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The Outcast Dead is honestly pretty lovely but it's basically the only time Thunder Warriors have ever appeared in the fluff so I still say it's worth reading.
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Aug 1, 2012 02:47
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The Imperium is said to be a very oppressive regime, but the fluff says that the Imperium often exerts very little control over the internal politics of its worlds. As long as a planet worships the Emperor, shuns xenos, and pays its tithes, the Imperium lets it handle its affairs as it pleases. By this alone, there is no reason a vibrant democracy couldn't develop on one of its worlds. If all the Imperium is grimdark and that plenty of planets want to rebel, then there must be more to it. What does the Imperium do to planets to keeps them stagnant and oppressive?
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Aug 1, 2012 13:17
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Baron Bifford posted:The Imperium is said to be a very oppressive regime, but the fluff says that the Imperium often exerts very little control over the internal politics of its worlds. As long as a planet worships the Emperor, shuns xenos, and pays its tithes, the Imperium lets it handle its affairs as it pleases. By this alone, there is no reason a vibrant democracy couldn't develop on one of its worlds. If all the Imperium is grimdark and that plenty of planets want to rebel, then there must be more to it. What does the Imperium do to planets to keeps them stagnant and oppressive? That isn't to say that there are exceptions to the rule, but if I grew up on a world that was entirely devoted to making tanks to fuel a galactic war effort, I would probably think it was pretty oppressive. "Vacation? Sorry. The Minervan 15th needs 4000 Leman Russes immediately to fight insurgents in the Scarus Sector. You'll be pulling double shifts for the next three years." That and the fact that anyone could accuse you of being a witch at any time...
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Aug 1, 2012 13:53
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berzerkmonkey posted:"Vacation? Sorry. The Minervan 15th needs 4000 Leman Russes immediately to fight insurgents in the Scarus Sector. You'll be pulling double shifts for the next three years."
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Aug 1, 2012 14:20
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Exterminatus.
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Aug 1, 2012 14:34
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Baron Bifford posted:What happens when the workers try to unionize?
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Aug 1, 2012 16:24
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Baron Bifford posted:What happens when the workers try to unionize? Seriouspost: Most of the time, anything other than slavish devotion is seen as heresy, so most Emperor-fearing workers (and to be honest, there's a lot of them) purge themselves and/or seek redemption for such thoughts ASAP. Should an actual movement begin, then it's usually up to the PDF and local enforcers to step in. It's in everyone's best interests to do so, lest the Arbites be forced to take action. In such cases, unless there are some truly extraordinary circumstances, the Judge in charge will usually begin the purge starting with the Governor. The Imperial Guard might also be called in. Baron Bifford posted:The Imperium is said to be a very oppressive regime, but the fluff says that the Imperium often exerts very little control over the internal politics of its worlds. As long as a planet worships the Emperor, shuns xenos, and pays its tithes, the Imperium lets it handle its affairs as it pleases. By this alone, there is no reason a vibrant democracy couldn't develop on one of its worlds. If all the Imperium is grimdark and that plenty of planets want to rebel, then there must be more to it. What does the Imperium do to planets to keeps them stagnant and oppressive? There are actually plenty of worlds that aren't 420 GRIMDARK ALL DAY ERRY DAY; you can have vibrant democracies and such, it's just that even on those worlds, knowledge is suppressed, and citizens are constantly kept in a siege mentality. The Ecclesiarchy and Mechanicus help with this, the former by constantly emphasizing the Imperium over the individual, the other controlling knowledge. There's also the other aspects of Imperial rule, such as the Administratum, which help keep planets down. Planet getting too uppity? Raise its tithes and/or reduce offworld trade; you'd best believe those requests get through the red tape. Also, Governors are necessary for Imperial administration, even if they're democratically elected- for nothing else than having someone to blame if everything goes to pot.
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Aug 1, 2012 16:26
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Baron Bifford posted:The Imperium is said to be a very oppressive regime, but the fluff says that the Imperium often exerts very little control over the internal politics of its worlds. As long as a planet worships the Emperor, shuns xenos, and pays its tithes, the Imperium lets it handle its affairs as it pleases. By this alone, there is no reason a vibrant democracy couldn't develop on one of its worlds. If all the Imperium is grimdark and that plenty of planets want to rebel, then there must be more to it. What does the Imperium do to planets to keeps them stagnant and oppressive? Because they're not as interesting to write about and not gothic grimdark enough. That opening blurb in every bit of fluff is basically a mission statement. Also, there are such things as unions in 40k. Stuff like the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Navigator Houses as well as various guilds are pretty common. They're just the giant, corrupt, dickheaded type of unions instead of small, worker-led organizations. Why? Because everything is giant and corrupt in 40k. That's kind of the point. Keep in mind here that 40k is space fantasy, not science fiction, and, at least before the Mat Ward crew got their hands on it, it was more accurately satirical space fantasy. Reason and logic do not really apply. Part of the joke is that there is nothing stopping the Imperium from being a lot nicer or at least less totally wasteful except for sheer bloody-mindedness. If you noticed this, then, congratulations, you've just gotten the joke. If it helps, most of the real world is also stagnant and oppressive for no good reason.
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Aug 1, 2012 16:32
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I just finished Know No Fear. What else has been done in the HH series that's worth reading since last year?
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Aug 1, 2012 16:36
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Cream_Filling posted:Keep in mind here that 40k is space fantasy, not science fiction, and, at least before the Mat Ward crew got their hands on it, it was more accurately satirical space fantasy. Reason and logic do not really apply. Part of the joke is that there is nothing stopping the Imperium from being a lot nicer or at least less totally wasteful except for sheer bloody-mindedness. If you noticed this, then, congratulations, you've just gotten the joke. If it helps, most of the real world is also stagnant and oppressive for no good reason. It stopped being that way since 3rd and you shouldn't continue trying to view it as such.
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Aug 1, 2012 16:50
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It used to sneak back in now and again, but everyone who wasn't raised in GW has left, and those who remain are all newbies who can't get past how "awesome" it is to have Necrons and Blood Angels buddy up to fight 'nids.
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Aug 1, 2012 17:24
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Nephilm posted:It stopped being that way since 3rd and you shouldn't continue trying to view it as such. Well, that's why I qualified it as "before the Mat Ward crew." Reason and logic still doesn't apply, though.
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Aug 1, 2012 22:04
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I'm halfway through the last Enforcer book (Blind) and while I enjoy the premise, Farrer's books drag on a lot. I mean, the beginning of Blind is just Shira wandering around the ship and talking to random people while new characters get introduced every other page. It would have been more tolerable if Shira had any personality at all. There are Khorne berzerkers with more complex emotions and motivations than her. I know Farrer wanted to write a "no nonsense by the book Arbites" character but what he ended up with was a Space Marine sans rising choler. Cat Planet fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Aug 1, 2012 |
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Aug 1, 2012 22:20
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Therion posted:I'm halfway through the last Enforcer book (Blind) and while I enjoy the premise, Farrer's books drag on a lot. I mean, the beginning of Blind is just Shira wandering around the ship and talking to random people while new characters get introduced every other page. So you're saying she has a wet leopard growl?
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Aug 2, 2012 02:19
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I think I read somewhere, tvtropes maybe, that orks evolve stronger and bigger if they face a strong enough threat. Khorne is powered by violence itself. Has Khorne Daemons ever squared off against Orks in an endless siege? I'm picturing Titan size Orks facing the Avatar of War that ends in a violent bro fist so epic the planet implodes. Also are there any stores (book or just short stories) from BL that follow the orks in depth? Got a kindle fire so if its ebooks I'm still good.
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Aug 2, 2012 09:09
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Fuzzy Pipe Wrench posted:I just finished Know No Fear. What else has been done in the HH series that's worth reading since last year? I guess you can look up the HH series Wikipedia page and see if you've read all the books. Forget about the "Collector's" edition books as those are all sold out and you a have to wait for them to eventually be released in paper back form. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus_Heresy The go get the audio dramas and listen to those as they are pretty good. http://www.blacklibrary.com/audio/audio-drama The Lighting Tower/Dark Knight, Raven's Flight, The Butcher's Nails and the Garro series are cool to listen too and help to fill in the pieces. In fact if you read all the paperbacks then you'll be in for a treat with Garro audio drama series as someone makes surprise return. Anyway's have pretty much read all the books (still working "The Primarchs" book) and listened to all the audio dramas and have been thoroughly entertained.
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Aug 2, 2012 09:11
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berzerkmonkey posted:Planetary governors are chosen by the Imperium. As is the case with many non-democracies, succession is determined by birth. As time goes on, the position is less of a stewardship and more of a birthright. The ruling class gets more and more detached, and identifies with the populous less and less. Life gets more and more oppressive. Hehe...there is a voiced audio drama of Eisenhorn short stories that has something to that effect going on in the story, except the guy turns himself in instead. The ending is typical of what you described however. http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/thorn-and-talon.html Sweaty Palms fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Aug 7, 2012 |
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Aug 2, 2012 09:21
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EyeRChris posted:I think I read somewhere, tvtropes maybe, that orks evolve stronger and bigger if they face a strong enough threat. Khorne is powered by violence itself. Has Khorne Daemons ever squared off against Orks in an endless siege? I'm picturing Titan size Orks facing the Avatar of War that ends in a violent bro fist so epic the planet implodes. There is a short story out there about Orks invading the Eye of Terror. They land on a Khornate planet and do battle with Demon Princes and their armies and get slaughtered. As punishment for their audacity, the Demons resurrect the Orks every day, and fight and kill them. The Orks regard it as Heaven. Somebody has posted a scan of it here before, it is like a page and a half long. One of the Horus Heresy books has a quick one line mention of Orks the size of titans. Helsreach doesn't follow the orks, but they are the primary antagonist, and both sides are portrayed as intelligent - none of the usual dumb armies and clever protagonists here, it is a simple matter of being outmatched.
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Aug 2, 2012 09:56
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EyeRChris posted:Also are there any stores (book or just short stories) from BL that follow the orks in depth? Got a kindle fire so if its ebooks I'm still good. That being said, if you can track down some of the old 'Ere we go! or Freebootaz Ork sourcebooks from Rogue Trader days, you'll find some short bitz of Orky goodness. Fried Chicken posted:One of the Horus Heresy books has a quick one line mention of Orks the size of titans.
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Aug 2, 2012 14:11
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Fried Chicken posted:The Orks regard it as Heaven.
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Aug 2, 2012 14:42
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Navigators only marry each other because a union between a navigator and a regular human destroys the navigator gene somehow. Some texts have described this as "recessiveness", but that isn't really correct because recessive genes do not get destroyed but simply lurk. Is there a proper scientific term to describe a trait or combination of traits that are permanently lost through cross-breeding?
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Aug 2, 2012 15:13
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Baron Bifford posted:Is there a proper scientific term to describe a trait or combination of traits that are permanently lost through cross-breeding? The term you're looking for might be negative heterosis or outbreeding depression, where the offspring are less fit than the parents due to the loss of advantageous traits. In this case, loss of the warp eye due to the introduction of a PLEBEIAN. Also, has there been any word of a new Ciaphas Cain?
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Aug 2, 2012 15:50
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Baron Bifford posted:Is there a proper scientific term to describe a trait or combination of traits that are permanently lost through cross-breeding? quote:Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species That being said, I'm not sure if traits are ever truly lost - people still are born with vestigial tails, webbed digits, etc. I think the traits are still embedded in the genetic code, it's just that they are so far down, they rarely surface.
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Aug 2, 2012 15:55
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berzerkmonkey posted:Evolution? Not kidding, evolution is defined as: Those people are more likely to be either mutants or else genetically normal people where something went wrong during the development process (between genes and actual body stuff). Or else it really is hereditary. Or it's a set of genes that makes the developmental process more prone to error. Or any number of other things. It's relatively easy to remove a single variant of a single gene from a gene pool. You just remove every single individual who carries the gene in the form you're interested in removing. Of course, most complex traits entail many, many genes, so it's much harder then. Genetics in the real world is very complicated since genes interact with each other in very complex ways, but at the same time the incidence of actual genes is pretty simple. It's usually just a straight probability distribution, assuming they're not linked in some way. Complex multi-genetic traits are quite susceptible to being disrupted since losing any of a handful of key genes for some different set of genes will change whether the trait itself is expressed or not, depending entirely on what each gene does in each of the different forms that might exit. This, again, has nothing really to do with 40k. Navigator houses are like that because that's how they were in Dune, and also because giant clans of horribly inbred mutants is analogous to the situation of various hereditary houses, guilds, and royal lines often found in other long-standing, corrupt, decadent imperial civilizations like Imperial China, Medici's Italy, or 19th century Europe. Which ties into the gothic far future fantasy thing. Stop applying real-world science to 40k. 40k is not science-fiction.
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Aug 2, 2012 16:38
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Fried Chicken posted:There is a short story out there about Orks invading the Eye of Terror. They land on a Khornate planet and do battle with Demon Princes and their armies and get slaughtered. As punishment for their audacity, the Demons resurrect the Orks every day, and fight and kill them. The Orks regard it as Heaven. Somebody has posted a scan of it here before, it is like a page and a half long. I have yet to hear a single thing about Orks that doesn't make them sound like the most fun thing in WH40k.
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Aug 2, 2012 18:17
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Trast posted:I have yet to hear a single thing about Orks that doesn't make them sound like the most fun thing in WH40k. When all you want to do is break and smash things gleefully and everyone else is a miserable gently caress that needs smashing, you're the happiest person in the room.
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Aug 2, 2012 18:19
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W40K gets grimdark to such an extreme that it sometimes cannot be taken seriously, and you thus need to create a race that thoroughly revels in the slaughter and is funny doing it.
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Aug 2, 2012 19:38
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Baron Bifford posted:W40K gets grimdark to such an extreme that it sometimes cannot be taken seriously, and you thus need to create a race that thoroughly revels in the slaughter and is funny doing it. When I first was described what orks were as I started to get into the lore I couldn't buy into a bunch of soccer hooligan space "orcs." Then I saw them an action and it's a perfect counter point to all the grim dark.
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Aug 2, 2012 21:10
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^^^^ In a certain way, the fact that Orks are just football hooligans is a grimdark reflection on how 80's England might have been going down the drain. The London riots make them slightly less funny. EyeRChris posted:I think I read somewhere, tvtropes maybe, that orks evolve stronger and bigger if they face a strong enough threat. Khorne is powered by violence itself. Has Khorne Daemons ever squared off against Orks in an endless siege? I'm picturing Titan size Orks facing the Avatar of War that ends in a violent bro fist so epic the planet implodes. ETA: UGH, fukkan teach me to not read the whole thread.... Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Aug 3, 2012 |
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Aug 3, 2012 01:19
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berzerkmonkey posted:Whaaaaa? What book was this in? I've seen stuff about Ork Gargants being the size of Titans, but not actual Orks... Ghazghkull is about the biggest, baddest Ork out there and he tops out at around 12 feet or so in his armor. It was off-handedly mentioned as a possibility off in some unknown area of space during the HH if I recall correctly. Something about this Ork empire that'd been at war so long that xenologists surmised the head Orks would be the size of battle titans. Don't think they ever showed Orks that big but they did have one choke out the Emperor.
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Aug 3, 2012 01:21
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handbanana125 posted:It was off-handedly mentioned as a possibility off in some unknown area of space during the HH if I recall correctly. Something about this Ork empire that'd been at war so long that xenologists surmised the head Orks would be the size of battle titans. Don't think they ever showed Orks that big but they did have one choke out the Emperor. I remember a mention of giant orks in Brothers of the Snake, one of the stories concerns a battle group trying to hold back an Ork force. quote:Priad knew just by looking that some of those weapons would have been a true test for even him to lift, but in the ghastly, oversized fists of the swineguard they seemed like toys Some mild googling shows that, at a conservative estimate, Space Marines are 8 feet tall in armour, maybe as much as 10 feet. The models show a heavy bolter, when stood on end, is about 2 thirds as tall as an armoured marine. The implication is that the ones in the quote are considerably larger, between 7 and 9 feet long, so the idea that the Orks are holding them like hand guns paints a pretty impressive picture. 67 and still making love fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Aug 3, 2012 |
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Aug 3, 2012 02:03
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Arquinsiel posted:
So they pretty much go to Valhalla?
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Aug 3, 2012 02:49
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Gormless Gormster posted:So they pretty much go to Valhalla? WAAAAAAAAH-halla, to be specific.
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Aug 3, 2012 03:49
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I was excited for the new Sanguinius-centric book until I noticed James Swallows was the assigned author. Is he contracted to be the only Blood Angels writer for Black Library or is he the only guy who is willing to write their stuff? Also, was Priests of Mars any good? I don't recall there being much of a splash about it.
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Aug 3, 2012 03:52
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handbanana125 posted:Also, was Priests of Mars any good? I don't recall there being much of a splash about it. In my opinion, no. It is a book with literally no ending at all. Nothing happens or is resolved. I feel like someone at the printers hosed up and only send me 2/3 of a book.
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Aug 3, 2012 03:57
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Gormless Gormster posted:So they pretty much go to Valhalla?
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Aug 3, 2012 04:38
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Cream_Filling posted:In my opinion, no. It is a book with literally no ending at all. Nothing happens or is resolved. I feel like someone at the printers hosed up and only send me 2/3 of a book. Yeah, I wonder if it's supposed to be a duology or trilogy. So many threads were left dangling, especially the forged Rogue Trader writ.
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Aug 3, 2012 05:01
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Shroud posted:Yeah, I wonder if it's supposed to be a duology or trilogy. So many threads were left dangling, especially the forged Rogue Trader writ. I really flipped my poo poo at the end of that book. I couldn't agree more about how it felt like the ebook was incomplete and they left out a good third of the ending.
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Aug 3, 2012 05:18
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Gormless Gormster posted:So they pretty much go to Valhalla? well, that particular group, yes. Other orks no
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Aug 3, 2012 06:22
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Games Workshop is doing the Horus Heresy now, but are there plans in the future to do the collapse of the Imperium in the 42nd millenium?
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Aug 3, 2012 07:46
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