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homullus posted:I really, really don't think 4e is made for split focus, and that's one of my only complaints about it. Co-GM and unification are your options unless they are the types who don't mind a long time between doing anything in-game because they're gaming on their phone or laptop at the same time. It's a game over voice, so we're all at a computer alt-tabbed doing other things while the focus is on someone else's character. Or at least I am.
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Jul 25, 2012 21:21
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Inverse Icarus posted:The Maptool-based Pathfinder game I'm running is likely starting the first meeting of the new module tomorrow (waiting on one more player to confirm he can play), and four fifth-level PCs will be heading out on a customized version of The City of Golden Death. As mentioned in the Pathfinder thread, I had to essentially "move" the last module (Masks of the Living God) from Nirmathas and Lake Encarthan to Kaer Maga. Depends on how much DM fudging you/your players want. Unless the trip is important (and it sounds like it might be for your group/your plans) I'd work the whole trip down to one set of rolls. Take a page from Oregon Trail, and have small encounters happen. They meet a fishing boat. They see a sea monster. They pass by a sea mount as it breaks the surface. They see a double rainbow. Someone dies of Hannigan's Dehydrating Dysentery. And your flavor text can make all the difference.
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Jul 25, 2012 21:33
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P.S. STILL COMPLETELY DEVOID OF MERIT
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Inverse Icarus posted:I've got a lot of the groundwork laid down and tonight I'm going to polish the parts they're likely to reach in tomorrow's meeting. I'd love any input or ideas other DMs might have to make the experience better for my players, even the ones like the Wizard and the Cleric who know nothing of the sea or navigating. I want them to be involved somehow. The Gnome Wizard has the best Perception check in the party, so I guess he could be in the crow's nest for a lot of the trip. I know you've got it all planned out and want them rolling for whether they stay on course . . . but I say don't bother rolling dice, or at least not with an intent to use the numbers. Come up with a series of binary decisions ("The wind is really picking up! You might be able to tack into the wind for a while to make a little headway on your current course, or you can let it blow you off your course some and pick up some real distance, and then compensate later") where each one leads to an encounter something else interesting ("You spot what you think could be an island in the distance, and it's not on your charts. Check it out (Y/N)?"). If it's an awesome thing you'd love for them to hit (an abandoned ship with a little mystery story, midnight scrag boarding party, an uncharted island) then just, you know, have them hit it. You could still use your existing "stay on course test" somewhere in the middle to give the people with the skill something, and could actually use that to determine whether they get there. Just, uhh . . . I don't think it sounds fun at all to do that over and over, for every day at sea. If you do it when they hit a storm, the cleric and wizard may still be needed to do things if there are hatches that need battening or what have you.
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Jul 25, 2012 21:37
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Interesting, I had figured the whole "check every day" would be pretty fun/interesting for the players. The Paladin has this whole backstory as being essentially belonging to an "anti-Viking" order of Paladins, and he has dutifully invested one of this three skill points every level in Profession (Sailor). I'm hoping to reward him, I'm giving him the ship (a Caravel, which Stormwrack values at 10,000gp) and I thought the nautical adventure would be a fun non-combat encounter, fighting wind and waves trying to get where they're going. I also really like the idea of having them get "lost", thinking they're somewhere and really being off-course. The trip in an of itself is not important, they could basically just teleport to the island and the module wouldn't be any different, I was just hoping to hook the character's nautical background to the ongoing action, and give him the opportunity to feel like he "owns" the ship, and is piloting it himself, rather than just standing on it while it gets to the island. The journey should take 2 weeks, so maybe instead of going every day I'll go every 2 days or something, to reduce the number of times they have to check. I'd like it to be fun/interesting, and not "make 14 checks in a fairly rapid succession." I'll definitely work on adding "small" non-combat encounters, like seeing something odd, or encountering an unmapped island. I think that could be a lot of fun without diverting too much or wasting a lot of time, just like "You find the skeletal remains of a large sea monster stuck in a coral reef" or something when they pass an island. Thanks again for all the input, and if anyone has anything else I'd love to hear it. This is my first time DMing, and I've only run 2 modules so far. This time, though, I'm trying to do a lot more writing/encounter design. I'm basing it off a published module, but I've greatly changed a lot of parts, and I've cut several encounters that I plan to "replace" with stuff at sea. I'll also probably give them an XP award for successfully navigating to the island.
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Jul 26, 2012 09:08
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Stormwrack's tables also have provisions for a "prevailing wind", and I could easily just say that the tradewinds blow northwest, where the party is heading. That would give every day a 65% chance of heading directly towards the island, and a 75% chance of it being at least somewhat favorable (north or west). I'm not trying to make it hard or tedious to get there, but I'd like the players to feel as though they were the ones that did it, the story didn't advance without them. And if they somehow get lost, we'll make it fun.
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Jul 26, 2012 09:17
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Inverse Icarus posted:I'll definitely work on adding "small" non-combat encounters, like seeing something odd, or encountering an unmapped island. I think that could be a lot of fun without diverting too much or wasting a lot of time, just like "You find the skeletal remains of a large sea monster stuck in a coral reef" or something when they pass an island. As far as this part goes, you are definitely going to want to have some more details because a lot of players will take anything that is specifically mentioned as being Very Important. Casually mentioning an unmapped island will lead to landing and exploring it, if only because of the mentality of "the GM made mention of it, therefore it must be important." Just go ahead and make up some short encounters for those types of situations, like maybe there's a native tribe on the island being harassed by a monster they aren't equipped to deal with, and the reward is something like an extra day or two of supplies or some rare food or spice that can be sold for a decent amount.
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Jul 26, 2012 12:16
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I'm running the Skull and Shackles adventure path right now, and the trick seems to be mainly to not make them do EVERY DAY of sailing stuff, but they actually like doing all the minor tasks. Also, remember that not all all 'evil' monsters are evil, so they can have the occasional encounter with one who is talkative, or at least not immediately violent. Last game I ran I had them run into a wyrmling dragon who was very friendly and referred to everyone as "HELLO MINIONS! GRANT YOUR LEADER A SMALL AUDIENCE! HE REQUESTS A FAVOR OF HIS NEWFOUND LEGION!" When they later went to fight the evil 'red king' it was that Dragon, and they remembered it, so the encounter went a little differently than normal. So dropping in some stuff on this sailing ship could set the stage for adventures way down the line.
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Jul 26, 2012 13:38
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Inverse Icarus posted:Interesting, I had figured the whole "check every day" would be pretty fun/interesting for the players. The Paladin has this whole backstory as being essentially belonging to an "anti-Viking" order of Paladins, and he has dutifully invested one of this three skill points every level in Profession (Sailor). I'm hoping to reward him, I'm giving him the ship (a Caravel, which Stormwrack values at 10,000gp) and I thought the nautical adventure would be a fun non-combat encounter, fighting wind and waves trying to get where they're going. This sort of thing CAN be fun, but it has a high risk of ending up as monotony. You also run the risk of  "Oh man, this so awesome for me and my sailor skill points! How about you guys?"  "We are sea sick."Swags had a good point about not doing this every day. Reacting to events is fun, but the ocean is generally a lot of nothing. How about this for a thought: Make a chore chart and little "name tags" for the crew (and maybe some indicator of competence) for both PCs and NPCs. The Paladin as captain, presumably with help from the rest of the party. assigns the crew to various tasks. This will make it easy (and more interesting) for your party to remember how their crew is allocated, and to change duties to respond to what's going on at sea. Bonus points if you make the roster over a ship drawing, with slots placed on different parts of the ship. When its check time, you can just say "Any changes to duty roster?". Which will change what's going on from "14 skill checks" to "resource management minigame". Now, again, this depends on your party, but you could do things like let them level up/recruit more crew (and deal with paying them) You could combine this with some "Away Team" action when exploring islands. e.g. Someone's going to have to pick up poor Esign Duraff's slack when you get back underway.
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Jul 26, 2012 15:54
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I ran the meeting yesterday, and my plan was to roll all that stuff and have them make checks every 2 days. The players reacted favorably during the first day, which rolled a wind blowing east. They ended up off course, due to the Paladin didn't roll well enough to sail into the wind. They all laughed about getting lost and razzed the guy playing the Paladin, and everyone seemed to enjoy the thing, so I just switched to checks every day. I set up the "preveiling wind" like I said, and they had a 65% chance to go directly NW (the way they wanted to go), and a 75% chance to go N, W, or NW, all of which can be used to sail NW with a relatively easy check. There were 2 days where there was no meaningful wind at all, and they were content to just sit there because the Wizard was crafting magic items. Only once was there a storm, and they knew about it beforehand because of a clutch Survival check to predict the weather, and they made landfall for a day, avoiding the storm entirely. The sea voyage took about an hour of play time, and included a small roleplaying session at a temple of Gozreh (god of nature, sea, etc), and one encounter with a Scrag, which they murdered extremely quickly. I seem to have grossly underestimated the party's power, but then again they were pretty confidant this would be the only encounter for the day and blew their load on him (Smite, top-level spells, etc). Paladin smithing with a +1 bastard sword that he can add Flaming to at will, two casters with burning hands that deal 5d4 fire damage. That scrag wasn't long for this world. Everybody played some role on the ship, even the non-sailors. The Wizard was crafting headbands and belts 8 hours a day, but for the rest of the time he was in the crow's nest with his +14 Perception check. The Cleric cast Guiding Star, which let him know how far and in what direction the Temple of Gozreh was, which meant it was impossible for them to get lost. The two sailors made the daily check, read the wind, plot courses, and had a good old time. The player of the Paladin was really happy with how it turned out, and it was mostly for him, so I'm considering it a success.
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Jul 27, 2012 18:41
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Guesticles posted:Now, again, this depends on your party, but you could do things like let them level up/recruit more crew (and deal with paying them) You could combine this with some "Away Team" action when exploring islands. e.g. Someone's going to have to pick up poor Esign Duraff's slack when you get back underway. I suggested this to them, but they are hilariously cheap. Like, calling me out because I missed a non-masterwork rapier on the loot spreadsheet at level 5 cheap. I said that the size of the boat they had could be operated with 3 people, and asked if they wanted to try to hire anyone to help sail it, and everyone declined.
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Jul 27, 2012 18:43
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Awesome to hear InverseIcarus! Glad everything worked out for your group, and its good to see a GM adapt the plan to the party. Too bad they're too cheap to play SeaTrek. Speaking of trip reports, my group finally breached the Tower of Poison. No session this week, but next week they hit the garden and the first security check point. The wizard has the most poison counters on him by a long shot, so that will be interesting.
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Jul 27, 2012 19:19
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Alright, update on the live game, which started last weekend and closes tomorrow night. It went awesome by the way: The players were tasked with delivering Sehanine's Awful Implement, a sentient, intelligent weapon that takes a spectacular form of its holders chosen weapon. It was originally gifted by the Elven Goddess Sehanine to the first Human King, Yargolak the Fat after he conquered the first Elven Empire. It was a trick and it sucks. He was then driven mad and died of malnutrition. Since then, the implement been gifted and regifted again and again between the world’s nobility. In public, it is very well behaved and polite and extremely impressive to behold, an object of great envy, to those who don’t know. In private it is a different thing entirely, especially if it has become upset with its owner. It tends to insult family members, moan about its self-image, make backhanded compliments, bring up embarrassing stories, engage in guilt tripping, and in general bring down the mood of those around it. It can not be boxed, wrapped, or muffled in any way except temporarily by sheathing it. If dropped or stashed somewhere, it will mysteriously find its way back into its current owner’s possession within the course of a week. The only way to be rid of the implement is to give it as a gift and have the recipient accept it. If the implement is somehow prevented from being accepted by the recipient for more than a week, the implement will become lonely and teleport its master to its possession, destroying their body and capturing their soul inside of itself where they can be bothered for eternity. The implement then assumes a new master in the first worthy person it comes across. This proves a problem to the nobility of the world, through which the implement has been passed for generations. They are always wont to be rid of the thing, as it is balls-rear end annoying. However, considering the dire consequences should the implement fall into the wrong hands, transferring ownership can be tricky. In the past, conquering kings have forced the implement into the possession of the conquered lords. Sometimes a vassal may accept it as a show of loyalty. Often, it is accomplished through trickery as an act of revenge. This implement is played by one of the improvisors. The Special Parcel Service was tasked with delivering this item as a wedding gift from its current owner in Harken to the unwitting bride and groom in Fallcrest. On their way they were waylaid by the jilted lovers of the Implement's owner, who had made an infernal pact in exchange for power so that they may avenge their broken hearts. They were soundly defeated. The Party arrived in Fallcrest, where they were ambushed in their beds in Fistbeard's Inn by members of the Order of the Broken Bobbin, a group of fabulous thieves who steal things for fun. They discovered the dire consequences of the Parcel Service not making their delivery and attempted to steal it in the hopes they could watch the drama play out. They failed. The wedding is closed to the public, so the players enlisted the help of the local bartender to find out how to get in. I had 6 different ways planned. The players opted to have Kark, our half-orc bard, attempt to seduce the captain of the guard. This entered a date skill challenge where the players provided support to Kark by playing orcish love songs (improvised on the spot), finding aphrodisiac herbs to slip into the food, intimidating the bodyguards into disappearing etc. The skill challenge resulted in failure and I allowed the captain to choose one player who accumulated a failure to capture. He chose to capture The Great Mimoso, our warlock hexblade and washed up traveling magician, as well as his fairy Champagna. This is where the adventure ended. We got through 2 combat encounters, one skill challenge, and numerous skill checks. Tomorrow they rescue their friend and try another avenue to get into the wedding to deliver the gift. I want to have an interrogation skill challenge where the captain is interrogating Mimoso, who must make endurance checks every 5 minutes or tell the captain everything he knows about the mission and the implement. while the players either fight their way into the prison or sneak and bluff their way in. Even then I had a plan for the Order of the Broken Bobbin to crash the wedding in a big setpiece fight, but that may have to go. Either way they have to get through the wedding tomorrow night in order to bring closure for the audience. They still have 5 ways in but the rescue has to happen and we have 2 hours. Every encounter takes about half an hour. What do you all think?
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Jul 28, 2012 22:45
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What if the wedding takes place above/below/adjacent to the interrogation?
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Jul 29, 2012 09:46
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I'm DMing for the first time for a group of people who have never played D&D before. We just finished our second session of the campaign, and for the most part things are going pretty well, but I have a couple of things on my mind. We're playing Pathfinder in a custom setting that I drafted up, and the party's currently level 3. It consists of a bard, a ranger, a rogue, a magus, and a sorcerer. The player who controls the sorcerer is something of a flake and is always the first person to say "I think we've played enough for now, let's call it a night," even when everyone else is willing to go for at least another hour or so. He's a really enthusiastic player, and he enjoys the in-character aspect of the game more than anyone else. I don't really know what to do about him, though. Do I just say "okay, well if someone feels like quitting then let's call it a night," or should I say "alright, your guy goes back to town and the party continues onward" so that I can keep the other 4 players going? Out of the 3 sessions that we've had planned, he ended the first 2 early and said he didn't feel like playing on the day of the 3rd, which was already down 1 player so we had to cancel the campaign and run an impromptu one (with new characters in a different country) on account of him. Another thing is, what should I do when my players are taking forever deliberating over things? I had a scenario where the players had to choose between slaying a werewolf wizard who was trying to kill a town of disguised goblins, or poison the water in the town so that the werewolf could reclaim the town and use its magical disguises to create a safe haven for lycanthropes. It ended up taking forever because everyone had a different opinion on the matter. The thing is, though, a lot of their arguments seemed to go nowhere: "You know, I don't think we really need to kill the goblins after all, they don't seem evil." "Well, we already poisoned the water, so we should just stick to this plan." "But we could just as easily lie and warn them that we found the well was diseased, they don't have to die and we wouldn't get in trouble." "Yeah, but let's just kill the goblins anyway, we already said we would!" And it would go back and forth for much longer than was necessary, especially if one or two players would be arguing while under the wrong impression because they misinterpreted events in the story that other players understood. I ended up doing 1/4 of the session that I had planned because so much time was spent deliberating over things, and it wasn't always about ethical stuff. It could just be "how do we go down this hallway? well we could cast Vanish to scout ahead, but it only lasts 2 rounds!" and they would argue about the best preparative course of action for at least 5 minutes. I mean, in cases like that, what should I do? I don't want to discourage them from planning things, but sometimes it just saps all of our available time away, especially when we have a player who likes to cut things short.
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Jul 29, 2012 23:21
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Cephas posted:It could just be "how do we go down this hallway? well we could cast Vanish to scout ahead, but it only lasts 2 rounds!" and they would argue about the best preparative course of action for at least 5 minutes. As far as rounds and mechanical stuff goes outside of battle (especially situations like this), just fudge it. If someone suggests a minor thing like scouting with Vanish (since it's such a small spell) encourage them through with that action since it's super quick and super easy. Secretly and somewhat arbitrarily decide how much you reveal out of the player-blind map. It'll cut down on the concern over how they're going to approach it in that you're encouraging them to go with a simple idea, and then once they have this new knowledge, they can base a longer-term decision on what they know now. Or I dunno have 'em find a Ring of Vanish or someshit so it doesn't feel like they're expending a strategic resource so much as getting their "three times a day" use out of their incredibly minor magic item.
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Jul 29, 2012 23:56
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Our group had a bad habit of doing that sort of thing, and we did a few things to remedy it. The most important thing is to discuss it ahead of time and make sure everyone agrees that it's a problem. After that point...
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Jul 30, 2012 00:03
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If the debate continues for too long, you as GM have every right to say "ok what are you guys going to do?" and making them decide. You don't have to be terse about it, just ask them what the group consensus is - if they balk at that, place an in-game time constraint on them such as "if you don't decide in the next few minutes your opportunity to poison the water might slip away because X".
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Jul 30, 2012 00:22
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There's nothing wrong with saying 'In the interest of moving things along, let's put it to a vote'. It's just a human nature thing; if you're allowing discussion and debating that's totally open ended, then everyone will be trying to achieve a consensus, and will feel dissatisfied if they don't get it. On the other hand, people will go along with a majority vote even if it's not exactly what they want, because votes don't need a total consensus. That's why voting was invented! If you don't want to call voting time as the DM, then one of the players should be assigned the role of "leader", which really just means he's responsible for calling for votes when discussions take too long.
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Jul 30, 2012 02:29
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I'm GMing a Strands of Fate game right now (Only my second time GMing this system, and mostly the second time these guys have played). The players all seem to be stuck in the mindset of the last 4e campaign we ran, DMed by one of the current players. That campaign literally started with two sessions of nothing but "You are in a gladiatorial match. Fight things til they die.". Seven straight encounters of "You go into the arena. There's a buncha lava monsters. Kill them." I'm trying to impress upon the players the whole "Fate lets you do whatever, and everyone is involved in the storytelling and the GMing" idea, but they're stuck in the mindset of the last campaign. Everything is solved with guns and punching. Nobody makes assessments of scenes or aspects, they just kill anyone who looks mean. One of the party members DID make a somewhat Good-aligned, socially oriented character, but the rest of the party's insistence on breaking laws and skulls means he's really having very little fun of it. I've got some ideas for a hook to try to unify the party again and get them engaged without being super railroady, but beyond that I'm still in a sticky spot. Any advice for dealing with this? This campaign is full of problems (Like my Co-GM who insists on playing a GMPC who's a hacker, and states that everything is networked and he can hack it) but this one is the one that's really nagging at me. I want everyone to be able to enjoy this but he's a sore thumb in the party and they get in the way of his attempts to talk his way through anything.
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Aug 1, 2012 15:26
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GMPCs are poison. Get rid of the character immediately. Co-GMs are very, very, very tricky and I don't recommend it. Sit down and talk with your players. Tell them what you just told us. If you can't make progress - if they still insist on treating everything as Party Combat Hour - find a new group of players for Strands of Fate. It's not harmful to say, as the GM, "You know guys, I really didn't see a violent solution to this scenario when I designed it. You're free to do what you want, of course - just saying that you don't have to feel like you have to beat these people up if you don't want to."
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Aug 1, 2012 15:57
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First, let me ask this question (or I suppose have you ask yourself): Is everyone happy being in a giant gladiatorial arena for seven straight encounters? If so, they might not want to go around talking to NPCs, they might just want to go punch the end boss in the face (except for that one player you mentioned). So, keep in mind that maybe your group wants something different from Game Night than you do. Assuming they do want to do something other than play Orcs Must Die:The Board Game... -Allow them to get themselves into a combat encounter they can't win by themselves. Maybe the local Crime Baron is too tough to take out straight up, but if they get the rival gang across to help out... -Put them on a PI/Detective quest. Hunt for clues, interrogate suspects, etc. Have the party pull a bank robbery with some throw-away NPCs, only one of the NPCs turns out to be even more amoral than the party. The party finds themselves betrayed and on the run from the authorities. If they want revenge, they can't just go around murdering. Stabbing that dude in chest doesn't help them find out where the gold went. -In the same vein, give them a powerful artifact that they need to unlock. -The party's devil may care attitude catches up to them. If I don't like that guy, I punch him in the face, and nothing bad happens, the next time I don't like someone, chances are I'm going to punch them in the face. Give their actions consequences, and they might think about them. You might also want to mention a little bit about the setting if you want some better/more targeted advice.
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Aug 1, 2012 16:16
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My solution to the GMPC thing has basically been to just become to sole GM, which has happened kinda organically - he never did much GMing, so it all fell to me. I might just make it clear that I'm GMing now, but he's still free to influence things in the usual SOF way. Hopefully that also makes it clear to the rest of the party that EVERYONE has some narrative control and voice and maybe they'll step up to the plate. EDIT: Yeah, that was kinda my plan. The criminal underground has taken notice of the trail of bodies they left through the gangs of Chicago and is going to do somethin' about it. The Detective/PI idea is almost perfect and probably what i'll use. Thanks 
Sixto Lezcano fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Aug 1, 2012 |
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Aug 1, 2012 16:17
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If you're going to be playing an investigative game, I've got the system for you: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3453937 Let's put it this way: you spend points from a pool to be effective at fighting, and your pool doesn't refresh until the GM says so (usually between cases), so repeatedly fighting everything quickly becomes less and less viable as the case goes on. If investigation is going to be a big part of your campaign, I highly recommend the Gumshoe system.
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Aug 1, 2012 16:44
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If you have a party that insists they want to roleplay and that they value the RP aspect yet they still attack anything with a pulse (I have a player in my group just like this), there is a simple solution: put them up against someone bigger and stronger than they are. This isn't about the GM "winning", it's about showing the players that if they act like bullies, eventually they will try to bully someone better than them. The best way to do this is the next time they pick a fight where it's not needed at all, have one of the enemies by an unassuming bad rear end. Not all adversaries need to be 10 feet tall encased in spiked armor to be threatening - have it be a skilled pilgrim with a staff or a mage of incredible power just trying to get somewhere. That will have the added bonus of demonstrating to the players that anyone they encounter might be their equals in terms of power. That's an important lesson. But only do this if the end goal is to help everyone have a better time - this isn't about teaching the players how "wrong" they are, it's about showing them that RP isn't just about fighting and killing, it's about making decisions.
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Aug 1, 2012 17:28
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You can also stick someone in who people will miss. "You monsters! You killed my husband, he didn't speak because he's a mute! That was the sign for 'friend'! You bloodthirsty bastards, why? You didn't even give him a chance!" And to show them that not every fight has to end in death, have someone strong enough to not lose while taking -4s just knock them out. Let them know they're being hit by weapon flats, etc.
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Aug 1, 2012 19:27
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Okay, so we've got 1) Put in a fight they can't win. 2) Trick them into killing somebody good I like the first better than the second, but what I really like is: 3) Put them up against a villain where if they go in guns blazing they lose. Not because they lose the fight, but because the villain expects it and uses that time to complete her cunning plan. They will miss clues because they kill the people who have the information they need. Don't sit there frustrating them - just say "You've run out of leads. You keep investigating and chasing down dead ends for a day until [BAD THING X] happens." The players bash down the door to her castle, fight through all the guards, traps and monsters only to find out she's not there. She's off crying about how violent and awful the PCs are and manipulating the authorities against the PCs and at the same time she's completing her goals. Now she wins, the authorities are mighty pissed at the PCs, but the PCs win their fights and you don't have to trick them. Now the stage is set for things to get really epic as the PCs are out for revenge. Rinse and repeat until they try something other than violence - the only way for them to kill this villain is to out-think her. In my opinion, you really really don't want to be tricking them. Give them opportunities to do things other than fight. If they take those opportunities, they're proving themselves to be something other than murderhobos. If they don't take them, you can gently point out that things could have gone differently. Be sure to emphasize that it isn't "Well if you'd read my mind you could have found the solution" but rather "If you'd tried literally anything it would have gotten you somewhere."
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Aug 2, 2012 04:19
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Xaander posted:Any advice for dealing with this? This campaign is full of problems (Like my Co-GM who insists on playing a GMPC who's a hacker, and states that everything is networked and he can hack it) but this one is the one that's really nagging at me. I want everyone to be able to enjoy this but he's a sore thumb in the party and they get in the way of his attempts to talk his way through anything. Your game is fundamentally broken, but not irreparably so. Please don't throw "gotcha" encounters at them or show them the error of their ways through in-character repercussions (however much they may deserve them) or otherwise try to solve the problem through the game itself. Instead, take the next session or some time during the week before it to have everyone get together and work out the group's expectations for the game. Use the Same Page Tool and adhere to it strictly. If you can't come to a consensus, drop the game and start a new one. If you do come to a consensus and the next session is still a mess, drop the game and start a new one. Also, having a co-GM is asking for trouble in any system which doesn't build the role in to its mechanics.
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Aug 2, 2012 06:09
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Does anyone have a recommendation for a system that works well with an "urban magic" setting, and is easy to pick up for a complete beginner group? We tried the Dresden Files system, but the whole Aspects part of FATE is a bit too RP-intensive for our group. We couldn't even make it past character creation before everyone got bored.
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Aug 2, 2012 08:34
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Eberron works on a steampunky magitech setting and it's in the super easy to grasp 4e system. I'd recommend that to start with.
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Aug 2, 2012 11:15
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I'd like to draw upon your collective ideaspace for ways to convey how fundamentally hosed up the Far Realm is, cause I think my party is about to go on a little trip, and speaking of which, also how incredibly bad an idea it is to take a trip there. I like the default 4E idea of multiple semitransparent layers which may be sub-planes, different places or different depths of perception or all at once and some creatures exist in several at once and all that, but that strikes me more as "good place to start, it gets worse from there" than "defining feature of the entire plane." I want this poo poo to be scary and inexplicable. Ideally something like the Black Lodge in Twin Peaks with mind flayers. Not about to learn how to talk backwards though. And then I might need a convenient deus ex machina to get them back out.
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Aug 2, 2012 11:26
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Maybe don't play the trip through the far realm, but have the party suddenly come to in the aftermath of their exit. (The implication being that it was so horrible, their minds blocked it out). Have some NPCs completely shell shocked and babbling/completely mentally gone. Go Event Horizon to the next level on them.
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Aug 2, 2012 11:36
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Huh, that's probably the simplest way and works really well for what I'm planning. Thanks! I could give them a few disjointed bits and pieces of memory, just enough to figure out something happened but that trying to remember details would be an awful idea, maybe even some psychic damage for every time they're actively trying to recall something. The warlock likes to document their journey with drawings, I could have him find some completely mad scribblings the next time he opens his art supply case. Yeah, this sounds pretty good.
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Aug 2, 2012 16:55
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Nothing can scare someone like their own imagination. When coming up with memory flashes, there's one movie that portrays a quick dip into hell even better than Event Horizon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Fuxkinhug Or if you want to go with a lighter approach, I think the Rah Brah's have pretty much captured the blinders of reality being removed from the electric yellow of your brain banana: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDtw71vCTXk Additional serious advice/brainstorming: -At the party's exit (and maybe entry point? Maybe they don't actually travel in space?) Have people/animals turned inside out, maybe with extra limbs or limbs connected in places they shouldn't be. -One of the party's normal backpacks/satchels becomes a bag of holding. This bag of holding is a normal bag of holding in every way, except the faint sounds of screaming that emanate from it when opened. -Three words: Sentient Trail Rations. -If you think it won't be too confusing, have Fey/Shadowfell/Elemental Chaos/Astral Sea creatures/aspects fused into the surrounding area. Like the portal tossing them back to the material plane erupted through the layers of reality and made the realities of the various planes intermingle and coexist for a fraction of the second before the planar boundaries reasserted themselves and brought reality crashing back down. Things like a part catoplebas, part unicorn, part fire elemental dead or dying as the impossibility of its existence catches up to it. This has the possibility of confusing the party "Well, we're covered a necrotic sludge that makes me depressed. Obviously the next step in our quest is the Shadowfell." so figure a way to make it clear this part of the Far Realm portal doing bad things to the fabric of time and space, and not clues on where to go next. - I can't remember if it was MM2 or 3 that had a few pages of Far Realm-centric enemies that you could use for inspiration. - If you've got (or have a chance before the trip to set up) a particularly powerful wizard/mage who's forte is planar exploration. Have the party find him (or bits of him) laying around, a victim of reality unzipping. Make it clear this isn't some mad scientist, this mage knows his stuff and doesn't do risky or stupid things, so there's an "Oh poo poo, this is really dangerous" realization.
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Aug 2, 2012 18:32
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I know nothing about the Far Realm, but I think it'd be neat it their ship's figurehead became alive. Horribly, horribly alive. If their ship didn't have a figurehead, it does now.
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Aug 2, 2012 19:40
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Geektox posted:Does anyone have a recommendation for a system that works well with an "urban magic" setting, and is easy to pick up for a complete beginner group? We tried the Dresden Files system, but the whole Aspects part of FATE is a bit too RP-intensive for our group. We couldn't even make it past character creation before everyone got bored. Unknown Armies has a remarkably simple and easy to learn system, but if your group likes combat you may have to tone it down, as UA is also pretty deadly.
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Aug 3, 2012 18:18
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For the Far Realm, the idea of just having them wake up at the end with some drawings and faint freakish memories will work well, I think. But should they go a second time? Start playing it out. Not the ENTIRE trip. Just one little segment. Basically, have them wake up -mid journey- with something freaky going on. Maybe they wake up while being chased by cthulian monsters, one of them is at 1hp with no healing surges left, another is bleeding profusely (losing hp each round), another in limping and bloodied (slowed), etc. Then after completing the challenge (skill challenge opportunity for an escape sequence!) they black out, and wake up in the real world, with more freaky souvenirs. Each time they go back into the far realm, add an additional segment. They should each be completely disjointed, like going from dream-to-dream. They should each be freaky. They should affect the players in ways they don't expect... maybe one time, one of them is replaced by an evil duplicate you control, and another time, THEY are inside out, and another time, visions of loved ones dance around them... taunting... and then start erupting in tentacles. And so on. It should make them fear and respect the far realm, I think.
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Aug 4, 2012 01:04
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So the day after I posted that question in this thread, I sent out a message to everyone in the campaign asking that, before I plan the next session, they give some feedback and some direction in terms of what they want out of the campaign, so I could give that to them and make sure everyone's on the same page. They gave me some really good feedback and I had (what I figured) was a good session planned out, something to give the party some cohesion and switch things up into what they were looking for. But then the "Co-GM" (Who hasn't really been DMing except to veto things I say and rule-lawyer with me -- He's normally a great guy, I didn't think it'd be this bad. Lesson learned!) had a drama fit and took issue with the idea that I was making changes to the campaign without asking permission on all of them, and that the players didn't like the game. We scratched the campaign, partly because of all this and because I just got a full-time job and don't really have the time to commit to this for a while. The other players asked me to start a new campaign later in the year without him, or at least without him GMing, and we'll be going into that with a lot more forethought and Same-page discussion. I'll be a lot more ready to know what they want and need out of this adventure and how to be a "productive", Yes-And sorta GM. We're also doing some collaborative setting design to make sure it's something everyone's invested in. That should also help to get them comfortable with the idea of "passing around the talking stick" in terms of FATE's narrative control. And for god's sake, no GMPCs. Lessons learned, I guess. Thanks for the advice, everybody!
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Aug 4, 2012 18:51
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I'm thinking of running a ninja-themed game set in feudal Japan with at most light supernatural elements. Since my knowledge about that era is more or less compromised of whatever I picked up just by being on the internet, I'm looking for a good sourcebook on the subject. System-wise I'm thinking about using GURPS with the Martial Arts book. Can you give me any recommendations? I'm considering picking up the Sengoku RPG and supplements.
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Aug 5, 2012 00:01
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Unknown Armies has a remarkably simple and easy to learn system, but if your group likes combat you may have to tone it down, as UA is also pretty deadly. I said they liked combat, but I never promised they'd survive said combat.  Looks like a cool system, I'll try to track down a copy. Thanks!
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Aug 5, 2012 08:16
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| # ? May 8, 2024 21:00 |
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So I'm planning a little 4e campaign for when some friends and I are at a conference. Basically the party has to work through the sanctum of a renowned illusionist. Now through the first few rooms I'm gonna reveal that the wizard developed an incense that lets you manipulate "shadow matter" when you breathe enough of it. For example, I'm thinking at one dose you can see a bridge, at two you can walk across it, at three you can actually make your own bridge. The downside is that the more you breathe in, the more you risk nightmare monsters crawling out of your subconscious and attacking the party. So how do I kind of keep this part in the dark? I'm thinking that I should tie how much a person is affected to a modifier without telling them which stat I'm using. Or having the party become addicted and having to roll every once in a while or they compulsively use more of the smoke.
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Aug 6, 2012 12:19
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