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Moniker posted:He had to stop mid-roll just to stress the fact that he didn't let me do it and that I felt it and acted on my instincts and it worked! Really awesome. Sounds like a super supportive training environment. Keep at it man, and train hard.
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Aug 1, 2012 21:35
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There's a whole set of techniques in the "post-throw, pre-groundwork" phase that's being increasingly ignored as BJJ and judo try to differentiate themselves from each other. The BJJ schools I've attended have all had really tight standup, no one could relax and flow until they were off their feet, and the judo schools have had similarly tight groundwork. I'm sure every judoka has thrown someone who hung on and pulled them over into groundwork during the impact, and I'm sure the BJJers who do standup have been thrown and found themselves caught in a sub or pin before they had time to react. People seem to be trying to forget that the momentum/tension that's collected in standup should continue as you move into groundwork for a smooth flow. If it gets released when you change levels opponents get the chance to go fetal and fend off your sub. Of course we've all drilled throws into arm bars or kimuras on occasion, but that's just the tip of the iceberg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Is-VzzCfA Arm Drag>Kouchi Gake>Rolling Calf Crusher https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg5MZ8HxmOs Drop seoi>Reverse Arm Triangle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS94xC9sR_g Ko Uchi Gari>Ankle Pick>Knee Bar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBnBB6vGtns Double Leg>Ankle Lock CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Aug 2, 2012 |
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Aug 1, 2012 23:47
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Fontoyn posted:It really doesn't work. Salt in water is not enough to osmotically pull toxins and poo poo from your muscles. Bath salts, on the other hand, make me brutal and effective.
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Aug 2, 2012 00:20
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Hello kickass goons; I am about to move to Hamilton, Ontario, and I am an inactive basement-dwelling nerd who trained in Karate for about 4 months when I was around 10 years old, and found that I didn't have the discipline or self-awareness required to appreciate the wisdom of, or practice the techniques I learned from, the Dojo I attended. Now that I am older and (not really) wiser, is there anyone who lives in Hamilton who could recommend to me a Kyokushin Karate studio in which to train?
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Aug 2, 2012 02:11
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Speaking of Olympic Judo, this untrained 200 lb guy I work with who moonlights as a bouncer is convinced he could take Marti Malloy in a street fight. I told him he is out of his mind and she would make him cry. 
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Aug 2, 2012 03:09
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Omglosser posted:Speaking of Olympic Judo, this untrained 200 lb guy I work with who moonlights as a bouncer is convinced he could take Marti Malloy in a street fight. I told him he is out of his mind and she would make him cry. Is this where we point out that martial experts can be easily taken out with dirty tricks or weapons? I don't know if your coworker could beat an Olympic judoka in a street fight, but I wouldn't put money on the fight either way.
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Aug 2, 2012 03:44
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entris posted:Is this where we point out that martial experts can be easily taken out with dirty tricks or weapons? Um, I wasn't there for the conversation but I don't think anyone had in mind the use of guns, knives, or a jar of acid. Your links seem rather far off topic.
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Aug 2, 2012 05:06
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Well to an Olympic judoka being punched in the face would potentially be a very novel experience
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Aug 2, 2012 07:23
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Quite the opposite from what I hear, it's basically fine at that level to punch opponents in the jaw so long as you've got a collar grip with it, and nutters and shin kicks are pretty common too. E: But fighting against someone who really wanted to hurt them would be new. CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Aug 2, 2012 |
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Aug 2, 2012 07:46
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If this week's olympic judo is a good representation of the whole, they seem to punch each other in the face constantly when they're hunting for collar grips.
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Aug 2, 2012 07:53
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:After a little digging, it looks like he's a Taekwondo coach who's taken a video course in BJJ. I would expect him to be awful. He's also a Reiki master, so he believes in magic, too. Oh god. I'll avoid that place like the plague.
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Aug 2, 2012 08:39
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a judo olympian will most likely beat the poo poo out of a bouncer, but a typical bouncer will beat the poo poo out of a typical judo black belt.
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Aug 2, 2012 10:53
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Paul Pot posted:a judo olympian will most likely beat the poo poo out of a bouncer, but a typical bouncer will beat the poo poo out of a typical judo black belt. I know you post a lot of crap but drat, that's nonsense.
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Aug 2, 2012 11:19
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Paul Pot posted:a judo olympian will most likely beat the poo poo out of a bouncer, but a typical bouncer will beat the poo poo out of a typical judo black belt. I don't know what it's like wherever you are, but a hefty minority of the bouncers at Sydney's more swanky pubs and clubs are Judoka and it's really, really, really funny when drunks try to put hands on them.
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Aug 2, 2012 11:22
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:If this week's olympic judo is a good representation of the whole, they seem to punch each other in the face constantly when they're hunting for collar grips. This is true. You can't straight up punch somebody. But if a punch or elbow "happens" while you are fighting for grips that's just part of the game.
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Aug 2, 2012 11:46
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Nierbo posted:I know you post a lot of crap but drat, that's nonsense. It would be really nice if you expanded on this instead of just dismissing him like that.
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Aug 2, 2012 12:01
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Smegmatron posted:I don't know what it's like wherever you are, but a hefty minority of the bouncers at Sydney's more swanky pubs and clubs are Judoka and it's really, really, really funny when drunks try to put hands on them. that kinda supports what I was saying, no? the typical bouncer is big, has some decent grappling knowledge and is used to real fight situations. the typical judo bb isn't used to getting into fights, doesn't crosstrain, smaller and the equivalent to a bjj purple belt or a kickboxer with 5 amateur fights...basically solid, but not that high up the totem pole at his own discipline. nierbo, you're a judo green belt lol.
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Aug 2, 2012 12:30
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Paul Pot posted:that kinda supports what I was saying, no? the typical bouncer is big, has some decent grappling knowledge and is used to real fight situations. the typical judo bb isn't used to getting into fights, doesn't crosstrain, smaller and the equivalent to a bjj purple belt or a kickboxer with 5 amateur fights...basically solid, but not that high up the totem pole at his own discipline. I'm a green belt so I can't comment on bouncers or on black belts? I've seen you post in the UFC threads but I haven't seen you fight in the UFC... Strange. I don't know what judo black belts you've seen or trained with (obviously very few or none) but I've never met one that wasn't incredibly strong especially for their size. And having no gi to work with isn't as much of a disadvantage like you're probably thinking, for example double legs were only recently banned and theres about a million other ways judoka can get an opponent to the ground anyway. The movement and fluidity and base of someone at that level is astounding. What do you mean 'typical judoka don't crosstrain'? Do the bouncer is just assumed to crosstrain but the judoka is assumed to not crosstrain just because it suits your theory better? 95% of the time competition is essential for the black belt promotion and the conditioning is brutal, not as brutal as MMA but its pretty much up there near the top. And I'm sure you already know this but chokes are just as effective on someone muscular than on someone not. Saying a typical judo bb isn't used to getting into fights is a ridiculous thing to say, whether true or not means absolutely nothing. We're not talking hapkido here, we're talking about a live art. When you said that a typical judo black belt would qualify for a bjj purple belt, I knew you were talking out of your rear end. Actually, I knew before then. To train 3-6 times a week for 4 years+ to get a judo bb is incredibly grueling and generally teaches a lot of fight intelligence along the way and in my opinion completely trumps someone whos main focus is lifting weights and as you said; 'decent' grappling (just following your assumptions here). But very rarely would any judo black belts qualify for a BJJ purple belt, most would fall just short of a blue if you ask me, not necessarily for lack of strength on the ground in terms of effective techniques but for lack of versatility on the more complex (and most likely far less useful outside of the dojo) moves and situations. Obviously I'm not counting 50 yr old judoka who got their black belt when they were 21 and train once a month since then or whatever. On a bit of a tangent here but having said that, I'd wager every dollar I own on the 60 year instructor that teaches our class sometimes against any bouncer. He's a 7th dan judo black belt and clearly not what we're referring to in this discussion but drat, its cool to see someone of his age so incredibly attuned to grappling.
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Aug 2, 2012 14:07
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Paul Pot posted:a judo olympian will most likely beat the poo poo out of a bouncer, but a typical bouncer will beat the poo poo out of a typical judo black belt. Probably depends on the area you live in. Here there are pretty much never any fights in bars, so bouncers are usually just guys that are rather big but wouldn't know what to do if a fight happened so I'd bet my money on anyone with fighting skills over them (unless the weight difference was really huge)
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Aug 2, 2012 14:26
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Nierbo posted:
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Aug 2, 2012 15:03
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Nierbo posted:And having no gi to work with isn't as much of a disadvantage like you're probably thinking I had to compress that wall of text and here's the response: 1. I never said that Judo BBs were easy to get, that they weren't good at throwing people, that a gi is a disadvantage, that chokes weren't effective on muscular people or that it meant you qualified for a BJJ purple belt. Where are you getting all of this crap from? 2. You're under the naive impression that randori prepares you for a streetfight with guys whose job description says "occasional streetfights". 3. Outside of Gene LeBell's Armenian refugee camp, the typical judoka's probably not getting into uncontrolled fights because they're regular people instead of loving idiots. 4. I understand that Judo BBs must be really impressive to you at this stage, but your 60 year instructor is not going to beat "any bouncer". ffs..
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Aug 2, 2012 15:25
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How can you possibly claim to know what his instructor, a person you've never met or trained with, is capable of? Are you suggesting that because he's 60 that he couldn't possibly handle the threat of a younger "street-fighter"? You mentioned Gene Labelle, and he's much older than that. I'd pick him in a fight over just about any bouncer I know (there are exceptions to every rule though, and I do know some tough bouncers).
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Aug 2, 2012 15:55
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"bouncer" covers college kid working for beer money to professional fighters doing a day job. This is a dumb argument.
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Aug 2, 2012 15:57
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Kumo Jr. posted:You mentioned Gene Labelle, and he's much older than that. I'd pick him in a fight over just about any bouncer I know (there are exceptions to every rule though, and I do know some tough bouncers). Gene Lebelle was getting into fights with boxers to showcase how a mixture of grappling and striking skills were more effective than the common American fighting sports back in the 60s IIRC. I'd put money on him because he was essentially a heavyweight MMA champion decades before the UFC began. Your average 60 year old black belt, not so much.
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Aug 2, 2012 16:05
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Kumo Jr. posted:How can you possibly claim to know what his instructor, a person you've never met or trained with, is capable of? Are you suggesting that because he's 60 that he couldn't possibly handle the threat of a younger "street-fighter"? quite simple, there's no 60-year-old (judoka or not) out there that's going to beat up "any bouncer". it's a retarded statement and not really worth debating.
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Aug 2, 2012 16:05
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Paul Pot posted:quite simple, there's no 60-year-old (judoka or not) out there that's going to beat up "any bouncer". it's a retarded statement and not really worth debating. What about Bruce Lee
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Aug 2, 2012 16:26
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Ah yes, there it is. I was wondering how long it would take for the martial arts thread to devolve into internet tough guy shenanigans. Long story short, at the end of the day anyone who goes out picking a fight is a moron or a psychopath. Let's talk next about how badass a rugby player is when compared to a high school wrestler. 
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Aug 2, 2012 16:28
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Nerbo would your coach beat BasNovemberMike posted:Gene Lebelle was getting into fights with boxers to showcase how a mixture of grappling and striking skills were more effective than the common American fighting sports back in the 60s IIRC. I'd put money on him because he was essentially a heavyweight MMA champion decades before the UFC began. Your average 60 year old black belt, not so much. The sport has come a long long long way since the sixties. niethan fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Aug 2, 2012 |
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Aug 2, 2012 16:31
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Nierbo posted:I'd wager every dollar I own on the 60 year instructor that teaches our class sometimes against any bouncer. He's a 7th dan judo black belt and clearly not what we're referring to in this discussion but drat, its cool to see someone of his age so incredibly attuned to grappling. How many dollars do you have? I am friends with a bouncer from the UK, you might of heard of him, I mention him occasionally. Bare in mind, that in the UK, bouncers are not allowed to hurt customers and have to be licensed by the government, so he gets called a wimp a lot and can barely do anything about it when he works, so in that way he is completely untested.
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Aug 2, 2012 18:47
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Hey guys how many bouncers do you think you could take at one time? I mean, I could probably take down 4 maybe 5, anything past that would be pushing it though. This is worse than any my dad can beat up your dad fight I've ever seen if only because it's perfectly understandable why you would want your dad to be the toughest dude ever but why would any of you care whether some random bouncer you might know can beat up some random martial arts teacher?
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Aug 2, 2012 19:32
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Hot Dog Day #31 posted:Hey guys how many bouncers do you think you could take at one time? I mean, I could probably take down 4 maybe 5, anything past that would be pushing it though.
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Aug 2, 2012 20:28
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Hot Dog Day #31 posted:Hey guys how many bouncers do you think you could take at one time? I mean, I could probably take down 4 maybe 5, anything past that would be pushing it though. I guess "bouncer" is a general example of a tough big strong guy with some kind of real world experience with physical altercations. I guess it comes down to what training is really worth compared to just physicality. Some people get really insecure about this stuff and make claims one way or another. You also see dudes that are new to whatever style fall in love and start overestimating skill versus physical attributes. Nierbo's judo coach prob could beat up a lot of bouncers, get beaten up by more but it doesn't loving matter because hes an old man that is teaching Judo not picking fights.
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Aug 2, 2012 20:55
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Xguard86 posted:You also see dudes that are new to whatever style fall in love and start overestimating skill versus physical attributes. Nierbo's judo coach prob could beat up a lot of bouncers, get beaten up by more but it doesn't loving matter because hes an old man that is teaching Judo not picking fights. The whole thing is especially ridiculous when neither a bouncer or judo teacher are supposed to be beating anyone up. Bouncers are supposed to make sure clubs are safe and if someone starts acting inappropriately they're supposed to get them out with as little trouble as possible; sometimes that might mean fighting but ideally it wouldn't. Similarly, a Judo teacher is supposed to teach people how to throw people a very particular way such that they score an Ippon or barring that, hold them or choke them a specific way. Normal, sane, rational people whether they're bouncers or kindergarten teachers don't care whether they or people they know can beat up random strangers because why in the gently caress would you unless you're a sociopath?
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Aug 2, 2012 21:06
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I wonder whether I or people I know can beat up other people all the time I must be a sociopath?
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Aug 2, 2012 21:10
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Hot Dog Dork has never sized up random stangers because he knows the outcome, fuckin beta. Thinking someone will surely win a street fight because he's much better at grappling/fighting in a controlled environment is dumb & dangerous, that's all.
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Aug 2, 2012 21:31
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most experienced people have had a freak accident or two in the controlled environment and feel the same way about making this poo poo even more dangerous. ...I still size people up constantly.
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Aug 2, 2012 21:39
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Paul Pot posted:Hot Dog Dork has never sized up random stangers because he knows the outcome, fuckin beta. It turns out we don't disagree, and I hadn't realized your argument was hinging on the specific notion of "any" bouncer. I thought you were suggesting that old men aren't dangerous. And I like how my instructor explains the notion of sizing up strangers. "An untrained person wonders if they can fight. A fighter wonders if they're the better fighter. A martial artist considers how he would beat his opponent. A master has already considered your weaknesses and pondered a strategy for how to know that he will win."
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Aug 2, 2012 21:42
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Kumo Jr. posted:It turns out we don't disagree, and I hadn't realized your argument was hinging on the specific notion of "any" bouncer. I thought you were suggesting that old men aren't dangerous. Xguard86 posted:most experienced people have had a freak accident or two in the controlled environment and feel the same way about making this poo poo even more dangerous. I think things like: I will run up to them throwing punches until I'm close enough to throw elbows and once we're too close for that I'll headbutt them in the nose. I think Forrest Griffen said that, best streetfighting advice ever. As someone who just graduated from a highschool with a wrestling team, here is a legit streetfighting tip: don't ever do any kind of takedown that involves any part of you touching the ground on anything but mats and soft dirt.
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Aug 2, 2012 21:51
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Fontoyn posted:don't ever do any kind of takedown that involves any part of you touching the ground on anything but mats and soft dirt. As a person that's been in countless "concrete engagements" as a bouncer for a nightclub for many years, I can tell you that I disagree with this statement. I understand where you're coming from, and the danger which you're implying that comes with any sort of takedown. However, it's like Rickson Gracie says, "I am a shark, the ground is my ocean and most people can't even swim". There's no such thing as a fair street fight. If you have to fight, than get behind or on top of your opponent and make sure you never get tunnel vision of your surroundings. I recognize the danger of going in for a double leg, but if the red line gets crossed than you better believe I'm looking for a way to take my opponent off his feet and into my world.
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Aug 2, 2012 23:35
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Paul Pot posted:Hot Dog Dork has never sized up random stangers because he knows the outcome, fuckin beta. This post is truth except I only wish I was a beta, I'm way to much of a loser to be anything than an omega  When people used to come in and ask our Judo coach if he had ever fought anyone FOR REALS or if they could defend themselves with it, he always told them no he hadn't fought and while you certainly can use some of the techniques to defend yourself, it would be more useful to just learn how to run really fast and/or buy a gun. Only time he ever came close to a fight was some guy at a bar thought he was flirting with his girlfriend so he came over and started poo poo talking and pushing my coach. Coach just backed away, apologized and offered to buy the guy a drink; dude accepted and they talked for a while. I mean if he fights that dude the best case scenario is that he beats some drunk guy up and gets to feel good about the fact that he caused needless harm to another person. Worst case is he dies. Instead he's out a couple of bucks and everyone walks away happy and friendly. Edit: I'm honestly just curious, what kind of jobs do you people have and/or lifestyles do you lead where you need to be considering whether or not you or your sensei can kick someone's rear end on a consistent basis? I mean unless you're like a pro-fighter, cop or a drug dealer or something. apropos to nothing fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Aug 2, 2012 |
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Aug 2, 2012 23:45
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