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Dammit, I like a little bell pepper in my Cab. Especially Cab franc; it almost feels wrong when there's no green/herbaceousness/bell pepper to be found. Fruit isn't everything!!
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Jun 23, 2012 01:48
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I totally agree with this post. Excessive pyrazines can be unpleasant, but I've had far more wines that would have benefited from more of that green note than wines that were excessively green.
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Jun 23, 2012 04:40
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You still get that in the ripe grapes, they were looking to get rid of some of that intense, tomato leaf and capsicum type green characters. The grapes were going to be from Coonawarra so there is no shortage of those green characters, most people aim for the mint and menthol spectrum to complement the black currant flavours. Methoxypyrazines are one of the most potent flavour compounds we know of and they obviously thought that toning them down a little would be a good thing. Also green berries will have unripe phenolics which might affect the wine if there is enough of them.
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Jun 23, 2012 05:13
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Yeah, I guess it should go without saying that you aren't looking to get that from leaves and unripe berries. Stem inclusion can be a nice thing, though, assuming your grapes can take it & it fits your wine style. There was a hilarious post on one of the wine boards where one of the frequent tasters was bemoaning stem inclusion - I think he said something like anything over 15% was terrible and claimed that he could taste the difference between 15 and 20%.
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Jun 23, 2012 17:11
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Dear goons, please vet my wine choices. I am trying to find my wife for her birthday some dessert wines. She really enjoys ones with a viscous-y thick feel in the mouth and a smooth but very sweet taste. While I enjoy a very dry wine, she is sort of my polar opposite. But she usually drinks the wine as a dessert in itself after a meal. Since I am in Pennsylvania, my selection is a little limited, but here's what I came up with. Cossart-Gordon Bual 5 Year Old Madeira http://tinyurl.com/82v23np Bunratty Meade http://tinyurl.com/7cswpg6 Insane Totoro fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Jul 5, 2012 |
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Jul 5, 2012 13:46
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Thick, smooth, sweet: go find ye some Banyuls. It's yummy stuff.
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Jul 6, 2012 18:58
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Insane Totoro posted:Dear goons, please vet my wine choices. I am trying to find my wife for her birthday some dessert wines. She really enjoys ones with a viscous-y thick feel in the mouth and a smooth but very sweet taste. While I enjoy a very dry wine, she is sort of my polar opposite. But she usually drinks the wine as a dessert in itself after a meal. I've had that Bual Madeira, and I love it, but it's got more of an earthy, beef bouillon flavor to it. Banyuls is a great suggestion, and you should be able to find various California and Australian "Ports" that are quite affordable. If you have any Tokaji or a related product like Mad Cuvee (Hungarian dessert wines), those are phenomenal. You might also find a good deal on a Sauternes from France or a Vin Santo from Italy. You can also find some late harvest muscats and rieslings that are pretty high on the syrup scale.
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Jul 7, 2012 01:27
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Bual has some viscosity to it, but it still carries a pretty hefty dose of acidity. If you're going to go with Madeira get Malmsey. If she likes to drink dessert wine by itself there is literally nothing better For the price than late harvest Riesling. I didn't suggest it at first because it's typically a little lighter, but as a standalone wine beerenauslese and TBA can be a mind blowing experience. I'm not particularly knowledgeable, but you can probably find beerenauslese half-bottles for very decent prices relative to the experience you'll have.
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Jul 7, 2012 07:51
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Dear wine thread, please help. I've just been informed that I'm responsible for planning 2 days worth of wine tastings in Napa. Ideally we'll do one of the more expensive wineries like Nickel and Nickel or something for fun, but what the family would really enjoy most I think is going to some more moderately priced ones where we can actually afford to buy a case of something rather than just a bottle to take to dinner that night. Cab's seem to be the general theme, although if there's a really good recommendation that highlights something else that would be fine and lovely.
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Jul 12, 2012 01:08
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idiotsavant posted:Bual has some viscosity to it, but it still carries a pretty hefty dose of acidity. If you're going to go with Madeira get Malmsey. If she likes to drink dessert wine by itself there is literally nothing better For the price than late harvest Riesling. I didn't suggest it at first because it's typically a little lighter, but as a standalone wine beerenauslese and TBA can be a mind blowing experience. I'm not particularly knowledgeable, but you can probably find beerenauslese half-bottles for very decent prices relative to the experience you'll have. Wait what is the difference between late harvest Riesling and a normal Riesling?
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Jul 12, 2012 02:08
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Insane Totoro posted:Wait what is the difference between late harvest Riesling and a normal Riesling? Just that. Late harvest is harvested...later. Riesling has a propensity for hanging on the vine long after other grapes would have dropped. As the grapes hang, the water evaporates out of them and they get sort of shriveled. Less water plus the fact that the grapes have been developing sugar longer, means a sweeter, more concentrated wine. Sometimes, depending on the region, botrytis cinerea (aka Noble Rot) can infect they grapes that hang this long, causing even more water to evaporate out. Anyway, long and short is that the longer the grapes hang on the vines, the sweeter and more unctuous the wines become. Be aware, however, that this is not a binary system. It's not like there's "regular" harvest and late. There's a whole spectrum. The Germans are very concerned with this. They have several "pradikats" which describe the amount of sugar in the grapes at harvest. If you are curious they are, in increasing sweetness: kabinett, spatlese, auslese, berenauslese, eiswein, and trockenberenauslese.
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Jul 12, 2012 02:26
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'Late harvest' grapes may not actually be picked all that late these days as the term as come to refer to any wine with residual sugar in it. Not that it really matters much in the scheme of things, but I do tend to prefer a fresher style of sweet wine made from grapes at ripeness similar to that used for table wines to richer dried grape styles, botrytis excepted of course.
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Jul 12, 2012 04:14
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WanderingMinstrel I posted:Dear wine thread, please help. Alpha Omega would blow nickel and nickel out of the water. I often advise Sawyer, but they were recently bought by Foley Johnson so I don't know status. If they are open, the sawyer wines are a brilliant expression of Rutherford terroir. Biale is a great experience if you like zins. I don't, but I'm still taken in. Goosecross is fun early in the day when less busy. August Briggs is smaller, very nice cabs and a great experience. try to get up Howell mtn for Outpost - some of napa's finest wine. If you want to splurge, you will never have a better tasting experience than Kapscandy. Ever.
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Jul 12, 2012 04:56
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As part of our pre-wedding events my wife and I took our guests to Clo Du Val for the tour and a tasting which is $30 a person and includes their classic & reserve wines. They also have a great outdoor area with tables and umbrellas where after the tasting we had a picnic lunch. They have wines starting from around ~$16 a bottle (up to $120) with case discounts when you buy there. It was a great time, I highly recommend it.
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Jul 12, 2012 15:34
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My wife and I went to Castello di Amorosa on our honeymoon. It's a little kitschy but we enjoyed the tour and tasting. The bottle we bought was around $60, but that was in the middle range of their offerings IIRC.
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Jul 12, 2012 21:48
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pork never goes bad posted:Alpha Omega would blow nickel and nickel out of the water. I often advise Sawyer, but they were recently bought by Foley Johnson so I don't know status. If they are open, the sawyer wines are a brilliant expression of Rutherford terroir. Biale is a great experience if you like zins. I don't, but I'm still taken in. Goosecross is fun early in the day when less busy. August Briggs is smaller, very nice cabs and a great experience. try to get up Howell mtn for Outpost - some of napa's finest wine. Thanks for the tips, I'll look into those.
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Jul 14, 2012 08:40
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Beaulieu Vineyards reserve room is worth a stop as well. They have two rooms, one for the tourists looking to get sauced and another room with more serious wines, including some library wines. I had a great experience when I was there. I also enjoyed Grgich Hills, Frank Family, and Provenance. One interesting thing I noticed, I went there with SA user 'Subtlet' and we both were taking notes on the wines we were tasting at every stop. Many producers thought we were wine press, and despite us telling them we were simply writing notes for cellartracker, they proceeded to pour us just about anything and everything we wanted. This happened at many of the stops throughout the three days we were there. I think they must get a lot of people just looking to get sauced so when someone shows up that is actually paying attention to what they are tasting, that seems to open the doors to more things. Also, many very expensive tasting fees were waived with bottle purchases. We did a lot of wheeling and dealing in this and were able to score some good deals and "save" some money. (I say "save" because instead of paying $25 for the tasting fee and leaving with nothing, I'd pay $50 and leave with a $50 dollar bottle of cab or whatever, you get the idea.
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Jul 15, 2012 02:46
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4/20 NEVER FORGET posted:One interesting thing I noticed, I went there with SA user 'Subtlet' and we both were taking notes on the wines we were tasting at every stop. Many producers thought we were wine press, and despite us telling them we were simply writing notes for cellartracker, they proceeded to pour us just about anything and everything we wanted. This happened at many of the stops throughout the three days we were there. I think they must get a lot of people just looking to get sauced so when someone shows up that is actually paying attention to what they are tasting, that seems to open the doors to more things. My wife and I actually noticed this on a smaller scale, both in Napa and in Niagara Falls (tasting ice wine) -- we weren't even taking notes, but we we talking about flavor notes we were picking up on and what we liked/disliked about the wine. The person doing the tasting would go "here, if you like <x> you should try this, this is our blahblahblah reserve". I think the people that run the tastings are just glad to get people that are actually interested in wine once in a while.
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Jul 15, 2012 02:52
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4/20 NEVER FORGET posted:I think they must get a lot of people just looking to get sauced so when someone shows up that is actually paying attention to what they are tasting, that seems to open the doors to more things.
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Jul 15, 2012 21:14
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Then I should have a great trip, as most of my family are wine dorks with above average general knowledge. Anyone have any experience with Jessup? That name got brought up to me last night at work from some nice people with amazing taste in pinot noirs, and it seems like the sort of place I might actually be able to afford a case from.
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Jul 15, 2012 22:05
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Jessup is dreck. I tend to have strong preferences about wine, but even wines of styles that I don't prefer I can drink and enjoy. At the Jessup tasting room we were poured multiple flawed wines. One corked, one cooked, one showing volatile acidity. In each case I told the guy about the problems, he smelled the wine, and then denied that anything was wrong. The two wines which were not flawed were a "port" which the guy pouring knew nothing about (apparently it gets to 20% alcohol without fortification, and is made just like real port, in Spain - despite all that, it was delicious) and a Pinot which was literally undrinkable though I couldn't identify specific flaws. I guess what I'm saying is, while other people might have had good experiences at Jessup, mine was so irretrievably bad by the end that I can't reconcile that with any sentiment expressing desire or recommendation to go there. That sentence got convoluted, but you get my drift?
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Jul 15, 2012 22:38
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WanderingMinstrel I posted:Then I should have a great trip, as most of my family are wine dorks with above average general knowledge. Anyone have any experience with Jessup? That name got brought up to me last night at work from some nice people with amazing taste in pinot noirs, and it seems like the sort of place I might actually be able to afford a case from. Hope you have a blast, and keep a list of alternates in case some places are too full or you end up wanting to stay in a particular subregion longer. There are so many different winery tasting experiences... Sometimes it's just cold and clinical, other times you show just the slightest bit of knowledge and humanity and the next thing you know you're hanging out in the back eating sandwiches with the winemaker and playing with the vineyard dog. Most places don't require reservations, but if you're showing up with a group of 8-10 and are planning on actually buying stuff, it wouldn't hurt to contact them ahead of time. You might get a special tour out of it or they may have a side room where it's easier to serve a group like that and doesn't keep the various individual visitors waiting.
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Jul 15, 2012 22:39
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My experience with Jessup wines, while limited to their Juel and Table for Four, has been positive.
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Jul 16, 2012 01:51
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pork never goes bad posted:and a Pinot which was literally undrinkable though I couldn't identify specific flaws. oh Cali Pinot, how I love thee, let me count the ways  ...tho I do have a bottle of 2000 Renaissance that I'm looking forward to!
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Jul 16, 2012 07:58
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Cali Pinot? Brewer-Clifton is the bomb. I was also recently introduced to Taley, which was very enjoyable.
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Jul 17, 2012 01:40
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There is definitely some good Cali Pinot out there. Restrained, graceful, etc. The problem is that wading past the oaky, unbalanced, acidless fruit grenades can be loving torture.
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Jul 17, 2012 09:01
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One last question, which level of oenophile hell will I be sent to if I just pack wine in my suitcase for the return trip?
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Jul 19, 2012 21:16
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WanderingMinstrel I posted:One last question, which level of oenophile hell will I be sent to if I just pack wine in my suitcase for the return trip? It get a little cold down there but I wouldn't worry too hard.
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Jul 20, 2012 00:31
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WanderingMinstrel I posted:One last question, which level of oenophile hell will I be sent to if I just pack wine in my suitcase for the return trip? I have checked wine on flights from Australia, France, and New Zealand without seeing any loss of quality. I would be more worried about it in the trunk of your car to and from the airport. Stitecin fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 20, 2012 22:43
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Stitecin posted:I have checked wine on flights from Australia, France, and New Zealand without seeing and loss of quality. I would be more worried about it in the trunk of your car to and from the airport. When transporting wine in my trunk I open the passthrough between my trunk and the cabin on my car to let some soothing AC in there. Or fold your seats forward if they do that.
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Jul 21, 2012 01:16
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If relatively short trips in the trunk of your car, even in soaring heat waves, worries you, I probably shouldn't tell you what happens in transit from the distributor to retail. Don't worry about it being in your car for a bit.
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Jul 21, 2012 02:25
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FreelanceSocialist posted:If relatively short trips in the trunk of your car, even in soaring heat waves, worries you, I probably shouldn't tell you what happens in transit from the distributor to retail. Don't worry about it being in your car for a bit. I think the sun is worse than the heat, honestly. I've seen perfectly cool bottles of wine that were standing upright start weeping juice in less than 15 minutes in direct sun.
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Jul 21, 2012 02:32
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FreelanceSocialist posted:If relatively short trips in the trunk of your car, even in soaring heat waves, worries you, I probably shouldn't tell you what happens in transit from the distributor to retail. Don't worry about it being in your car for a bit. Yeah, I meant that as a joke to illustrate how safe checked wine is. It does kind of piss me off to think about how much time I spend doing poo poo like insulating the supply lines to the bottling truck when I know that some distributor's asswipe truck driver is going to let wine cook in the back of his truck while he stops for a smoke-break.
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Jul 21, 2012 03:45
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Don't blame the driver. That reefer unit on the cargo area of the truck? 9 times out of 10 the Trucking Manager tells the drivers to keep it off. 100 degree days be damned. We gots costs to slash!! Years ago a guy I was selling to told me a story about an $800 case of wine that he kept refusing because there was wine busting out of the capsules. He told me the Trucking Manager or Logistics Manager or whatever the gently caress called him and bitched him out saying, "Do you know how many cases of wine you've cost us?!?!"
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Jul 21, 2012 04:01
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So heres a fun game some of you might enjoy: I work at a restaurant that deals with "american only" food products, and that includes wine and beer. Consequently, the entire bottle and btg list is American, predominantly cali, etc. What would your wine list look like for a place like this? I've come up with my own btg list that I feel isn't total poo poo, but I'm interested to see what other nerds come up with. Price point is like 9 a glass. I can post the actual once someone weighs in but I don't wanna color anyones opinion.
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Jul 27, 2012 17:22
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This could be fun. I'd love to throw some East Coast wines on, but I'm not familiar enough with any to include them (seriously, none of the distributors here even carry a Finger Lakes riesling). All of these should be widely available. Esoteric is fun, but I went with "safer" wines. You didn't say how large of a list you wanted us to play around with, so I went with "large". By The Glass List: Sparkling from sweet to dry Schramsberg Cremant, Napa Valley, California Gruet Blanc de Noir, New Mexico Roederer Estate Brut, Anderson Valley, California Whites from sweet to dry Ste. Chapelle Ice Wine Riesling, Idaho Gundlach Bundschu Gewurztraminer, Sonoma Valley, CA Elk Cove Riesling, Willamette Valley, OR Dr. Loosen and Chateau Ste. Michelle Eroica Riesling, Columbia Valley, WA Trefethen Dry Riesling, Oak Knoll District, Napa Valley, CA Willakenzie Estate Pinot Gris, Willamette Valley, OR Chateau Ste. Jean Pinot Blanc, Alexander Valley, CA Seghesio Arneis, Russian River Valley, CA Chateau Ste. Michelle Horse Heaven Hills Sauvignon Blanc, Horse Heaven Hills, WA Robert Mondavi Reserve Fume Blanc, Napa Valley, CA or Ferrari-Carano Fume Blanc Sonoma Cutrer Chardonnay, Russian River Valley, CA Mer Soleil Chardonnay, Santa Lucia Highlands, CA Reds from light to heavy Domaine Drouhin Pinot Noir, Willamette Valley, OR Erath Estate Selection Pinot Noir, Willamette Valley, OR Cambria Pinot Noir, Santa Maria Valley, CA Long Shadows Nine Hats Sangiovese, WA Three Rivers Red, Walla Walla, WA Januik Merlot, Columbia Valley, WA Clos du Val Merlot, Napa Valley, CA Milbrandt Estate Malbec, Columbia Valley, WA White Oak Syrah, Napa Valley, CA Landmark Steelplow Syrah, Sonoma County, CA Ed Meades Zinfandel, Mendocino County, CA Renwood Old Vine Zinfandel, Sierra Foothills, CA Bookwalter Subplot Red Blend, Columbia Valley, WA Artesa Elements Red Blend, Sonoma, CA Guenoc Petite Sirah, Lake County, CA Conn Creek Cabernet Franc, Napa Valley, CA Charles Krug Cabernet Sauvignon, Napa Valley, CA Mt. Veeder Cabernet Sauvignon, Napa Valley, CA Hess Allomi Cabernet Sauvignon, Napa Valley, CA (I wish I could think of non-Napa Valley Cabs for the list, and I really wanted to put a Washington State cab on here, but the ones that came to mind - Januik, Woodward Canyon, Mark Ryan, Donedei, Andrew Will, L'Ecole, Hewitt, etc. all are too expensive for a BTG list. Makes me realize that I need to brush up on moderately price Washington Cabs.)
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Jul 28, 2012 12:32
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Do Virginia wines suck that bad? I went to school in Virginia and even my sommelier instructor said Virginia had its chance to do something special and it blew it.
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Jul 31, 2012 06:15
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Longtiem posted:So heres a fun game some of you might enjoy: I work at a restaurant that deals with "american only" food products, and that includes wine and beer. Consequently, the entire bottle and btg list is American, predominantly cali, etc. What would your wine list look like for a place like this? I've come up with my own btg list that I feel isn't total poo poo, but I'm interested to see what other nerds come up with. Price point is like 9 a glass. I can post the actual once someone weighs in but I don't wanna color anyones opinion. This is a fascinating question. I'm certainly not equipped to design a wine list, but if I had to design a US centric list, I'd focus on interesting producers with good stories that could be detailed on a list. I'd also focus on "Natural Wines"(TM) since it's so contentious as to draw the wine-geeky type in, and enough of them are sufficiently straightforward and delicious as to be perfectly acceptable to the non-wine geek. Lastly, I'd focus on California. I don't know any other region in the US like I know CA wine. All that said, if I had to design a wine list, it'd be full of the Mosel, the Loire, Savoie, Langhe, &etc. Donkey and Goat has an excellent Merlot released recently, something like 50 cases produced. That would be a nice wine. Fatto a Mano is cool, and has nice labels. I had their Primitivo a few days ago, and while a bit darker and more extracted than I tend to go for, it was very nice. Broc Cellars Vine Starr would make a good red/white house wine I'd say. Arnot Roberts makes excellent white and has some really great vineyard properties. Clos Saron produces wonderful reds, and even more wonderful rose. They are famed for Pinot (ignore that they are from California!). Unti makes some very good wine in a hotter climate than most of the above, and make a lot of nice and safe wines, but nothing flabby. Dashe Cellars makes one of the only Rieslings from this state that I like. Salinia has a good family story, and produces lovely wine. Only available direct and through a few restaurants. Giornata makes a lot of nice Italian varietals in California, with low sugar levels at harvest typically. Broadside is extremely friendly, as it were, and also in fitting with the rest here. Sorry I couldn't get down to individual wines &etc - I simply don't have the background to do so, but these are some lovely wines!
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Jul 31, 2012 07:41
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Cool, I'll grab some of those ones mentioned eventually. One thing that always amazes me still is that a table of 4 guests will all order 4 separate glasses of 8 dollar wine, but be really taken aback at ordering a 40 dollar bottle of wine. Same price per glass really, comically better quality of wine, but people can never wrap their heads around it. btg is a scam in every restaurant, especially with whites. If our whites weren't kept at 40 degrees Fahrenheit no one would enjoy them. E: besides having a waiter do wine service looks cool and makes you feel important and fancy
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Jul 31, 2012 19:24
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Longtiem posted:Cool, I'll grab some of those ones mentioned eventually. Can you post your current list for comparison?
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Jul 31, 2012 19:36
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