I like the least.) Mill Village posted:Serious or not, FF9 is still far too linear to be considered "gameplay-focused" when it basically has the same gameplay structure as the previous PS1 FF games. I don't know why it gets a free pass on that. Well, I'm not really giving it a pass, just trying to add my own interpretation of it.
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Jul 27, 2012 19:57
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ImpAtom posted:(Which, to be honest, is why I like them. The humor offsets the seriousness to me and the ones that are too serious are the ones I like the least.) Huh, they actually have silly entries? I played Devil Survivor and, a long time ago, Revelations and that poo poo was so serious and sanctimonious and self-important that I swore it off.
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Jul 27, 2012 20:15
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I played half of VI and just kind of gave up on it. It was an alright game and all, but I just could not get into it. I realize the second half of the game has Celes in a more prominent role, but I don't see how anyone could say Terra is not the main character. If anything, she just shares the role with Celes.
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Jul 27, 2012 20:59
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FFIX having 'too many cutscenes' is not a bad thing when they are all totally awesome.
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Jul 27, 2012 21:13
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Terra's probably one of the worse protagonists, to be honest, but it's much easier to ignore that because of the game's ensemble nature. Even though Terra's a rather flat character who seems too bland to really have emotions, there's so many other characters that actually get some good development that are genuinely interesting. It probably also helps that gameplay-wise Terra's one of the most useful, between learning magic naturally, having a pretty drat nifty secondary ability, and having access to the game's strongest equipment. Between all that, it's easier to ignore Terra in favor of the rest of the game.ImpAtom posted:If Terra was in a voice acted game people would hate her. That's basically all there is to it. (And people did in fact start complaining about Terra in Dissidia!) The only reason she gets a pass is because she came from a time before voice acting. This is also a big factor, I'd imagine, though not the only one. She'd be a lot more grating, but the structure of FF6 would also make her much more forgettable, especially in the second half of the game when you don't have to deal with her as much.
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Jul 27, 2012 21:15
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ImpAtom posted:She turns into a pseudo-naked pink furry. So does Zidane 
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Jul 27, 2012 21:40
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The White Dragon posted:Huh, they actually have silly entries? I played Devil Survivor and, a long time ago, Revelations and that poo poo was so serious and sanctimonious and self-important that I swore it off. You've obviously never seen Mara before.
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Jul 27, 2012 21:42
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The White Dragon posted:Huh, they actually have silly entries? I played Devil Survivor and, a long time ago, Revelations and that poo poo was so serious and sanctimonious and self-important that I swore it off. Yes, the tones are pretty different. Each game in the franchise approaches it pretty differently. Persona 4 is basically Scooby Doo: The Anime while Persona 3 is a lengthy story about death and dying as told through the lens of cartoon high schoolers and a stupid robot. Devil Survivor 2 is significantly more goofy-rear end than DS1 even despite being a direct sequel (game-wise, not story-wise). Even the ones that take it serious take it serious in different ways. Almost all of them are post-apocalyptic but in different ways. Nocturne is very subdued and atmospheric with a minimal amount of cutscenes in comparison to Devil Survivor's Tons O' Fuckin' Talking. It's sort of like FF that way, only instead of Cid and Chocobos reoccurring, it's religious imagery and apocalypses. A lot of them take themselves semi-seriousl. This is not really a game that is unwilling to admit it's silly as poo poo. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jul 27, 2012 |
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Jul 27, 2012 21:57
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The White Dragon posted:Huh, they actually have silly entries? I played Devil Survivor and, a long time ago, Revelations and that poo poo was so serious and sanctimonious and self-important that I swore it off. Imagine if the only two Final Fantasy games you ever played were FF 8 and Dirge of Cerberus. You'd swear that poo poo off too.
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Jul 27, 2012 22:06
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Moldy Taxes posted:Ultros and Typhon make for a pretty interesting fight, if only because it's downright weird giving Ultros a voice. Only if you get Hyadain to do Ultros voice. Tako tako! http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...-FlinKkNj5ktuwA
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Jul 27, 2012 22:20
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I think the only Final Fantasy game that I haven't seen people in this topic hate is 5. It's the only SNES one I haven't finished. It just gets so grindy that it never holds my interest, and I don't like the huge amount of job options and cool skills you get yet you aren't allowed or encouraged to use more than like 2 at once, as you have like 2 open slots and 1-2 of them have a required choice. So there  ImpAtom posted:She's wishy-washy and lacking in self-confidence and overly-emotional. She spends large chunks of the game unavailable due to self-confidence problems even. She has amazing superpowers and talks about how much they suck and has bizarre discussions about her capacity to love. She turns into a pseudo-naked pink furry. Her plot ends extremely late in the game despite starting at the very beginning and so her development is slower than literally any other character in the game. She is like a giant beacon for poo poo people would hate in any modern game. The problem is that unlike Cloud or Motherfucking Squall is that her  -ness is actually justified. Cloud and Sqall are kind of spoiled, privileged brats that don't have any real conflict in their life previous to their whining. Terra doesn't even know if she's human, or what that really means, or if she is capable of the emotions she sees others express. There is no other being like her in the entire world and is completely alone and has no reference or community to look to to help her understand herself and people like her.It's interesting to see people's reactions to her as I think it belies the kind of person they are with regards to how sympathetic they are towards--or are themselves--people who have to deal with being a minority, or outcast in some way. I know as a kid I thought she was kind of emo and the "can I really love??" thing silly, but then I grew up and realized that that's an actual thing people deal with when they're non-normative in any way. Terra was a helpful and interesting character for, for instance, many LGBT kids in the 90s.
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Jul 27, 2012 23:09
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Boten Anna posted:Cloud and Sqall are kind of spoiled, privileged brats that don't have any real conflict in their life previous to their whining. Cloud doesn't actually whine though. Like at all, at least while he's in his Super Soldier persona. He gets angsty once it is revealed that he isn't a privileged super soldier, he is a loser washout whose entire town (including his mother) were murdered by the man he idolized and then the best friend he also idolized was shot to death in front of him after he was experimented on by a mad scientist for 4 years. The girl he liked was also murdered in front of his eyes while he was helpless to protect her. That's a pretty god damned good reason to get a bit angsty. Like I said, it's about execution. Terra is well-executed and so the fact that she's got a backstory and personality that would drive people batshit isn't as apparent. The other half is voice acting, because a lot of her lines would be a lot worse with voice acting. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jul 27, 2012 |
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Jul 27, 2012 23:12
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ImpAtom posted:That's a pretty god damned good reason to get a bit angsty. Yeah, Cloud basically has PTSD. And that sort of concept is pretty integral to the overall character development and thematic purpose in FF7. It's a game about a bunch of sad-rear end people who feel like failures other than Aeris, which is why she has to die. I honestly think it's part of why the game struck a chord with a lot of nerdy young dudes. They should just write "FLOWERS CAN BLOOM, EVEN IN MIDGAR" on the cover, because a lot of people somehow seem to miss this. And I really don't think of Terra as a typical RPG protagonist anyway because FF6 really isn't a typical RPG; the characters aren't really supposed to have complex inner lives, they're archetypes and unlike a lot of 16-bit era RPGs the broad strokes are intentional. That and it's possible to beat the game without her even being with the party for over half of it. Baku fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jul 27, 2012 |
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Jul 27, 2012 23:25
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ImpAtom posted:Cloud doesn't actually whine though. Like at all, at least while he's in his Super Soldier persona. I didn't go into it in detail because it was a side thing but I personally don't find Cloud intolerable at all, and most of my criticism is really aimed at Squall, who is a Total gently caress.
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Jul 27, 2012 23:43
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Actually managed to find a copy of FFVI advance in my local Vintage Stock. I overpaid a bit for it, but it's worth not having to deal with PayPal and shipping and whatnot from an eBay seller. Any spoiler free advice for a first time FFVI player? I assume "try to level up everyone a bit" is a fair piece of advice.
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Jul 27, 2012 23:54
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ImpAtom posted:Cloud doesn't actually whine though. Like at all, at least while he's in his Super Soldier persona. People tend to forget what Final Fantasy 7 Cloud was like since EVERYTHING Square-Enix has put him in since then has portrayed him as basically Squall with a stupider haircut and a slightly less stupid oversized sword.
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Jul 28, 2012 00:04
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ImpAtom posted:Like I said, it's about execution. Terra is well-executed and so the fact that she's got a backstory and personality that would drive people batshit isn't as apparent. The other half is voice acting, because a lot of her lines would be a lot worse with voice acting. I think it's a combination of her voice acting and the limitations of FFVI's sprite work. The body language in FFVI ("looking down at the ground when you're sad") is much more tolerable than her body language in Dissidia.
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Jul 28, 2012 00:08
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jivjov posted:Actually managed to find a copy of FFVI advance in my local Vintage Stock. I overpaid a bit for it, but it's worth not having to deal with PayPal and shipping and whatnot from an eBay seller. Any spoiler free advice for a first time FFVI player? I assume "try to level up everyone a bit" is a fair piece of advice. For the first half of the game, Edgar's Tools are indispensable. Don't forget to get the Chainsaw from Zozo; you have to solve a brief puzzle to get it, but it's worth it. The Sprint Shoes can be found in South Figaro, which you should equip immediately. They increase your walking speed. Seriously, you should never not have Sprint Shoes equipped. Cyan and Gau have interesting play styles, although they're not very effective in battle, so don't feel too bad about using them a couple times then benching them. Don't worry too much about filling up your list of spells, certainly not for everybody. The basic attack and healing spells should be enough, especially if you give them first to Terra, Celes, and Relm. When Shadow is in your party, use tents and sleep at inns in order to see some of his dreams. Mog is an optional character, but you should definitely get him. He can be found in Narshe, after some plot has happened. Take him around the world in order to fill up his Dance list. Later on, back in Narshe again, search the wall behind where Mog was standing, in order to get the Moogle Charm. It makes it so that you don't fight random encounters, which is a welcome relief. Hedera Helix fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jul 28, 2012 |
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Jul 28, 2012 00:13
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TurnipFritter posted:I think it's a combination of her voice acting and the limitations of FFVI's sprite work. The body language in FFVI ("looking down at the ground when you're sad") is much more tolerable than her body language in Dissidia. It was pretty lame that they had Terra all  throughout the whole thing. It's been a long time since I played VI but she got it together near the end right? I was kinda hoping she'd show that. At least a little.
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Jul 28, 2012 00:19
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jivjov posted:Actually managed to find a copy of FFVI advance in my local Vintage Stock. I overpaid a bit for it, but it's worth not having to deal with PayPal and shipping and whatnot from an eBay seller. Any spoiler free advice for a first time FFVI player? I assume "try to level up everyone a bit" is a fair piece of advice. I'd advise against trying to go out of your way to grind levels at the very start. Wait until you get magicite to work with, because they can give various stat boosts when the character levels up. TurnipFritter posted:The body language in FFVI ("looking down at the ground when you're sad") is much more tolerable than her body language in Dissidia. As much as I liked her FFVI incarnation, I find her pretty insufferable in Dissidia for this reason. Every gesture she makes is so...listless. I know it fits with the how they portray her in that, but...yeah. Even when she confronts Kefka at the very end, she still sounds and acts so forcelessly.
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Jul 28, 2012 00:21
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Dissidia Terra is intolerable. I mean, it's fine if she's meant to be somewhat emotionally damaged and insecure - but the execution in Dissidia and Duodecim is hair-pullingly dumb. If they could just adjust her personality to move away from the "kyaa I don't want to hurt you I'm so messed up let me curl into a ball right here  " stupidity, it wouldn't be so bad.Gaseous Snake posted:It was pretty lame that they had Terra all Ostensibly DFF has all the characters taken out from some random point in their timeline, so it could be before that. But it's still dumb. Anyway let's relax with some Battle on the Big Bridge.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxllTHj5zRI Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jul 28, 2012 |
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Jul 28, 2012 00:21
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jivjov posted:Actually managed to find a copy of FFVI advance in my local Vintage Stock. I overpaid a bit for it, but it's worth not having to deal with PayPal and shipping and whatnot from an eBay seller. Any spoiler free advice for a first time FFVI player? I assume "try to level up everyone a bit" is a fair piece of advice. http://www.beforeiplay.com/index.php?title=Final_Fantasy_6 Couple very minor spoilers there if you consider party member names spoilers. Other than that its pretty solid overall advice and it covers most of the important missables, the most important being the one where it mentions waiting during a specific event. Don't worry about the min/max advice since the game is pretty easy overall unless the gba version added dungeons where it's important. Only things it doesn't mention that come to mind: -There are 2 hidden characters in the second part of the game. -At one point late in the game you return to the first town and have a choice between 2 people on top of the mountain and one of them is required for the first hidden character. It's pretty obvious when you get there which one it is and if you don't pick him all you get is an accessory that is easy to get elsewhere. -06:10:50 Keep that in mind if you want to avoid the most annoying puzzle in the game. -I apparently missed this in every playthrough of the game I did as a kid but the second hidden character can apparently equip other characters abilities. Was this just added in the gba version?
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Jul 28, 2012 00:30
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The most important thing is during a particular dungeon about halfway through the game. After you fight a boss that has a different boss music theme, you'll have a major story scene, and then have to escape the dungeon with a timer counting down. When you reach the end of the dungeon and are given the choice to escape, wait instead. Wait until 4 seconds or so, and then everything will play out from there. You'll miss out on something important if you don't do this. Hope that's both vague and helpful enough.
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Jul 28, 2012 00:40
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ImpAtom posted:He gets angsty once it is revealed that he isn't a privileged super soldier, he is a loser washout whose entire town (including his mother) were murdered by the man he idolized and then the best friend he also idolized was shot to death in front of him after he was experimented on by a mad scientist for 4 years. The girl he liked was also murdered in front of his eyes while he was helpless to protect her. He does for a while, but you help him get his poo poo together and as it turns out, he's actually a pretty stand-up guy, if a little hicksome. He talks to Yuffie all "Yeah I hear you, being shipsick sucks and I have the exact same thing," he lays out the plan and tells it like it is but is mildly confident that he and his bros can stop Sephiroth, and of course the ubiquitous "let's mosey." He totally does have a breakdown in the middle of the game, but once he overcomes that, I can definitely see him laughing goofily at Cid getting way more pissed off than is healthy, or spillin' some drinks with Barret. Ultimately he's kind of a nobody without his supersoldier facade, but that's what makes him such an endearing character. jivjov posted:Actually managed to find a copy of FFVI advance in my local Vintage Stock. I overpaid a bit for it, but it's worth not having to deal with PayPal and shipping and whatnot from an eBay seller. Any spoiler free advice for a first time FFVI player? I assume "try to level up everyone a bit" is a fair piece of advice. Yes and no. You can actually fake it in 6A since they changed how the stat system works: the original was "keep your levels after you die," but 6A is "keep your CORE STATS after you die." About a third of the way through the game, you obtain a method of increasing your stats permanently at level-up; it's entirely unnecessary, but if you want to, the option is there to get swole as gently caress. Alternatively just don't be afraid to experiment with weaknesses; stuff life desert or reptilian creatures being weak to Ice or undeads being weak to Fire and Cure is of course obvious, but there are enemies who are weak against magic in general (or just plain resistant to physical damage) and some monsters with pretty unexpected weak points. You can get through the entire game at ~30 if you're careful and conservative, and any higher than that will just make things exponentially easier. v Oh yeah I wasn't arguing against it, but just sayin' Fur20 fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jul 28, 2012 |
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Jul 28, 2012 00:51
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The White Dragon posted:He does for a while, but you help him get his poo poo together and as it turns out, he's actually a pretty stand-up guy, if a little hicksome. He talks to Yuffie all "Yeah I hear you, being shipsick sucks and I have the exact same thing," he lays out the plan and tells it like it is but is mildly confident that he and his bros can stop Sephiroth, and of course the ubiquitous "let's mosey." He totally does have a breakdown in the middle of the game, but once he overcomes that, I can definitely see him laughing goofily at Cid getting way more pissed off than is healthy, or spillin' some drinks with Barret. Ultimately he's kind of a nobody without his supersoldier facade, but that's what makes him such an endearing character. Yeah, I wasn't trying to say he is whiny all the time, just that he gets it at the point where his life kinda falls apart.
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Jul 28, 2012 00:53
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The White Dragon posted:Yes and no. You can actually fake it in 6A since they changed how the stat system works: the original was "keep your levels after you die," but 6A is "keep your CORE STATS after you die." About a third of the way through the game, you obtain a method of increasing your stats permanently at level-up; it's entirely unnecessary, but if you want to, the option is there to get swole as gently caress. Wait so did I catch this properly? In the GBA FFVI, you can: 1. Save 2. Equip some espers 3. Gain some levels 4. Die to delevel, but keep your stats 5. Repeat And basically max out your stats? Holy crap 
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Jul 28, 2012 01:36
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Tengama posted:-I apparently missed this in every playthrough of the game I did as a kid but the second hidden character can apparently equip other characters abilities. Was this just added in the gba version? Nope, he could always do that. It's not as useful as it sounds, because his stats and equipment list are terrible and he doesn't gain esper stats, so he's pretty much always worse at everything than the characters he's stealing the abilities from. But it's a lot better than just having one ability on his list, because there are times when that ability is an awful choice, and you can at least give him a Merit Award if you want him to use an ability that requires a sword or something.
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Jul 28, 2012 01:48
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Pollyanna posted:Anyway let's relax with some Battle on the Big Bridge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxllTHj5zRI OH YEAHHHHHHH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53dyuDOaoHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHbYIbleQP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT6CmBOcAfw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVh0iMvEXug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8JmGmyWWWM e: MORE! MORE! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY90HafKvcU Thanks to whoever it was that posted that Ultros video, I've been watching it looped for like ten minutes. It's perfect. Fungah! fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jul 28, 2012 |
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Jul 28, 2012 01:55
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Don't get mad. I need someone to give me some motivation to give 13 another try. I've had a fair bit of fun with literally every FF game I've played but I ran out of steam on 13 like 6 months ago and haven't gone back since. I'm sure there is something interesting or fun right around the corner? Anything?
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Jul 28, 2012 02:05
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Novum posted:I'm sure there is something interesting or fun right around the corner? Anything? Where abouts were/are you? Because here's a basic outline of the whole game:  And by freedom, I mean one type of sidequest...hunts. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jul 28, 2012 |
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Jul 28, 2012 02:07
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Pesky Splinter posted:Where abouts were/are you? Jesus christ, I literally just got to Pulse when I bailed. Big open area that reminded me of the 'Calm Lands' from FF10. I should've held on like 30 minutes longer you're saying?
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Jul 28, 2012 02:17
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Hedera Helix posted:The Sprint Shoes can be found in South Figaro, which you should equip immediately. They increase your walking speed. Seriously, you should never not have Sprint Shoes equipped. The Sprint Shoes are superfluous in the GBA version of FF6, since that version adds a dash button and an option to dash by default. You are better off using the money and the relic slot for other useful items. You do run a bit faster with Sprint Shoes, but they aren't really necessary since the default dashing speed is about as fast as wearing Sprint Shoes in the SNES version. And dashing + sprint shoes makes you go fast enough that it is legitimately difficult to control your character and not run past doorways and such.
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Jul 28, 2012 02:25
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Novum posted:Jesus christ, I literally just got to Pulse when I bailed. Big open area that reminded me of the 'Calm Lands' from FF10. I should've held on like 30 minutes longer you're saying? Pulse is the best place in the game, because you're no longer restricted by the endless corridors, and can explore things, and look around, and finally get all the eidolons and have all the characters be somewhat useful. It allows you to take things at your own pace for a change. That said, there's very little to interact with, unless you like more cutscenes, or vast empty spaces of nothing but battles and pretty visuals. It also has one of the worst dungeons in the game as well. And more of Space Pope waffling on. And then you're back to the line again, having to suffer through the remains of the story. That doesn't get better, BTW.
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Jul 28, 2012 02:25
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I knew FF9 was essentially a love song to all the earlier final fantasys but i never made the connection of Zidane and Terras trance forms essentially being the same thing, makes me wonder what other references i have missed. Is there a list of them anywhere?
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Jul 28, 2012 03:12
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Harvs posted:I knew FF9 was essentially a love song to all the earlier final fantasys but i never made the connection of Zidane and Terras trance forms essentially being the same thing, makes me wonder what other references i have missed. Is there a list of them anywhere? Ten seconds in Google gets us: Final Fantasy IX Reference List (GameFAQS) Final Fantasy IX Allusions (Final Fantasy Wiki)
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Jul 28, 2012 04:13
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There's also the little things that neither of those mention. For example, I don't think it's by mistake that, just like in the first five games, there are no healing items between High Potions and Elixirs, or that the Ribbon, instead of doing the status prevention gig it had later on, goes back to its FF1 function of reducing elemental damage.
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Jul 28, 2012 09:09
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Trasson posted:There's also the little things that neither of those mention. For example, I don't think it's by mistake that, just like in the first five games, there are no healing items between High Potions and Elixirs, or that the Ribbon, instead of doing the status prevention gig it had later on, goes back to its FF1 function of reducing elemental damage. nerd
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Jul 28, 2012 09:27
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nene. posted:nerd Ha. One of my friends is holds FFIX as one of his favorite games ever so he convinced me to play it and I loved it. Thing is, though, is he pretty much had played none of the older games so I had a bunch of fun pointing out all the stuff that was referential to the rest of the series. It got to the point where I ended up really starting to look for stuff like the aforementioned. mostly though, yeah, nerd.
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Jul 28, 2012 10:37
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